Discuss Detroit » Hall of Fame Threads » I work(ed) in a Detroit automobile plant « Previous Next »
Archive through August 07, 2008Townonenorth30 08-07-08  10:45 pm
Archive through August 09, 2008Richard_bak30 08-09-08  9:49 pm
  ClosedNew threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.        

Top of pageBottom of page

Lodgedodger
Member
Username: Lodgedodger

Post Number: 302
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Piquette.

I like pierogi with sauerkraut! Anything else is a sin! ;-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 493
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've heard that the foundry is just about the worst. A guy I used to work with told me about working in a foundry in Cincinnati. His first day, he went home at lunch time and never went back. He didn't even ask them for his pay (although they sent it to him).
Anyone here care to share memories from the foundry?
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 47
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My father worked at a foundry in Delray called Michigan Malleable Iron Company. It was torn down in the early 60's. They supplied castings to Auto-Car, Caterpillar and others. I was 4 years old in 1953, when my mother and I went there to deliver his lunch. The place was dark and filthy. He stood about 3 feet from me and I did not recognize him. He looked like a coal miner. Face and hands black with core sand and iron dust. After staring at who my mother was talking to he said "Don't you know who I am, son ?" When I heard his voice then I knew. When he got home from work, we were not allowed to open the paper bag that held his work clothes. He did not want my sister and I exposed to the dust. My mother would soak the work clothes in the old concrete laundry tub, stirring them slowly with a wooden stick. That would release most of the dust. His father worked at the Atlas Foundry on Dragoon. It is still there.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 513
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is that on Dragoon between Fort and the railroad tracks?
Top of pageBottom of page

Bate
Member
Username: Bate

Post Number: 96
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have a look at this video of a transfer press operation at an auto parts plant in China. I wonder how many hands they loose a week?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =bMMMnNtBOHM
Top of pageBottom of page

Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 349
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

!That's crazy! If you lost your left hand, they'd probably move you to the other side of the press!

Jobs like those weren't too far back in OUR past. They had a couple of hand-fed presses at Chrysler Sterling Stamping as recently as 2000. Both loaders had to press BOTH of their palm buttons to operate the press. (Minivan Frame Rails, although they had cylinders to kick the panels out of the dies.)
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 48
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dfd:
The Atlas Foundry is on Dragoon just east of the tracks on the south side of the street. The sign is still on the building.
The Michigan Malleable Iron Company was on Crossley, west of Jefferson. The north side of the building faced Crossley, the south side was at the railroad tracks for the Delray Connecting Railroad. One of the people my Dad worked with said after they closed, the building was torn down and all the steel and iron was shipped across to Zug Island and melted down.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 50
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One last story about working at Trenton Engine. The jobsetter on 1st shift was a old man with about 40+ years with Chrysler. We all called him "Dad". He usually responded with a obscene remark. He had a large metal box about 4 feet square and about 3 feet high. It had heavy metal straps welded around it. It had 2 large padlocks securing the doors. This vault was secured to one of the vertical I beams that supported the roof. He said he had his tools inside. One day I came up behind him to ask a question while he was sitting in front of this box with the doors open. The inside was filled with the largest selection of hard core porn I had ever seen. When I spoke to him he slammed the doors. He later came by with the latest issue of "Screw". Someone else must have seen the contents, because one day he came in to work and the locks had been cut off with a torch. He was so upset, he was unable to work and later suffered a heart attack.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 526
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lpg, does Zug Island supply steel for the auto makers?
Has anyone here worked at Zug Island?
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dfd, Zug Island is home to US Steel blast furnaces, used to be Great Lakes Steel. The molten iron is transported by thermos car to the main plant in Ecorse. If you look up Zug Island online it will tell you the whole story. I was offered a job by my uncle who worked there at a chemical process called the Solvay, later Allied Chemical. I listened to the job description (driving a payloader in a pitch pit) and said no thanks. A high school friend started his career at Great Lakes Steel cleaning coke oven doors. The place looks like hell on earth. And smells worse. Before pollution controls were required, the air quality was unreal. After a few months a new cars finish would feel like sandpaper. It's a little better now, but not much.
My first job out of high school was at Scott Paper Company which was across the channel from Zug Island. I got to inhale paper dust along with everything drifting from the island.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 534
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Lpg. This stuff has been interesting to read. Building cars and making steel is tough business.
Top of pageBottom of page

Little_mike
Member
Username: Little_mike

Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys/Girls,

I have read this topic from top to bottom and when I was done, I read it all over again.

