  Beantown Member Username: Beantown Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2006 |
Design for city garage changes July 13, 2007 BY JOHN GALLAGHER FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER The planned city-owned parking garage next to the Book-Cadillac Hotel will rise 10 stories instead of eight, in a change approved Thursday by Detroit's Downtown Development Authority. The change resulted from fire officials' objections to initial plans to cantilever part of the structure into the public right-of-way. Eliminating that portion will require a taller and narrower structure and help push the cost of the garage from $17.6 million to a little more than $21 million. It also means the Griswold condominium development planned for the top of the garage will be two stories higher, affording better views. Ground-breaking on the garage is expected to take place soon. Both the garage and the adjacent Book-Cadillac Hotel renovations are expected to be finished by the fall of 2008. Contact JOHN GALLAGHER at 313-222-5173 or gallagher@freepress.com. from http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2007707130342 ****************************** ******************* Kraemer Design Group (or anyone else) - please post updated renderings if available. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4820 Registered: 08-2004 |
OK, time to trudge that KDG building photo out again....  OK we can see the cantilevering because part of the first 10 stories stick out slightly. So they are going to make the front of the building flush with the front of the condos (first floor of condo's will not have larger balconies due to the cantelevering). And there are going to be 10 stories of parking instead of 8 stories (it appears that the parking starts on the 3rd floor, and not the 2nd floor... which may be commercial space). So this whole building will now be 18 stories tall instead of 16 stories. Sounds like a good tradeoff for the all but the first level of condo owners, since their balconies will likely be the same size as the upper condos. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 361 Registered: 05-2006 |
Is there a new rendering, or could someone please Photoshop this one? I would like to see the new design because I am inclined to think that making the building's surfaces flush will take away visual interest, which will result in a boring design. I hope I ‘m wrong. Additionally, could the new design cause exhaust fumes from the garage to affect the air quality on the condo balconies? | ||
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw Post Number: 382 Registered: 07-2005 |
Everyone involved has done a really nice job of doing what they do, but I still can't get over the garage part. But I like that it will be taller. There's going to be a nice massive street wall in that area. | ||
Kraemerdesigngroup Member Username: Kraemerdesigngroup Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2005 |
All - the rendering above (the same one that has been around for months) is still the current design. There are 10 floors of parking and 5 floors of housing (6 floors if you count the upper floor of the penthouses in the mansard roof). The face of the condos is still set back from the garage face - no changes there. | ||
Beantown Member Username: Beantown Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2006 |
KDG - thanks for the reply. If the current rendering (from months back) is still the latest design, what changes were approved by the DDA yesterday? Are they just a few months behind you and getting caught up to your latest design (with yesterday's approval a mere formality)? If so, it sounds like most of us probably never saw the design that was cantilevered over the public right-of-way. Lastly, how do you guys account for the retail floor(s). Is it one floor in addition to 10 stories of parking? Or is that one floor included in your 10? Is it more than one floor? Thanks again for your response - it's always nice to hear from you on this site! (Message edited by beantown on July 13, 2007) | ||
Kraemerdesigngroup Member Username: Kraemerdesigngroup Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2005 |
Beantown - you are correct, there was never a rendering showing a cantilevered garage with housing. The DDA approval is just one of the multiple approvals needed for a complex project. There are not "behind" just a part of the path. The first floor is 1/3 ramp and the rest retail. Then 9 floors of parking. Then the residential. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5788 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kraemerdesign, How is the lobby integrated into this? Will it be on the ground floor or the 11th floor, or will you have a simple elevator lobby on the first floor, and a fully lobby on the 11th floor? | ||
Kraemerdesigngroup Member Username: Kraemerdesigngroup Post Number: 70 Registered: 10-2005 |
Lmichigan - the main lobby will be located on the first floor off of Griswold. See the renderings below:   | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1093 Registered: 10-2003 |
It must be a lot of pressure, designing a building in such a prominent location, knowing how many Detroiters have a bit of hope riding on projects like these. It looks fantastic in the renderings! | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2334 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is such an exciting development in that part of town!! A few years ago it was a mess (still is a bit) but these are outstanding plans for that side of the CBD! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5790 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'd hardly call it outstanding, but it's making the best of what little the city can do in the downtown area without mass transit (i.e. every project must come with a garage to be viable). It parking like this must be built, it is great that developers are utilizing the air rights, at least. At the end of the day, it's still a parking garage that just so happens to have residential as an afterthought. | ||
