 
Tetsua
Member
Username: Tetsua
Post Number: 1713
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:30 am: |    |
I know morale on Dyes has been low for a while now, but I still thought I'd post my thoughts on the direction of this region, and how it can improve. Don't take any of these thoughts as bashing Detroit, and feel free to add your own.
1. City services are key to retaining residents, and we have none
I’ve lived in the city for most of my life, and can never remember a time when all the street lights in the city were turned on. This coupled with no garbage pick up, and lack of police presence would make you think that city taxes are cheap. Detroit police and other emergency services always seem to be over extended when you call them. Nobody understands that more cops would mean more expenses, however more cops are needed in the city
.
2. Efficient Mass transit with a central destination is key to sustainability of a region, however, at this point it wouldn’t do Detroit city, or region much good right now. Detroit city / region have no clear defined rolls, everyone part of the region is basically fighting to be the downtown. I’m not sure regional transit would really do the Detroit region much good until these lines are defined. Ex. Most people live in OC because it’s cheaper than the city where all the jobs are, but take the train to work in the morning
3. The “leadership” in the city doesn’t give the current business leaders we have warm fuzzy feelings. Imagine how outside business leaders looking in feel about the city / region. We can’t have expansion when you think the people running the city are all idiots. People expect a certain amount of corruption in government however, the corruption we have here is absurd.
4. There are too many municipalities in the region, there should be a central police force. I haven’t crunched the numbers by any means on this one, but I think the region could collectively save money working together. I could be wrong though.
5. Detroit has “anything goes” zoning through out the city. You can have a club, next to an apartment, next to a church, next to a day care. Clubs should be placed in their own district which in the end would honestly make it easier to police. Ex. The club district is on Russell street in Eastern Market, so the cops park on both ends of Russell during club hours. It discourages some nut from acting up, and deters that dude who just goes to the club to fight from ever showing up. Furthermore people enjoy a vibrant club district.
6. The city needs to hand down fines to any business that doesn’t keep the front of their property clean. Folks should be responsible for at least in front of their own property weather it’s residential, or a business on a mile road. It’s a hard sell for new residents, or new businesses to move into Detroit because it seems like a city without pride.
7. Not everyone who left the city for the suburbs is an racist idiot jerk. It would be in Detroit’s best interest to know what drove people from the D into the burbs (or elsewhere) and work to correct this. Over the past few years so many of my friends have left Detroit for the burbs, and other cities all together. Every one of them were degreed individuals, who would have been a great asset to the city.
8. City problems will ultimately effect the region, and ignoring the problems in the city will only ensure the demise of the region as a whole. |
Lodgedodger
Member
Username: Lodgedodger
Post Number: 66
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:47 am: | |
9. City taxes--I'm all for paying my share, but $8K for a less than $100K house is daunting. |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1790
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:51 am: | |
I couldn't agree more, I would also add that the attitudes and mentalities of the citizens in the region dictate a lot. If you think nothing will ever change or you don't have faith in the region, it won't flourish. Negative mind sets are viral and they spread fast and quick, if you don't care those around you will begin to care less and the region goes to shit even more. There are so many elements to what the region needs to address, but I think you addresses most of them above without beating a dead horse. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2729
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:56 am: | |
10. Not Everyone who lives in the city are trashy poor ghetto jerks who don't take care of their properties & business. It would be in the suburb’s best interest to know what caused the D's decline (or elsewhere) and work to correct this. Over the past few years so many of my friends have left the suburbs for the city, and other cities all together. They would prefer to have the urban big city feel, and Detroit offers this. The city has much more to offer than sports & casinos. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2730
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:58 am: | |
Of course, you can't address these issues with rosy glasses on every time. You must also acknowledge the negative aspect of anything around you and work to fix it. It's not all perfect pretty everything will fix itself. |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1921
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:59 am: | |
I disagree with your point about single-use zoning. Other than that, you're right on. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 421
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:01 pm: | |
Tetsua --- you may have unleashed a monster.
This thread is one jab away from becoming an off-topic, jacked debate about nothing. |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1791
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:07 pm: | |
Also people always assume people that leave the city or move to the burbs or out of state are quitters or can't handle it here, racists, sell outs etc. Some people want simple things like clean parks with mowed grass and working features, dependable city services, civic pride, trees in their downtown areas, basic retail, leadership that cares and acts with integrity, a good racial mix of residents and JOBS.
