  The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 194 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 164.76.176.245 |
Thursday, March 10, 2005 Add Racism, Dishonesty to McPhail's Resume Detroit mayoral candidate participates in offensive "Sambo" awards and lies about interview remarks The Detroit News ... This episode caps a bizarre career for McPhail in which she repeatedly has had to explain away goofy and inappropriate behavior. There was, for example, her accusation that Kilpatrick had hot-wired her City Council chair; the near fisticuffs with the late Councilwoman Kay Everett during a public meeting, and her campaign against former Mayor Dennis Archer, whom she labeled the white man's candidate. She claims not to be a nut, but she keeps acting like one. And yet in the current mayoral campaign, she asks Detroiters to "erase what you think you know about Sharon McPhail." It is impossible to erase those negative impressions when McPhail keeps reinforcing them. This page tried to give her a little credit in Wednesday's newspaper after she stopped by for an introductory visit. McPhail started her on-the-record comments by saying the city's 18,000-person work force was too large for its population. We agreed and asked for her thoughts on the appropriate number of employees. "Twelve thousand," she answered, without prompting and later added she would accomplish the one-third reduction in her first year. She then spent the next 15 minutes talking about ways to carry out the cuts, and the impact her willingness to make "tough choices" would have on the mayoral campaign. Her sidekick, Benny Napoleon, even calculated the savings of the work force reduction, saying that at an average wage and benefit cost of $70,000 per worker, "we'd save $250 million to $300 million a year." (We leave it to Napoleon to explain the math.) We applauded McPhail's willingness to put such a bold number on the table. But then she went on the radio Wednesday morning, telling WCHB's Mildred Gaddis that she never said what she said. She accused The Detroit News of making it all up. Sharon McPhail is a liar. She is also apparently a racist. And not too bright. So we'll wade into the Detroit mayoral race earlier than usual to say Sharon McPhail repeatedly acts in ways that cast grave doubt on whether she has the maturity or is responsible enough to lead a major city, let alone sit on its council. http://www.detnews.com/2005/ed itorial/0503/10/A10-112821.htm I included the bottom part of the article because the top part has been discussed in other threads (Message edited by The Nerd on March 10, 2005) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 2883 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.171.251 |
Can't wait to hear the spin on this one. And how Freman Hendrix is surely behind it. Conspiracy theories-atcha! Noting you can't hide behind the simple truth. | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 195 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 164.76.176.245 |
*** Freeman Supporter Here *** *** Personal Editorial of the Article Posted *** God, statements from this article would make for some excellent bumper stickers or negative television/radio ads: "She claims not to be a nut, but she keeps acting like one. " "Sharon McPhail is a liar. She is also apparently a racist. And not too bright. So we'll wade into the Detroit mayoral race earlier than usual to say Sharon McPhail repeatedly acts in ways that cast grave doubt on whether she has the maturity or is responsible enough to lead a major city, let alone sit on its council. " "It's hard to say whether Sharon McPhail is a racist or just plain stupid. But for sure, she's a liar." "This goes beyond poor judgment and into the realm of gross stupidity." McFail, McFail, McFail, McFail watching her do a POOR SPIN like Dreidel on Hanukka. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 617 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.230.155 |
Wow! This is the strongest language I've ever heard from the Detroit News about a politician. Whatever she said on the Mildred Gaddis show clearly pissed off the News. | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 2761 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.70.198 |
Nolan Finley, ya'll ..... one of the most racist editorial writers/columnists in this area. Black-atcha ..... | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1385 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
What racist editorials are you talking about Ras? Post a few articles as examples. Your calling someone a racist doesn't carry much weight with me since you make that accusation in nearly every thread. | ||
Treez4brkfst Member Username: Treez4brkfst Post Number: 25 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.21.61.1 |
Wow! Ix-nay the PhailMc-nay. Better luck next time! | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 2290 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.84.207.67 |
http://www.detnews.com/2005/ed itorial/0503/10/A10-111721.htm Yesterdays editorial for those that would like to compare. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 2291 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.84.207.67 |
An interesting set of observations at the end of the 3/9 editorial.
