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Archive through September 01, 2007Digitalvision30 09-01-07  8:25 pm
Archive through September 02, 2007Kaptansolo30 09-02-07  7:24 pm
Archive through September 04, 2007Vetalalumni30 09-04-07  1:55 am
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Rosedaleken
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Username: Rosedaleken

Post Number: 308
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is an outstanding thread. I'll have to visit the site more often after all.

Kaptansolo, I agree with a great deal of what you say, and have had many similar experiences. White and black people asking me four or five times if I'm really from the City of Detroit based on my personality or speech, even though I've lived in the city from 0 to 18. It's almost as though if one doesn't completely conform to one stereotype or another society has no place for you.

Shared school experiences, and similar income levels give me more in common with friends I met in college. While mostly black, my friends are now about 60/40 compared to 90/10 before. The fact that I should apologize to anyone for tastes in music, books, women, or whatever is ridiculous. Perhaps it'd be easier if I grew up in the suburbs, but I doubt it.

Another thing you said that struck me kap was the dating situation. I recently started dating women of all races, not just black. I've found that I've run into women of other races who are expecting a thug, and black women who were expecting a better pedigree. Oops.

By the way, my bus stop was right near that Elias donut shop, it's still there last time I was in Michigan.

Blksoul_x, the drug dealer is doing greater damage hands down. Which person should be emulated? The one who profits from and peddles poison to his own community? Or the one who busts his ass, gets an education and improves his condition? I'm so sick and tired of people claiming to know every single thing someone does for his community. Does this person tutor? Mentor? Boys and Girls clubs? 100 Black men? etc, etc, etc. While staying would be preferred, people will help out in their own way, and even if Mr. IBM doesn't do a damn thing he is at least not perpetuating an image of success tied to a mandatory jail sentence when the shit hits the fan.

(Message edited by rosedaleken on September 06, 2007)
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 2273
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kaptansolo - The decline of the domestic auto industry and the decline of Detroit do not exactly correspond as directly as you might think. There have been ups and downs in the auto industry for decades but as recently as the 1990's it was doing OK and unemployment in Michigan was quite low, in fact lower than the national average at times.

The plight of the black community, although certainly affected by a loss of jobs has also seen other problems take hold. There are also many areas in the country where the economy is much stronger and we still see problems in the inner cities. We cannot ignore the effect of the 67 riots and 5 terms of Coleman Young either.

You have to be able to take the opportunity when it knocks on your door. With a functional illiteracy rate in the city of almost 60%, it makes it pretty hard to do that.

I never said that blacks lack the genetic capability to love their kids. But with 70% of black kids being born out of wedlock it takes a challenging situation and makes it even worse.

I fail to see how racism or any external factors are causing this phenomenon other than the financial incentive provided by government programs that are literally paying mothers for kids with absent fathers.

Certainly some bad choices are being made here, and I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but there does seem to be some cultural issues that need to be addressed. Which I guess must come from within because it seems that white folks are not allowed to comment on the plight of blacks without being attacked even though many of us have faced the same challenges.

It is a one way conversation these days, whites are told about all of our supposed sins and those of our supposed ancestors daily but if we dare to disagree or offer our perspective then all hell breaks loose. Of course at the same time we are told we must financially support all of the social programs that have failed miserably.

So, at this point I will refrain from offering my unwelcome commentary. Feel free to continue blaming the lack of low-skilled jobs for the plight of the inner city.

Sorry if my frank response offends, but even if you think I am full of shit I think anything but an honest response is insulting. Pandering to minorities and the poor and telling them that their problems are someone else's fault is a liberal game I don't play.
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Blksoul_x
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Username: Blksoul_x

Post Number: 58
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'Michigan' stated.......

quote:

BLK_X you ask who is doing more damage, Mr IBM or a crack dealer? Neither. You are, by perpetuating a mode of behaviour and philosophy that leads to economic stagnation, desperation, and crime. Instead of attacking Mr. IBM, because you are jealous or threatened that his success will expose your lack thereof, why don't you get your act together and start letting the "Real Brothas" know that as long as they act like idiots, they will live like idiots; and so will their offspring. "Pay for the cable", what an assinine idea. How about, "pay for college".



In your world__ all identities that fall outside of the 'whitewashed' mainstream are suspect to the preservation of white supremacy!

They call the above response 'white pride' or imperialist arrogance, or something of sort, right?__presumptously articulating the WOWS of the very people they attempted to destroy!__go figure!

So then, in your so-called 'Black perspective'...the IBM Fake brotha' is simply a 'GOOD AMERICAN' who has 'bootstrapped' his way through life__and through it all, he showed NO SIGNS OF REAL BLACKNESS, unless of course it was in a jocular manner faking black hipsterism!__then too, as a Black man, to be labelled an 'amerikkkan', you must not have any solidarity to your race__ a true 'amerikkkan' has no race__it's all about individualism, as long as you play by the rules, you will never be criticized...So then Black individualism or call it what it is 'Selling Out', contains no threat to white dominance...In other words, he's on your side!

...Where as the Black crack dealer, who's social ills are more-or-less written about, viewed about, and criticized about and who the community feels and resides more closely to, is in many ways socially connected to a broader and more outspoken part of Black culture, ie;the Black Church, the Youth, and the Elder members of the community...So then the threat of rebellion and revolution stands at the center within these realistic circles of daily Black life...perhaps why the dominate society sees this as a problem!__go figure!


blksoul-atcha!
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None
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Username: None

Post Number: 37
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Blksoul_x

Define; REAL BLACKNESS

What are it's contributions to society as a whole?
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Philbert
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Username: Philbert

Post Number: 276
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey hey Blksoul_x if you are Rasputin, please tell us your opinion of gay people again, lol.

Sitting back eating popcorn waiting for another cruel response about gays. HAHA! Hypocrisy.
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 218
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perfectgentleman
I will rephrase...