We need to abandon the "I only worry about south of 8 mile- fuck them mentality" and also the "it's panacea north of 8 mile and all is great and wonderful, screw the city mentality" We have to work together and also stop promoting 2nd hand stereotypes and 2nd hand information allowing the virus to spread faster and bigger among co-workers, kids, families, and visitors. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2732
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:10 pm: | |
People also assume people that move into the city from the burbs or elsewhere are complete idiots or don't know what they're getting into. Some people want simple things like density, walkability, inner city hustle & bustle, smaller homes, a knowledge of their neighbors, and for college graduates, to start a a family.
We need to abandon the "I only worry about south of 8 mile- fuck them mentality" and also the "it's panacea north of 8 mile and all is great and wonderful, screw the city mentality" We have to work together and also stop promoting 2nd hand stereotypes and 2nd hand information allowing the virus to spread faster and bigger among co-workers, kids, families, and visitors. |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1792
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:11 pm: | |
I agree that lack of zoning is a huge issue in Detroit, you have industrial areas next to residential which in some cases isn't safe nor attractive. You have clubs next door to condos/lofts (Broadway), club in a strip mall in a residential area (Club Intus on Lafayette in the Miers Van Der Rho plaza)... it's just a clusterfuck! It seems like the city gets excited with developments and new business that they don't care where it is placed. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2734
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:20 pm: | |
The reason for the residential-industrial proximity went all the way back to the 20s. People simply wanted to live closer to their jobs. Plus, there was no worry about all of this environment BS like today.
Also, you would get excited too if you're someone who hasn't ate for 50 years and finally gets a piece of chicken after so long. |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1793
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:27 pm: | |
I understand about the residential/work place meshing back in the day. Most of those places are gone, abandon or something else now. So when should zoning kick in? I think zoning in Detroit is just a title for someone that was gonna get fired but they couldn't so they said.. here be in charge of zoning- you won't have any work to do.
I forgot about code enforcement- that's up there with zoning and morale. |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1794
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:29 pm: | |
Detroitrise... correct me if I am wrong... as long as it's development or new business, we should just shut the f___ up and be happy? |
Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1712
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:32 pm: | |
I would think you are confusing zoning and land use. Bars are permitted in commercial settings. I would think this would be one of the last things this city should worry about. There should be some oversight given to location in the transfer or sale of liqoiur permit (sp) process.
Zoning was first put to use as a tool for separating things that drive folks nuts such as being close to stamping plants that operate all night or slaughter houses. While bars can be a pain in the butt, they are not to the degree of a slaughter house.
Zoning is only one tool that can be used to regulate location, and there is always room under all zoning codes to exceptions. I'd handle this with a different tool. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2737
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:32 pm: | |
I never said the way Detroit was doing it is right.
However, a starving person doesn't think what's in their food (or what they're eating) when they eat it. |
Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 965
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:36 pm: | |
regulate liquor sells...
down here in NC (where we moved to), we have controlled liquor by the state board.
it seems to have a HUGE effect on the broken windows theory
(Message edited by mrsjdaniels on July 08, 2008) |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1797
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:38 pm: | |
"While bars can be a pain in the butt, they are not to the degree of a slaughter house"
You sure about that, lol...
Also try telling that to someone who lives in a loft and a club opens up after they have been there in a while. Tell that that to those who have to deal with Broadway being shut down each weekend or deal with the gun shots on occasion near the place they lay their heads.
Hell, even Pontiac has a club/ entertainment district on Saginaw street. |
Tetsua
Member
Username: Tetsua
Post Number: 1714
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:45 pm: | |
"While bars can be a pain in the butt, they are not to the degree of a slaughter house"
While I don't live by a bar, I do live by a place that has occasional parties (the MOCAD). Keep in mind, I like the MOCAD, and I'm glad they opened here, but on the nights they have parties I wish the place didn't exist lol. I can only imagine how the residents of Lofts at Woodward, Merchants Row, and the place by Berts on Broadway feel every weekend. It's gotta be a hard sell for a condo, by a club. |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1798
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:47 pm: | |
.... I guess you have to sell it during the day. Tetsua what are you thinking? It's the D.... STFU and deal with it. That's the Detroit way right? At least that's what I am gathering from Detroitrise lol. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4621
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:57 pm: | |
IIRC, Detroit has 34 of the 72 strip clubs in the state...
reflects the attitude of city leadership
until the general attitude changes to one of community responsibility and mutual respect Detroit goes nowhere |
1953
Member
Username: 1953
Post Number: 1582
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:58 pm: | |
I am with you Tetusa (maybe not so much on #5, but generally with you on all of them). |
Mike
Member
Username: Mike
Post Number: 1447
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 1:05 pm: | |
i visited Cincinnati over the July 4th break. i expected something, and what I found was unexpected. There downtown seemed ten times better than ours. We had race riots 4 decades ago and never recovered, Cinnci had race riots this decade and recovered. People in this region like to blame the black population for the city's demise. I am starting to blame white people.
