  Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 682 Registered: 12-2003 |
Obama has a white momma....is he still black! AHHHHHHHHHHH Blksoul_X and Zulu...is he still a brotha or do you "see" him differently now? I'll be so glad when we are all melted together and just one nice shade of gray, i.e. HUMANS not blacks, whites, browns, etc  | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1959 Registered: 11-2003 |
Signs that state "Black owned" are no different from ethnic named businesses that persons of the same ethnicity will search out and patronize. Problem for black people is that many have non-descript European last names, so they don't have the recognition. Italians don't patronize Italian nurseries or restaurants because of the Italian name? Yes, they do. Polish people do, Jewish people do, etc. Not all, but its significant... and I don't see anything wrong with it. Gays and Lesbians also promote Gay and Lesbian owned businesses with business directories of their own. Nothing wrong with that. Many groups do it... so, why such an issue when black people do it? Why are they suddenly the divisive people? | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 683 Registered: 12-2003 |
How would you feel if it said White owned? That's the problem. Whites feel slighted when other native born Americans, most "whites" are mutts and not strictly italian or polish or whatever, those days are fading fast, identify under a commonality instead of it being specific to one country. At least I know I do because if the complete opposite was performed by a white then it would be an abomination. Look at this thread, change the name, White Owned. Much more contentious. | ||
Roadmaster49 Member Username: Roadmaster49 Post Number: 85 Registered: 01-2008 |
I have no problem with a business saying you are Black owned, or American owned or whatever, because it's a business decision that demonstrates free enterprise. Detroit should promote it's black owned business success stories, kind of like you see occasionally a piece of Compton enterprise zone successes and Miami Cuban success. From: white pasty 44 year old Iowan. | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 453 Registered: 02-2008 |
Bussey, the problem is it doesn't have to be posted in the window that it's White owned. Many businesses in Detroit are still White owned many of the homes and Apartment buildings in Detroit are still White owned. I don't see the reason to constantly deny the detrimental effect that Some Whites have had on the African American community. If some don't understand what the importance of being Black owned means then maybe they need to learn their history on Black businesses in America. The riots of 67' weren't a bunch of Blacks tearing up Sh#t. It was a bubble that burst. On every turn was there was no equality. Black owned mean't at that time and to this day to mend that divide that was and still is being created. People manipulate anything that deals with African Americans owning anything, and try to degrade it to the point where if it's talked about on a thread people won't even support it. Ladia said: "other people make alot of money off the black community, we put clothes on their back and food on their tables.when they make money they take it to where they live to spend it,so they can at least have respect for the community of people where they make their living". I agree. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 7640 Registered: 02-2004 |
My relavtives used to own a bar in Medbury St. between E. Grand Blvd/ McDougall connector and Mt. Elliot St. It's a nice bar around the corner Most folks from the former Poletown area came to the bar to have some good time juice and then head on home. Now the business is gone and long with the memories of Poletown That bar was black owned and operated for over 25 years. | ||
Kevgoblu Member Username: Kevgoblu Post Number: 149 Registered: 02-2007 |
Little Mike sounds reasonable in his argument, but unfortunately he's looking at the situation from the most shallow of levels. So many people want to look at this type of situation from a personal perspective. Because you are white and weren't born into money, does not mean that the opportunities for blacks and whites are the same or should be addressed the same. According to Dr. Claud Anderson, President and CEO of The Harvest Institute, "Black Americans are a forgotten, non-competitive people. They are on the verge of becoming a permanent underclass. Four centuries of slavery and Jim Crow mal-distributed nearly 100 percent of this nation's wealth, income, resources, businesses, resources, and controls of all levels of government into the hands of the majority white society. Blacks do not own nor control a sufficient amount of anything to be a competitive group, in a competitive society. This nation has systematically forced them to practice capitalism without the benefit of capital. Black Americans are ill-equipped to compete and survive in the 21st century." Further...."It is nonsense to talk about equal opportunity for black people in a society in which racial monopolies guarantee that each succeeding generation of whites inherit approximately 98 percent of this nation's wealth and resources at birth. The amount of wealth that blacks own has been frozen. It was ½ of one percent on the eve of the Civil War and it remains approximately ½ of one percent 140 years later. Similarly, on the eve of the Black Civil Rights Movement, blacks earned 54 cents to the dollar. Today, half of a century later, they earn 57 cents for every dollar that a white earns. These inequalities exist in a society in which wealth and income shape opportunities." "It is one thing when blacks have difficult lives because of poor individual choices. It is quite another to have to live in a system that imposes inequities because of color. The wealth and income inequalities created by slavery and Jim Crowism have never been corrected and are the primary causes for the offspring of black slaves bearing six to eight times the burden of poverty, homelessness, unemployment, broken families, dysfunctional schools, poor health, drug abuse, self-hatred, and other pathologies. (http://www.harvestinstitute.or g/may2000.htm) The article was an argument for reparations. I personally do not believe that reparations are a viable fix for the racial disparities which exist in our country. But regardless of your opinion regarding reparations, it does not change the harsh economic reality that exists in our country today. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 969 Registered: 02-2007 |
