  Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 557 Registered: 11-2003 |
http://www.mlive.com/news/bcti mes/index.ssf?/base/news-12/12 26420125285740.xml&coll=4 | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 512 Registered: 08-2008 |
Very, very sad. I watched her for years. She was an old timer when I was a kid. Shame. Thanks for the post. | ||
Sciencefair Member Username: Sciencefair Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2007 |
Very sad. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1414 Registered: 04-2005 |
pics! http://www.boatnerd.com/pictur es/fleet/emford.htm | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2846 Registered: 11-2007 |
On the "Amazing Vacation Homes" show on HGTV, they had a laker that was headed to the scrap yard. When someone learned it was Henry Fords "flagship", he had it cut right behind the forward super structure and moved to a location on a cliff overlooking Lake Erie for a getaway dream house. Mahogany cabins, brass and gold fixtures, and a Pewabic fireplace were all restored. Thomas Edison, Will Rodgers, and others were frequent guests with Mr. Ford while the laker plied it's trade. What a great retirement for an old lady! I tried to Google information on it, but was unsuccessful. Can someone find a pic? | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 350 Registered: 10-2007 |
Sure, no problem. This is in Put-in-Bay somewhere, the Benson Ford.  Here's the link: http://www.putinbayphotos.com/freighter/freighter.htm Also another view: http://www.aerialpics.com/H/BensonFord.html (Message edited by townonenorth on November 14, 2008) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9117 Registered: 10-2003 |
Very very cool. Hooray for eccentric rich people. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2848 Registered: 11-2007 |
Thanks Town - I was fascinated about that ever since I saw the program. Probably the most unusual "cottage" in the Great Lakes area. The owner can stand at the helm, and see nothing but water ahead of him. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 515 Registered: 08-2008 |
Townonenorth, been there many times on my way to and from Pelee Island. Never took a photo. Thanks so much for this great one. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 351 Registered: 10-2007 |
Well, thanks to all of you for letting me know of it's existence! I would have never heard of this except for this board. | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 299 Registered: 08-2005 |
For those who are interested, there is another vessel whose bow is being turned into a cottage in DeTour, Michigan, in the U.P. Marc & Jill VanderMeulen, from Holland, Michigan, have undertaken the project. It’s sitting on property next to their summer cottage. http://www.boatnerd.com/news/n ewsthumbs/newsthumbs_harriman. htm This is not a rich couple, but they don’t have kids, so they do have more disposable income. Also, they’re doing most of the work themselves, so that saves money. If you drop by the place when they’re around, they’ll likely give you a tour. They’re really nice people. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 572 Registered: 09-2004 |
Yes, the project they are doing is actually on a former fleetmate of the EM Ford. Both the Ford and the Lewis G. Harriman were members of the Huron-Portland Cement Company, plying the Great Lakes under the same colors for a number of years. Such a shame the EM didn't make it. Manager ILM kept the boat in great shape through it's 12 year layup, and would have been able to fit it out to run in a short amount of time if it were needed.... including it's original Quadruple Expansion Steam Engine (think smaller version of the engines seen in Titanic). It's a sad day in Great Lakes history. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1416 Registered: 04-2005 |
i believe the ss william clay ford pilot house is similarly installed, overlooking the waters of the detroit river, at the dossin conservancy on belle isle - which is open to the public. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 886 Registered: 08-2006 |
Oh boy, I get to tell sea stories. Maybe it was 1969 that I worked on the E.M. Ford. For some forgotten reason I was working on Great Lake freighters that fall instead of attending Wayne State. I had a Z card so I went to the Seafarers' downriver hall and picked up a job on Huron Cement's J.B. Ford that had docked in Alpena. Greyhound took me there. When I got there, the Company decided to lay up the J.B. Ford for the rest of the year. I hired on as a “wiper” meaning, in this case, that sections of floor grate were removed in the engine room so I could go underneath and fill five gallon buckets with oil that had dripped through the grate over the year. I would tie rags over my head to reduce the oil in my hair. There was no steam so there was no heat or plumbing on this boat in November. There were two double bunks in my room. The other guys lived in Alpena so I had the room to myself. One of them, DiRosi, who proudly referred to himself as a “northern hillbilly” came in the room every morning , opened his locker, took a long swig, and would then leave the room without closing the door. This got old in a hurry. The E.M. Ford was always shorthanded but the J.B.'s crew kept telling me that it was hard work on the E.M. Ford. One night the bartender of the nearest bar surprised me with a phone call. It was the Company asking me to work on the E.M. Ford. It sounded like a reasonable idea at the