 
Alsodave
Member
Username: Alsodave
Post Number: 1146
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 9:10 am: |    |
DV, great post. I wonder how many people carry those norms with them when they move away from the region, or the state. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2559
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 7:59 pm: | |
I logged in with a jesting post, earlier, but I feel a strong wish to say, in complete seriousness, a couple of things.
1) I'm not afraid of information. I'm not going to ask my wife if she ever feels any sense of attraction to any of the guys that she runs across during the course of her daily activities, but generally speaking, information is O.K. with me.
I count "Black Owned," on a store's wall, as information. I see nothing exclusionary about it. If something about it makes you want to shop there, well good, then. If something about it bugs, or offends, you to the extent that you do not want to shop there, that's fine, too.
The owner of the store, unless the owner is a moron, already knows that the sign will attract some folks, and push away some others. It's the owner's store, the owner's choice, and the owner's gamble.
As far as I'm concerned, if you own the joint, you can have a sign that says "No 285-Pound Women In Tube-Tops Hollering 'I Got To Get My Drink On,'" for all I care.
2) Spare us the "what if the sign said 'White Owned' rubbish. You cannot "reverse polarities" on the black/white thing in America, unless you want to assert deeply flawed arguments which make very little sense. It goes directly back to one of the issues surrounding the rhymes-with-trigger word. Black folks using it is an entirely different matter than white folks using it. The old "what's good for the goose is also good for the gander" saying does not apply here. If you do not already recognize, and understand, the truth in what I just wrote, you do not possess even a basic, primary understanding of Race In America, and any explanation of my remarks would be, almost certainly, a fruitless waste of time. |
Elimarr
Member
Username: Elimarr
Post Number: 65
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 8:50 pm: | |
Ravine,
I think your point #2, about not being able to "reverse polarities" does have some truth to it. We can all stick around til 2049, when it is calculated that Whites will no longer be a majority to Non-Whites (Black, Hispanic & Asian combined) and we'll see if the "White-Owned" signs start popping up. Remind me to post something if that happens, will you? |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2561
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 8:58 pm: | |
Elimarr, by that time, I will be very, very old, though it is possible that I will still be around, albeit in a state of accelerated decay. You may have to remind me to remind you. |
Alsodave
Member
Username: Alsodave
Post Number: 1148
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 11:46 pm: | |
41 years until whites are no longer a majority still doesn't equal 400+ years of slavery, genocide and institutional racism.
So let's post back on this in 2408 (give or take a few years).  |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1703
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 12:09 am: | |
You are free to choose who to do business with, it's America. It's sad that there's not more black owned businesses in the city. |
Elimarr
Member
Username: Elimarr
Post Number: 67
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 12:13 am: | |
I am not astute enough to suggest a real solution to the ongoing lack of equality and/or racial harmony. I watch those inter-racial panel discussions on C-Span where everyone airs their views (all different) and they stick firmly to them, with no one changing their opinions. So, maybe it's going to take an Alien Invasion to unite us and bring out the Humanity in us all. And then after the invasion, we all get to put out the "Human-Owned" signs.
(Remember, I said I didn't have a REAL solution.) |
Elimarr
Member
Username: Elimarr
Post Number: 69
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 11:02 am: | |
Still giving this topic thought...
I think if an owner mentions race in a sign, then yes, it is about a racial divide and separation. If this owner wanted the support from the neighborhood, I think "locally-owned" is a better way to accomplish that, and would definitely go over better in a mixed neighborhood. |
East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1974
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 11:45 am: | |
Unfortunately, many Black people do not have the ability to relate themselves by name or notion to a particular "old country" as do White people.
So, an Italian guy puts up his pizza shop and its named with an Italian name and Italians shop there. (And yes, they do)
A Black guy puts up his pizza shop and its named what? Smith's Pizza? If he dares say "Black owned" then its suddenly a racial issue... but maybe he would prefer to put up a Kenyan name if he was afforded the luxury of actually knowing his ancestors were from Kenya instead of just slaves from a random African location. (Of course, lets not get into the people who bristle at African names).
"Black owned" doesnt mean "Not White owned"... it means someone who is Black. Just as "Dino's Pizza" doesnt mean "Not Polish owned" to anyone.
