 
Track75
Member
Username: Track75
Post Number: 2590
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:26 am: |    |
quote:Seriously, the defense must have thought that the jury was OK going in because they still had six unused peremptory challenges. It's very difficult getting qualified blacks to sit on juries almost everywhere, especially in areas such as Detroit. Maybe the defense wanted it that way. Putting on my tin-foil hat for a minute, if Kilpatrick's legal team was pretty sure the officers would win then a white suburban jury would allow them to blame the loss on racial prejudice rather than on the merits of the case. Would enough Detroiters buy it? Dunno... |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3227
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:30 am: | |
$6.5 M =
216 Police Scout Cars
21 Fire Trucks
260 New police officers
222 new fire fighters
26 new d-dot busses
11,818 DPD Glock Pistols
866 SCBA gear units for FF
677 fire hoses for FF units |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 904
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:35 am: | |
Yes - but only if those things were going to be considered budget priorities. Did you know that the Mayor spent more than $1 million purchasing and retrofitting his motorcade of Expeditions when he first came into office? He wanted to make a statement about his persona and "brand" - and at taxpayer expense, too.
he didn't really consider how his extraordinary expense decisions would affect the city budget then. |
Diehard
Member
Username: Diehard
Post Number: 125
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:50 am: | |
Track75
I don't think you need a tinfoil hat to buy that theory. It's being brought up elsewhere too. Sadly, it'll probably work on Detroit voters as well as that "lynching" ad did in '05. Even more likely is that the voters will have completely forgotten this by '09. |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 399
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 12:11 pm: | |
Meanwhile the big dummies will be coughing up the settlement $ plus interest if they appeal. |
Wally
Member
Username: Wally
Post Number: 303
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 12:16 pm: | |
quote:$6.5 M =
216 Police Scout Cars
21 Fire Trucks
260 New police officers
222 new fire fighters
26 new d-dot busses
11,818 DPD Glock Pistols
866 SCBA gear units for FF
677 fire hoses for FF units
At first, I thought you meant to say all of this added to $6.5M, until I did a calculation and realized there should have been an "or" in between each item listed.
Too bad Kwame's misbehavior will squander that much more taxpayer money. Hell, I'm "blown away!" |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 365
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 12:20 pm: | |
6.5 Million buys 260 police officers? That sounds like a good deal to me.
It makes me think that if the city re-prioritized toward core services, it wouldn't take that much of a shift to make a huge difference in service and safety. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3228
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 1:13 pm: | |
6.5 M =
500 DPW garbage trucks
or
4 15-MW gas turbine generators for PLD
or
increased the Detroit Homeland Security office budget by a factor of 10
or
162 health inspectors
or
173 recreation department workers |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 10149
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 1:36 pm: | |
Well, we got the new fire trucks and squad cars...so I'll vote for a few more cops, replacing the recreation workers, and add some buses.
Oh wait...this is what we WON'T be able to afford in our future, with or without the Big Diamond...less the interest, even.
That is SOME sorta bill for that party, huh?! |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5313
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 1:42 pm: | |
... aren't there any more city owned suburban golf courses to sell? |
Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 234
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 1:51 pm: | |
Zulu is back! :-) |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 367
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 2:09 pm: | |
I'm trying to not acknowledge one of my favorite posters' return, as then it may jinx it and then they will vanish again... I was gone for awhile myself, so I can relate. |
Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 236
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 2:18 pm: | |
DV- who ? |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1374
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 2:18 pm: | |
What, is Trainman back? |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3230
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:07 pm: | |
(Bowing low in humble gratitude)
6.5M =
1,911 street light bulbs
or
216,666 tons of bulk road salt for the winter
or
147 animal control officers
or
168 Detroit Public School teachers (starting)
or
543,933 ft of crime scene tape (that's 103 miles)
or
1,179,673 potholes patched with asphalt (based on 2000 prices) |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3231
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:11 pm: | |
And in honor of Mr. Nelthorpe...
8666 police vests |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 10157
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:31 pm: | |
Really good to have you back, Zulu.