First-I was not suggesting that whites are saying we are genetically inferior and cannot love...I was using that as a metaphor to say it seems like people are just looking at me like I am crazy for saying the that young man or that young woman who did not go to college should work in the plant. Well what was their view when whites were working in the same places????

I will be the first and I usually am the first to say, "if you cannot afford children then you do not need them".
I am specifically talking about those inner city youths age 12 to 25 as well as those living in trailer parks in the suburbs.

I want to be clear on this...I am no way in support of the "bullshit" that goes on in the city. So I second your feelings in that regard.

I also agree that without a solid family foundation it is next to impossible for single mothers to successfully raise boys in particular into responsible young men. NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE!

I am not speaking to the "three" success stories of black mothers who accomplished this incredible task. I am being sarcastic. I do not need to be attacked any angry mothers on here...the point I am making is...you should not have had to raise them alone.

Let me address the financial aid that is given to those who have made mistakes. A cut off point does need to be established. Yes!!! it is terrible to think that some have actually planned children on welfare.
The only argument I have with whites or I should say conservatives is there has to be a detailed "road" not only off the system but out of the mindset. Most of the time, all I hear...is..."cut them off!!!!" Never any well thought out plans with details...like...which school a girl who has three children should attend and what should she focus on? Yes, I know she may not be academically ready for any examples...I am saying, at the very least give me a model for at least one.

I guess I need to go back and study politics...I mean really take a class and not a correspondence course....Coleman was bad!!!??? I must not know enough about politics, I have a friend of mine who's life was destroyed under the Bush administration and he has an 8x10 color portrait of this guy on his desk. I admit I do not get it. Coleman may not have been perfect and me being born in 1968 without an understanding of what he did that destroyed the city makes it difficult to understand.
I'm going to do some serious investigating on this.
the only thing that I know he did that I saw Archer do an exact reversal on was integrating the Police Department.
Here in New York City there are a lot of cops that live on Long Island and places way out from where they work. A few I personally as I do with them, and I can remember one of my commercial vans was vandalized on my block and I was telling one of my customers about it who happens to be a cop in the city. He lives about 45 minutes to an hour from me out on Long Island. I was showing him the photos and he said, "I would never keep a vehicle with tools on the streets of New York". I thought, that is funny...you patrol New York streets...is it that bad???? "If you want to make a report because you care about the neighborhood then do so because we do use the info". "If you don't care about the neighborhood or you are planning on moving I would not file anything".
That was the first time I felt like maybe it is a good idea that it be required you live where you work and maybe you should know the people in the neighborhoods that you patrol and have better relationships with them than the negatives ones you are obviously used to. Living way out here is certainly not going to help that situation.

I also agree that "luck" is when opportunity meets preparation. Once again I agree that people do need to be educated.

Yes, unemployment in Michigan was low for sometime...but not in the city. I mean if it were then welfare would not have been necessary. Like I said, a man would have been able to pay his child support. It's not like he would have had much choice....Friend of the court was very friendly with payroll department at GM, Ford and Chrysler.

Perfectgentleman-you did say that you do have all of the answers...neither do I. I also do not have a problem with someone stating the facts even when it is negative. But when it gets down to solutions...I am just saying you cannot just throw these people out in the streets. You cannot just cut them off!!! I just did some math and I said this much about Detroit, if you could not make it in school for whatever reason...you were lucky because you lived in the automotive capital of the world and if you could handle some overtime and good old fashioned hard work...you did not have to live without any dignity.
There were a lot of unskilled white people who lived very well during Detroit's heyday. they had no more skill than Detroit's youth now. But, those jobs were here.

I am not saying that the lack of the auto industry causes a girl to go out and get pregnant out of wedlock...I am saying that when a girl does get pregnant...the main thing people want to know is if the boy has a job and where does he work? If she says, "yes, he works at Wal-Mart" we are much like the GM exec who said to my uncle..."you cannot raise a family on $55 per week". We frown and we are upset because we know she is going to have a hard time and so is the baby.
If she however says, "Yes, he works at Ford" , though we make not like the morally bad side of the out of wed-lock situation...we all generally shut up and mind our own business. Because we know they have a chance. Bonus points if she says he is in skilled trades.

I am saying that the auto industry, post office or construction were good jobs that you could raise a family on with dignity.

I get mad at the conservatives on here because they call the "job" in the plant an entitlement, a handout!
It is honest work...you just happen to make good money because you have a union.
Good!

(Message edited by Kaptansolo on September 06, 2007)
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 219
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 1:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rosedleken, I have noticed that thing about the other women looking for "thugs" as well.

"There is a new black man on the cover of GQ and his name is 50 Cent."

Yeah, we "sell-outs" have been replaced.

In other words, everyone has figured a way to get rid of us.
lol...really laughing out loud

In other words...
White women, Asian women, Hispanic women, East Indian women do not like us either because we are not "black enough" and we have been acting too "white" and we damn sure are not "keeping it real"........ at all!


LOL

(Message edited by Kaptansolo on September 06, 2007)
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 220
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 1:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol...that is fucked up!
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 2279
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kaptansolo -

I wish the manufacturing jobs never left too, I don't think our trade policies are serving our country well. I think both parties are to blame for that. But here we are, now what?

I do not advocate abruptly cutting people off of the welfare roles. I do advocate reforms that reinforce good decisions and discourage bad ones. You are living proof that the challenges black folks face can be overcome.

The example of the black guy working at IBM is interesting. That is one area where opportunities opened up, even for those without a college degree yet minorities seem to be under-represented in that industry. Why?

I started out learning one programming language several years back and am now making over 100 grand in THIS AREA even though I have no degree. I taught myself through books and trial and error on the job. I never had a cousin or somebody like that to get me in at GM, Ford or Chrysler so I looked elsewhere for opportunities. It took time but eventually my efforts paid off.

