  Monahan568 Member Username: Monahan568 Post Number: 173 Registered: 04-2004 |
dose any one think that the detroit hotel market is going to crash in the future when all 3 casino's ope n we will be adding 1200 new rooms this dose not include the new rooms at the BC and FS development. If the average daily rate for hotels in the city right now is say $180 per night if we double the size of the market the rate would be cut in half meaning the new rates would be around $90 a night and hotels can not function with such little revenue (Message edited by monahan568 on August 25, 2007) | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 220 Registered: 10-2006 |
the plan was with more rooms means more conventions comming to town more rooms downtown means more people shopping and eating out when they stay in Detroit rather in Troy or Southfield | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 767 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think the market WILL suffer with the incredible flood of rooms. There won't even be enough conventions to fill the rooms on most nights during the year. I'm just glad the casinos didn't have to build 800 room hotels each, which was originally planned. That would have been disasterous for the other downtown hotels. I think a more fair and reasonable number would have been 200-250 rooms hotels for each casino. | ||
Chow Member Username: Chow Post Number: 407 Registered: 10-2003 |
wow, everyone is an expert. detroit is re-branding itself as an entertainment destination and is currently under served. how do i know this? several big name corporations are opening hotels downtown. i would imagine the real experts have market data as well as short term and long term returns. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 463 Registered: 02-2006 |
I think different Mind_, Detroit needs more rooms. It really need more rooms even after the new ones open. Detroit should have around 12,000 to 15,000 rooms from New Center to Downtown. <313> | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 38 Registered: 07-2007 |
more rooms = more potential more capacity = more convention business.. yadaydayda build rooms and they will come! everyone should be ecstatic about more hotel rooms, one of the 1st signs of growth | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3088 Registered: 10-2003 |
Of course everyone should be ecstatic! Just ask Cleveland how well their tourist and convention business is doing since they overbuilt their hotel market ten years ago. Detroit - never learns a damned lesson. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 305 Registered: 09-2006 |
Cleveland did overbuild,, however they overestimated their potential as a business/entertainement center. Detroit may have possibly done the same but its probable they will not suffer as badly due to the fact that three of these large hotels are connected to casinos which have a large built in audience. These casinos at this stage of the game have studied their potential and know they can fill them satisfactorily, If you add in new conventions (many of which are already booked for Detroit in the next 3 years) the Detroit situation should likely be better. Cleveland has no casinos to fall upon,, The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and theaters will not fill the large capacity of rooms built there consistently | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5188 Registered: 08-2004 |
It's also possible that with the plethora of suburban hotels, that they (suburban instead of Detroit hotels) may go under. After all many folks were afraid of Detroit (even folks going to conventions and doing business there) and stayed at suburban hotels. With more going on downtown, more folks will likely visit, and stay at a Detroit hotel instead of a suburban one. However, I'm not hoping for the demise of ANY metro hotels. Also as has been noted, the Casino hotels will pretty much have their own clientele (although they will also go after the business crowd). MGM Grand even has contingency plans to add additional hotel rooms (making the hotel footprint "Y" shaped instead of "(" shaped). | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1533 Registered: 10-2006 |
Did we already forget about these news stories on this subject? "Convention hotel booking up 36% from 2005" http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/dmcvb9007.aspx or this one? "The casinos will have no problems filling up their rooms," Fantini said. http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap /2007/08/13/ap4014603.html | ||
Dave Member Username: Dave Post Number: 161 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm with Gistok on this one. If anybody gets hurt it's going to be the suburban motels. If you wanted to stay right downtown, basically you've had four expensive choices for years. dave | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 293 Registered: 01-2006 |
Anyone who knows anything about how casinos operate knows that they comp away most of their rooms. They only sell large blocks for conventions or really big events. They should have no problem keeping those rooms full and keeping people in the D. | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 269 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote:Are they adding any cheaper ones? I looked into getting a room there on a weeknight, and the cheapest one was $399. Ouch. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2741 Registered: 10-2003 |
I doubt they will add any cheaper ones. If they are expecting the majority of their rooms to be comps, they will keep the advertised rate high. When they Use comp wooden nickels they charge high rates to get those wooden nickels out of the hands of the patrons. Ever notice the high prices charged in the casino's restaurants. This is to soak up those comps faster. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5199 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the insight Ndavies... that begs another question. Greektown Casino allows other (non Papas-Gatzaros) Greektwon establishments to use Greektown Casino comps. Do either MGM or MotorCity allow using comps at locations besides their own Casinos? I mean can (for example) MotorCity comps be used at the Fox Theatre (or restaurants within the Fox Building) or at Olympia sponsored locations? Or are their comps allowed strictly only within their casinos? | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 270 Registered: 11-2004 |
Interesting. Well I guess you can throw out the theory that all the new casino hotel rooms will forcibly drop other downtown room prices. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2743 Registered: 10-2003 |