time. My job title on the E.M. Ford was “coal passer”. That means I shoveled coal into furnaces 12 hours a day 7 days a week because that department was indeed shorthanded. The fire hole, or fire hold, where I spent most of my hours was a room about 22' long and 15' wide. Two furnace doors were on each of the long walls, and a coal chute was on one end of the room and a big barrel of water. The fireman, my boss, and I would take turns shoveling coal into furnaces trying to keep the steam gage as close to the red line as possible. If we shoveled too much in we would “blow the stack” - meaning, trip a pressure relief valve. The boat would them slow down and its course would have to be replotted. We would hear about it the next time we left the fire hole. On every six hour shift, it was the coal passer's job to pull the ashes and the fireman's job to pull the fire. Using a wide hoe, the fireman would scrape out about a cubic foot of red hot clinkers. As soon as that hit the floor, I would douse it with a pail of water. Maybe 6 buckets of water hit the floor in front of each door. There was no drain because the steel plate floor was hot enough to almost instantly steam it all away. I witnessed one of the two toughest feats of work I've ever seen in that room. A steam pipe needed replacing under the steel plate floor. The third engineer had to go underneath with monkey wrenches and remove a section of rusty pipe. It must have been 140 degrees under there. He would come out every five minutes because of the heat. His advice to me was to stay in school. When I arrived on the E.M. Ford, I noticed some guys who showed up in the galley looking like raccoons with dark circles around their eyes. A week later, I was one of them. It turned out that if the skin around they eyes was scrubbed off after every shift, the skin would be abraded by coal dust into a rash. So that skin was just dabbed unless we were in port. The food was excellent on the E.M. Ford. The Company entertained clients by sending them on cruises so the best cooks were on the E.M. Ford. The guests ate with the officers and, if female, were much ogled by the crew. An extra deck was built on the front of the boat to accommodate company guests. This made the boat top heavy so it rolled quite a bit in storms. We hardly noticed storms down in the fire hole because we were under the water line. Our trips tended to be to places like Saginaw because the smaller boat could go up narrow rivers with drawbridges.  My favorite E.M. Ford photo | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2849 Registered: 11-2007 |
Too bad it could not be saved for some other use. If I had the money, that would make for an unusual bed and breakfast place, much like the above freighter/home projects. Too bad it's just going to be scrap metal now. Oladub, I tried getting into the maritime union up in Algonac after my hitch in the Navy in 1978. Unless you knew someone, it was tough to get work there. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 522 Registered: 08-2008 |
Thecarl, you're correct. Thanks for calling our attention to it. I've been there on many occasions. I also watched as the pilothouse sat in the yard at Detroit Marine Terminals on the Rouge River for many years, awaiting its destination at the Dossin Museum. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 523 Registered: 08-2008 |
Oladub, thank you for the great, great story and photo. I'll read it again tonight and tomorrow. Your story evokes adventure and history. Don't hesitate to tell of your experiences or inform me of your postings on other websites. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 888 Registered: 08-2006 |
Bigb23, This is how I got a Z card. The Seafarers' union used to have a special deal with the owners of the SS South America. College students were hired on the South America to cater to the tourists. We paid union dues but did not receive anywhere near union pay. The deal was that you had to have a job in writing before the Coast Guard would issue a Z card. The catch 22 was that you had to have a Z card before you could work on a freighter. In '67, I applied but the U of M kids had already taken all the jobs on the South America by the time Wayne State let out so I got a job unloading busses at Greyhound instead. After the riot, Greyhound laid off over forty of us. I went back to the shipping company and the agent promised me the best job available and the pay was "two twenty eight" he said. I told him that was more than I was making a week at Greyhound. He didn't reply. A couple of days later the South America docked. The best job turned out to be washing lemonade glasses in the galley and the pay was $228/month, not week, for a seven day work week before union dues were subtracted. My bunk was next to the bunk of "Dirty John" with a blanket for separation. "Dirty John" was a derelict who the rest of the crew had previously forced into the shower because of his odor I was told. The shower was a slimy enough affair anyway. Thongs required. All of the male galley crew was quartered below the waterline above the screw. Thu-thump, thu-thump... but if it stopped, I startled awake. The South America was well out into the Detroit River before I realized that I had been verbally Shanghaid by the shipping agent. We were heading to Expo in Montreal. When I got back to Detroit I quit and got a job the next day on a freighter now having a Z card. There was the incident with Willy and the Montreal Police Department and the unrelated story of how Borregard's body had to be snuck off the ship so as not to upset the tourists but those sea stories are outside addressing the matter of Z cards. 