  Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 900 Registered: 03-2004 |
After driving a Volvo for 8 years, I returned to my roots today and bought a Ford - a 2008 Escape Hybrid. With all of Ford's woes, its too bad that they are not producing more of these - or at least sending them to California. The dealer had a stock of 2 - one FWD and one 4WD. I bought the FWD, which came off the truck last night. While my Escape was being detailed, the other hybrid was sold. They sell them as fast as they get them, and fielded 4 calls from other dealers trying to get one. Anyway, its nice to be driving American again. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4771 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hats off to you Sknutson!  It would be nice if more Californian's followed your lead! | ||
Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 901 Registered: 03-2004 |
At home in the driveway.....  | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 802 Registered: 01-2007 |
Nice photo, Sknutson! I like the sun rays as they lend a touch of the Devine. BTW: While attending the Willow Run air show this weekend, it was pointed out to me by my son, that there was very nearly ALL American build cars in the car park. Draw your own conclusions. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1112 Registered: 11-2003 |
Magnificent valor, Sknutson! | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 91 Registered: 04-2007 |
Those new escapes are pretty tight. A lot better than the first gen. Hope you enjoy your new ride! | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 278 Registered: 01-2006 |
My Mom just ordered one (hybrid, ice blue) and they said there is about a 4 week wait if you want anything else but black. That is the only color that anyone has in stock. So kudos to Ford, sounds like they should ramp up production a little. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1493 Registered: 12-2005 |
The dealer HAD to be happy to see you! | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1864 Registered: 10-2003 |
So, you get to pay $25-28K for the "privilege" of buying American? Wow. I see that this vehicle gets about 32 mpg (combined city/highway mileage). That's not as good as I'm getting in my Yaris hatchback, which I only paid $16K for, fully loaded. | ||
Supergay Member Username: Supergay Post Number: 64 Registered: 05-2006 |
A Yaris? Hatchback? Oh, honey ... | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 279 Registered: 01-2006 |
Fury, that is an asinine comparison, and you know it. You are comparing a small SUV to a subcompact. If you want to brag about how great your Yaris is, at least compare it to a Chevy Aveo or something similar. Not to mention I just read a consumers reports article that recommended the Ford Focus over the Yaris because Toyota is have quality problems with the Yaris. They stated it "did not live up to Toyota's reputation for quality workmanship." Good luck with that. Thanks for stopping by. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1608 Registered: 01-2004 |
"its nice to be driving American again" Yeah ? Open the hood and count how many places your "american" product comes from, via parts or labor. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1620 Registered: 01-2005 |
"Open the hood and count how many places your "american" product comes from, via parts or labor." You miss a key point, Mauser. The profits from the sale of that car remain in the United States. That said, I also bought an '08 Ford Escape last month (but not the hybrid). Drove it to Detroit and back, a total of over 5,000 miles. It gave me 32 MPG on the trip (car has a computer that figures it, but it matches my notes for gas purchased v. miles). Very comfortable ride, also. Now that I'm back home in Vegas, it's giving me around 22-23 mpg city driving. Hey, you guys all saw that blue Escape with the Nevada plates downtown, didn't ya???? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 978 Registered: 10-2003 |
Damn, can't even let a guy enjoy his new car without a flood of negativity and cynicism. Whatever. Enjoy your car Sknutson! Glad Ford made something that you found appealing. I think they have quite a few nice vehicles out right now. Considering your SUV gets the same mileage as my Cobalt, I'd say that's pretty cool. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 120 Registered: 02-2004 |
First, Volvo is owned by Ford (at least currently). Second my 20 year old $1500.00 Mercedes 190 Diesel with 291,000 get’s 40MPG and it’s not much less in the city. I am not saying that I am against hybrids, I think there could be potential if engineered properly but, the Yaris is a Yard of crap—and it's ugly. I would consider buying one if it was cost effective, but it’s not. If that escape had a small Diesel it would undoubtedly push 35, if not 40+. On top of that you wouldn’t need expensive complicated and toxic mechanical & electrical systems. I am pro diesel; I am also for public transportation and riding my bike. I think if one were to ever make a hybrid, they should start by having it electric first and petro-fuel second, possibly with a gasoline or diesel generation system. Just my thoughts... | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 94 Registered: 04-2007 |
The Chevy Aveo and 07' Focus look better than the Yaris (and the current focus and Aveo arent real lookers anyway). It's truly sad that some people would call their honda an american car because it's made in Ohio. Mazda I would call a 1/2 American car since 38% of it's profits goes direct to Ford. SALUD | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1129 Registered: 02-2006 |