I have worked in a Nuclear Power Plant for the past 24 years. Nuclear aside, let's just talk industrial working environment.

When did OSHA really start hammering the Big 3 for safety in the work place? You guys are talking about the possibility of losing fingers/hands or breathing stuff in that is unacceptable by today's standards where I work.

Can you guys comment on outside agencies pushing safety and the company's response/pushback/acceptance of it?

I am reading your stories and my jaw is in my lap. Booze on company property? Fisticuffs? Is this common in today's work place?

What are your E-Mail policies?

Here is an example of the standards I deal with every day:

I cannot TOUCH a piece of running equipment w/o gloves (pumps, motors, valves, piping).

I have to wear a hard hat, hearing protection, safety glasses (with permanent side shields), and either steel toed or composite toed shoes when in the plant.

I have to used a three point method when ascending/descending ladders (i.e. of your four points - two hands, two feet, three of them at all times have to be in contact with the ladder at all times).

Any violation of any of these aforementioned items is considered a direct violation of company procedures and is subject to disciplinary action, including immediate discharge if proven to be a willful violation.
Top of pageBottom of page

Townonenorth
Member
Username: Townonenorth

Post Number: 89
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike, those WERE acceptable standards that were enforced at the time. Things change. OSHA workplace standards like lockout are very rigidly enforced now. Where presses and machinery were run by a simple set of run buttons, now lasers, light screens, and proximity pads are common protection for the operator.

Booze, drugs and fighting ALWAYS were grounds for dismissal, and is even more stringently enforced now.

What I can't believe is that you are required to wear gloves when operating moving machinery. That is a no-no. Easily can get caught up with a glove in a spinning machine, with your hand following.
Top of pageBottom of page

Frankg
Member
Username: Frankg

Post Number: 512
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree - the safety standards and enforcement has increased alot over the years.

Funny thing, though, at Milford Proving Grounds they still don't enforce wearing safety glasses.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 55
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the late 60's when I started working and later the boss was the judge of what you would do. If you worked at a job that had union representation , you could protest. But if the so called safety man said it was OK, you had to do it. If not you had to decide if you could afford time off. Having also worked with no union representation, the choice was more immediate, do it now or quit on the spot.
I have driven defective dump trucks, tractor trailers, I worked in the bottom of a unsupported 25 foot deep trench laying sewer pipe. It was strictly a choice of having a paycheck to help feed the family. When I talk to younger workers now they are amazed at what we did. Most working conditions in the 60's and 70's were not much different than what my father had in the 30's-50's.
Top of pageBottom of page

Little_mike
Member
Username: Little_mike

Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the scoop, guys. Townonenorth, I'm going to take that gloves/rotating machinery comment back to my plant when I go back in. You might have just saved somebody some fingers.

When I referenced rotating machinery, I am talking about pumps generally driven by electric motors. Although some are steam turbine driven, and the couplings and shafts are guarded, rotating is rotating is rotating. We can take gloves off only to check for motor and bearing temperatures (hard to do with gloves on) but only after supervisor approval.

Once again, thanks.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1734
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this a government inquisition on auto industry trying to come up with more regulations.
Top of pageBottom of page

Little_mike
Member
Username: Little_mike

Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. Just trying to learn and get an understanding what it is like in your plants.
Top of pageBottom of page

Quonset_hut
Member
Username: Quonset_hut

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 3:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a book on Flint auto plant zombies. They would double up on jobs so the other guy could get blind drunk to hold off the boredom.

http://www.amazon.com/Rivethea d-Tales-Assembly-Ben-Hamper/dp /0446394009/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie =UTF8&s=books&qid=1219217437&s r=8-1
Top of pageBottom of page

Townonenorth
Member
Username: Townonenorth

Post Number: 97
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reference to the spinning machinery was more or less in reference to grinding wheels, stuff like that. Of course electric motors also have the potential to do the same thing, so that's why I mentioned it. Better safe than sorry.