1kielsondrive, Thanks, My wife and kids , on the other hand, can probably recite some of my old stories. One of the most marvelous things of working on those (5) boats was sitting at the galley table late at night listening to "sea stories" that the guys told. They usually had to do with things that happened when docked. I listened to detailed stories about an Argentine jail, an upscale Montreal whore house, and NYC flop houses in the depression. Then I would go back to college and have some English professor getting all excited about something by Emily Dickenson. If they only knew how sheltered and boring they sounded after hearing months of sea stories.  On the poop deck of the SS South America 1967. The college students who worked in the kitchen had this space to recreate. We were allowed only to use one set of stairs from our quarters to prevent us from mixing with the tourists. The female college students had to wear smocks in between. My brownie camera photo. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 529 Registered: 08-2008 |
Oladub, another great story and a very, very cool photo. You mentioned the Union Hall downriver. Did you work out of the Seafarers Hall in River Rouge? | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 900 Registered: 08-2006 |
Yup, I didn't remember which downriver suburb but I sat around in there a few times and can draw the floor plan. The hall had previously been a car dealership. Guys waiting for jobs sat around in the show room on old chairs. They smoked, played cards, and scanned through the old magazines. (Note (today's vocabulary): the magazines that circulated on every boat were called "f--- books" and were sometimes purchased on the bum boats in Toledo harbor and probably Duluth's.) A shipping agent sat behind sort of a bank teller window and would announce any new job coming up or down the river. There was a blackboard or something listing the approximate times of boats coming by. The jobs were given to whoever was sitting there the longest that was rated for the particular job. If you wandered off to get lunch, a job might go to the next guy. Some guys would pass over jobs if they didn't like the boat. George Steinbrenner's Cleveland-Cliff boats, for instance, had a reputation for providing lousy food. During the Vietnam war there was a labor shortage in shipping so jobs were very available. The union executives parked their Cadillacs and cabin cruisers in the car repair part of the hall. Most jobs filled from the hall were on boats passing through the Detroit River. There was a U.S. Mail boat that went out to meet all passing boats. The mail boat would take crew members to and from the passing freighters. The mail boat, it looked like a little tug boat, would steer up against the freighter. A step ladder was dropped over the side to the deck of the mail boat. Crew members would scramble up the ladder that was jerking up and down as the waves lifted and dropped the mail boat. Meanwhile a five gallon bucket was lowered and raised with incoming and outgoing mail and an order for Detroit newspapers with the cash to pay for them. It was a strange feeling once up the ladder and on deck to be dumped into this community of people one didn't know off to who knows where. I only did this a couple of times. On one such mail boat trip, the wife and daughter of one of the officers came along on the mail boat. I made it up the ladder ok. The daughter came up next. As she was coming up, the mail boat's prow separated from the freighter. The top of the ladder instead of being 6 foot above the rail pulled away to where only about a foot of the ladder was still above the rail. The girl froze midway up the ladder with churning waves underneath her. The mail boat snugged back to the freighter so nothing came of the incident. Looking for a picture of a bum boat I came up with this instead. See pages 175-176. Someone else from Wayne State out there when I was. http://tinyurl.com/5qmmam I knew two other college guys that worked on boats. One was Eddie Paul of Outer Drive near E. Warren. He got to work on a beer boat going to Germany. The other was my best friend, a U of M student, who was a deckhand on the Sylvania when it sank docking in Port Huron partly his fault as he tells it. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 537 Registered: 08-2008 |
Oladub, the Union Hall was formerly Kramer Eberts Pontiac dealer in River Rouge on West Jefferson at Anchor Street. You described it exactly as I remember. I knew your Union boss. Did you ever go across the street to the Rouge Hotel? It was a first class restaurant/lounge with great mix of people from all walks of life. Did you hit any of the bars in the area? I had friends who worked out of that hall. I sold a motorcycle to a sailor friend and he kept it in the Union garage while on the boats. Yes, a lot of sailors were sought after because of the war in Vietnam. I personally had the opportunity to ship out and I knew a few who did because they had military deferments. The mail boat you mentioned is the J.W.Westcott. It's still running. You can google it and see pictures or try boatnerd.com. A little known mistake/fact about that Union Hall is when Gordon Lightfoot sings about a hall in Detroit in his song of the Edmund Fitzgerald, the Union Hall is correctly located in River Rouge. It was located at that dealership until a few years later when the Union moved to Algonac, MI. The Union boss was a neighbor of mine for many years. I won't mention his name, you can if you like. I could tell a whole raft of stories about him. Don't let me hold you back from telling any. I'd enjoy it immensely. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 538 Registered: 08-2008 |