Claude was and remains full of shit. Good science dictates that extraneous variables are controlled in analyses of group performance. Look at skill level, time in work force, punctuality, etc. and I'll bet that the 43-cent differential melts away. Claude is a preacher (figuratively), not a source of objective science. I don't accept the no-access-to-capital argument, either. Black America is poor, to be sure, but financing options exist for the local entrepreneur. The relevant impediments to small business success for blacks are (my analysis): working for one's self is a bitch... not for everyone (and too much for me, too); and, corporate entities are big and professional enough to crush independents of all colors. | ||
Hamtragedy Member Username: Hamtragedy Post Number: 269 Registered: 10-2007 |
Yeah, but in corpoarate, or even non-profit America, the plain ignorance that seems to cross all ages of white folks, from the white-haired supervisor to the mid twenties woman from Livonia, to the 30's white guy at the plant, breeds reluctance and skepticism when hiring, supervising, and promoting black employees. It's not the obvious "those people" comments anymore, it's the "I don't understand why they don't feel comfortable around me", or "how come they don't talk to me like they talk to their friends" comments. General questions like "should we call them African American or Black?" always made me wonder about the overall roundedness of the person who asked it. When one woman I worked with in HR in her late twenties used the word "colored," I had to wonder how one person could live so close to the city, yet so far away. Was everyone she grew up with that ignorant? To think that workplace equality exists is a gross misunderstanding. Where I worked there a few black women and men who held managerial positions, and had been there for a while. Did they have to prove themselves to get their positions? Sure, we all did. But I'll bet there was more skepticism when they hired in than there was for me, white-boy, and judging by the comments I heard along the way, I could almost guarantee it. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1106 Registered: 11-2003 |
Agreed with Hamtragedy. Great post. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 970 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ham, were talking about different things. I'm addressing the science of measurement and I think that you're somewhere off in the social sciences. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1107 Registered: 11-2003 |
You can't talk about this subject without talking about social sciences because almost all economic decisions are based upon social sciences, not necessarily just the numbers. Do you know anyone who is black and owns a business of any size, Craig? I know quite a few. And I can tell you, there are still large barriers to capital for a variety of reasons compared to whites. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 971 Registered: 02-2007 |
I'm not arguing that society is color-blind (signs like "black owned" make my point). Unless there truly is a conspiracy there cannot be unnatural impediments between blacks and capital. I've worked in the financial sector (analyst, not a bank teller) and have seen in action the safeguards to ensure that BUSINESS is color-blind. I don't believe that I know any noteworthy black entrepreneurs, so I'd like to hear some of the horror stories. Bear in mind, though, that this thread began as a discussion of a small business. I stand by my earlier point: Claude Anderson (among others) is not a good analyst. Finally, I don't have a problem with racial solidarity under a select set of circumstances: don't injure the property or dignity of another. I've patronized what I believe to be black-owned businesses, and whether or not I've returned has always depended upon the aforementioned and my sense of the value I've received. However, I'm not bullish on the future of many of these businesses for the reasons I cited earlier: independents everywhere are getting their asses handed to them by the big guys, be the independent a brick mason, a radiator shop, or a restaurant. | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 456 Registered: 02-2008 |
I think Ham was on point. Where I work it is the same thing White Americans hold higher positions, and African Americans hold jobs that pay less. This was also the case when I was in the Navy. I noticed for every one African American there was 20 White American, and this was an obsevation of First Class and Higher, and Officers were only a hand full. The higher you look on the officers side there was almost none, and this was 00' so I don't know what it is now but I imagine it is the same. I think it translates to business as well for ever mom and pop that is African American there are 20, ect. You will be hard pressed to find an African American owner of any Major Company in Michigan. There is no large employer whose owner is African American in any Major Industry. I think this is the main example of how shifted the playing field is. The fact that the scale is not even close to being tipped a 10th of the way in our favor is alarming as to how much this country has tried to and is continuing to oppress the African American race. It is not being said outloud anymore. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 1641 Registered: 08-2007 |
http://www.smallbusiness.com/w iki/Michigan_profile quote: http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms 2/gi_0199-395164/30-Michigan-B ased-Companies-Among.html quote: | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3426 Registered: 10-2003 |
Little mike and Duke Simms posts are quite entertaining, but reasonably short sighted. The term and whole reason for the effort of Black owned business is a response to the prior racism of days gone by. If you choose to ignore it in an effort to color blindness, then that is acceptable, but if you do so as a response toward some reverse racism, then you are sorely ignorant of the facts and choose a path that is sordid distortion of the truth. While it may be a joking matter to some now, the same effort is alive in various ethnic groups even today in the US. Irish, Poles, Jews, Hispanics, Arabs all still have some of this practice even today. Whatever pent up issues you may have, please dont short change yourself in this discourse by bemoning the facts when they are presented. | ||
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 109 Registered: 01-2008 |
.....and how about that Korean guy who opened the restaurant down the street and proudly proclaimed himself to be a Seoul Brother? | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3427 Registered: 10-2003 |
That he might be sludgedaddy, but I'm sure that he bought from other Koreans as well...unless he was from Pyongyang.... | ||
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 110 Registered: 01-2008 |