Regarding the book mentioned by Quonset_hut, I guess that's a more or less accurate depiction, but only if you focus on the dysfunctional alcohol/drug abusers and slackers. Sure it was boring, but not that boring.

And in the end, those that doubled up on the jobs just made it harder for everyone else, eliminating good jobs when the foreman or IE guy noticed that the job could be done by one man.
Top of pageBottom of page

Xphillipjrx
Member
Username: Xphillipjrx

Post Number: 157
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I worked at the Dearborn Engine Plant for 7-8 months after I graduated from college. I started in June of 1993. My grandfather was pretty involved in union activities. I was at home and my mom called me from work to say that she spoke to my grandpa. She gave me a lady’s name and number at Ford. I called the lady and I gave her my name and my grandpa’s name and how I was told to call this number for a job. She told me there’s a long wait and people don’t just call up for jobs. Almost like “Who do you think you are, calling ME for a job”?

I called my mom and told her what happened. Ten minutes later my mom called back and told me to call again. I called again and the lady changed her tune just like that! “Oh, I didn’t know! Why didn’t you say…?” I guess my grandpa called her and straightened her out. That was my first experience to how hookups work.

I started at the plant with about ten other people. I asked around and every single one of the people knew somebody who worked someplace within FMC. One guy’s brother worked in the foundry. One guy’s dad was in skilled trades. One of the women was the daughter of the HR lady I was told to call. During my first 30 days I was repeatedly told about how FMC will lay people off within 28-29 days because benefits kick in after 30 days. My 30 days came and went without an issue.

All the guys were put to work in different areas of the plant. We made Escort engines. We were fill-in workers for people who were either late, on vacation or on leave. Sometimes we worked for a few minutes, a week or longer. Of my time there, I spent the most days attaching spark plug caps. I was replacing a guy who was a drunk, but he couldn’t get fired because of the UAW. He would miss as many days as he was allowed, then he’d return to work for as long as he had to and then he was out again.

I was told to only work as fast as the line goes and no faster. Supposedly there was a guy with a stopwatch who roamed the plant. They will speed up the line if they determine that we can get more pieces completed in X time.

The thing that fascinated me the most was the plant lottery. There was a guy who rode a bicycle from station to station and took people’s numbers. He had a plain 3x5 pad of paper. He put carbon paper between two pages and he wrote down plays. He ripped off one page, folded over one page and went to the next person. I guess the guy on the bike was a FMC employee, but I never saw where he worked.

I learned that the plant lottery pays better odds than the Michigan State Lottery. MSL pays $5000 for a straight 4-digit and the plant lottery pays $8000. Plus the plant pays cash the next day. A person could play $20 on the 4-digit and have $160000 the next morning. The plant protocol is that a big winner gets paid the next morning, gives some cash to the number man, some to his foreman and some to his buddies. Then he has the day off so that nobody is waiting for him at the end of the shift to knock him over the head! (I met a lady a few years later whose family ran one of the plant lotteries. She said they use the MSL as a hedge if too many people are playing the same number. They will play the same number with MSL to offset their potential loss).

There was a guy at the plant named Communist Bob. He spent all day reading communist literature and trying to get people to understand that communism would make things better. The was another guy who was a Jehovah’s Witness and he read the Watchtower and other JW publications. I remember asking him to borrow a pen and he wanted to make sure I was not going to use it to “write down numbers” with the numbers man.

The Deletha Word Belle Isle incident happened while I worked at Ford. I got the most valuable advice of my life while I was discussing it with a guy next to me on the line. He said, “Man, you don’t gotta act a fool just cause you see a fool act a fool”. The world would be a better place if more people followed that advice.

I had a degree in Economics/Finance from WMU. I thought working at the plant would help me get another job someplace else within FMC. I filled out a few applications and nothing happened. One of the foremen knew I just got out of college. He called me over and he said he was going to help me. I stood next to him as he typed a message to his buddy through some company computer system. It was a message like “I have a young man here who needs a job…blah blah blah…do you have anything over there”? At the end of the message he enters “A mind is a terrible thing to waste”. Sure as sh1t the reply was “Sorry, we don’t have any openings”. The foreman smiled at me and told me he tried and back to the line I went. I knew then that I wasn’t going any higher without another hookup. One of my resumes was accepted by NBD and I left Ford to work at the bank in February 1994.

