  Kaptansolo Member Username: Kaptansolo Post Number: 205 Registered: 07-2007 |
"[update] Is the following translation correct? "...it appears , many of the posters analogies are perhaps responses predicated upon the imposition of the dominate archetype" = The posts are based upon constraints of the prevailing model (i.e. societal structure). To Vetal: I think your translation is correct. | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 135 Registered: 07-2006 |
Clearly someone has recently taken a college course and is regurgitating what they have learned (although it is clear they have not developed their own opinion)! Geez, try being original and maybe you'll make some sense. Or perhaps they took that entire comment out of a text book. Lol... | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 136 Registered: 07-2006 |
Going back to my original point and in response to this comment from above, people are not that smart. People migrate toward what is familiar and comfortable (race, ethnicity are primary factors) that goes back to the beginning of human life. This is not a new phenomenon. And so I am not sure what the following comment means?? Are you trying to say what has already been said in a different way? "I think that obviously we all as individuals can't get along all the time; however, when we have the intellectual ability that sets us apart and start "grouping" and setting each other apart based on race, social class, etc., we veer into dangerous territory. Thinking of an individual as only part of a larger group resulted in horrific crimes like lynchings, gas chambers, to name a few" Hmm? | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 137 Registered: 07-2006 |
another thought...I think animals are a lot smarter than people. I think instinct is a powerful thing. Humans are unfortunate to have intellect because we waste it!! If we are so smart why do we have senseless wars, racism, and child abuse. You don't see dogs raping dogs because they had screwed up childhoods! That's intellect for ya. This is not a positive post but and my point is people can be smart but they choose not too! All people who are racist, hate, abuse or do anything negative MAKE THE CHOICE TO DO SO, and this is what makes intellect dangerous. | ||
Yelloweyes Member Username: Yelloweyes Post Number: 182 Registered: 02-2007 |
There is no doubt that Blacks got a raw deal in this country. That is a fact. Slavery and then repressed for 100 years. Blacks have had to fight very hard for what they have. Blacks have created their own culture in this country, and are still fighting to keep it. In my opinion...I think many black Detroiters are proud by what they have created, because it is theirs, something they have been denied for hundreds of years in this country. They have created a culture and city all their own. But I also think that there are many Black Detroiters that are disappointed by what Detroit has become...these people have moved to Southfield! As a society, blacks have fought for something of their own, a communitiy, and a city. Is this a mostly white forum? That can be the beauty of the internet, there are no faces. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 263 Registered: 08-2007 |
Yeah, Mani, I plagiarize regularly for pure enjoyment. I'll ignore the other insults. I think we agree upon reading your last post, but honestly you're original post wasn't that clear to me. Perhaps...it was just too original? Really, you could turn it into a dissertation topic. | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1043 Registered: 04-2007 |
LOL OMG | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1534 Registered: 04-2006 |
Is this a mostly white forum? I thought it was rather obvious. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 2500 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: White, with lovely blue accents. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4861 Registered: 10-2003 |
LOL Pam... | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1045 Registered: 04-2007 |
very good pam  | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 138 Registered: 07-2006 |
Oakmangirl...not sure why you are on the defense, i was not insulting you. You are taking my comments out of context. Too bad, I was hoping for some constructive dialog! Can't seem to find it on this forum. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6465 Registered: 02-2004 |
Don't need to, Mani. Everyone has their own codespeak. Just read their messages and apply. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 266 Registered: 08-2007 |
Mani, In re-reading my first post, it does seem a bit confusing (I had been writing for a work related article and was tired; I should have waited to post). However, your initial response seemed sarcastic. Guess my instinct to defend myself took over. Anyway, I was trying to say I agree but wasn't entirely clear on your post. I was trying to say our intellect sets us apart (as does conscience) from lower animals, but we instead use it to generalize and stereotype people into groups which is where things fall apart; this, like you said leaves us no better than animals, in effect. Does that make a little more sense? My question is why do we instinctively group rather than value each other as unique individuals? My thought is that because we don't choose to "mingle" with those different from us, it develops into ignorance and a fear of the "unknown" culture = racism. Of course, this is oversimplification to a degree. Over to you... | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 699 Registered: 05-2007 |