In the end, no government program is going to make someone a success.
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 221
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"In the end, no government program is going to make someone a success."

We do agree on that.

I sincerely apologize for offending you...

I want to you to know that one thing I may have that I feel sometimes a lot of white people take for granted...is I had parents who gave a damn. Even though they should and it is natural...I consider myself to be a very lucky man.

We will have to investigate the minorities and find out why they were not applying at IBM or why IBM was not hiring them?
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Hpgrmln
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Username: Hpgrmln

Post Number: 138
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 5:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"as well as those living in trailer parks in the suburbs."

Actually, thats less suburbs and more rural.This is a normal thing down south, in the small towns. The lower the population, the more it seems to occur.Unfortunately, it doesnt stop there. Escalated use of meth is also in the equation.
These are the same women who absolutely love "thug" guys, have their kid, then never hear from them again.
And-fewer good jobs in rural America.
You can keep going with the comparisons.Folks in the country and folks in the hood are about the same.Ya just gotta take the time to notice.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6472
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 5:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rasputin is back reincarnated as Blksoul_x.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 1071
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 6:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BlkSoul- see you at Holy Frickin Detroit

STREET PROPHETS!
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 575
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 7:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is my last post in this thread.

I have no idea why everyone thinks that the average adult women, black or white, are interested in "thugs" and are the cause of the proliferation of thug culture. *laughs* Then again, this thread is filled with perspectives that I just don't see in my everyday life.

What happens to people from marginalized groups who don't fit the stereotypes? You either get labeled as an exception, or are rendered invisible.

I'd say that this forum is as male as it is white. Unfortunately, because of racism, gender issues get subsumed... but heck, I took my flambe over issues of sex YEARS ago here. Not willing to rehash old debates.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 2280
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I sincerely apologize for offending you...

I want to you to know that one thing I may have that I feel sometimes a lot of white people take for granted...is I had parents who gave a damn. Even though they should and it is natural...I consider myself to be a very lucky man.



No offense taken and I hope you don't take offense to my remarks. I think having parents who give a damn is the key to many things and we all need to be stressing that. I really only had one parent growing up but she did a great job with 4 kids and it made a huge difference in all of our lives.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1558
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd say that this forum is as male as it is white.

Hmm. Maybe! Interesting... Too bad we can't do polls on here...
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 222
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excuse us English, I think I can speak for Rosedaleken too.

We were not hardly suggesting that all women black or white have this interest. The mere fact that this "man" is no longer in the shadows but is now on the mainstream scene to the point that people we would have never thought would be looking in their direction are almost asking us why we are not that way. I thought it was a position in life to avoid, I have learned that this is true from certain standpoints. I was taught that this was an absolute.
So we are surprised at any woman, that "we" might come in contact with, looking for this "thug" brother.

I did ask you...how come "we" never meet "you".
It was an honest question. I took a white girl out 14 years ago...that was my first and so far my last. In 39 years, I have never dated a black woman that did not have children. The childless ones that you speak of never seem to cross paths with me...or is it something else wrong?
You have stated that you are one of those exceptional black women but your two posts were quick, to the point and now you have already decided that this thread is no longer worth your time or thought.
You all must exist as you said but obviously you all do not like us.

I would really like to know, since it is a black perspective of Detroit that I do not understand??????

Why do educated men and women of the black community rarely get together?
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 113
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jt 1, you can quote all the stats you want, the fact of the matter is that it's Idaho that has the Aryan Nations headquarters, not Montana or Alberta or British Columbia. you don't live out here and you don't know much about it, I am sure of that. (paybacks are a bitch, aren't they? LMAO)

Gaz, don't forget the FLATHEAD NATION. LOL

I agree that this forum is overwhelmingly male. so true! English, come back come back!

Kaptan, that's a good question. remember that film, "Waiting To Exhale" ... there were some amazing scenes of black men and women trying to get together. how about: the grocery store? church? I don't know...interesting stuff...
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10006
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Margaret - Did you miss this statement:

"I am not saying that Montana is racist but it is one hell of a stretch to make any claims of a significant black population"

Or this:

"I don't know the differences between Northern and Southern Idaho but there is a larger black population in Idaho than Montana.

Of ocurse percentages don't mean much when looking at a state level. Look no further than Michigan to see a decent sized black population doesn't mean a state, overall, isn't pretty racist."

I even went so far to say that the stats don;t mean muhc when looking at a state level or considering racism. I admitted that Michigan, with a sizeable black population is relatively racist and the numbers are just numbers.

Maybe my point wasn't clear or you just didn't read the entire post because I am a big meanie.
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 115
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and maybe Jt1 missed this part of my original statement:

"we have black people here!"

did I claim that Montana has a "significant black population?" hell, no, I did not, Jt1, so please quit trying to twist and warp my words.
and yes you are a big meanie LMAO...
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 223
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Margaret calm down...lol.

This is meant to be funny.

I assume that you have a connection to Detroit, Michigan?
If you did not originate in Montana...you do not have to defend it by yourself...I will come there and see...and I am not coming to verify there are black people there either...lol.
Defend Detroit!
I live in New York City and I am trying to defend Detroit.
Join me! and we will defend Detroit.

New York and Montana will take care of themselves.

lol
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 224
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

www.defenseofdetroit.com

A new website produced by Margaret and the Kaptan

All proceeds will be spent in New York and Montana

LOL
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 123
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes, I grew up there, Kaptan, but have been jumped on and called names several times by that irritating Jt1 for having the NERVE to voice opinions on this forum, since I don't live there now. I just get tired of his...misinterpreting things I and others say, that's all.

I like your idea! between a New Yorker and a Montanan, we'll get the Defense Done. here's to the Defense Team From Afar...
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10019
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

and maybe Jt1 missed this part of my original statement:

"we have black people here!"

did I claim that Montana has a "significant black population?" hell, no, I did not, Jt1, so please quit trying to twist and warp my words.
and yes you are a big meanie LMAO...