One day me and one of the other new guys walked over to the Mustang plant. We walked in like we worked there and we walked around the whole place for almost an hour. It was even better than the tour I took in elementary school.

There were stacks of gloves and earplugs at the entrance to the work area. They had the thin cotton gloves and the heavy suede-lined gloves. They had the foam earplugs, the orange ones and the blue and yellow cone ones. Most people tossed their gloves, but I started keeping mine. I still have a big box of gloves (usually spotless except for one black finger or thumb) and the earplugs still come in handy because my wife snores!

I bought a 1993 Mustang Cobra with the employee discount while I worked at Ford. I left with the car, a ton of gloves and a bunch of memories!

(Message edited by xphillipjrx on August 26, 2008)
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 60
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only true way to know what it was like was to actually have been there. Writing your memories only brings one dimension to light. When you added the sounds (loud), and the smells, it was truly an assault on your senses.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 575
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was there a strong smell of hot compressor oil and hydraulic fluid?
Top of pageBottom of page

Steelworker
Member
Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 1150
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i will say yes for my work.
Top of pageBottom of page

Steelworker
Member
Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 1151
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

almost no safety/osha involvement when they do come they miss so much stuff.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 61
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Definite smell of hydraulic oil. Mixed in with the rancid oil/water mix used to cool drills and taps. The old machines leaked oil, there was a guy called the oiler on every shift. He pushed a square cart called a bowser. It was filled with hydraulic oil. It had a long hose so he could pass it through the line to reach the machines on both sides. Each machine head had a sight glass. If the machine needed oil (checked once per shift), you removed the cap and inserted the hose and the oiler would turn a handle on the bowser to pump the oil. You would signal him when it was full. The water/oil mix would only be changed when it necessary. There was a filtration system that forced the mix which was full of metal chips from the drilling and tapping machines, through a media of some sort. When the giant roll of media ran out, it was not always changed right away. In order to service the system the line had to be shut down. You could not run the machines with no coolant. They would wait as long as they could before doing the change. The gun drills would plug up with metal shavings and start to drill oversize holes (valve guides). Almost every machine had a coating of oil on it. In the summertime when it was super hot you would see clouds of mist in the aisles. I remember watching a hi-lo driving away from me and he disappeared in the mist.
Top of pageBottom of page

Larryinflorida
Member
Username: Larryinflorida

Post Number: 2427
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lpg, I know it's hard to put this stuff into words but you're doing it really well.
I'm enjoying this thread a lot, too!
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Larryinflorida, Thanks for the kind words. It's kind of amazing how many memories come back to me after so many years. This thread has kept my interest also.
Top of pageBottom of page

Chad
Member
Username: Chad

Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used to work in a factory in Troy called Versa-Tube. All kinds of different things made there. Truck beds, transmission housings. Lots of big stamping machinery. They used to hire a lot of ex cons from the half way house. (It was said that they got a tax break for every one of them that they hired). No union so the pay was real bad. About $6/hr for a machine operator back in '79. I used to run 3 machines that spun speedometer cable housing. Lots of drug and alcohol use in the parking lot at break and lunchtime. One day I pulled into the parking lot and couldn't bring myself to go inside. The next day I saved the gas and didn't even drive there. When we were out of material they would send us over to the stamping divison to work.
I also worked at a place in Rochester called Lectron. Much nicer but again also non union so you didn't make a lot of money there either.

Chad

p.s. Larry what part of Florida are you in?
Top of pageBottom of page

Larryinflorida
Member
Username: Larryinflorida

Post Number: 2444
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Southside. Chad.
Top of pageBottom of page

Xphillipjrx
Member
Username: Xphillipjrx

Post Number: 159
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I forgot to mention in my earlier post: Guys on their last day before retirement would wear their Sunday best to work and spend the day walking around to tell everybody goodbye.
Top of pageBottom of page