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Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 716 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.178.228.67 |
I suppose it comes down to definition. To some people, anyone whose even slightly conservative is a "racist". And vice versa, apparently. We need more precise terminology. Some people love to throw the word "racist" around because it carries a lot of weight. It's also a weak form of argument, since it is often used to deflect the opposing argument from the real issues being discussed. It's getting to the point where every time I see the word used editorially (in print or here on the forum) I'm inclined to regard the user with less and less credibility. It's like crying "wolf". Using the word all the time to try to discredit others and their arguments only serves to make the users argument weaker and weaker. I humbly suggest a more intelligent approach, y'all. Proceed. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2305 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
Why won't the News play the tape from the interview? Why won't they put this in a news story instead of an opinionated Editorial? Is it because within an editorial they can say ANYTHING even if its a lie and not be held liable by the courts? A News article must be confirmed and supprted. Does Nolan speak for all of the News staff who was in the room? | ||
Cletus Member Username: Cletus Post Number: 452 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 12.75.50.72 |
Nolan Finley? The link I went to isn't signed. At least McPhail is letting us all know how flaky she is *before* the election. It looks like whoever the next mayor is, the people are fucked. | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 196 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 164.76.176.245 |
Yes and exactly how would the news convey audio via their NEWSPAPER. A transcript would also waste valuable space since Sharon is not disputing what she said in the interview "yet". I personally like Nolan because he is a true conservative who will criticize democrats and republicans alike, unlike ubber right-wing nut Thomas Bray. Freeman screwed up buying a Cadillac, why can't you Sharon supporters admit that Sharon put her foot in her mouth by presenting the "Sambo Awards" | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1389 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
Brian, you can't just make up First Amendment law. The papers can not print a false statement about a public official with a knowingly or reckless disregard for its truth. That's the law of the land. Learn it, love it, live it. We know Mcphail is a fighter so where's the lawsuit? | ||
Chub Member Username: Chub Post Number: 167 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.195 |
Yep, I do think that with the choices we have for our next mayor, we the people of Detroit are as Cletus put it "fuc*ed". | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 197 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 164.76.176.245 |
^ Truely a "Three-Ring-Circus" with: The Whore The Bore The Crazy Lady ... all running for mayor. I'm just praying that we AT LEAST end up with a mediocre mayor. | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 718 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.178.228.67 |
I agree--Finley usually invokes some semblance of fairness. Thomas Bray is pure Weekly World News-style comedy, and that dour, humorless mug of his that they attach to his editorials doesn't help much. I do sense a lot of thin skin among McPhail's supporters. Instead of responding to the content of any accusation, there is almost always a knee-jerk reaction and subsequent attacking of the messenger. The counter argument seems to be: "look at who's out to get her" folowed up by a myriad of distracting, stratospheric and vague mentions of conspiracies and motives, etc., ad nauseum. How about addressing what is actually said and what is actually done by this candidate that some try so desperately to defend? (I know it's a difficult defence, bit I'd like to see someone really try for once.) | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1305 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Wow that editorial requires a bit of thought to figure out ... I'm at a loss ... strange ... Does a DetNews editorial carry ANY weight with significant numbers of Detroit voters? If not (duh) ... one wonders what was the point of that editorial since as Brian said, it isn't NEWS it is opinion and a defacto early on-the-record(!) non-endorsement which is usually verbotten at this stage of an election ... At first one might guess that it has something to do with fundraising, to get the small, but influential fence-sitting smart $$$ to tip to Hendrix BEFORE the primary since he looks like he is floundering a bit ... although THAT doesn't really make much sense since I'll bet that Det News Editorials carry even LESS weight among the Metro DET powers-that-be than among Detroit residents, lol ... ... hmmm ... weird ... ... perhaps it is the result of McNamera machine bzyantium poking up into the public eye but it is faaar to crude for them ... or maybe the result of KK's hamhanded panicking preferring to run against Hendrix than McPhail, bit then again why ... ... whatever the subtext, the sexist language in the article is clear. The News editorial is written is a way that pushes subconsious sexist buttons among Detroit voters and metro Detroit $$$. ... think about it ... it characterizes McPhail as not too bright, not mature, not responsible, too emotional, inappropriate behavior, mood swings, flighty, not qualified for her current office let alone the seat for which she is running ... perhaps there has been some market research poll (if that is the proper term) that has indicated that playing the gender card hurts McPhail among her likely voters ... Interesting times in Detroit! | ||