I didn't miss that at all. I was quantifying your statement with numbers. Sorry if that is an issue with you.

What I find dunny is that I have been to Montana and Idaho a few times in the last couple of years. When was the last time you were in Detroit again?

I see nothing wrong with taking your opinions on the state of the city with a grain of salt when you have stated that you have not been in Detroit in 40 years.

Now outside of my less than enthusiastic welcome to someone that seems proud of not having been back in Detroit for 40 years I will say that the people I met in Montana were very nice to me.

Back to Margaret's expertise on all things Detroit.

*Side note - Thinking back to one of my times in Montana: I was checking into a place to stay and the guy behind the counter looked at my license then asked "People still live in Detroit." and stated that he grew up in Detroit. When I explained that Detroit has a many residents as his state and questioned what he meant he turned into a stuttering fool. It was pretty clear that he was asking if white people still lived in Detroit.

(Message edited by jt1 on September 06, 2007)
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4878
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats what the real reference is when people ask or say things like "I Didn't know people still lived there!"...

Its not all people they are inquiring about just a certain demographic...
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Jmil
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Username: Jmil

Post Number: 1621
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ZULU - Holla at me. Soon!!!
Detroit_Stylin, wassup fella?

Wondering how dove7 is doing???

Rest of ya, carry on speaking for "the black folks" Sho wish us blacks could be as gud as ya'll white folks. Our life be perfect den.
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 227
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I do not advocate abruptly cutting people off of the welfare roles. I do advocate reforms that reinforce good decisions and discourage bad ones. You are living proof that the challenges black folks face can be overcome."

Quote from Perfectgentleman

"I consider myself to be a very lucky man."

My quote

Sometimes we sort of miss the point. I was just re-reading your post and I don't know how I missed the part about me being an example of what can be overcome.

Without the parents I had, I would have been another statistic.
Without the parents. Sometimes, in fact a lot of times, this is a fact that some of us take for granted.
Perfectgentleman, I know you were saying that you came from a single parent household. So did I, but I knew my father quite well. Like any family, we had our differences but, his work ethic and pride about going to work everyday was definitely intact.
I had to learn a lot about Detroit and what goes on in some of these households where the situations are no where near what I came up with.

When we lived on Taylor Street off Dexter, we had mice and rats, roaches and waterbugs. Mom came home one night and there were two of them, mice (playing tag) up and down the drapes in her room. She wrapped up my sister in a blanket, grabbed me and put us in the car and took us to our grandmother's house on Rosedale and John R. Grandma's house did not have any rodents.

I want to point out resources.
1.)A mom who worked at a "high paying" job. She worked for the phone company.
2.)A grandmother who happened to have a safe haven from the rodents that my mother felt were a danger to us and she had had enough.

We were renting. There was another extermination attempt. We moved away about six months later and stayed at Grandma's house.
Mom worked a lot of overtime...I mean a lot of overtime...after a year. We moved to Taylor, MI. This was 1976 and compared to what we came from it was a paradise. Tennis court, swimming pool, playground.

Let's discuss what I was learning.

1.)working hard definitely produced results, but the "pay" had to be there. So I was learning that the same thing could not be done if my mother had been working just as hard at Kmart.
2.)My mother was not burdened with a house full of children. Money only goes as far as it goes.

There are many people who do not know what the "standards" are.
The was a young lady who wanted to know how my mother "did" it. She wanted to know how my mother worked as many hours as she did and still raised two children.
One of the first things that my mother said was, "well...I was 27 and married when "kaptansolo" was born and..."
I stopped it short because when my mother said those two things "27" "married", the girl completely blanked out because she was 27 with three and never married.
She did not know anything about "planning a baby". Not only was I planned, I was damn near blueprinted.
This was a hard pill to swallow. The point in all of this is she did not have the resources that I did. I was lucky!
She did not have a mom who was married at any age or one that could save any money because her mom never made enough money to save. Does this make her a bad person? No.
She had never seen a "move up" how would she know what the next move is? It is not as easy as we think....not the actual process....but just knowing there is a process or what that process is.

I am trying to make a point. Examples that are needed in a lot of cases to teach younger people that you do not need children at such a young age...were not and are not there in a lot of cases. Where Blksoul_x has a point is even my family might have been an example to some...but we were now out in Taylor.
People have a hard time being role models when it means they have to subject themselves to being right in the middle of the very thing they are trying to escape.
A lot of young people have no clue how they should be living between the ages of 15 and 25. they do not know anything about college because maybe only a few in their family have gone. ...and I do not mean immediate family, I mean a few cousins that they do not see and next thing you know...they are living way out too. No one there to talk about the experiences they had in school to perhaps develop interest in the younger inner city kids.

I think that the reason a lot of times "we" are labeled "Uncle Tom" or "sell-out" is because white people grab us and lead the charge saying how it can be done...and sometimes we lead the charge too ...all the while TAKING FOR GRANTED the resources we had to get us to where we are.

On a lighter note. There was a guy who used to shave at work when I was in college. He used a depilatory/Magic shave. I used to shave at work too if I was going out afterwards. I use "edge" and a razor.
Magic Shave has a very strong and offensive odor. I already know this because there members of my family who used it when I was growing up. Some white guys were coming through the locker room and started to complain (this was the first time they complained but it had been going on for about two weeks). One them asked why he had to use "that stuff" and then pointed me out and said, "well the kaptan does not use that".
I responded by saying, "yes, that is true, I do not." " and I am sure you are aware that black people come in all shades with all types of features?" "The reason I am able to use shaving cream and not Magic shave is because the "white folks" in my family are not too far up the ladder(though I do not personally know them)and my hair is different and you have a lot of nerve comparing the two of us without using your brain." " Do not single me out as an example until you do some investigating as to why something might be that way." "You may find that I am a close relative and you may not be prepared for that." "The odor of Magic Shave will be the least of your problems."