To play devil's advocate, let's consider the Honda Accord vs. the Ford Fusion. The "working man" here in Detroit SHOULD buy the Fusion right, since it's American? Well, that depends. Where are the working men that built each car? Honda employs workers in Kentucky (I think...or Ohio) to build the Accord. Ford employs workers in Mexico to build the Fusion. Neither would be union, of course. What's more important, where the profit stays or where the jobs go? It's not black and white anymore. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1867 Registered: 10-2003 |
The Aveo and Focus do NOT look better than the Yaris, IMO. (Especially that Daewoo Aveo, which is gawd-awful-butt-ugly.) Everyone has their own opinion about styling anyway. The fact is that, with gas above $3 per gallon (and on its way to $5 per gallon within about 18-24 months), styling does not matter anymore. What matters first and foremost is total cost of ownership (figure in the initial purchase price as well as projected fuel, maintenance, and insurance costs) and mine is pretty damn low, thank you very much. Jd, I don't know what article you saw on the Yaris, but I know that owner satisfaction is very high with the vehicle. Build quality is very, very good (NOT like an Aveo). The more I drive it, the more I like it. True, when you look at cars strictly from a cost perspective it takes some of the romance out of the automobile, but that's the world we live in today. Awwww, so sorry. The Aveo and Focus don't even get 30 mpg in the city. As I've said before, that's absolutely piss-poor for a 21st-century compact/subcompact. The Escape Hybrid gets decent mileage for an SUV, but the purchase price is high. Why should I have to pay $25-30K to get good mileage? THAT'S my point. Detroit still needs to do better. Improve or become extinct. | ||
Beatsworking Member Username: Beatsworking Post Number: 73 Registered: 08-2004 |
Wow. I've heard the complete opposite about the Yaris. Two engineer friends (one, a cousin actually) have done testing on the Yaris for work and told me it was a complete piece of shit. I don't know WHAT about it makes it a piece of shit, but they seem to think that its a lemon and having lots of problems. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1872 Registered: 10-2003 |
No problems with mine at all. It's interesting what your engineer friends say... because the Yaris platform is basically an improved Echo, which was one of the most reliable, durable cars ever built by Toyota. | ||
Beatsworking Member Username: Beatsworking Post Number: 74 Registered: 08-2004 |
I was surprised too... Perhaps Toyota is slipping a little, as evidenced by their dropping rankings in the JD Power initial quality study. Again, it wasn't a very detailed analysis I heard. Just a comment with no meat to back it up. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 122 Registered: 02-2004 |
^That's great but my point is we were more ahead of our time in the 1980's than we are now. You could buy all kinds of fuel efficient cars then, i.e. Ford made an Escort Diesel that not many people even knew about that averaged 5?MPG (68hwy, 46city) in the early 80's. THIS IS CRAP. It has been a quarter century and we are now just starting to compete with what cars of the 80's were doing. AND the cars then were much less complicated. http://web.mac.com/rgshomo/iWeb/Biodiesel%20Escort%20Project/History/History.html  | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 383 Registered: 07-2004 |
I hate the "the profits stay in the USA" argument! So it's the profit and salary of the executives that means most to you? Take Nissan...do the profit sharing checks the thousand-plus employees of the Farmington Hills technical center NOT stay in the USA (and the local economy)? How about Toyota's profits benefiting the economy of Ann Arbor? Profits from selling foreign-branded cars go to American dealerships too... So as long as Rick Wagoner, Bob Lutz, William Clay Ford and Alan Mullaly get paid millions - at least their profits stay in the US. Or do they vacation in Europe in their Italian-made suits while they lay off thousands back home in the States? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1873 Registered: 10-2003 |
Rfban, I agree with you about the small gas-miser cars of the '80s. Why don't we have cars like that now, albeit with better durability? Those machines were getting 50-plus mpg 20 years ago! What happened? | ||
Beatsworking Member Username: Beatsworking Post Number: 75 Registered: 08-2004 |
Rfban- I agree. And it seems as though the US automakers DO offer more fuel efficient options in other countries, but apparently believe all Americans still want big ass boats. Why is that? | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 123 Registered: 02-2004 |
^I DON'T KNOW. I still feel tension when I look at that sticker and see 68MPG. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 449 Registered: 05-2006 |
Rfban-You are forgetting an important piece of the diesel puzzle. Sure, those old cars like the one you drive got better mileage, but did they meet today's stringent emission requirements? DCX recently had a diesel version of the Liberty. It was quite well received but was cancelled when the emission standards were raised. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 994 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Those machines were getting 50-plus mpg 20 years ago! What happened?" Emission control strangled horsepower. In order to get horsepower back up, but still pass emissions, engines got more complicated. By getting more complicated, they became less efficient. They may have gotten good gas mileage, but they did so while belching black exhaust into the air. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 995 Registered: 10-2003 |