Blksoul_x, the perspective you provided deserves additional attention. There are questions and responses. Please review the subsequent posts that referred to your post. Thanks. | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1048 Registered: 04-2007 |
I notice that people get very upset if they feel that whites are excluding blacks. But no one seems to be bothered by the fact that ( based on the posts from Kap and BLK) blacks conciously choose to self-segregate from whites. Perhaps the black IBM executive is in fact being true to who he is. Maybe, just maybe, instead of trying to pull him down, people would do well to lift themselves to his level. BLK_X you ask who is doing more damage, Mr IBM or a crack dealer? Neither. You are, by perpetuating a mode of behaviour and philosophy that leads to economic stagnation, desperation, and crime. Instead of attacking Mr. IBM, because you are jealous or threatened that his success will expose your lack thereof, why don't you get your act together and start letting the "Real Brothas" know that as long as they act like idiots, they will live like idiots; and so will their offspring. "Pay for the cable", what an assinine idea. How about, "pay for college". Poor white folks in Appalachia? Damn straight, and a sorry state of affairs. But no white person, and I mean no white person, is choosing to walk around barefoot , shirtless and wearing overalls bragging that he just dropped out of school to run the moonshinin' still over yonder, so that folks will think he is "Real". Whites are not ostracized by other whites for wearing a Brooks Brothers suit, they are emulated. That is the difference- white people do not self identify as losers. I know I will get a lot of grief for this post, but what the heck. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2217 Registered: 03-2006 |
Michigan - Good post. One of the things that seems to differ between the White folks and Black folks is that failure is excused in the black community all too often. The white folks don't do that for the most part. We hold individuals responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions. There is a social stigma in the white community for dropping out of school, having children out of wedlock, getting involved in crime or drugs or ending up on welfare. The family unit is more intact and these problems are discussed with kids early on in order to avoid them. When they do happen, there is more tough love applied than excuses made to explain them and deal with them. The fact is that the successful black guy at IBM has more in common with his white counterparts at the office than he does with the crack dealers in the ghetto and there is nothing wrong with that. It does not make him less proud of his heritage or less "black." (Message edited by perfectgentleman on September 05, 2007) | ||
Kaptansolo Member Username: Kaptansolo Post Number: 206 Registered: 07-2007 |
Good post to the two of you. Both Michigan and Perfectgentlemen. You are correct that the successful black guy at IBM has more in common with his white counterparts than with crack dealers. I am one of those "black guys" and I have to agree that somewhere along the lines...it became cool to be a thug. Moonshiners made illegal money too...NASCAR is supposedly a result of the trade, but it was not glorified the way drugs has been. I mean maybe the "Dukes of Hazzard" glorified being lawless? I have a younger cousin who lives in Alabama and a sister who still lives in Michigan, both of them told that they could never marry doctors or lawyers because they really did not think they could relate to them and they really preferred thugs I was shocked. Instead of just thinking that they were insane...I decided to investigate. I have found that this phenomenon does exist. This is a problem especially when everything that the "thug" represents you have been taught that you will receive no respect if you act like that. Well Mom and Dad...you were wrong. For Black men who become Mr.IBM, it can be a lonely world. I remember those days going to Alexanders and Baker's Keyboard lounge before I was 25. Most of the time I was alone. Probably should have dated older women...but as they say, youth is wasted on the young. When I drove cross-country, I was like...where are we? I see white people just out here "livin'" and I do not see my people anywhere. When the rental car agent in Las Vegas asked me why I was out here on the road by myself? I guess I could have told her that the black people I know do not like long road trips. They have no interest in finding old alignments of Route 66. They don't like the music I listen to...well some of it. They do not like the fact that I do not sound like them...or worse, I sound like you. They do not like bus tours of cities. They are usually only interested in where the "club" is. I could go on but I think you get the picture... Occasionally, I would see a few more guys like myself. A few...and they suffered with the same problem. "Look like them and sound like the other". Michigan is right, we were ostracized by other blacks. I remember when my cousin's wife asked me one time why I thought my cousin was interested in her initially. I thought this was a dumb question considering that they had been together 18 years. She is Jewish. Nonetheless I made a go at it and one of the things I pointed out was...she was the first woman he had been with that had no children. This was definitely a strong point. She got so upset and said, "the fact that a person does not have any children is not a feature or an attribute of attraction". I said, "it is if you