Corktown_paddy
Member
Username: Corktown_paddy

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Valenite Metals (Division of Valeron Corp)in 1972 wet grinding carbide tool bits.
Worked the afternoon shift from 5-2:30AM MF and 4-12:30AM on Saturday.First paycheck was $139.90 take home and I had no idea what having so much money was like.
Stuck it out until January of 1976 when I couldn't take any more. To this day hot machine oil makes me almost gag.
Only regret I have is not quitting after a year or so. I pissed away a lot of living working afternoons at that age.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 64
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Corktown_paddy- Where was Valenite Metals located? I worked in a machine tool shop 1977-81. I remember picking up carbide cutting bits from I beleive was Valenite Metals. You bring up a good point about the paycheck. Working at Trenton Engine, I bought a new 68 Plymouth Roadrunner. On my salary of about 85.00 for a 40 hr week, I was able to make 2 payments a month on the car. My folks charged me 10.00 per week room and board. I also had money left over for my girlfriend (now my wife) and the ever growing pile of broken parts from racing the car. Once the car was paid for I then bought a motorcycle.
When overtime was figured in (a lot), I was living large.
I hated afternoon shift for the same reason. Midnights was even worse as you could go out on a date, but the payback was trying to stay awake after about 4am. I fell asleep twice on the job, once sitting on a pallet of cylinder heads. The stock ran out, and the operator woke me up by hitting me in the face with metal chips (he was on the other side of the line). The second time I nearly killed myself, I fell asleep standing up, hanging on to a hoist cable used to lift crankshafts. I woke up as I was falling into the hooks that transported the crankshafts to the motor line for assembly. I could not stop shaking for several minutes thinking what could have happened. After that, I made sure I got enough sleep.
Top of pageBottom of page

Middleageguy
Member
Username: Middleageguy

Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An uncle who worked at Dodge Main said that there used to be a woman who hung trim moldings on cars, and provided "other services" to the guys.
He also said that more than once, a guy picked up a 440(?) engine on a hilo, drove out to the back parking area, lifted it over a back fence, and someone on the other side eased it into the back of a pickup truck. A finished engine, right off the line!
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 600
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"A finished engine, right off the line!"
Were they building race cars?
What about fisher body? That was a big operation wasn't it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick

Post Number: 5523
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chad, no offense there buddy but $6.00 to run a machine in 1979 is the same as about $18.00 or $19.00 an hour today. I wouldn't consider $18.00 a bad wage for unskilled labor.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 66
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dfd,
At Trenton Engine, we built all types of engines. 6 cylinder, a variety of 8 cylinder. The most desirable were the hi-performance 383 and the high performance 440. The 440 was used in the GTX in 1968 and added to the Roadrunner in 69. We also machined parts for the 426 Hemi, cylinder heads, connecting rods, and others, but they were shipped to a plant in Indiana I believe for assembly. If you know what to look for identification of the motor was easy. Every motor had a tag attached to it. The assembled engines were shipped without carburetors as they were not needed for initial startup on the motorline.
As a gearhead, I used to stop and look at the warranty return engines sitting on carts by where we walked into the plant. Mostly the hi-po versions. Holes blown through the side of the block where a connecting rod had made its exit. All sorts of carnage. We often wondered what excuse was given for what happened and why it should be replaced for free. "My mom started it up for me and it just happened" Yeah right.
I remember a train derailed on the west side of the plant, the single set of tracks east of Fort Street. The boxcars were filled with engines and they spilled onto the grass alongside the track. What a sight.
Top of pageBottom of page