He just took it for granted that everybody could do as he does and then when he found one who could...he did not even try to find out why. Had he done so...he would have realized every black man is not going to be able to use the same products.

I just want people to realize that it takes a lot of thought to sort out all the "problems" of the inner city and even more thought to fix them.

One of the main problems that does exist is the partial assimilation. I have spoken about this on other threads mainly the one about funding the Indians.
The truth is...everybody does not want to "assimilate". Whether their situation is "bad" or not. A lot of people feel that because this is a "free" country, they should be allowed to be themselves and not have to assimilate to be able to fit into society and have a productive life. In some cases I believe this is the basis of "reverse racism" that white people run into sometimes when they encounter some of us.

I have my own feelings about assmilation...but I think it is a fact.

(Message edited by kaptansolo on September 07, 2007)
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Jrvass
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Username: Jrvass

Post Number: 206
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 6:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kaptansolo,

I'd like to shake your hand and buy you a beverage someday.

Magic shave? I forgot all about that stuff! I remember my black roommates in college complaining about beard stubble. 20+ years ago.

Yeah, people can call you "Uncle Tom" or whatever. Fuck them.

I call you and your Mom... successful.

There is nothing wrong with that. Your Mom is a hero in my eyes for raising a child like you.

(Message edited by jrvass on September 07, 2007)
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 228
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 6:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Jrvass..but I want it to be understood that I am trying to break these things down where we can all understand perhaps why we are all beings idiots in some ways. I have admitted in there that even I have made serious mistakes, jumped to conclusions and gotten pissed off...right here on Detroit Yes and I realize that a lot of it could be explained by both races. Then if we are all going to be "idiots"...at least we will know why.
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Vetalalumni
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Username: Vetalalumni

Post Number: 707
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just chilling and listening to Prince's Controversy (1980) and Dirty Mind (1981) CDs. Reminds of great times had in Detroit back then.

After reading all of the posts here I've learned from many of you (Oakmangirl, Mayor_sekou, Digitalvision, Michigan, and Rosedaleken). Special thanks to English and especially Kaptansolo for the interesting posts! Well anyway, I have not yet shared my perspective on the future of Detroit.

To put it simply, I am scared for Detroit. The fear I have is that neither the leaders or citizens of Detroit will find a way to overcome the myriad of complex problems being suffered for many years now. I don't know what the answers are, which is frustrating and discouraging. If the solutions were easy, the problems likely would have been somewhat resolved by now and we would not be having this dialogue. Understandably, apathy, anger, resentment, and distrust have settled upon the hearts of many. Finger-pointing, accusations, and blaming abound.

Sometimes I want to yell out in frustration "Come on Detroiters, show the world what you are made of. Many have lost faith in or disrespect you, even ridicule you. Prove them wrong!".
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 229
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vetalalumni-"Let's Work" is still one of Prince's baddest bass lines.
I was a bigtime Minneapolis sound "nut" back then. The 80's. A time I thought would never end.
Do you remember when you always knew of someone who played in a band? Somebody that played guitar or keyboards. I played drums and later bass.
It's funny the current generation knows the word "producer" but few no of any musician even at the amateur level.

Just a thought...
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Lvnthed
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Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 147
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Before I offer my perspective of the D, Lets clear up a few things first.

The use of "Single Mother" is used way too liberally for my taste. There should be a clear distinction between "Absent and Custodial Parent".
When people write disparaging remarks about unwed mothers, they conveniently omit various routes to that end when dealing with the black experience. There is no category for divorce, co-habitation, Non-custodial But Involved Parent.

Whites,by default are given the benefit of the doubt that both parents are present in the childs life even though Divorce, separations and absent fathers are prevalent in that community also.

But the information is spun to make it seem like it's a black problem, not a societal problem.

If I were to believe many on this post My ex-wife is a Single mother/baby momma and I am a deadbeat absent father, even though I have never spent one day out of my daughters life, provided the financial and moral support of the best fathers, have established a College fund for her future. But because her mother lives and WORKS in Detroit, NONE OF THAT COUNTS. Because she is a "SINGLE BLACK WOMAN".

People, let's keep it real.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1574
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The truth is...everybody does not want to "assimilate". Whether their situation is "bad" or not. A lot of people feel that because this is a "free" country, they should be allowed to be themselves and not have to assimilate to be able to fit into society and have a productive life. In some cases I believe this is the basis of "reverse racism" that white people run into sometimes when they encounter some of us.

I never thought about it that way... but you may be on to something.
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 124
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey, Kaptan: DEFENSE, DEFENSE, (stomp stomp stomp-stomp-stomp) etc.

well, let me say this about that (anyone remember who used to say that? LOL!): let's say I actually "bragged" about not returning to Detroit for 40 years...hmmm...it's not exactly true, I was there in '75 and I admit that was the last time for many reasons, not the least of which is that all my family and most of my old friends and classmates are gone now, too. just for the record on here, and not to answer that pesty one's obnoxious questions:
- just because a person may not be able to afford vacations/time off work to take trips to, say, Detroit, should that mean his/her opinion on the city is any less valuable?
- or, because a person who grew up in Detroit is proud of making his/her way to a different lifestyle, one that he/she feels is much healthier and suitable FOR HIM OR HER, then that means this particular ex-Detroiter does not have a valuable voice/insight on Detroit?
- can Detroiters not relate to the fact that the city is extremely troubled in many, many ways, and people who have left find it upsetting to return and see some of the changes?
(I for one think it's important to listen to criticism, always! or is the pesty one so "all-knowing" there is nothing to be learned, in his/her case?)
- is there not a place, a valued place, on this forum or wherever else, for the voice of those who see the long view, have lived in many places since leaving Detroit, and although critical of the D do indeed care about the place?
- since when is criticism considered counter-productive? I say, DetroitYES! means Detroit, Yes, get your shit together, PLEASE??? I would love nothing more than to see Detroit improve and become the sort of place I actually WANT to visit, once again! There is such a long, long way to go, and all this energy is spent whining, fighting, trying to look so smart. screw all that and get to work improving your city!

perhaps this is what's missing in Detroit's leadership: an honest, direct, no-shit view of what's wrong and what's right in the city. on this forum I hear again and again about the lack of public transportation, to take just one example. what on earth is up with that? just to take one issue...in this day and age, for a huge city to not have decent public transportation? what's the deal?