are black". "Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a black woman without children already?" I realized that for her and white people what Perfectgentleman said right here is true: "There is a social stigma in the white community for dropping out of school, having children out of wedlock, getting involved in crime or drugs or ending up on welfare. The family unit is more intact and these problems are discussed with kids early on in order to avoid them. When they do happen, there is more tough love applied than excuses made to explain them and deal with them." I guess in my posts I was just trying to say that it is hard to walk that line between the two races and the two colors. I can only imagine what it must really be like for interracial people. I grew up in Detroit and the surrounding suburbs but I guess my perspective probably would not count as the "black perspective" I think it would just be "my" perspective. (Message edited by Kaptansolo on September 05, 2007) | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 702 Registered: 05-2007 |
It would be interesting to read the views of black females on this topic. (Message edited by vetalalumni on September 05, 2007) | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 2509 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: You've never seen these t-shirts? They've been around since the late 80s I think: http://www.rerock4ever.com/tsh irts/graphics/00000001/TS/OTTS BLK002.jpg You don't remember that song by Beck called "Loser"? | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1050 Registered: 04-2007 |
PAM- Rock is about "stickin' it to the man" (see "School Of Rock" for further clarification). The fact that white kids (who are trying to rebel against their parents) think it is funny and subversive to call themselves "losers" demonstrates my point. Especially when they are paying $23 to $28 dollars (including shipping) for that T-shirt. Beck does not have a monopoly on rock songs about being a loser. The songs tend to be about isolated, dis-associated folks (usually young white men who can't get the girl, oh the pain). Which again, demonstrates the point. Kaptan I sincerely and deeply sympathize with you. You have lived in a very difficult spot- between two worlds, almost a "Man Without A Country". But you have also lived what appears to be an extremely rich, full, and rewarding life. An opportunity that many folks, black or white, do not get. So I hope you cherish your life and your experiences for what they are, yours. I do not know if you have children, but if you do I hope, pray, and believe that they will have it easier to be who they are, wherever they are. But until then I hope you realize that you and people like you who have transcended racial and cultural lines have improved and enriched all of our lives. I thank you for that. Oh, and your Mom and Dad were right in how they raised you. You seem to me to a son they would be proud of. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2223 Registered: 03-2006 |
Kaptansolo - Great post and very interesting perspective. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1542 Registered: 04-2006 |
I know I will get a lot of grief for this post, but what the heck. Maybe because you subconsciously realize what you said was ill-conceived, offensive and just downright bullshit? | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1055 Registered: 04-2007 |
No IHD, because I consciously realize that no one wants to hear it. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1544 Registered: 04-2006 |
Why don't you just admit that you don't know a damn thing about black culture? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1547 Registered: 04-2006 |
And you know what the scariest part about it all is... Any black person who has any aspiration of "making it" has to work in an environment surrounded by people who think like you. | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1058 Registered: 04-2007 |
Why don't you just read my post and see I based my assessment on the information provided by Kaptansolo and Blksoul_x. Perhaps it is they who know nothing of "black culture"? According to their posts, "people who think like me" do not appear to be the biggest problem. Rather, other black folks who hold "strivers" down are just as much of an impediment. Oh and a let me point something out to you IHD, I do not need to be black to learn about black culture. Have you heard of the science of Anthropology? (Message edited by michigan on September 05, 2007) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1548 Registered: 04-2006 |
Have you heard of the science of Anthropology? Yes, now tell me what you know about Anthropology? | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1062 Registered: 04-2007 |
My knowledge of Anthropology is not relevant. What is relevant is your juvenile and ignorant claim that only "black folks" can understand "black culture". "Black culture" is part and parcel of "American culture", so we all have a hand in it, and we are all influenced by it. Grow up and stop looking for bogeymen all the time. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1549 Registered: 04-2006 |
What is relevant is your juvenile and ignorant claim that only "black folks" can understand "black culture". Yet another DYes poster arguing a point through a glaring leap of logic. Never did I say or even imply anything like that. What I said was that YOU don't know a damn thing about it, as evident from your comments. Trust me, it's pretty obvious by your ill-thought out rant above that I'm right on this... |