Velma Member Username: Velma Post Number: 2153 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.78.185.190 |
Anyone else see the humor in this quote? Cracked me up.... "Lonnie Bates, who received the "I Talk Black but Vote White" award. We can think of a number of dubious awards for which Bates might qualify, but that one escapes us." | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 198 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 164.76.176.245 |
^ That one nearly cause me to fall out the chair, lol | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 67 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.139.64.80 |
Gdub - Since I'm a Sharon supporter I always see it the other way around! That's so funny...reminds me of how dems see the media as biased towards republicans, and vice-versa for republicans. I posted the article about Freman's cadillac and you would've thought I was the devil. Ton's of slams and diversion from the issue towards Sharon and Kilpatrick. Let's face it, we're all human and knee jerk reactions are normal. Rustic I think you have a point. Think about this...for all the powers that be, everyone who has their hand in the money machine called waynecountycityofdetroit, they want Kwame to run against Freman. Why? Because who cares who wins at that point. If at the primary it's those two against eachother, then the current system wins, and we all loose. Again. This has got to be a concerted effort on the part of waynecountycityofdetroit. I'm not talking conspiracy, just business as usual in our area. | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1391 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
Lets take your fragamented list of words (can't quite call it a sentence) and replace McPhail with Kwame. The News editorial is written is a way that pushes subconsious sexist buttons among Detroit voters and metro Detroit $$$. ... think about it ... it characterizes (Kwame) as not too bright, not mature, not responsible, too emotional, inappropriate behavior, mood swings, flighty, not qualified for (his) current office let alone the seat for which (he) is running ... If you can use the words to characterize a man or woman, wouldn't that make it non-sexist? Are you saying that presenting Sambo Awards is a bright, mature, responsible, unemotional, appropriate, calm, level headed thing to do? Are you saying that a city council member that has done very few of the things McPhail says a mayor should do is doing a great job and deserves a promotion? | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2310 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
Intern then you were asleep during the just passed presidential election. The News has a website. They link video and audio there all the time. They also produce transcripts. They could produce a word for word transcript. Sharon McPhail said she never stated that the workforce should be cut. If the transcript is produced then it would show exactly what was said. word for word. The News will never do it because they are not being truthfull. They got busted and must now circle their wagons. There will be fallout from this. Somebody will have to undergo a career change. The news introduced strong language that they cannot take back. I guess they thought that since Channel 7 (WXYZ) called KK a liar on TV that they can do the same in the papers. I guess they thought that since folks called the president a liar that they can now call democrats liars. Well those who called the president a liar and could not prove it are GONE. They got fired. The DetNews cannot be sued for what appears in their editorial. But Finley can be sued if he purposely lied on Mildred's show. The News can be sued if they allowed Finley to repesent them and they have evidence that he lied. Mildred would lose her following if it came out that Finley lied. she could even lose her show. | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1392 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
So, where's the lawsuit? A judge can demand the News provide the tapes assuming these tapes you talk of even exist. | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1393 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
Where's Benny? He was there. Why isn't he rushing forward to back up this theory that Nolan Finley is lying? | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2312 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
Mildred won't allow Benny on her show. Why do you want a lawsuit? The News sued the city demanding FOI requests. Yet now they won't produce their own tape/transcipt. | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1394 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