Are those the newer vests that can stop faster projectiles? I just read an article that was describing the difference...of course, they were attacking W and the gang for not sending the better ones to our troops overseas. |
Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 238
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 4:13 pm: | |
zulu - you forgot
2166 Steve Harvey zoot suits for hiz'honor |
Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 239
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 4:15 pm: | |
So what happens next?
will the citizens rise up?
will city council force Kwame to pay himself?
will any new "taxes" pop up to pay this verdict?
will the citizens start a recall?
will the citizens vote him back in? |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 402
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 4:37 pm: | |
They'll vote him back in because they are gluttons for misery. |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 896
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 4:50 pm: | |
Are there any employment lawyers on here? Please chime in on this issue. One thing I don't understand is how Officer Nelthrope satisfied the evidence requirements for a Whistleblower's claim. Because he quit his job with the Police Department and was not fired, it's my understanding that he had to prove that he was "constructively discharged." I understand that to mean that his workplace conditions became so intolerable that no reasonable person could have continued in his position. It's been reported that Mr. Nelthrope left the police department within days of the disclosure of his name as the officer who reported the misconduct allegations (first he took sick leave, then he took a disability leave of absence, then he resigned) because he feared for his life after he received one phone call from Officer Martin, one of the bad EPU guys. One of the dailies reported that Mr. Nelthrope testified that Martin didn't acutally threaten bodily harm, but that he found the tone of the conversation threatening. Obviously I didn't hear all the evidence, but was anything else about his "constructive discharge" proved? If not, how can such a situation arise to one of these constructive discharges? Assuming there was some kind of threat, does one threat create intolerable conditions? And did some kind of official city action cause the threat in a legal sense?
Are these issues relevant to Mr. Nelthrope's case?
I don't know. I don't believe for a minute believe that the Mayor, his staff and the EPU have clean hands in this case. But even if the Mayor's and Ms. Beatty's testimony was full of lies and Mr. Nelthrope's was 100% truth, that doesn't mean he wins his case. I really question whether someone who quits their position under the circumstances as played out in this case can claim they were constructively discharged as the law seems to intend that concept. It seems to me that if someone is not fired or demoted from their job as a result of their "whistleblower" activity, in order to prevail in a lawsuit they should have a much higher burden than simply proving that they became afraid of harm after one telephone conversation. A very slippery slope here.
(Message edited by swingline on September 13, 2007) |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 372
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 5:16 pm: | |
Juror speaks out... interesting comments.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070912/NEW S01/70912061
Also interesting that the first vote was 11-0 with Brown. Obviously, the defense didn't do a great job and made no time with the jury. Remind me not to hire those lawyers. |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 905
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 5:21 pm: | |
Re: Nelthorpe's "constructive discharge:" what would be unspoken in the trial is what happened to the dancer who was caught in the party at the Mansion that Nelthorpe was investigating. Most police officers and responsible people in the media believe that she was the Strawberry who was later killed in a drive-by shooting, as was another girl who moved away and was killed. It is thought that one of the Mayor's boys, most probably Martin arranged those deaths. So Nelthorpe - after only one call from martin - became afraid for his life. Harris moved his family out of town.
Seems like they could qualify for constructive discharges. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 68
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 6:31 pm: | |
SouthWestmap,
I don't believe Nelthorpe was investigating anything. He was a driver, plain and simple. As a driver he saw first hand the wackiness that was going on with the Mayor and the Security Team. When Strawberry ended up dead, Nelthorpe went to Brown. Brown, Deputy Chief and head of Internial Affairs, then used the info from Nelthorpe to begin the his investigation.
Brown went public with some of the information about overtime padding, drunk driving, etc.
Then the brown stuff hit the fan.
I believe that is how Brown got involved. Nelthorpe contacted Brown. Brown stepped forward and they both were hounded out of their jobs. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 69
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 6:42 pm: | |
If Gil Hill can go from cop to City Council, I think Deputy Chief Brown would make a great canidate for Mayor.
Chief Brown, stood up and risked his reputation, his career, his life for the truth.
Wouldn't that be a refreshing change in Detroit politics? |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 640
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 6:44 pm: | |
Gnome: Was the death of Strawberry made public? I don't remember seeing it on TV. Or even anything about the other stripper being killed? |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 70
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 6:59 pm: | |
Bratt: I don't think Brown went public with the Strawberry news, but I believe it was her tragic death that spooked Nelthourpe.
Now, I'm a bit foggy on the full timeline, and you may have a better grasp of the details than I; but I was simply trying to clarify to S.westmap how Brown got involved in the first place.
Seems to me Det. Brown must be quite a guy. It takes a real brave man to do what he did, and in seeing him speak in public and on the news, I am impressed with his character.
Detroit needs a person with character, and until you run for Mayor, my prayer is with Det. Brown. |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 642
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 7:45 pm: | |
Thanks Gnome...I was just wondering if it ever came out. I knew when it happened, but I thought it was kept on the down low. I wonder where her family is...probably scared for their lives. So sad....
Yes, Brown was very brave considering all of the people involved and knowing about it keeping it all hush, hush. I wonder how they sleep at night. Well, I would love to be a fly on the wall when it comes time for them ALL to meet their Maker.