Chad
Member
Username: Chad

Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patrick- None taken.
I do not recall the exact figure I was earning as it was 30 years ago. I do remember it was tough getting by on what I earned. I don't have the check stubs but my ss statement shows 11k for a year and 13k the next. We often worked 58 hour week (10 M/F & 8 on Sat). Doing the math there is no way I was earning $6/hr.
I was doing my own machine setup/adjustment so I figure this to be semi-skilled labor.
I can say I'm glad those days are over!
Chad
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 601
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lpg,
When I was a kid, we had a 68 Dodge Polara station wagon (land yacht)with a 383. I don't think it was hi-po.
Did Dodge make any of their own engines, or did they come from Trenton?
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 68
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dfd,
We supplied all of Chrysler with engines. There was also the Mound Road engine plant that did the same. There was no distinction when it came to what engines went into what car line (Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler, etc).
As a side note the old Trenton Engine plant is to be replaced with a new building currently being built next door. I am guessing the old building will be torn down.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 604
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So how long did it take to build an engine like the 440?
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 69
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dfd,
My guess, not very long. When the lines were all running, raw castings were loaded on the beginning of the line in the machining area (where I worked). After all the machining (drilling, tapping, etc)and what ever else needed to be done the parts went through a washer then final inspection. The last man in our department air tested the cylinder heads and checked the oil feed hole in the rocker arm support. The next man on the line was in a different department (same continuous line), he installed the intake and exhaust valves. The head continued down the line until fully assembled. It continued on overhead hooks over to the motorline where it was installed on a cylinder block and the assembly continued until the engine was complete. It then travelled to the merry-go-round for it's inital startup. They were then painted. If all was OK, the engine was loaded onto steel racks for shipment via truck or rail. If the engine did not start, it was pulled off and sent to the repair hole to find out what was wrong. After a few months there, I came in early one afternoon and wandered around. I was amazed at what went on in the assembly area (it was referred to as the motorline). I had the misfortune to be sent there once when our department was down for repair. It was the 8 cylinder line. I had just a few seconds to look at the tag and the type of water pump on the engine, select the correct thermostat, gasket and housing and wire loom and install them, without getting in the way of the next man on the line. You stepped on to the moving line and your air tool which hung from the rafters only had a short hose. You had to work fast. There were 3 or 4 different combinations depending on it was for a car or truck. I could not keep up having never worked on the line before. The foreman was yelling, the guy next to me was yelling. So I did not install any thermostats. That worked until the end of the line when the missing part was noticed. The foreman had to shut the line down. He started screaming at me, I told him to shove it and to send me back to my own department. He was happy to grant my request. I was never sent back to the motorline as long as I was there.
Top of pageBottom of page

Richard_bak
Member
Username: Richard_bak

Post Number: 568
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The worst feeling in the world, Lpg----foreman and co-workers screaming while you're trying to master a new station, stretching a hose to its breaking point while trying to catch up the line....absolutely no choreography to your motions....feeling the fool.....


"You Gotta Fight That Line"

by Joe Glazer, circa 1935



They put me to work on the assembly line;
My clock-card number was 90-90-9.
Those Fords rolled by on that factory floor,
And every 14 seconds I slapped on a door.

Those Fords rolled by all day and all night,
My job was the front door on the right.
Foreman told me the day I was hired,
"You miss one door, Mr. Jones....you're fired."

I slapped those doors on, always on the run
Every 14 seconds, never missed a one.
And I staggered home from work each night,
Still slappin' 'em on---front door right.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 70
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard_bak,
Truer words were never spoken............
Top of pageBottom of page

Ggores
Member
Username: Ggores

Post Number: 352
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok. I missed out on easing into an auto assembly line. Also eased out on a free tuition to Welder's School. So I took the a path rarely taken (is another story completely).

BUT... An 18 year-old could pull 800 bucks A WEEK, welding on the assembly line at Rouge. And that was a non-union wage.

Bro used to come home with "flash burns". Be blind for several days. BUT... no greater caring could be imagined then for the Administrator, than to send you a paycheck for your efforts, while one recooperated.

I'll say it again - We build things. We make the seemingly impossible, possible.

We solve problems.

Detroiter's stand on their own.

That's how this City was founded, actually.

:-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 607
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought building cars was tough, but I didn't realise all this. I see where the pride in your work comes from.
Speaking of DFD, were there any plants in Detroit that made fire trucks or parts?
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 642
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about Fisher Body. Are there any former employees here?
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1841
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was a mechanical engineer at Fisher Body from the early 70's until it was reorganized out of existence in 1985.

During that time, FB's main businesses were metal stampings, welded metal subassemblies, finished car bodies, cut & sew operations (seat covers, cushions and assemblies, etc.), interior subassemblies (door trim panels, headliners, etc.), hardware (hinges, latches, etc.). Here is a 1983 list of FB plants.

I can't speak for the workers in the plants, but I can describe the FB operations during that period, some of the conditions I saw in the plants and some of the mfg. systems I helped engineer and install.