Kaptan, I'm afraid our Defense of Detroit efforts are doomed...sigh and sigh again
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10056
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I will answer your questions but you are more than welcome to direct them to me as well:

quote:

- just because a person may not be able to afford vacations/time off work to take trips to, say, Detroit, should that mean his/her opinion on the city is any less valuable?



No, it does not. But it also is true that if you haven't been somewhere in 32 years that you certainly are no expert on the issues the city, region and state are facing. Your opinion is nothing more since it is rooted in a memory of a place and not the current reality.

quote:

- or, because a person who grew up in Detroit is proud of making his/her way to a different lifestyle, one that he/she feels is much healthier and suitable FOR HIM OR HER, then that means this particular ex-Detroiter does not have a valuable voice/insight on Detroit?



How valuable can an insight be when you have not been here for 32 years. I am all for people making the best choices for their own lives but that means that you have to realize your opinions and ideas are rooted in the Detroit of 1975, not the one now.

quote:

- can Detroiters not relate to the fact that the city is extremely troubled in many, many ways, and people who have left find it upsetting to return and see some of the changes?



Yes, we know the city has many issues but it is extremely frustrating to hear how to fix things from someone that has been gone since 1975.

Let's use a little analogy for you: Imagine your home is foreclosed and I haven't spoken to you in 32 years. Would you appreciate me calling and saying "Well, Margaret, here is what you need to do even if I have no clue of your real situation." If comes of as extremely condescending and past on historical fact, not current fact.

quote:

(I for one think it's important to listen to criticism, always! or is the pesty one so "all-knowing" there is nothing to be learned, in his/her case?)



The idea that all criticism is good is nonsensical. if you know someone that is 400 pounds is it beneficical to tell them everyday that they are fat?

quote:

- is there not a place, a valued place, on this forum or wherever else, for the voice of those who see the long view, have lived in many places since leaving Detroit, and although critical of the D do indeed care about the place?



A lot of people 'care' about Detroit but most aren't willing to live here or spend any money here. 'Care' doesn't iimprove the city, help the financial situation or the quality of life for the citizens. I'll be sure to take a note to the bank that says "Margaret cares" and try to deposit it into my account. It should be enough to pay off my mortgage.

quote:

- since when is criticism considered counter-productive? I say, DetroitYES! means Detroit, Yes, get your shit together, PLEASE??? I would love nothing more than to see Detroit improve and become the sort of place I actually WANT to visit, once again!



And therein lies the problem that you are oblivous too. You are trying to tell Detroiters how to improve Detroit to your standards. I care about the city, the quality of life of the residents, the people struggling to make the city better, the families that need better schools and services. Sorry but making Detroit good enough for Margaret to come to Detroit every 32 years is pretty low on the list.

I know I come off as a prick and I am fine with that. I just hope some of the points made in this post sink in.
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 125
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I just want people to realize that it takes a lot of thought to sort out all the "problems" of the inner city and even more thought to fix them."

Kaptan, are there other cities that have succeeded in sorting out their inner city problems, that could be role models for Detroit? Are there ways to utilize lessons learned elsewhere, rather than the tiresome, unnecessary re-inventing of the wheel every time? if this is a "no-brainer" and not relevant, please forgive my ignorance or my, in your wonderful words, "being an idiot in some ways..." (which I do freely admit, except to that one irritating, pesty one...LOL)

"One of the main problems that does exist is the partial assimilation...In some cases I believe this is the basis of "reverse racism" that white people run into sometimes when they encounter some of us."

very good point, Kaptan! I think that many minorities, including one that I deal with every day here where I live, are proud of their cultural uniqueness, that point at which they are not assimilating. they're proud, as they should be, and they don't want to lose that uniqueness. and why should any of us lose our cultural uniqueness? there is plenty of reverse racism here where I live; our local racism problems are absolutely a two-way street. some of that, I believe, is sheer defensiveness; some of it begs the question of "what-came-first-the-chicken-o r-the-egg" -- a person's bad experiences/hurt feelings and resulting anger generate hatred/fear, that's what I think. unfortunately, given human nature, it is extremely difficult to keep an open mind when these emotional factors enter into it -- it doesn't matter whether you're on a rural Indian reservation or in an inner city, it's the same thing. but like you say, Kaptan, not every "fix" works for everyone. it depends on a person's culture, when you get right down to it.

does any of this make sense? I sure hope so.

this may sound ridiculously simplistic, but I'm thinking this: the only way to truly find solutions is to "walk a mile in that other person's moccasins."
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 126
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jt1, did I ever claim to be an expert? hell NO

not the current reality? as if Detroit has changed so much? I really, really doubt it! time and time again I have read comments on this forum that indicate that the root problems NOW date back to the time when I was growing up there...

when have I even tried to tell people "how to fix things?" I don't believe I have done that or tried to tell anyone what to do...

"You are trying to tell Detroiters how to improve Detroit to your standards."

really? when did I do that, exactly? you're so full of shit it's not even funny...

"Sorry but making Detroit good enough for Margaret to come to Detroit every 32 years is pretty low on the list."

and that's a huge problem for YOU...because Detroit is seriously trying to become a vacation destination, right? so with people like you, with attitudes like that, GOOD LUCK.