Opps. Racial Harmony was on that list somewhere wasn't.  |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1799
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 1:09 pm: | |
^^how about this... both races fucked up and need to stop pointing and move on. I call it a tie lol... new game |
Tetsua
Member
Username: Tetsua
Post Number: 1715
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 1:14 pm: | |
I think having districts has several advantages in a city.
First it makes things easier to find if when you don't know exactly what you're looking for ex A friend of yours is looking for some kind of suit jacket ... send him to the clothing district. You might not know exactly which store, but you'd have a good idea of the area he should go to.
It also makes security needs easier to identify, station more cops in casino, club, and bar / entertainment districts. Also when you have these entertainment venues closer to each other, there's more pressure to keep the place from being ragedy. Look how many clubs just found their nitch, and end up looking like a dank pit. In a district with competition looking them in the face, they'd have to adapt, or perish. |
Tetsua
Member
Username: Tetsua
Post Number: 1716
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 1:18 pm: | |
quote:People in this region like to blame the black population for the city's demise. I am starting to blame white people.
Yeah ... both sides fucked up, but where do we go from here. We can keep blaming each other til Jesus (or whoever) calls us home but what good will that do the region? Let's say white people ALL collectively accept the blame for what's wrong with Detroit, what's that gonna do? |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1800
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 1:21 pm: | |
....nothing.
Then there would be no reason to keep saying.. if the blacks hadn't messed it up I would move back... or the whites did this and that.
It's kinda like when a bad divorce is settled, after the beef is over- it's no longer fun and you can't trash the other person anymore to build a compelling case. Now you have your divorce decree and nothing to yell about....life goes on :-D |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2677
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 1:33 pm: | |
I thought a vibrant neighborhood included places you can walk to. Everybody on his cheers when a bar opens up in Detroit, but they frown about dance clubs.
The clubs in many locations were there before the loft craze. The club at Woodward and Clifford(X/S, The Apt, Pure or whatever it is called now) has been in that location before Merchants Row and Lofts at Woodward. It's unfortunate that problems with the crowd occur, but I thought the appeal of living in the heart of downtown was to be where the action is? Now, folks living near the clubs are complaining about too much action. You can't have everything.
Zoning of businesses in Detroit is the least of Detroit's problems today. Bad behavior by club goers is a problem because of the persons the clubs attract. Bunching all the clubs in one spot is not practical. Even when the city bunches the majority of strip clubs on 8 Mile or Michigan Avenue, people still complain. How about putting all entertainment on Belle Isle and tell families that they have to leave by nine because the riff raff and binge drinkers will be coming. Will that make everyone happy, probably not? |
Tetsua
Member
Username: Tetsua
Post Number: 1717
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 1:52 pm: | |
quote:The clubs in many locations were there before the loft craze. The club at Woodward and Clifford(X/S, The Apt, Pure or whatever it is called now) has been in that location before Merchants Row and Lofts at Woodward. It's unfortunate that problems with the crowd occur, but I thought the appeal of living in the heart of downtown was to be where the action is? Now, folks living near the clubs are complaining about too much action. You can't have everything.
Be that as it is Royce, you have to admit that there is nothing on the block of Woodward where Apt (Or X/Z or whatever it's called today) and Club Bleu are located. No business has moved in, no resturant will touch it, no residential nothing. Nobody wants to deal with the headache of the clubs. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 7563
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 1:54 pm: | |
Lodgedodger - Are you really paying that much on your property taxes? |
Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1714
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 3:21 pm: | |
PG: If you live in Detroit, you pay a large millage rate. You also pay $300 garbage tax, and a 2.5 percent income tax. I don't think he is out of line to say he pays that much. If he just bought his house, he could be calculating on the cheap side actually.
I understand that living by a bar is a nusiance, but those that choose to live there should take that into account before agreeing to purchase that property or renting it. Zoning in itself will not get bars to locate together, ordinances and permits could. This whole arguement reminds me of the ordinances in Boston that force all the smut peddalers into one area vs Detroit where they are forced to have a distance apart and be x number of feet away from schools.
(Message edited by Detroitplanner on July 08, 2008) |