FB metal fabricating plants would bring in coils of steel and ship out boxcars and trucks full of stampings and welded metal subassemblies, such as quarter panels, roof asms., door asms., floor pan asms., as well as many types of reinforcements, brackets, etc. The fab plants would ship their products to the FB and GM Assembly Div. assembly plants where they would be welded together into the "body-in-white" in the body shop. FB engineers processed & designed all of the stamping dies and b-i-w welding tooling and fixtures used in FB fab, FB assembly and GMAD assembly plants. The only metal body parts the Car Divisions (Chev, Pont, Olds, etc.) had engineering & mfg. responsibility for were the front fender, hood, etc. (front "clip").

FB fab plants were actually two plants (press room and metal assembly) under one roof with a firewall separating the two. The press room took sheet metal coils and made blanks which were fed through the draw die, flanging and trim presses to create a finished stamping. A major exterior panel would require five sets of dies in consecutive presses to bring it to final shape. These presses were maybe fifty feet tall, with half of it in the press pit and the rest of it above floor level. The blanks and semi-finished panels were loaded/unloaded from press to press using manual operators, simple automation and/or conveyor belts. At the end of the press line, one or two workers would load the finished stamping into a shipping rack.

The press room was an extremely loud and dangerous place to work. You not only heard the presses through your plugged ears, you felt them through the soles of your shoes and from the concussive forces transmitted through the air and into your body. The edges of the stampings were razor sharp and workers needed to wear heavy gloves and aprons to prevent cuts, in addition to the mandatory ear and eye protection.

Press operators would have to press two palm buttons that were shoulder-width apart to signal that they had finished their loading of the press before it could cycle. If a worker had to go inside the press platens to work on a die or retrieve a mis-located part, they were supposed to swing the safety post into place which was electrically interlocked to the press controls and would also mechanically prevent the press from closing for whatever reason.

One had to be vigilant even while walking in the aisles, since material handling trucks and racks were quickly moving every which way and cranes could be moving huge dies directly overhead.

I would have to say that the FB fab plants were very safety-conscious and so were those of us who tried to design safe tools and equipment. Of course, as a operator, you know how many panels per hour your press line has to average to make your quota for the shift (depending on the size and complexity of the part, typically 100 to 300 panels per hour, net) and if your press line was running behind, those safety posts might not always have been used. From what I saw, wearing of safety protection devices were usually strictly enforced, except for ear plugs in the earlier days (many employees would just wear them around their neck).

The metal assembly side of the house was also loud, but in a different way with a higher-frequency noise compared to the press room. The ceiling were a lot lower, too, making it seem darker and louder. This was because the press room had mostly high-bay ceilings so the cranes could clear the tops of the presses. The metal assembly area had many automated welding lines that were dedicated to the production of one or two variants of a particular type of subassembly (ex.: one short and one long wheelbase floor pan subassembly or one Chev and one Pont RH frt door).

These welding lines would consist of multiple standard, four-corner welding presses into which a removable set of upper and lower weld fixtures were installed. A set of mechanical handling rails would extend the length of these multiple welding presses and would "lift-and-carry" the subassemblies from one weld press to the next. Operators would load parts either onto locators on the shuttle rails or onto locators inside the weld fixture. When all operators had hit their palm buttons, the shuttle rails would advance, the fixture in the lower portion of the weld press would lift the parts into the upper fixture and resistance weld guns would fire to spot weld the parts together and add additional spots to strengthen them. Workers at the end of the line would load the finished part into shipping racks, sometimes with mechanical assistance if the subassembly was too large or heavy. Operators loading parts had to be positioned on elevated platforms tucked close to the shuttle and often could not even see each other.

These welding line would be designed to run at 300 to 600 parts per hour (depending on part complexity), but because of the 6 to 12 operators who had to load parts and hit palm buttons before each cycle, plus mechanical downtime, the lines seldom netted more than 80% of that design rate.