The basic issue is of "Black" meaning "Not White" to some of the White people here who do not have the experience to think about it enough. It isnt about race, but people have knee jerk reactions and think it is. |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 727
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 12:49 pm: | |
What mixed neighborhood Elimarr? |
Elimarr
Member
Username: Elimarr
Post Number: 71
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 2:27 pm: | |
Just stating the preference for "locally-owned" for use in ANY neighborhood, if a sign needs to be even used in the first place. |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 729
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 2:56 pm: | |
I get it. It would have been better to have it read "I live in this neighborhood not Dearborn". Right. We used to have a number of black owned corner stores. No offense to Arab owned stores but I can put them in thesame category as WalMart. They set up shop and lower prices(most dont have to pay taxes). Then when other businesses cant compete they are left as thhe monopoly. |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 209
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 3:18 pm: | |
^ What is the name of the category that Arabs and WalMart are in again? I always forget that one...
At least you said "no offense".
Very telling. Very telling, indeed. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2563
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 6:12 pm: | |
Cub, why do you say, "most don't have to pay taxes?" |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 852
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 8:54 pm: | |
In my mind the term for the category would be usurpers, as they usually come in and take over, with tax breaks that the current owners are not privy to and which makes it exceedingly harder for local ownership to survive. They are also often allowed to succeed due to "legal loopholes" that exist for them and not for the "little guy", who is at risk of being usurped. |
Blksoul_x
Member
Username: Blksoul_x
Post Number: 303
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 10:17 pm: | |
Bussey stated...
quote:Why do you try so hard to sound intelligent and then use the phrase LEFTED-OVER???
I usually don't comment on simple 12th grade comments like the above, but in this case I've got to give as much as you gave.
What is interesting is that you or 'they' believe by trying to point out that I mis-used, or mis-termed a phrase, lefted-over vs. left-over, (and thank you by the way, for pointing that out, even though many knew what I meant)...that's no harm or no foul...I don't mind 'basic white people' correcting me, because I know 'they' don't know how to properly phrase 'he be', 'she be', 'be gonna', etc, so that ethnicity's, and racial intimacies may sometimes be communicated in dialectical transformations, that are not obvious to those extraneous to our villages...you dig what I be say'n?
In other-words, outside of the community, it may appear that, in certain context's you or 'they' may not know much about certain word phrases and usages within the Black experience....to be sure, I'm not mad at that!
But what I find very problematic with such priggery as the above quote, is the over-weaning, the arrogance, the unabashed hubris, and the snide and condescending way in which it was offered to my post.
Then to, perhaps it-is-what-it-is...that is the entire bulwark of white supremacy, the sense of superiority of, 'I gonna correct you and show that you are wrong', that grows out of the inability to acknowledge superior intelligence in Black people, or at least equal ability to parse the nuances and complexities of the Black experience__go figure!
But I ain't mad atcha!
Otherwise, I'm enjoying this thread...Zulu, Alsodave...great points!
blksoul_atcha!
Founder of the BJL
Obama 08' |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 732
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 11:17 pm: | |
Ravine, I have been told that Arabs dont pay taxes for some number of years. Thats the reason you see a change over in ownership. |
Duke_sims
Member
Username: Duke_sims
Post Number: 47
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 11:18 pm: | |
blksoul, you can consult all the dictionaries in the world while assembling a post; you still sound like an idiot. |
Whittier70
Member
Username: Whittier70
Post Number: 188
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 11:25 pm: | |
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 5:18 pm
it only took him 3 days this time |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 733
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 11:31 pm: | |
Ragged, The category that comes into a neighborhood and takes over. Running others out of business. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2766
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 3:33 am: | |
I have also heard that Arabs don't pay taxes. I want to believe that this is an urban-legend. So, is there anyone on this forum that can verify as either true or false the belief that
Arabs don't pay taxes? Thanks. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2565
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:39 am: | |
Yeah, Cub, to be straight with you, your saying that you "have been told" doesn't exactly provide an air-tight back-up to your statement, one which you made with a certain matter-of-factness but now appears to have been founded on hearsay evidence.