Damnit, Wash_man beat me. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 450 Registered: 05-2006 |
Johnlodge, you added important points as well. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 124 Registered: 02-2004 |
Sulfur is low now. Biodiesel is available + adds lubricity to the sulfur-less petro-diesel and creates less if not any smoke. -Non-Toxic | ||
Detroithabitater Member Username: Detroithabitater Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2006 |
...from a Ford engineer/Detroiter that worked on the '08 escape, thanks! I think you'll love it. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 451 Registered: 05-2006 |
More support for my theory (and Johnlodge's)...This article states that the now defunct 2005 Jeep Liberty was 60% cleaner than the diesels of the '80's. Yet it still didn't make it to the '07 model year because of emissions. http://www.aicautosite.com/rev iews/2005-jeep-liberty-diesel. asp | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 125 Registered: 02-2004 |
"While more than 1,000 petroleum distributors carry the low-sulfur diesel fuel and some 300 filling stations retail various blends of biodiesel, most gas pumps dispense diesel that “burns dirty.” Skewed? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 997 Registered: 10-2003 |
How is that skewed? Basically they are saying until more stations actually carry this fuel, it doesn't really do anybody any good. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 218 Registered: 05-2006 |
I am really happy to see that Ford quality has improved. My last cars have been Toyotas but I will look carefully at a Ford the next time around. I do wish they would build a small hybrid, though... | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote:To you maybe. Styling and other characteristics still matter to me. More than mileage even. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 126 Registered: 02-2004 |
I have not seen one station that doesn't carry low-sulfur Diesel since October 16, 2006. Also, Ultra-Low sulfur diesel (below 15ppm) will be in use for model year 2007?? http://www.chevron.com/product s/prodserv/fuels/diesel/ulsd.s html | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2682 Registered: 10-2003 |
The problem with Diesel isn't just the sulfer. It's the Nitrous Oxide emissions that are generated when you burn petroleum based diesel. As part of the Tier 2 EPA regulations that go into effect in 2009, none of those old diesels will meet the new specs. Removing the sulfer helps with other particulate formation and protects the new emission systems, but doesn't cure the NOx problem. All previous versions of the Diesel engine have been made obsolete by the EPA. Starting next year we will see new diesels designed to generate far fewer NOx particles. The DCX Blutec engine will be the first to hit the market. It's been announced for the Jeep, Grand Cherokee. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1001 Registered: 10-2003 |
"The fact is that, with gas above $3 per gallon, styling does not matter anymore. To you maybe. Styling and other characteristics still matter to me. More than mileage even." I used to care a lot more about styling. Guess I'm getting older. Now I just want safe, affordable, good mileage, and some cargo capacity. Yep, getting old! LOL | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1622 Registered: 01-2005 |
For what it's worth, my new Escape was built in Kansas City, MO. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 452 Registered: 05-2006 |
"Starting next year we will see new diesels designed to generate far fewer NOx particles. The DCX Blutec engine will be the first to hit the market. It's been announced for the Jeep, Grand Cherokee." I know an Engineer (DCX) that drove one of these Jeeps on a 300 mile trip. He told me that it was very quiet, smooth running, and didn't have that awful diesel smell. He didn't even know it was a diesel. To prove his point, he then told me how he stopped at a gas station and filled it up with regular unleaded! He made it a mile down the road before it died. He had to get the tank drained, replaced some engine parts and he drove it back to Detroit. He's not proud of that mistake, but his point in telling me the embarassing story was how great the engine is. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 127 Registered: 02-2004 |
I understand all of this NOx & particulate matter bla bla bla, however, why then is it "okay" to have a gasoline based guzzling whatever when the Diesel almost always provide at least 1/3 if not 1/2 more fuel efficiency. Shouldn’t this be put into the equation? On top of that why then is it okay to have all of the shipping industry run on diesel? After all we are all behind that NOx breathing semi, aren’t we? Seems there are no controls on the rigs (I could be wrong)? Why don’t we use more freight trains which are by far more efficient, don’t ruin roads, and the tracks last for centuries. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1004 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Why don’t we use more freight trains which are by far more efficient, don’t ruin roads, and the tracks last for centuries." I think because of sprawl. Trains were more feasable when industry and retail was located near the tracks. Now product needs to go all over the place, and I don't think it's feasible to build track all over the place. So you rail it to a shipping center, then load it on trucks for the rest of the ride. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 128 Registered: 02-2004 |