But then again, Big Pimpin' probably has a Suite reserved in hell for him...with his very own Escalade...and all the whores he wants. I bet his Escalade has 24's with massive spinners. But his big ass better lose some weight before he gets there...or he'll be sweatin' like a big old pig. Can we say YUCK? (Sorry just had a visual). |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 643
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 7:47 pm: | |
And by the way...I just can't imagine why all those women want him? To say that you're fuckin' the mayor? What are they getting out of it?
I'll be damn if I let his big ass get on top of me...sweatin....breathing all hard...sorry..gotta go throw up! |
Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan
Post Number: 807
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 8:24 pm: | |
Kwame's defense lawyers dismissed THREE African-American jurors during jury selection:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070912/NEW S01/70912061
So much for the race card defense, but I guess that the majority of Detroit's citizens will just accept Kwame's word that he was railroaded by a white suburban jury just for being a proud successful black man from the city of Detroit. He'll probably coast to re-election two years from now. |
Ffdfd
Member
Username: Ffdfd
Post Number: 181
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 9:24 pm: | |
Tomorrow I'm calling in my pick for the Michigan-Notre Dame game. Didn't someone here write this case was lining up as a "slam dunk" for the Kwame? I'd like to get that person's prediction for the game before I place my call. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2375
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 9:25 pm: | |
I'm hearing today a lot about racial injustice regarding this case. Where is race a factor here? Regardless of the make-up of the jury, both parties were black. How could a jury favor one party over the other because of race? That defense is the most asinine crap I have ever heard. Simply put, the jury chose to side with the party that was wronged. If the cops were white, then maybe the mayor could cry foul.
(Message edited by royce on September 12, 2007) |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 374
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 9:48 pm: | |
Detective Brown for Mayor? Sounds intriguing. I think we may have a winner theory here. I could see the Mildred Gaddis crowd getting behind him - I don't know if he'd win, but I think we've just tagged our next contender.
If you see him take some public volunteer position or visible position in the next year, methinks he'll be setting up for running. He was at a lot of Freman Hendrix events. I have no clue if has political cloth or charisma. If he runs, or goes on a dual ticket, then that might be the only way this bites Kwame with a bunch of angry Detroiters getting motivated. I could write ads for days on the statistics Zulu provided earlier.
He'd almost be a sure bet if some council seat opened up, perchance, if has any political bones in his body. I'd consider cutting him a check for council - mayor, not sure. I don't know if anyone can defeat Kwame, and I've accepted he's going to be mayor for awhile, but it's early. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:19 pm: | |
I quite agree with Warriorfan's conjecture regarding the next election. Detroit got the Hip-Hop Mayor who so many of its residents wanted, and will probably march right out and vote for him again. Even as I write this post, the bloated low-life is probably contemplating the thought that his "street cred" hasn't been damaged at all, and that it may, in fact, have improved.
And "credit" it is!! After all, we're paying to cover his sorry ass.
That's a lot of beach blankets to sew together, but we'll do it. That's our'all's boy!! |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2099
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 9:36 am: | |
Scott said he initially felt bad for Detroiters because their taxes will be used to pay the $6.5-million award.
But he said Detroiters also must also accept blame for twice voting Kilpatrick into office.
"That's their own doggone fault," he said. "They're going to have to pay for his actions."
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070913/COL 33/709130361&theme=KILPATRICK0 82007&imw=Y |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6512
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:22 am: | |
Now THE PARTY'S OVER for King Kwame! With a price. We Detroiters have to pay out of our pockets for Brown's early retirement. Plus other legal fees.
In a matter of fact, King Kwame should pay out of his own pockets, not the Detroit taxpayers! |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 172
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 11:20 am: | |
"I come from a long history of people who withstood much more degradation, much more cruelty, much more - just everything - than I'm withstanding right now. My people were hung from trees. If they can go through that, then I can definitely stand up and wake up in the morning, kiss my babies and go to work." "I think that this is a reality check -0 not just on Kwame Kilpatrick because, you know, I'm God's guy, I'm going to be all right - I think this is for ALL BLACK MEN right now in the City of Detroit." Kwame Kilpatrick.
With statements like those above, the racial divide in the City will never change. Kwame needs to suck it up and accept the decision against him like a man and quit whining. He has had it better than most but he got caught. Most criminals find God after getting caught. Having to explain things to his children wouldn't have been necessary had he had better judgement and not put himself in those situations. |
Diehard
Member
Username: Diehard
Post Number: 127
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 2:53 pm: | |
^^Holy crap, BuyAmerican, are those statements from King Kwame recent? Pleeeease tell me they're not in response to this case? |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3934
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:08 pm: | |
There were three other blacks on the jury before KK's "crack" legal team used their peremptory challenges and have them rejected.