"I know I come off as a prick"

glad to hear that you realize that. you have such a habit of misinterpreting things that are said, it's totally maddening. you can call me silly, nonsensical, whatever, but IF and WHEN you begin to accurately reflect what is actually said on here I will be much more open to letting your "points sink in." not until...
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10058
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The pesky one will respond:

quote:

Kaptan, are there other cities that have succeeded in sorting out their inner city problems, that could be role models for Detroit? Are there ways to utilize lessons learned elsewhere, rather than the tiresome, unnecessary re-inventing of the wheel every time?



There are certainly successes in other cities that leadership in Detroit is trying to leverage. The problem lies that Detroi faces a relatively unique situation that no other large city (that I know of) is written off by the region as is the case in Detroit. Other metro areas support their core city, here it is a punchline. Without a regional focus it is infinitely harder to go anything positive.

The money and many people have left and want nothing to do with the city and will fight tooth and nail if 1 cent of their money goes to the city. In other states (NY and Minny I believe) there is actually a statewide tax that funnels money to their core city. We have a region with many people that are proud of the fact that they have not been to Detroit since 1975 but the difference is that they live 10 miles away, not across the country. Sadly Detroit's situations financially, economically and regionally is pretty unique.

We can still learn from other regions but we face some unique challenges. As an example: Other regions are working to get mass transit in place as a regional goal. In Metro Detroit we have suburbs voting to opt out of regional bus service to reduce their own local tax rate. We are a stupid region.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10059
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

not the current reality? as if Detroit has changed so much? I really, really doubt it! time and time again I have read comments on this forum that indicate that the root problems NOW date back to the time when I was growing up there...



A rather bold and incorrect assumption.

quote:

"You are trying to tell Detroiters how to improve Detroit to your standards."

really? when did I do that, exactly? you're so full of shit it's not even funny...



From Margaret:

I say, DetroitYES! means Detroit, Yes, get your shit together, PLEASE??? I would love nothing more than to see Detroit improve and become the sort of place I actually WANT to visit, once again!

quote:

"Sorry but making Detroit good enough for Margaret to come to Detroit every 32 years is pretty low on the list."

and that's a huge problem for YOU...because Detroit is seriously trying to become a vacation destination, right? so with people like you, with attitudes like that, GOOD LUCK.



Downtown is trying to become an entertainment destination. The rest of the city has families and lives. They are all too often forgotten about.

The typical "You're mean so I won't come to Detroit" repsonse. If I avoided every city that had a mean person I wouldn't be able to go to many places. That is the most tired logic known to man. When I encounter people from out of town I go out of my way to accomadate them and make their stay enjoyable. Of course they think that spending money in Detroit right now is a good idea. It isn't good enough for you yet.

quote:

know I come off as a prick"

glad to hear that you realize that. you have such a habit of misinterpreting things that are said, it's totally maddening. you can call me silly, nonsensical, whatever, but IF and WHEN you begin to accurately reflect what is actually said on here I will be much more open to letting your "points sink in." not until...



Still oblivious but that is fine. I may misinterpret somethings. No question but you are just as guilty of misinterpreting posts and guilty of missing the entire point that things have changed since 1975.

PS - I just got back from the bank. They said the "Margaret cares" note isn't worth anything. I was stunned. Guess I will go on paying my mortgage.
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 127
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks, Jt1, that is an interesting post, and I appreciate it. Are there ways to significantly penalize surburbs for opting out like that? there should be! it seems like mass transit has to by its very nature be a comprehensive, region-wide effort. or can the City of Detroit somehow coordinate within this "stupid region" to provide connecting city transit to those 'burbs? ...I used to live in San Francisco, for quite a few years, and I found their public transit
impressive. I know Detroit has unique problems, but what a triumph it would be to find solutions and apply them, turn things around, and show what real Detroiters are made of.
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 128
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

obviously my 4:15 post was referring to your decent post re. the transit problem, Jt1, not this other...

well if you and your bank think that former residents still caring about Detroit is worth nothing, that's your problem, too. it's a friggin miracle, nothing less, that I still care about Detroit, for so many reasons, none of which you want to hear.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10061
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our government structure allows and probably encourages each city, township to act as theirown independent entities. There can't be a penalty since SMART is a system that cities can opt in or opt out of. To make it even worse there is SMART (suburbs) and DDOT(city). They can't even get their stuff together to consolidate to one bus service.

This region still has a lot of wealth and could be very powerful but we work in little fiefdoms as opposed to looking towards being a region.

One glaring effect is that as opposed to Michigan/SE Michigan trying to lure jobs from other states or countries we work to woo a business from Livonia to Detroit or from Detroit to Bloomfield, etc.

There needs to be regional cooperation and regional sharing of resources but there are issues. It isn't even just city vs. suburb but we have county vs. county, suburb vs. suburb.

Imagine a big dysfunctional family were everyone works and struggles. If this region were that family the members would prefer to all own their own home and face foreclosure than buying a home with a pool of money and sharing space.

It is very frustrating and all players in the city and the suburbs are at fault to some extent.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10062
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS - I think that the state of Michigan has forced lawmakers and decision makers to start locally at more regional cooperation.

Some suburbs are looking at consolidating services to save money. It's a start in something that is long overdue.

Hopefully the city and suburbs can all get friendly with each other since they are all at fault.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 10063
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

|quote{obviously my 4:15 post was referring to your decent post re. the transit problem, Jt1, not this other...

well if you and your bank think that former residents still caring about Detroit is worth nothing, that's your problem, too. it's a friggin miracle, nothing less, that I still care about Detroit, for so many reasons, none of which you want to hear.}

I have no problems with arguing and conversing on the same thread. I think that anyone is going to have feelings for the place that they were raised. The odd thing with Detroit is that so many people around here have great memories for the city and utter comtempt for the city at the same time.