My kids can recite my stories also. They just roll their eyes when I get started. Ha. As long as I can entertain myself, which isn't difficult to do, I'll keep telling stories. (Message edited by 1KielsonDrive on November 17, 2008) | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 539 Registered: 08-2008 |
Oladub, read, 'Eight Steamboats, Sailing Through the Sixties' by Patrick Livingston, if you haven't already. It's a very good story of our era, Great Lakes Shipping and Detroit. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1538 Registered: 11-2003 |
That use of the Benson Ford's forward section is quite startling and unique! Other boats in the FoMoCo fleet included Henry Ford II, William Clay Ford, and John Dykstra. And everybody: to contract "it is," you type "it's." For the possessive, you type "its." | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 542 Registered: 08-2008 |
Burnsie dood, this ain't not english classs. It(')s posting on the internet, quickly - having conversations. Hit and miss. Guerilla discussions. Doo not sweat it, dood. You aint necessarily smarter then anyone else, here. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2853 Registered: 11-2007 |
 | ||
Ragtoplover59 Member Username: Ragtoplover59 Post Number: 390 Registered: 09-2006 |
Reading Oladub's post, I thought I was reading Eight Steamboats again ! Great stories. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 545 Registered: 08-2008 |
Ragto, I'll second that. I felt the same way and you said it. Thanks. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1540 Registered: 11-2003 |
If it's any consolation, 99% of the time when I see an it's/its mixup, I don't say anything. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 904 Registered: 08-2006 |
1kielsondrive, I didn't partake in much of anything at the hall. If I didn't get a job on day, I would go home to the east side and show up again in the morning. As a student, I didn't know the union leaders but gratefully paid them their $75/month dues. One of the boats I worked on had a new color TV at the end of the galley table. The Company had provided a black and white TV. The crew kept demanding a color TV. In Chicago, somehow the TV screen got smashed. The union contract said the boat couldn't move unless there was a TV. The officers somehow rounded up a new color TV to be able to leave port. Gotta love unions. Hee-Haw was the crew's most popular program. Sometimes we would start watching a movie if we were going by Detroit or Port Huron but it would always fade out before ending. The link in my post 900 was to the “Eight Steamboats” book which I never knew about until stumbling upon it. The author tells better sea stories because he wrote them down right away instead of telling them forty years later with a fuzzy memory filter. He was on the South America earlier than I was in 1967. You didn't make it clear if you partook in your opportunity to ship out. If you did, do share your stories. We will be more appreciative than the kids. I've spent too many years doing “land jobs” and am up for sea stories. The trouble with being 40 years older is that I am no longer doing enough stupid things worthy to later tell as stories. I did manage to cause a stir in the third row of a John McCain rally causing him to address personally me this year but situations like that happen less frequently than when living with mariners. Worse yet, my grown kids weren't too impressed although I think my wife, a once upon a time Santa Cruz hippie, was. The galley, I should explain to anyone interested, was the room where we ate. There was a long table that sat about 8-10 on each side. At the end of the table was the TV. On a side wall was a door opening to the kitchen. Next to that door was a blackboard listing food available at that meal. At dinner, there were always two entres. The cook would stand in the door opening. Crew members would read off the things they wanted and the cook would bring back something similar to what they ordered. The galley was open 24 hours a day except when tables had to be set up. Three meals were served. Any other time, crew members could hang out there, watch tv, tell stories, play cards, etc.. Fresh donuts and coffee were always available as well as leftovers in the fridge. Only once while I worked on boats was a meal canceled because of storms. On Thanksgiving, on the John J. Boland the table was set with a beer can and a cigar next to each plate. On one boat there was a college kid that all the crew members derisively called 'Numbnuts' – even to his face. I asked what the deal was. It seems that there had been a lifeboat drill and when Numbnuts relieved himself over the side, the wind blew it far enough that the guys in the lifeboat were sprayed. Hence, “Numbnuts”. At dinner one night, Numbnuts came into the galley and Finn , the cook, took his order. When Finn brought back the dinner, Numbnuts said, “I'd like some more potatoes” as if he was in a restaurant or something. Finn took his plate back into the kitchen and returned it with a pile of potatoes six inches high covering everything. Numbnuts left the galley and everyone had a good laugh. Numbnuts quit at the next port. Here I am rambling but more must be said of Finn. Finn was a teetotaler from the UP. He had previously drank a lot but gave it up after an incident in Chicago. He had gone drinking with a crew in Chicago and the last he remembered he was in a bar.... until he woke up in a downtown alley early one Sunday morning wearing nothing but a barrel. That's when he gave up drinking. Could have been worse. My friend worked on a boat with a guy covered from head to toe with tattoos that he didn't remember receiving after drinking.  Lifeboat drill on the Wm. H. Donner 1969. The guy facing the camera, next to the fellow with the flare gun was a member of the Buffalo Hell's Angel chapter. My brownie camera photo. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 555 Registered: 08-2008 |