Good point Johnlodge, It looks like we have finally come 360 in this conversation. I agree 100%, sprawl is the reason. It is our way of life that is the real inefficiency—the transportation we have is just a repercussion. | ||
Craggy Member Username: Craggy Post Number: 255 Registered: 10-2003 |
Why are we even comparing a Yaris to an escape? Two different vehicles with different purposes. Have fun putting that family of four in your Yaris and going on vacation. I'm not knocking your choice. But a Yaris simply doesn't work for everyone. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1876 Registered: 10-2003 |
Craggy, I'm not really comparing the two. My point, as I stated above, is that you have to spend over $25K to get an American vehicle with a combined (city/hwy) mileage rating that approaches 35 mpg (hybrid or non-hybrid). That's too much for me (and a lot of other people) to spend on a vehicle. Why should I have to ante up for an expensive vehicle if I want to buy American and still get about 35 mpg? Where are the modern-day Henry Fords when we need them? If Henry were alive today, he would build a basic, versatile, durable vehicle that gets 40 mpg and costs well under $20K to purchase. And he'd sell a zillion of them. (I wouldn't care if it only came in black, either.) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1008 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Craggy, I'm not really comparing the two. My point, as I stated above, is that you have to spend over $25K to get an American vehicle with a combined (city/hwy) mileage rating that approaches 35 mpg (hybrid or non-hybrid). " Fury, where are you getting this from? You do not have to spend that much to buy an American car with 35mpg. My Cobalt gets that, and it didn't cost that much. If you want a small American SUV that gets 35 mpg, maybe you have to pay that much. But how much is a small Toyota SUV that gets 35mpg? In a way, you ARE comparing the SUV with the Yaris. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6179 Registered: 02-2004 |
Sknutson, GOOD FOR YOU! Now you can tell those who have foreign cars not to park on your driveway. For American driveways is for American cars only. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1010 Registered: 10-2003 |
Chevy Malibu, starts at $17,800, gets comb. 34 mpg city/hwy. Chevy Aveo5, starts at $10,560, gets 25/37 city/hwy. Ford Focus, starts at $13,715, gets 27/37 city/hwy Sure doesn't look like you have to pay $25k to get decent mileage from an American car to me. Not sure where you've been looking. (Message edited by johnlodge on July 09, 2007) | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 168 Registered: 06-2007 |
As per FuelEconomy.gov states on their web site, the Ford Escape Hybrid FWD get's about 30MPG, the Hybrid 4WD gets 27MPG. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1880 Registered: 10-2003 |
Johnlodge, your Cobalt gets 35 mpg in combined city/highway driving? (Not in mostly highway driving?) If it really does, that's the first Cobalt I've ever heard of that can achieve that kind of mpg. Aveos and Focuses DO NOT get anywhere near 35 real-world mpg. (Again, EPA highway ratings are IRRELEVANT!!! Those upper ratings are only useful as selling points for car salesmen! NOBODY achieves those numbers in combined city/highway driving!) Realistically with those cars, you're going to get 25-28, a far cry from 35 or even 30. (That's right, 28 mpg is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH.) As for the Malibu, the EPA estimates are 24/34. So it, again, gets only about 28-29 mpg, real-world. Pretty mediocre. | ||
Spitcoff Member Username: Spitcoff Post Number: 115 Registered: 03-2004 |
i still cant figure out why they make a 4WD Escape its not an off road vehicle and FWD is fine in the winter I guess its just to get more money out of stupid people | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 453 Registered: 05-2006 |
"Chevy Malibu, starts at $17,800, gets comb. 34 mpg city/hwy. Chevy Aveo5, starts at $10,560, gets 25/37 city/hwy. Ford Focus, starts at $13,715, gets 27/37 city/hwy Sure doesn't look like you have to pay $25k to get decent mileage from an American car to me. Not sure where you've been looking" The Aveo is a Korean car with a Chevy badge. An import in my book. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 392 Registered: 02-2006 |
i drive a 2000 focus. my second one and i love it. i really think that is the model they need to offer a hybrid option on. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 130 Registered: 02-2004 |
Not to be redundant, but I would buy it if they offered it in a diesel. Check out the Focus in the UK--Many styles and engines to choose from. I particularly like the focus convertable they have there. Stylish... www.ford.uk.co | ||
Hectop99 Member Username: Hectop99 Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2006 |
Ford will be selling a hybrid version of the Fusion & Milan next year. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 131 Registered: 02-2004 |
sorry, www.ford.co.uk | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 806 Registered: 01-2007 |
All of this makes me wonder: Why doesn't Detroit offer a small displacement diesel? This would satisfy a need for us who could care less about the drawbacks; noise, smell, acceleration, and cold starting in favor of fuel economy. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1294 Registered: 12-2003 |
"Why should I have to ante up for an expensive vehicle if I want to buy American and still get about 35 mpg?" Fury, this isn't true. My all wheel drive Vibe gets 30 miles per gallon, and that's from me keeping track, not the EPA estimate. Thus the non-all wheel drive, base model front wheel drive Vibe would do even better. You definitely can get a non-decked out Vibe for under 25K. The MSRP is $16,650. You just wanted to buy Japanese and you did, fine. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1630 Registered: 02-2007 |