I'm sure if Benny walked into any media facility, even Mildred's, they would let him go on the record. Are you claiming nobody would show if he held a press conference? I don't want a lawsuit. I want proof that the News lied. I'm just pointing out how McPhail could obtain that proof and get the News to help pay for her campaign. You see, I still haven't seen any evidence of a tape and a transcript can be falsified just as easily as an editorial summary of it can. If I can't produce a unicorn, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm hiding one. It probably means it just doesn't exist. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 6118 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
Talk about crashing and burning early on! I hope she is saving her best material till the election gets closer, cause she's on a role right now! | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1396 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
Wonder if anyone in the Hendrix camp is smart enough to take and publicize a poll while the timing is right. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 455 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 141.211.193.164 |
A few things: (1) Quinn: "I posted the article about Freman's cadillac" (https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/39198.html?1110437417) No, you posted a link to an article with the headline: "Mayor leads in fund-raising and spending." The article was mostly a review of the money the candidates are getting and spending. You spun it into an attach on Hendrix for getting a car to go campaigning in. That is what others had a problem with. (2) Unsigned editorials: It is impossible to know who wrote the editorial unless you are extremely familiar with the writing of all of the possible writers. But it doesn't matter. An unsigned editorial is unsigned because it is the consensus of the entire editorial board. Sometime there will be a dissenter, and a counterpoint editorial will be made on the same page. You can assume that the entire editorial staff of the News agrees with the editorial. (http://www.detnews.com/search/ staff.htm) (3) Libel: This is an editorial not news because there is no new facts or occurrences being presented but rather the editorial boards view of known happenings. They cannot print lies as facts in editorials, because that is libel. They could be sued for significant damages if they did. But they can print whatever opinion they want, no matter how inflammatory it might be to some, as long as it is fact or opinion. If there was anything in the editorial that wasn't true, then they could be sued for libel. But they cannot be sued for their opinions. The law is basically the same no matter what page of the paper it come from. It is completely wrong to say that they cannot be held liable for editorial content but can be for news. (4) Brian: "The News sued the city demanding FOI requests. Yet now they won't produce their own tape/transcript." Who asked them to? If somebody sued them for being untruthful, that tape would be in the court's hands faster than Ras can label somebody a racist. Since they are a private company, they do not fall under the FOI, and you cannot expect them to give up what at this point legal amounts to a trade secret. If they thought they could sell more papers/ads by doing so, or if they thought they needed to in order to support their assertions and maintain confidence in their journalism, they would print the transcript. Since the vast majority of people have the confidence that they get the big facts right, I doubt they will. (Though most of us know that they tend to mess up a lot of the little details.) - Former journalist-atcha. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1307 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Wcpo., first, thanks for noting that what I wrote wasn't a sentence, although it was kind of easy to spot given the absence of capitalization, no period, and, of course, the presence of ellipses (which, as I'm sure you know, on online forums and other casual forms of writing are commonly used to connect disjointed phrases and to imply the sort of pauses, physical gestures and verbal cues one receives in face to face conversation). I'm happy to see you are paying attention though, good for you! (Perhaps in the future you might want to keep those observations to yourself, consider Mr. Lowell's bandwidth.) Second, although you may feel those words I mentioned are appropriate to describe KK, I was writing about the words ACTUALLY used in a REAL editorial, NOT a hypothetical editorial. Third, I was NOT writing about the "Sambo" awards I was wondering WHY the News wrote THIS editorial. Further I was discussing the subtext and the language of the editorial NOT McPhail's curious actions and statements. Seriously Wc., since you are apparently a careful reader, doesn't this editorial strike you as WEIRD? | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1397 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