Ola, here's another one for you. I just finished it a few minutes ago: 'Ninety Years Crossing Lake Michigan. The History of the Ann Arbor Car Ferries' by Grant Brown Jr. Excellent! More stories, please. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 556 Registered: 08-2008 |
Ola, here's another one for you, I just finished it a few minutes ago. 'Ninety Years Crossing Lake Michigan, The History of the Ann Arbor Car Ferries' by Grant Brown Jr. Excellent! More stories, please? | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 562 Registered: 08-2008 |
Ola, I never sailed, but I was on board a number of boats for visits and short rides. Usually with friends who were either sailors, shipping company execs or managers. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 2024 Registered: 08-2006 |
Great stories Ola! My deceased Uncle Gordy from the UP worked the ships. I'm sure he would had some good stories to share. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1449 Registered: 04-2005 |
anyone familiar with the loggins and messina song, "vahevala?" http://www.lyricsdownload.com/ loggins-and-messina-vahevala-l yrics.html i heard it today and instantly thought of this thread. sheesh, i really ought to expand my social circle! | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 919 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thecarl, My favorite sailing song is Stan Rogers' "Barrett's Privateers" about a broken man on a Halifax pier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl-CfQvz21Y&NR=1 I remember singing "The ship John B." while aboard the John J. Boland. Couldn't resist. At night, when I wasn't working, I went up to the bow. Its totally dark up there and the pilot house above is unlit at night. The waves made by the bow are the only sound standing there in windy blackness. I was careful not to sing that song loud enough for any one to hear. It would've be considered wussy. I don't remember any group singing on the boats except on the South America, the college students who waited tables put on sort of a cabaret show for the passengers. The company outfitted the girls in outfits that would have surprised their parents. I was the lemonade glass washer working with Willie, Dirty John, and another derelict and was never asked to participate. I might as well tell about what happened to Willie on that trip. Willie was a young black guy about college age. All the way to Montreal he kept repeating, "When I get to Montreal, them girls gonna be standing in line, they're gonna be standing in line" Doing the dishes after every meal we had to listen to Willie crowing about his prowess. "They're gonna be standing in line for Willie." After arriving in Montreal, no noon meal were served. At dinner, Willie went missing. He didn't come back to work the evening shift. Breakfast and dinner the next day - no Willie. We started thinking that maybe Willie was having a good time. On the third day in Montreal - same thing - no Willie. Finally it was time to leave Montreal. As the first cables were being disconnected from the docks, three Montreal police cars approached the South America. Willie popped out of one of the police cars with two officers who walked him up the gang plank. Then a Montreal police boat showed up and escorted the South America for about 30 minutes after we left the dock. The next morning, while washing dishes, Willie explained to us that he was just standing on a corner on Rue Ste. Catherine when a police car pulled up to the curb and the police said something to him in French. The police circled the block and arrested Willie, he said. I never found out if there was any more to it than loitering but wondered why a loiterer deserves three police cars and a police boat escort. Maybe the shipping company new more than me. At the first American port, Ogdensburg, NY, Willie was dumped off. Note: On that trip, we heard on the news that our sister ship the SS North America sunk being towed to New Jersey on the Atlantic. I met a girl working as a waitress on the SS Argentina docked near us in Montreal. She was on a round the world cruise. She said the North America was going to New Jersey to a Union place there to 'train waitresses'. She said that girls that slept with the union bosses there during training found employment sooner on cruise ships. 1kielsondrive, Still looking forward to one of the stories your kids roll their eyes at. Better yet, one you never told your kids.  Docked for three days at a Montreal pier 1967. My Brownie camera photo. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 569 Registered: 08-2008 |
Stan Rogers was a great singer. Every now and then Matt Watroba plays some of his music. Is Garnet Rogers his son? |