PS - Above where I say 'the state of Michigan I meant the current state of things in Michigan, not the state itself.
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Kaptansolo
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Username: Kaptansolo

Post Number: 235
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

on the "thug" concept.

I spoke with my cousin in Brooklyn yesterday and we discussed some of the topics here. My cousin's wife had the quickest answer for why "thugs" where now front and center.

"Quite simply, they represent money."
They "represent" more money than working men do.
They "represent" more money to the inner city than Mr. IBM and they have more style with it.
Then there is that "rebel" appeal that some women dig at various times in their lives and there you have it.

Because they are all over the television and in movies, other nationalities see them as the premiere black man...he is what is promoted by Hollywood and DJ's at radio stations around the world.
White women, black women, Asians, Latinas and any other woman you can think of see him first because he is what is "pushed" and having money certainly does not hurt. Black women do not have to look to the media outlets to see him because he is right in the neighborhood and accessible.
Mr. IBM, remember, has moved to the suburbs. He is no longer around.
He is not on T.V..
He is not an athlete.
He may have money but he does not "represent" money.


Anyway, this was her take on it.

It does make some sense.
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Vetalalumni
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Username: Vetalalumni

Post Number: 1141
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please, no hip-hop mayor this time.
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 574
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 2:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hip Hop Mayor from "savior" to cell mate. Thats sad.
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Colgatesmile
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Username: Colgatesmile

Post Number: 29
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

on the "thug" concept.

As a single (not married) 30 yo middle income, black woman, who truly hates drama when it comes to relationships-
Here is my experience/perspective.

Thugs or bad boys can come in many forms but they have one thing in common- lying and manipulation.

Some are very, very charming, will tell you all the right things (to the point it doesnt seem logical) they are in love with you in two days and willing to give you the world, but cant give you their home number.

Some know how to take care of themselves- they smell good, they look good, and they have spent time perfecting their craft (charming women),
A 'bad' boy is not always obvious, they dont all wear baggy pants, have long hair or drive motorcycles- many wear business suits and get manicures.

Sometimes women fall for the okie doke and since they are women, their hearts may already be in it before they realise what a jerk the guy is.

Good guys on the other hand take more time with the woman, try to learn what her goals are and if they match his. They dont promise the world because they know they cant offer it. Good guys may not look as good, be as sexy, charming and exciting as the bad boys - so therefore they dont get as much play as the bad guys.

However, I think the good guys end up on top in the long run, because they found a woman who loves them for them, no games, no tricks or regrets.

My advice to good guys is dont move too slow, if you like a girl tell her u are interested- dont wait until she is with someone else in then say 'you knew i was interested'. Also, be exciting, put in a little effort- even at the risk of rejection. She will appreciate your efforts. Take time to look good, smell good, walk with confidence, approach with confidence.

Remember it takes a good woman to truly appreciate a good man, if she doesnt appreciate you- dont waste your time. There are a lot of us who truly appreciate you, even if it doesnt seem that way.

Anyway, that is my soapbox for good guys vs. bad guys
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Colgatesmile
Member
Username: Colgatesmile

Post Number: 30
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JwJ originally wrote "Okay. Here I go! I have been reading and posting for awhile now and I have this perception that most of the opinions and memories on this site are coming from white folks. Am I wrong? The reason why I am curious is because the city is predominately black. I would truly like to read about the black perspective on the future of Detroit. If I am off-base here, I apologize. But I became even more curious after reading the posts from the thread about going to city hall for permits."

...and after reading all the twists and turns of this thread I find it interested how we have come to the conclusion that the forum is majority white.

It seems like the contributions of blacks are limited to explanations, defenses, actual opinions and beliefs are few and far between. It is a reflection of the black experience as a whole in reality.

We are asked for our opinion, but we are limited in expressing it. We give our opinion and someone says "well so and so says this" or "you took to long in answering" or "you are whining" or "i dont like that answer".

Rarely is there a black forum or black oriented, where there is not interruption by white forumers.
I am not against this, but I think blacks should be allowed to express full unedited opinions first and then come in to dissect them.

Even the 'black roll call thread' started off with a lot of conflict.

However, there may not be enough black participation on this forum for a vibrant discourse of opinions and experiences regarding Detroit. So I am will enjoy the thread as it stands, as it is one of many many insights into how some whites view blacks. In the real world many things people say in threads, they would never say to your face.

To answer the original posters question regarding the outlook of Detroit- In a nutshell, I was very positive 8 years ago. However, the last 4 years have been heartbreaking, and so sad. Today, I recognize despite its issues, Detroit has been good to me (no criminal incidents to me or my family) I have a good job, nice car, own my home, healthy, debt free and happy(partly due to cautious living from fear of layoffs). That is so much more than many other people in this economy and society right now. I see the city in a crossroads and it may hurt for a while, before we turn around- but the good thing now is- we have the opportunity to actually turn this city around for the better. The city was complacent with poor services and government officials and it came back to bite us all pretty hard, so hopefully everyone has learned their lesson and will make better decisions not only when it comes to who they vote for but decisions they make regarding their lifestyles.
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Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni

Post Number: 1149
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colgatesmile, you obviously have an acute sensitivity to relationships. People everywhere have similar experiences, however the conclusions arrived at are unique. Thanks for the post.
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Servite76
Member
Username: Servite76

Post Number: 71
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Golgate, I'm not going to elaborate, but your comments on the "Thug concept" were amazing.

(Message edited by servite76 on September 14, 2008)
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Colgatesmile
Member
Username: Colgatesmile

Post Number: 31
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Vetalumni and Servite, I had originally ask the administators not to post these comments because I realized (after I sent them) the thread was over a year old.
However, they did post them, but I guess they are still relevant and I am glad you enjoyed my post.