You said the words used in the real editorial were sexist. In the minds of people that believe certain sexes have certain characteristics, immaturity, irresponsibility, and inappropraite behavior is used to decribe the males, not the females. Sure, I thought the title was harsh, but if you ignore the title, you'll see the editorial has nothing to do with allegations of racism. Its all about showing McPhail as a flaky liar. Being a critical reader, I read beyond the goofy titles and colorful adjectives to get to the meat of a story. Such a overreaching backlash is what happens when a politician attacks a newspaper's journalistic integrity. The media, even mild mannered Ted Koppel on the guest-balanced Nightline, went ballistic on Bush after Bush had said the overall reporting on Iraq was failure biased. It wouldn't have mattered who the accusation came from, they would have responded the same way. (Message edited by wcpo intern on March 10, 2005) | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2314 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
Keep Editing. Its been going on alot on here recently. Including folks coming back and deleting their own posts. Editorials is not Journalism, its 'Opinionism'. The news papers have been putting alot of 'news' out in the form of editorials lately. This is so they can skip the facts and publish their opinion. I don't see how the Detnews can endorse Sharon McPhail at this point. They have placed themselves into a corner. How could they ever endorse someone they called a liar. If that is what Finley believes then how can he ever be sure Sharon is telling the truth. He has spoken for the Detroit News paper. He has placed them on the record. He was a bad boy and I am betting he will be spanked by his boss for this slip. similar to old Petey who got punished for his columns as he spun for his old friends who smuggled favors his way. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 116 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 63.149.5.130 |
We should have known that a neo arch conservative like Finley would turn the next day. I foolishly believed that they were actually reporting the truth for a minute. I heard McPhail on Mildred today say that she never said 6000 jobs would be cut - they took a little of what was said and spun it to 6,000. Typical of the News...McPhail called for them to produce the tapes - since it was recorded. Here we go again that 30 year political machine controlled by the McNamara machine are never going to give up and until the run this whole place into the ground! | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1308 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Wc., you are absolutely incorrect about the language used NOT being sexist simply by flipping some of the words to describe men -- that takes it out of context. Comeon man raise the bar! For example, the fact that G.W.Bush, a white man, may be lazy, dumb and floated through life on entitlements and affirmative action policies DOESN'T mean that those words used in another context could not possibly be racist. That's silly, right? It depends on the context. The fact that Bill Clinton is an articulate speaker does not mean that the term regularly used as a backhanded compliment by some whites to polite "educated" black folk ain't racist. Come on ... don't be silly. OK enough on that ... wc., you described yourself reading beyond to get to the "meat of the story". The thing is, imo, you are confused as to what is the "the story". It is an editorial not a news article. It is opinion, not fact. The facts are alluded to. In this specific case, the "story" of the editorial, imo is WHY. WHY this editorial? WHY now? WHY the language? WHY no news story first THEN the editorial, what would it have cost them a day or two? That is really weird, right? wc. or another way to look at it, you said the editorial described McPhail as a "flaky lair". OK fine ... who out there (who would accept this statement as accurate coming from the News editorial board) wasn't already aware of this, lol? right? How is this such a breaking issue that it requires such a strongly worded editorial at this point? Ya see WC., THAT'S the story, that's what I was trying to get at. And I can't figure it out ... | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1309 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
ILD, I smell machine oil on this too, but it is just so weirdly agressive and clumsy ... I can't figure it out ... Interesting times in DET. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 457 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 141.211.193.164 |
Pull your heads out of your neither regions! You may be right about a lot of things, but Finley this or Finley that isn't one of them. He very well might have written the words of the 2 editorials, but they are the ideas of these people: Mark Silverman, Publisher & Editor Susan Burzynski, Managing Editor Don Nauss, Deputy Managing Editor/News Nolan Finley, Editorial Page Editor Nancy Malitz, Director, New Media Kristi Bowden, Assistant Managing Editor Marty Fischhoff, Assistant Managing Editor Michael Brown, Assistant Managing Editor/Information Technology William McMillan, Assistant Managing Editor Luther Keith, Senior Editor Mark Truby, Business Editor Gary Miles, Metro Editor Ruben Luna, Sports Editor Marti Davenport, News Editor Felecia Henderson, Features Editor Alison Bethel, Washington Bureau Chief Janice Kowalski, Presentation Editor Nancy Hanus, Director of Photography Nan Seelman, National Editor (from: http://www.detnews.com/search/ staff.htm) At very least, they are the ideas of the