You brought thwe worst of the 2 Americans brands. At least your GM car had a better chance of being made in Detroit. Plus, most Car salesmen and Repairmen prefer GM Parts over Ford Parts. Only Ford car still made in METRO Detroit is the F-150s. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2580 Registered: 12-2005 |
http://www.ricecop.com/ | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 454 Registered: 05-2006 |
"You definitely can get a non-decked out Vibe for under 25K. The MSRP is $16,650. You just wanted to buy Japanese and you did, fine." Isn't the Vibe built in a Toyota plant next to the Matrix? | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 969 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: Yes, in Fremont, California by NUMMI (New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc), a joint venture between General Motors and Toyota. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 599 Registered: 05-2006 |
Only Ford car still made in METRO Detroit is the F-150s. Funny, my 2006 Focus was built in Wayne, guess that's not metro Detroit anymore. BTW, I average 31 mpg each week driving around 300 miles for work. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1295 Registered: 12-2003 |
NUMMI is a joint venture plant owned by GM and Toyota, it's not a Toyota plant. I have family who did contract work there. The Vibe's engine is a Toyota, yes. The body and design is Pontiac. I wanted to buy a Ford Escape -- congrats, Sknutson -- but it was just too pricey. I got a car with a GM nameplate where the profits go to GM, with good gas mileage, so I'm happy for now. I want an Escape like vehicle next time, either made by GM or Ford, although I think hybrid technology will be obsolete soon ... | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1631 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Funny, my 2006 Focus was built in Wayne, guess that's not metro Detroit anymore." I wasn't talking about ALL of them and Wayne is technically in Metro Detroit. I was speaking of the River Rouge Plant. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1296 Registered: 12-2003 |
p.s. No. 1 clue that it isn't a Toyota plant: the NUMMI plant is UAW. (A requirement, for me to buy a car). | ||
Softailrider Member Username: Softailrider Post Number: 54 Registered: 02-2007 |
You got to consider long term reliabilty in addition to gas mileage . If you're laying out 15 - 20 K for a vehicle I would think that several years of trouble free driving is as important as gas mileage . if you're spending 300.00 every few months for car repairs , that can buy a lot of gas . As far as I'm concerned give me a car , that provides an enjoyable ownership experience and good gas mileage . | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1117 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mustang, F-150, Focus. 3 Fords made in Metro Detroit. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2683 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have a 2001 Escape with 148,000 miles on it. It still runs great. I bought it new. Had to have the engine controller flashed, but no other major issues. It's a 4wd 6Cyl. It still routinely gets 21 MPG. Does a great job pulling my 15' boat. I hope yours is as good as mine. | ||
Detroithabitater Member Username: Detroithabitater Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2006 |
When people think of automotive jobs they often think of the factories. But you have to remember that Ford has tens of thousands of employees in Dearborn/Allen Park working on design, engineering, finance, credit, HR, manufacturing, prototyping etc...by far more people then all of it's plants combined. | ||
Mike Member Username: Mike Post Number: 947 Registered: 11-2003 |
my sweedish saab 9-3 (shares parts and platform with g6, malibu, saturn, opel, vauxhall) gets about 23 city for me. and that engine is very enjoyble. epa rates it at 21, and i abuse that turbo. i was sick of the gm parts bin, hated the interior materials but still wanted to support a us company, especially one that supports detroit. do i went with saab. where the profits go does matter, just look at gm. does toyota invest in the US to the effect that gm does? its easy to forget how far GM/Ford are involoved in the US economy... parts, labor, diagnostics, tech support, advertising, construction, the list goes on. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 174 Registered: 06-2007 |
That Ford Escape is probably less american made then then a Honda Civic that's made in Ohio. Well that's like comparing apples to oranges, but you probably get what I am trying to say, let's face some facts here...most american car's really aren't american made anymore. They might be assembled here in the good old US, but they aren't built here. Yeah the money goes back to the company, but the fact is that part of the money is spent in areas not america. I know the civic I mentioned was built in Ohio...I think everyone should just stop griping about what car is built where. The Saturn Vue shared an engine with Honda. To the person who owns the Saab, have you seen the Saab suv...that looks similar to the Chevy Trailblazer & GMC Envoy? Yeah it's the same thing as those 2 just with diffrent body cladding and interior and they just slapped the Saab name badge on it and called it a Saab. The point of the fact is what I am trying to say is not everything is american or non american vehicles these days. Ohhh and about the UAW, it's time has come and passed, time to get rid of it. Or make some serious changes to it. How can they pay some of these plant works what they pay them and they do little work, I have a friend who works at the Chrysler plant in Sterling Heights and he's told me about the 20 or more cig breaks some of the workers take a day. | ||