It may be the truth, for all I know, but you based part of a rather strong assertion on it, and that's what caught my eye. If it comes down to being based on what you "have been told," I don't think your statement has any merit, and it probably should have been diverted into your personal recycle bin. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1656
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 6:21 am: | |
wow ravine, someone pee into your cornflakes this morning? so chipper where ever you post. |
Peachlaser
Member
Username: Peachlaser
Post Number: 214
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 7:06 am: | |
I'll add my 2¢ worth. I'm white (with very poor beginnings) and have owned my own business for 23 years.
For each of those 23 years I've worked harder than any three people I know, sometimes working 6-7 days a week and anywhere from 50 to 65 hrs. a week. For each of those 23 years, I have attempted to find investment. When I began my business, I went to my bank and they had no idea what computers and software were and didn't want to touch me. This was during the time of Reagan and I then went to the SBA. There I was told they had no money because it was all being used to build up the military. Then I went to my bank again since all SBA loans were being directed to the private sector. When I went back to the bank, the S&L Crisis hit and I was told that banks were becoming even more stricter. All this time I was writing software for major corporations helping them make or save 10's or even 100's of millions of dollars.
The banks told me that I needed to go to a Venture Capitalist. I only needed $150,000 but was told that they would give me $20 million and I would get 1% equity in the resulting company! Didn't need or want that, so kept looking. One year while working 6-7 days a week, my salary for the year was a whopping $200! I thought that was bad until I worked one year even harder and my salary was $0 for the year. Since no one else was believing in us, we totally financed our own software products. One took us over 10,000 hours of work with two of us working on it while I worked on it over a 12 year period. We have now sold it into over 55 countries and people all around the world are healthier, happier and more able to care for themselves because of it. We sell this software for $80 a copy. I calculate that it has taken us $1,000 to produce each copy. But, we still have hope. I have given up on being able to retire and now realize that I will probably be working until I die. I'm watching all my friends prepare for retirement or retire completely and my hope is that I can cut back to 40 hrs. a week in my later years.
As I have said, I am white and doors have been closed to me for 23 years. I have almost given up many times, but we keep working everyday. I've started working today at 5 AM and will probably be working to 6 PM today. So, when I hear that the reason is race when people don't get investment, etc., I can only sigh.
My point is that I think race gets thrown into the picture as the reason people don't get investment and support, etc., when it should not. I just wanted to offer my example as a poor white guy who became an entrepreneur working to help make the world a better place even though investors have been narrow-minded, short-sighted and ignorant. |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 734
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 2:08 pm: | |
I dont have to do this but i will. I dont usually comment on threads of this nature unless I am asking for info or I have first hand knowledge. Saying what "i was told" was most definitely first hand being that I live pretty close, my brother and son works for an Arab owned store, I personally know a lender of a bank that deals with them and have broken bread on many occasions with the family who owns the "black owned" store/building. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2569
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 6:20 pm: | |
Cub, I appreciate your response, and I hope you do not feel as though I was attacking you. I mean no disrespect; it is just that you made a rather large statement and then backed it up with a rather small defense. Now, you have elaborated, somewhat, which is helpful, but I would still like to hear from others who also may have some knowledge of this matter.
Perhaps Umbound will stop by. I recognize that Umbound puts a strong emphasis on the difference between "Chaldean" and "Arab," and I get that, but in this case, that difference may not prevent Umbound from being able to make a relevant comment on this issue. |
Thames
Member
Username: Thames
Post Number: 214
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 7:10 pm: | |
Snopes.com says the tax thing is urban legend. ?? |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 735
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 7:29 pm: | |
My source is Arab not Chaldean. And they have some designation were they can file exempt where as we can not. No Disrespect taken. |
Pkbroch
Member
Username: Pkbroch
Post Number: 81
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 7:36 pm: | |
Are you talking about personal or Corp. income taxes. Please explain , are they business taxes and what kind. There are many different kinds of taxes. |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 736
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 7:40 pm: | |
He didnt elaborate in our conversation and at that time I didnt feel like I needed him to.LOL!
But I will see him soon and ask. He did not seem to be pulling my leg. I thought we were having an honest and serious conversation. |
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