The casino hotels are their own market segment, will be high end and will be targeted directly at regional event stays, a market that does not use Detroit right except for the Ren Cen. The only danger here is that Ren Cen might see event bookings drop. They will not poach folks from the Hilton Garden Inn. They may poach from Atheneum, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Atheneum move to a more upscale boutique hotel approach to compete The Book Cadillac has no high end market competition in the downtown. Its nearest competition will be the Townsend and Ritz Carlton and the Ritz is not in a downtown and the Townsend does not have the same banquet and event facilities. There are no historic hotels in metro Detroit, other than the Dearborn Inn, and that will not compete with the BC in luxury. So assuming the BC will not work assumes that luxury historic hotels do not work in metro Detroit. The Holiday Inn Express will not lose customers to the Book Cadillac. You will not over saturate a market segment when you build one property to fill a glaringly missing market segment. The Pick Fort Shelby will be a business suites hotel, again a type of hotel that does not exist in the downtown market. They will likely not cannibalize from the HIE or from Hilton Garden Inn as they typically have different guests, but it will cannibalize from suburban properties. There will be travelers doing work downtown that look for this type of property and have to stay in the suburbs and commute in.You will not over saturate a market segment when you build one property to fill a glaringly missing market segment. The mistake Cleveland made was to build multiple properties in the same market segments. Detroit does learn. The real interesting competition will be what happens at the Ponchartrain. If (and that is a BIG IF) the remodel is of good quality and done right, it will impact occupancy at the Marriott Ren-Cen, Marriot Courtyard, HGI and perhaps, depending on where their rates fall, the HEI. However, if booking continue upwards at Cobo, that will offset the repositioning of the Pontch. Recall, its not a new hotel, it is a remodel of a very poor performing hotel. A movement from their pre-remodel occupancy rate of 45% up to 75% will be spread across 3 -4 properties. Not a huge hit. Rumors of a hotel collapse are greatly exaggerated. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3098 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I'm missing something. Cleveland had the Ritz and Renaissance downtown, as well as a Holiday Inn and Sheraton Four Points. Added were: Marriott, Hilton Garden Inn, Wyndham, Hyatt, and Holiday Inn Express. (This doesn't count the Intercontinental at the Cleveland Clinic.) How are these all the same market segment? I guess I'm just curious why so many think there are going to be all kinds of zillionaires rolling through Detroit casinos. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5204 Registered: 08-2004 |
Well I think I am able to answer my own question about Casino comps. From a friend who works at MotorCity, they only comp within the casino. This is also likely for MGM. Greektown on the otherhand allow folks to use their comps at Greektown restaurants, but not Pegasus and Wishbones, since they are owned by Greektown rejected (by the gaming commission background check) owners Jim Papas and Ted Gatzaros. They also own the Atheneum Hotel, which is also forbidden to accept comps. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1945 Registered: 06-2006 |
"I'm missing something." Yep. There was also a Hampton Inn and they also added an Embassy Suites | ||
Cgunn Member Username: Cgunn Post Number: 89 Registered: 01-2004 |
As far as comping casino rooms, that has changed in the gaming industry for years. I'm not saying that they don't comp or discount rooms to high rollers but not like they use to. A lot of people complain about the prices compared to Vegas. They are actually right in line with other higher end properties such at the Wynn, Signature Lofts @ MGM, THEhotel (Mandalay Bay), etc. ...In broadening their customer base, MGM Grand and MotorCity Casino, which is expected to open its luxury hotel on Nov. 1, are following a trend begun about 15 years ago in Las Vegas. Hotel and entertainment complexes there have been shying away from free and discounted rooms to gamblers. Although both Detroit casinos will offer room discounts to high rollers, the emphasis now is to generate revenue and profit from the non-gaming end of the business as well. At the large Las Vegas properties, 60 percent of their revenues come from non-gaming activities, up from 40 percent in 1990. Several casino experts say the MGM and MotorCity likely won't have a problem finding paying customers. "Casinos have discovered there is a market out there for people who are willing to pay top dollar for accommodations, top dollar for show tickets and will spend $12 for a cocktail in a night club," said Frank Fantini, a Delaware-based gaming analyst and editor and publisher of Fantini's Gaming Morning Report. "These customers have become very valuable to casinos. "Today in Las Vegas, when you look at the best properties, the rooms, food and beverage and shows are all big profit centers." Grand Vision: Casino aims for business travelers, conventions | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5212 Registered: 08-2004 |
My buddy who works at MotorCity Casino said that they are shooting for a 5 star rating for their hotel. Does that sound right? I thought that even the Book-Cadillac was going for 4 stars. | ||
Cgunn Member Username: Cgunn Post Number: 90 Registered: 01-2004 |
^I herd the same thing. Also with MGM. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3116 Registered: 10-2003 |
^^^How consistent is that with the existing casino market in Detroit? | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 112 Registered: 10-2006 |
LOL, I hear the ShoreCrest Inn is now going for a 9-star "rating". Dubai's hotel ratings tricks have apparently filtered to Detroit's gambling dens. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 469 Registered: 03-2007 |
you see what has happened to the dayz inn on Jefferson? total makeover. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2049 Registered: 12-2003 |
Casino rooms fluctuate with the time, one week $399, the next $329. I hear the MGM hotel is Sold Out for the month of October. Just looking at the site, these rooms are very nice for that price. LUXURY ROOMS Dream big and live large in our Luxury Guest Rooms. Surround yourself in the world’s finest amenities and feel welcomed, pampered and rejuvenated: * 510 square feet * 300 thread count bed linens with plush down comforters and pillows * Oversized marble shower with dual rainhead fixtures * 24-hour room service * 42-inch plasma television along with a flush-mounted bathroom mirror television, both featuring digital IP TV | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 114 Registered: 10-2006 |
I bet you all those rooms are comped. Casino dens will not generate higher prices than the Townsend. | ||
Cgunn Member Username: Cgunn Post Number: 92 Registered: 01-2004 |
What makes the Townsend so great? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5219 Registered: 08-2004 |
LOL... comments on PBS's British Comedy "Are You Being Served"... Mrs. Slocum: "Just how good is a 1 star hotel?" Captain Peacock: "Let me put it to you this way... there is no such thing as a NO STAR hotel!"  ___________ Actually that hotel in Dubai is 7 stars, supposedly the only one that rates that high. |