The tooling in the metal assembly area used compressed air to actuate the clamping cylinders and weld guns in the weld fixtures. Therefore there was always a fine mist of oil hanging in the air from the exhaust of the lubricated air. When the weld presses closed and fired the spot weld guns simultaneously in all of the fixtures on that line, a loud 60-cycle hum would emanate from the many weld gun transformers that could be both heard and felt. Additional noise was caused by the many air valves, cylinders and clamps that were actuated with each cycle of the weld press. However, the most dramatic feature of each weld press cycle was the shower of white-hot sparks that cascaded out from each subassembly as the spot weld guns fired. Shielding would be hung to protect the operators from the sparks, but they could not be 100% effective. Welding tool engineers like myself would define the nominal weld schedule settings that produced the strongest spot weld with the least electricity. However, those settings did not produce a visual indicator that the weld nugget was being formed, so the FB fab plant welder maintenance skilled tradesmen would often "up" the amperage so they could see the shower of sparks and know that the guns was working. This made life a little easier for them, but hellish for the operators.

After the 1985 reorganization, the FB plants continued under the names of either the Buick-Olds-Cadillac (BOC) or Chevrolet-Pontiac-Canada (CPC) divisions. However, the trend from Body-On-Frame to Body-Frame-Integral vehicle designs eventually spelled the end for the FB assembly plants, which trucked their painted and trimmed bodies to a Car Division assembly plant for marriage to the frame and chassis (ex.: FB Fleetwood to Cadillac Clark Street). Furthermore, the need to improve quality, improve mfg. efficiencies and reduce inventory resulted in more and more of the metal subassemblies being made in the assembly plant body shops, where they could be produced at the same (and much lower) rate as the body shop.
Top of pageBottom of page

Peachlaser
Member
Username: Peachlaser

Post Number: 223
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lpg - one night in 1969, a friend drove up to the Brazier where everyone hung out in his new Dodge Charger R/T with its 383 hi-po. I asked for a ride and got more than I bargained for. It registered 150 but he passed that and had it pegged. For years, I had gone faster in this car than I had in small airplanes that I flew in.

One day, my friend drove back from Florida while in 2nd and not Drive and burned the engine up. That's how one engine got returned to you.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 74
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peachlaser-I have no doubt that everyone of the warranty return engines had a very interesting story attached to it. I don't remember any documentation being attached to them, as they were on small flat carts being pulled by a small tractor tug about 10 at a time. But when you saw a hole in the side of the block where a connecting rod made it's exit, that told volumes about what had happened, most were the hi-po versions of the 383 and 440.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 673
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, September 26, 2008 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bump
Top of pageBottom of page

Larryinflorida
Member
Username: Larryinflorida

Post Number: 2877
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, September 26, 2008 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rebump.
This is ambrosia.
Mikeg, great stuff.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 696
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Were the car windows made at the car body companies?
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1908
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GM purchased their window glass from outside companies like PPG and LOF. Chrysler used to make glass at their former McGraw St. plant from 1960 until they closed it in 2003. Ford also used to make some of their own glass at a plant in Dearborn from 1922 until 1998.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 791
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bump
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 90
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the things that was not mentioned was how easy it was to get hired at a auto plant back in the 60's. A good friend had a older brother who worked at Trenton Engine. Since we were not sure what we wanted to do about a career, we figured why not apply there. We went down first thing in the morning, filled out the application, took a physical. A little while later someone from the front office asked our group if anyone wanted to start today. We said yes and were told to report back to that room at 3pm. Bring safety shoes, work clothes and a lunch. We did and a group of foremen came to the room and selected who they wanted for their department. I started loading 6 cylinder heads fresh from the Fostoria Foundry that very night. My buddy worked across the aisle in 6 cylinder manifolds. His older brother was going to college and got off the manufacturing floor and ended up working up front in the office as a timekeeper.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dfd
Member
Username: Dfd

Post Number: 838
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lpg, I was looking back through the thread. Did you work at Trenton for a short time or did you stay?
"A little while later someone from the front office asked our group if anyone wanted to start today." there's no feeling like that huh?
Top of pageBottom of page

Lpg
Member
Username: Lpg

Post Number: 91
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dfd,
I worked at Trenton Engine from April-68 through March-71. None of us stayed more than 3 or 4 years.
I guess those days are gone forever. Now college and extensive training are required just to put a nut on a bolt.
About 5 years after I left the plant was gutted of all the old machines and all new state of the art equipment was installed. I was working at a machine tool shop at the time and one of our grinder hands quit and went over to Trenton Engine. He said they were just hacking the old machines apart and dumping them into railroad cars.
I have wondered at times if I should have stayed.