Chow Member Username: Chow Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2003 |
that was right on, lmich. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 734 Registered: 01-2006 |
I would generally agree with your assesment LMich, except for one thing...the BC deal would not have worked without a ramp somewhere in the deal. No hotel/condo project of that size (400+ rooms, 60+ condos)would be possible without a ramp being included. That goes for pretty much any city that I can think of. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5791 Registered: 10-2003 |
I just said that. For any large-scale project to be viable in the city, it has to have damn-near adjacent parking or it's a no go. My only point is that I'd hardly use the adjective of "outstanding" to describe a rather unfortunate situation (i.e. lack of effective rapid transit to reduce the number of parking spots needed to make large scale projects viable). | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 2116 Registered: 11-2004 |
Residential as an afterthought? Are you high? And tying the lack of mass transit to an evaluation of the merits of any project shows an incredible lack of perspective. It's fine to want better mass transit, it would be a great thing. But don't discredit a project that actually shows a great amount of creative thinking on the part of the Roxbury Group and the DEGC because of it. Besides, guests of the Book Cadillac aren't really the public transportation type anyway. So maybe you can begrudgingly acknowledge these actually are outstanding projects despite the fact they require parking spaces for all the people they'll have visiting and living downtown. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4828 Registered: 08-2004 |
I have to agree 100%, this project is awesome, regardless if there's a parking structure involved. It will really improve the streetwall and density of the area. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5794 Registered: 10-2003 |
The streetwall wouldn't have needed much improvement if the city hadn't have knocked down the People's Outfitting Building. How ironic. This isn't an improvement for that area in anything but the short term. It's a replacement. No, the residential was and is afterthought, and looks the part. This was originally to be nothing more than a parking garage. This is a parking garage that makes great use of its airspace, but primarily (10 stories to 5/6 stories) a parking garage, nonetheless. I guess I can't have a measured opinion. I guess I either have to love it fully, or hate the whole concept, huh? Unfortunately for you all I don't take either extreme position. It is what it is, a parking garage that makes great use of its air rights. It's hardly outstanding, and it's hardly an abomination. No, are you high? Grow up. (Message edited by lmichigan on July 14, 2007) | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 346 Registered: 01-2004 |
Wasn't Kinsel's Drugs the other building on that land, which was torn down around 2000? I believe that was the first drug store to stay open 24hrs when legend has it the owner forgot the keys. Those were two nice buildings and regardless if the Griswold is a nice building as well, those are missed by some. | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 309 Registered: 11-2005 |
Yea, there used to be a taco bell in that building. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4831 Registered: 08-2004 |
The Peoples Outfitting Company only took up a portion (35-40%?) of that blocks "streetwall". So this new building will take up 100% thus improving the streetwall effect quite a bit. | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 347 Registered: 01-2004 |
well, I assume their argument was that People's + Kinsels made a solid streetwall. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4832 Registered: 08-2004 |
Yes, but Kinsels was only about 3 stories tall... more like a "street hedge"...  And besides Kinsels wasn't torn down with this new complex in mind. It was torn down a few years ago... a fact that I lamented since it was one of the few Victorian buildings left in that part of downtown. (Message edited by Gistok on July 14, 2007) | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 348 Registered: 01-2004 |
Yea, I know; I remember when it came down and I was equally as upset as it reminded me of many of the buildings we have here in England....What exactly was the reason it came down? | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 366 Registered: 05-2006 |
Parking! | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4411 Registered: 10-2003 |
That is a good question...I remember the BK and Taco Bell that used to be in there. Why DID they take Kinsel's down? | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 310 Registered: 11-2005 |
And why didn't Taco Bell and BK relocate to another location downtown? | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 349 Registered: 01-2004 |
Does anyone have a picture of Kinsels? Or better yet that block with both buildings on it? | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4412 Registered: 10-2003 |
Right here TK https://www.detroityes.com/webisode s/2000/18downtown/08kinsel.htm | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 350 Registered: 01-2004 |
Thanks for the link...however, I always thought those were the only 2 buildings on that block, but it looks like there is a space where another was. IS that right? |