Cushkid Member Username: Cushkid Post Number: 82 Registered: 08-2005 |
Dont forget about the Navigator/Expedition made in Wayne At Michigan truck plant. I always love the Accord Fusion Debate. Yes the fusion is made in Mexico by Members of a mexican union. Yes thats right a mexican union. Other than that all the rest of the Ford cars sold in the US are Assembled in the US or Canada. Name a US Ford Ill tell you where its built. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1639 Registered: 02-2007 |
"ont forget about the Navigator/Expedition made in Wayne At Michigan truck plant." Expedition is no longer Made. I'm not so sure about the Mustang either. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1640 Registered: 02-2007 |
Oh yeah, I see. It's still made, but with new designs, like in reincarnated forms. | ||
Cushkid Member Username: Cushkid Post Number: 83 Registered: 08-2005 |
Excursion is no longer made, Expedition is still alive and strong. Mustang is still coming off the line in Flat Rock | ||
Craggy Member Username: Craggy Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2003 |
Fury... I owned a Pontiac Vibe. I got well over 30 MPG in combined city/highway driving. On long trips, I got about 36 MPG...and had room to put a bunch of stuff in there. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 748 Registered: 01-2004 |
CPU4346, Where are the HQ's of GM, Ford and the Chrysler division of Daimler? No such thing as American huh? How about my backyard? | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 95 Registered: 04-2007 |
I'd put my 98' Escort up against ANY ONES Yaris, Civic or any import. Tested and true for 9 years. There's something called the "trickle down effect". The money you pay for a Ford goes to the company rich people and workers, most if not all of whome live in the US. Then they spend that money in the US, thus creating a cycle. When you send your money to Japan you break the cycle, weaken the economy, and lose American jobs. Oh, FORD ESCORTS OWN! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =JLLOVFI8qZw | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 567 Registered: 08-2006 |
O.K.... First off, Pontiac Vibe = Toyota matrix Aveo = korean Anything with GEO nameplate = Suzuki Ford focus = Uber-MEGA turd that makes me want to punch a baby. RFban- I'm glad you got lucky. You probably purchased this car AFTER some poor sap sunk $5,000 worth of high mileage repairs into those expensive and hard to find mercedes parts. For example, I happen to know that 1 glowplug and a starter will run you about $300 in parts alone. I can buy a whole new front end for my grand am with that much. I'm talking all new struts,ball joints, and brakes. As for these "holy grails" of the '80s unless you have actually driven one your argument is rendered moot. Much as these advertisements went unnoticed to the general public so did their actual performance. I'm sure you remember the 350 olds diesel fiasco. The thing was touted to get 30+ mpg but the reality was far different. Since they just slapped a diesel top end on 350 gas motor the thing was doomed from the get go. It actually got less power than a 231ci v-6 with a 2 barrel. 80hp 120ft/lbs vs 110hp with 140?ft/lbs. It rattled itself to pieces and only got about 10mpg vs 15mpg for the six. | ||
Swimmaven Member Username: Swimmaven Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2007 |
I wish Ford made a hybrid MUSTANG. I still need miles of style. | ||
Craggy Member Username: Craggy Post Number: 258 Registered: 10-2003 |
Beavis. You are incorrect. The Geo Metro was a suzuki, while the Geo Prizm was a GM/Toyota joint venture, built at NUMMI. The Matrix/Vibe were jointly created by GM and Toyota. Toyota engine, GM electronics. The Vibe is built at the NUMMI plant in California, while the Matrix is built in Ontario. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1117 Registered: 04-2006 |
Ford Explorer = Mazda Navajo Mercury Villager = Nissan Quest (Message edited by iheartthed on July 10, 2007) | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 223 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote: Trickle down doesn't work. Rich people don't spend their money like the middle class do. They horde it. Even if they spend it, who says they won't spend it on the French Riviera or on foreign sports cars? | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 254 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote:Not according to Fury...style doesn't matter to anyone. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2004 |
Well Beavis you sure know what you are talking about. I am glad this came up actually, you are right, If it weren’t for those unreliable GM Diesels they may have actually had a chance in this country. As for parts? It’s true if you plan on owning a car with 300,000 miles you need to budget for repairs, but if you are paying $300.00 for a glow plug or a starter you are being taken for a ride. http://motors.search.ebay.com/ ?from=R40&satitle=190d+starter http://motors.search.ebay.com/ search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&s brftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&mp pfqy=190d+glow+plug&mppfqy=190 d+glow+plug&mppfqy=mercedes+gl ow+plugs&satitle=mercedes+glow +plugs&sacat=6000%26catref%3DC 6&bs=Search&fmmk=&fmmd=&fylo=& fyhi=&mppfqy=mercedes+glow+plu g&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=2 00&fpos=48193&sabfmts=1&ftrt=1 &ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop =3%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare &copagenum=1&coentrypage=searc h I shouldn’t need to prove myself, simple research would have told you this. Parts aren’t as expensive as people think especially if you don’t let yourself get had because you pull up in a Mercedes. I think the real question you should be asking is how much are those hybrid parts going to cost in a few years? | ||