Do the dudes with the beards and the buggies proclaim themselves to be Amish owned or do they allow their appearance and their enterprise to speak for themselves? Business is only merited by it's success. Working sixteen hours a day, seven days a week to keep a business going is the key. Only it's location and patronage will determine it's success, not the color of an entrepeneur's skin or ethnic persuasion. Hard work is not defined by race, only by effort and results. | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 370 Registered: 05-2008 |
>>Italians don't patronize Italian nurseries or restaurants because of the Italian name? Yes, they do. Polish people do, Jewish people do, etc. Not all, but its significant... and I don't see anything wrong with it. << We don't patronize because of the name, we patronize because of the product. Tringali for cannoli (because they taste the way Aunt So-and-So made them), Polonia for pierogi because they taste like Mrs. X made, the Deutsches Haus for... If another ethnic group could make something I pined for, I'd be there. And Jewish people, well...Jews practice a religion, they're not a race. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3428 Registered: 10-2003 |
Correct Sludge daddy, now we get to the crux of the matter. You and and others automatically assume that if one says Black owned, that it is meant to give an unfair or undue advantage- or that it deserves special attention from whites as being an underrepresented group and deserves a hand up. Neither of these are true... Every business must stand on its own and survive in the market place, otherwise it is inefficient. Black owned buisnesses are self identifiers that let people know who owns the business. It doesnt ensure survival in the long run. Not every Black owned business chooses to indentify itself. Many of you have probably eaten in a black owned McDonalds or Burger King, Taco bell or Wendy's. Some of you may have bought a car from a Black owned car dealership. Beatrice Foods was owned by an African American, Symantec is owned by an African American, and so are several suppliers, trucking comapnies, and clothing lines. Now that freedoms and rights are guaranteed, having a competitive business is what is necessary to success. It being a Black owned one is just an identifer to the original ethnic group, much like an Irish pub. | ||
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 111 Registered: 01-2008 |
Mr. Zulu, I, for one ,am of the old school persuasion. Coming up from an impoverished childhood in Pennsylvania coal country, I was never on the receiving end of a handout. I found out that there are only two types of motivation: 1) Starvation or 2) A good kick in the ass. Handouts never work and only become the gift that keeps on giving...like venereal disease. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3429 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am glad for you...I come from an older school...Great Grand father a slave, Grandfather a coal miner and janitor, father an auto worker. I too know those motivations and dont expect hand outs, but will be proud of my heritage, just like you and yours... Welcome to America.. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 900 Registered: 11-2006 |
mmmm Barbecue. Sludgedaddy get off youre holier than thou judgemental ass and grab some barbecue at Sanders. Visit the Turkey grill and gobble down some down home cooked Turkey meatloaf! Given the chance for a 'handout' I would gladly thrust both hands forward. Ive never collected unemployment in over twenty years and have paid into the system enough to shamelessly get whats coming to me if I find myself fired,laid off or sick. Personally I dont feel offended or threatened by black owned. Advertising a store as black owned sets a good example for youth in neighborhoods where there is crushing poverty and general feelings of low self image. If it motivates through encouragement,envy or some other emotion,an entrepenurial spirit, all the better. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1386 Registered: 11-2006 |
I don't think that sludgedaddy is being judgemental. Just sayin'. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 719 Registered: 02-2007 |
This store is not open. Let me paint the picture for you. Black owned store has been open for years. Arabs open store Three or four blocks up. Black owned store closes doors every other year or so. Arabs supposedly has cheaper items. Black owned gets painted on store after Arab store catches fire. Supposedly a rift with some thugs. Arab store closed for a while opens back up. Black Owned store closed again. This time looks permanent. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3430 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kathinozarks, Sludgedaddy is not being judgemental; he is misapplying logic to the wrong scenario. Black owned businesses dont want hand outs. That's not what the term stands for. What the identifer stands for is to let African American consumers know that this establishment is run and operated by one of their own. Period. What sludgedaddy and others misappropriate is the notion that it means " give me a benefit", an unfair advantage, which is a misapplication of the truth. No one should feel threatened or offended by the term "black owned". Does anyone feel that way when they see an Irish pub, a German brewery, a Jewish Deli, or a Mexican resturant? Abosulutely not. Black people shop and purchase goods from a litany of places- and we dont patronize Black owned establishments with poor goods and services. The sooner that people realize this, the sooner they will get over their own trepidations about the term Black Owned businesses. | ||
Thames Member Username: Thames Post Number: 213 Registered: 02-2007 |
Cub, that's not a pretty picture!  | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1110 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have to admit, my radar is completely broken on this. I've shopped and been welcomed at quite a few black-owned establishments, and I'm about as white as they come. Probably my time in Manhattan has really screwed up my perception on quite a few issues, and living/working in the city for so long, so quite a few things that apparently bother a lot of other people are just ignored by me. I have had to re-learn due to necessity what the norms of this region are, even though I may not follow them myself. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1389 Registered: 11-2006 |
.....Sludgedaddy get off youre holier than thou judgemental ass...... That was part of Terryh's comment to Sludge. That's all I was saying, nothing else. I really don't want to have any comment on the black owned discussion. |