Did KK purposefully want blacks off the jury in order to pull the race card yet time and again and time again? It seems to have been part of his game plan all along. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5326
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:11 pm: | |
I guess Brown and Nelthorpe's "people" were NOT hung from trees, they were just hung out to dry...  |
Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk
Post Number: 845
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:16 pm: | |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070913/NEW S01/709130351
On LY's point, I'd bet a lot of money that KK either knew or was told he had a very slim chance of winning this case. Then stack the jury with whitey, play the race card, then hope that the residents circle the wagons.
His comments are really pathetic, but what's far more pathetic is that there is a very large audience in Detroit who will buy into them. |
Ffdfd
Member
Username: Ffdfd
Post Number: 183
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:17 pm: | |
LY, I thought it was three Detroiters, one of whom was black.
quote:Jurors learned that lawyers for the city and Kilpatrick had voluntarily dismissed one potential juror who was black and two who were Detroiters, before they were seated.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070913/M ETRO/709130432&theme=Metro-Det roit-mayor |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 72
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:34 pm: | |
Rjk,
that theroy has been proposed before. August 28th I think. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3936
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:40 pm: | |
quote:LY, I thought it was three Detroiters, one of whom was black. Aren't we being a bit revisionistic here, too?
That juror who had been interviewed on WJR for well over one-half hour the past two days is a retired, 63-year-old auto-plant worker. Are you suggesting that he doesn't know what blacks are?
He said that KK's attorneys rejected three other BLACKS from being seated on the jury by using three of their limited number of peremptory challenges (i.e., they rejected those blacks without having to give any cause for doing it). |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 75
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 9:58 am: | |
Below is a posting by Represntative Bert Johnson's office.
This opinion was posted in the Detroit Free Press forum under Steve Henderson's colum on Kwame.
I understand that the Freep comment board is a bit wild and filled with trolls, but the comment below is uniquely disturbing.
-----
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: BULLSH*T
------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
FIRST AND FOREMOST, if you are not a resident of Detroit, you should keep your negative comments to yourself. This verdict shows that no matter what, you can’t receive a fair trial in America. This also shows the breakdown in our judicial system and proves that we need to find a new way. For two individuals to receive a $6.5 million settlement based upon NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE whatsoever proves that judicial reform is long overdue. Neither of these gentlemen would have ever made this amount of money in their useful working lives. And to top it off, the only people losing here are the taxpayers of Detroit who will be footing the bill for these two gentlemen to sit back on their ASS for the rest of their lives. The Mayor did not receive a fair trial, despite what many of you have posted. The jurors obviously could not leave their own feelings and emotions about Mayor Kilpatrick outside the courthouse, and this was shown by the juror who appeared on television and proved that he had no amount of impartiality throughout the trial. As a resident of Detroit, I feel cheated, not by the Mayor or his administration, but by the judicial system that allowed this injustice to play out in the media. Non-Detroit residents who will not be impacted by this decision in any way need to keep their mouths SHUT! Sit back and enjoy your high horse for a while. Adding insult to injury is never a good idea, especially while we face the possibility of the most disgraceful mismanagement of Government in Michigan History!
_________________
M. Taylor II
Legislative Director
Office of State Rep. Bert Johnson
Michigan House of Representatives |
Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 242
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 10:08 pm: | |
that post by Taylor in the Freep caused me to loose it...
DO NOT RE-ELECT Bert people! and this guy needs to be fired. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 10201
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 10:28 pm: | |
I'd like a follow up from the Freep on how Rep. Johnson considers his Legislative Director's commentary! That IS some heady shit.
{In the #5 and #6 definition of the word.} |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 380
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 10:32 pm: | |
I vote for definition #4 in your list. |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 406
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 10:43 am: | |
Citizens may start to refer to their mayor in Redd Foxx terminology by calling him a "Big Dummy". |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2377
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 10:42 am: | |
A lot of people think that people don't like the mayor because he's black. I disagree. I think a lot of people don't like the mayor because he has this arrogance about him that says, "I'm Kwame Kilpatrick. How dare they do this to me?"
The juror who was interviewed expressed a disdain for the mayor's arrogance, not a disdain because he is black. The mayor's supporters need to understand this so that they won't cry foul when ever something doesn't go in the mayor's favor. Again, how can the juror's verdict be racial when two other African American men are going to benefit from it? |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 10230
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 10:53 am: | |
I'm STILL saying we need to draft these two fine gentlemen into city service, especially if the citizens are going to be paying them already.
Heck, the Kilpatrick administration is doing their jobs campaigning already.
Who do we want as Mayor, and who as Chief of Police?
I'd think Nelthrope would be the Chief, and give that Dolunt fellow head of Internal Affairs.
Brown for mayor! He can work for free! |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 408
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 1:09 pm: | |
Those guys aren't stupid. Take the money and run. |