Courtney Member Username: Courtney Post Number: 148 Registered: 06-2004 |
Ford really should bring the Mondeo into the US market - especially the diesel versions. It's the only Ford product I've ever actually wanted. My mother still regrets her 2000 Ford Explorer, which has got to be the biggest POS I've seen in a long time. My dad's 2007 Sterling Acterra (headquarters in Redford, built in Ontario) has been a complete nightmare - the only part that hasn't had issues yet has been the Mercedes engine. When my 02 Tahoe (19mpg overall, mostly stop & go driving) dies beyond repair, I will not be a happy camper. | ||
Benjo Member Username: Benjo Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2007 |
My 95 Escort has 158,000 miles on it, most of them stop and go delivering pizzas, and it gets 30-32 mpg in the city and 35-37.5 mpg on the highway. | ||
Classico Member Username: Classico Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2005 |
Beavis needs to loosen the reigns a little on his self-righteousness me thinks...... | ||
Cushkid Member Username: Cushkid Post Number: 84 Registered: 08-2005 |
The Mondeo was here it was called the Contour, It didn't sell. I think Ford is in better shape with the Fusion midsize. (Message edited by cushkid on July 10, 2007) | ||
Michigansheik Member Username: Michigansheik Post Number: 215 Registered: 09-2005 |
the corolla is toyota's most reliable product and has been for 30 years. the info i've heard on the yaris isn't that it's a piece of shit but not yet a toyota, take that for whatever its worth. i think its good that we're having a discussion here about cars and their fuel economy. while hybrids are good, the switch to new blue diesel technology will reduce their emissions to near gasoline levels, making their huge improvement in mileage more than offset the slight increase in pollution not to mention that diesel engines last forever, well maybe not the turbo charger. on that note, saab, vw and subaru's small turbo gas engines are efficient and powerful so you almost have the best of both. but then again the new nissan altima gets 34 highway. nope i didn't make a point. | ||
Swimmaven Member Username: Swimmaven Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2007 |
quote: I wish Ford made a hybrid MUSTANG. I still need miles of style. Not according to Fury...style doesn't matter to anyone. dnvn522, who or what is Fury? | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 135 Registered: 02-2004 |
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 The fact is that, with gas above $3 per gallon (and on its way to $5 per gallon within about 18-24 months), styling does not matter anymore. | ||
Lmr Member Username: Lmr Post Number: 67 Registered: 03-2007 |
Regarding sknutson's original post and the comment about not shipping enough of the right kind of vehicles to dealers (not many hybrid Escapes in California), that seems to be a problem just about everywhere but Detroit. I think the dealers control that inventory so tightly in order to be able to charge top dollar. Last year at Labor Day my husband and I looked at a Ford Freestyle at a dealer in Wyoming (the state). The dealer wanted $23,500 for a FWD 2005 Freestyle SEL with cloth seating. They didn't have even one 2006 or 2007 Freestyle on the lot. The salesman said they don't get new ones anymore...I figured out why should they when they are charging new price for used! In November (2 months later) we went to a funeral in Michigan and looked at a 2005 AWD Freestyle limited with all leather seating for $20,500 at a dealer in Canton, Michigan. We haven't bought yet, we decided to wait until the Edge and Taurus X came out and try those. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 177 Registered: 06-2007 |
Buy something more efficent... Ughhh here I go...rant time.... Yeah most those "American" built cars...aren't built here, more like assembled here. The Ford Fusion shares parts with Mazda & Volvo...yeah really american car there, yes it's a real nice car. But let's face some facts here. Most of the un-called imports that some folk here wanna rant & whine & say that doesn't support american economy...Hello the damn Hondas & Toyotas built in America, contain more American Parts then most of the big 3's vehicles. My dad owned a suburban a few yrs back, I would say 80% of that vehicle was not american made. Yeah let's here it for the big 3...Go' Outsourcing!!!! At least Honda & Toyota and some other manufactuers hire american people and supply them with...JOBS!!! Unlike whats happening here with the big 3. You think they care about this area anymore, hell noooooo! They care about the all mighty dollar....it's all about now being more competitive and being more streamlined....while sending your jobs overseas. One major reason they have done this is the UAW, and there is some other reason...but im not going into full detail...and say what you might about that...your dollar at least goes to an American Company...at least if I buy a Honda or whatever at least I am supporting an American Autoworker....not someone from a foregin country who get's paid like 2 dollars a day. Like I said, you mighty just want to pop the hood on your vehicle and take a closer look, speaking of vehicles...I really love it when I see people driving a Harley and saying,"I own and American Bike....hahahaha...nothing against bikers...just look and research a little more. | ||
Detroithabitater Member Username: Detroithabitater Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2006 |
the D&R of a vehicle supports more jobs (100% in Metro Detroit) then the assembly plant. | ||
Courtney Member Username: Courtney Post Number: 150 Registered: 06-2004 |
The Mondeo and the Contour may have been the "same", but even totally throwing out the styling of the Mondeo since the last Contour in 2000, the two were absolutely NO comparison. The Mondeo had different exterior and interior styling (the interior looked far better than the Contour, which I always thought looked ultra cheap), not to mention the fact that it was available with a turbo diesel. Even without a diesel engine, I would have considered a Mondeo but wouldn't have ever considered a Contour. At least Ford seems to be getting a clue with the Fusion, which ironically has more parts in common with the Mondeo than the Contour/Mondeo had. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 181 Registered: 06-2007 |
Half those D&R people your talking about need to get smack in the back of the head & their salaries cut. Time to stop developing land yachts and focus more on quality, fuel economy and moving foward with some of the new technology thats out there. I was at the autoshow and was laughing at them when they announced their SUV's are going to get more efficent...I told someone there, what about as efficent as a 1/2 ton brick going 50mph, they laughed there ass off. Spare me the details folks...suv's now-a-days are a lost cause. I know some people can't afford to go and just drop money on a new vehicle. Try and do something else, why not buy a smaller used vehicle that gets good or great MPG for back and forth to work...instead of firing up the beast of a land yacht that get's 12 to 18 mpg...Why do you think the other major auto companies are trouncing all over the big 3 now...I know theirs some dumb schmuck who works on designing at hummer and is probably thinking of making a bigger one....for people with personal issues because their gas sucker isn't big enough and not trendy enough...Even if I won the lotto I still wouldn't buy a single SUV from any of them. Ughhh im ranting & raving now...must be my caffine from my coffee. All I am trying to say now is be a little more mindfull when driving, Ive known people have heard this before...if you need to go to buy something, make sure while your out to use that time to do whatever else you need to do while your out driving. | ||
Mattric43 Member Username: Mattric43 Post Number: 143 Registered: 03-2006 |
What defines Quality? Strictly fuel efficiency? I know it's not styling. Fury made that clear. I own a Envoy and I bought it knowing I would pay a little more in gas but I bought it for a safety standpoint. The aveo and Yari may have better fuel efficiency but if I get in a car accident with a semi. I will put my money on a better chance of survival in my envoy than the smaller hybrids. That is what I look at as quality. A safer vehicle to transport my family in. Oh and Congrats on your purchase Sknutson hope you enjoy it!! (Message edited by Mattric43 on July 12, 2007) | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 184 Registered: 06-2007 |
LOL....survivability???? Roll-over SUV...goodboy. you don't need a land yacht for safety...there's some car's out there that have real good saftey ratings...I see you want a false sense of security. Im not saying buy a Aveo or a Yaris or Focus...Ever see that website FUH2.com? Do you really need that SUV to drive back and forth to work...gotta love those rising gas prices. | ||
Lmr Member Username: Lmr Post Number: 68 Registered: 03-2007 |
Those little cars are wonderful for going back and forth to work but they are awful for taking trips or hauling anything in. I've been driving those little fuel efficient cars since long before they were "trendy"...starting with a 1971 Volkswagen Beetle up to my current 2002 Saturn SL1 and while they are terrific for driving myself to work and back, for a family of 3 plus our dog to go anywhere or to bring home any bulky items they are really bad. That's why we're looking at the Freestyle or Edge. I don't see the need for crossovers/suvs/pickups going away. | ||
Mattric43 Member Username: Mattric43 Post Number: 145 Registered: 03-2006 |
Yes if you drive like a frickin moron, taking turns at 30mph, you have the chance of rolling over. If you don't want to roll your car over then don't drive like an idiot. I don't. As far as do I need to drive my land yacht to drive back and forth to work? I don't need to but I choose to and besides I work 12 minutes from home. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1885 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mattric, glad you're happy with your choice. But safety isn't strictly about having cubic yards of metal and plastic surrounding you in the event of a crash. It's also about designed-in "crumple zones," side airbags, anti-lock brakes, choosing to wear one's seat belts, AND... most important... quick thinking and accident avoidance by the driver. In most cases, a small car with nimbler handling is actually better at avoiding accidents than a large SUV with a mushy suspension and sluggish steering. I figured that if I was going to get a small car, I'd get every available safety option. So I got the side curtain airbags (in addition to the standard front airbags) and anti-lock brakes, and added a dealer-installed rear anti-sway bar too. True, I could still get crushed by an out-of-control semi, but I refuse to live in fear of something like that happening. |