managing editors and the publisher if not all of the other editors. The publish at least one editorial in every paper. They have been doing it since the first started rolling the press. There is no "lately." Editorials are in most ways the most important part of the Press, and always have been. Ever heard of the federalist papers? Ever wonder why feudalism started to fall apart after the invention of the printing press? "He has spoken for the Detroit News paper. He has placed them on the record." THAT is exactly the purpose of an unsigned editorial. Except "he" didn't really do anything. The paper did. The paper has spoken, they have created a record. "I am betting he will be spanked by his boss for this slip." His boss is probably the first person to say "good job." How come some people don't understand the idea of an unsigned editorial? It is the newspaper telling you what they think. The organization has an opinion. Take it or leave it, they are trying to convince you of their opinion. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2316 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
L. Brooks Patterson once endorsed Sharon McPhail for office and told his very good friend Bill Bonds that he was holding a fundraiser for Sharon out in Oakland County. Bill Bonds asked him repeatedly to clarify and confirm those statements and each time Brooks said Yes, that is exactly what I meant to say. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 2292 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.84.207.67 |
Neither can the News. Thats why they ran the editorial they did. | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.78.254 |
Kwame in 05!!!!!!! | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1399 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
The editorial itself is saying that its not breaking news. "She claims not to be a nut, but she keeps acting like one." Why now? The editorial was done in response to McPhail's claim that they lied about what she said. She said it yesterday. They responded today. When is a more appropriate time for a response? Next week? Last week? Why the language? She called them liars! Furthermore, the freshness of the news shouldn't have anything to with the strength of the editorials. Its like saying an editorial denouncing Hitler is too strongly worded because he's been dead for so long. Why no news story first? This happened because they reported a news story! The news is that she did tell them about cuts. They already reported the story. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 117 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 63.149.5.130 |
I was at an event last night for McPhail in East English Village there were about 120 folks there. Not one of them cared about Sambo or the 6000 jobs. McPhail was asked about: crime, the bus system, city services, and taxes. She volunteered info on yesterday's comments in the paper and REALLY no one cared - after she asked twice if anyone had questions. The people wanted to know about what mattered to them. After two hours and several solid rounds of applause the meeting ended. She received her biggest applause when she asked people if they were tired of the stealing that had been going on and the lack of care they were receiving! Funny to note the mayor had four of his people there at the door as people were exiting they were giving them Kwame stuff. McPhail went up to them all and teased them about not having the ability to get 100+ people into a room on their own account - they were pleasant to her and she to them. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2319 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
You are right about that ILD, perhaps we were there together. Sharon never called the News liars or anything similar intern. Now you are making things up. She stated that she never said she would cut the workforce or layoff 6000 people. She said that they got it wrong, but she never said or accused them of lying. Sharon Mcphail knows that the news gets things wrong all the time. Mildred wanted to read the paper and have the editorial director on her program this morning and therefore Sharon responded since Finley called Sharon and liar as did his editorial in the paper. They were not responding to Sharon. They were not protecting themselves. They chose to raise the level of this issue to make a larger issue. Similar to how WXYZ forced the Navigator into a larger issue. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1310 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Wc., be careful ... as a self-professed critical reader you are pretty sloppy ... "They already reported the story." OH? Where? They wrote an EDITORIAL about it on 3/9 and another EDITORIAL on 3/10. Where is the NEWS article on her plan? (other than a ~40 word inset on the 3/10 editorial quoting her.) (Apologies if I missed it, it didn't see anything online.) Where is the NEWS article on her radio comments? (Again apologies if I missed it, I didn't see anything online.) The Det News is a daily NEWSPAPER they can crank out an article IN THE SAME ISSUE if they want, but they didn't ... Why? Was she off the record when she spoke? Was there an agreement NOT to publish a story on her plan? Did she NOT actually say what they say she did? Why just the editorial? Has something else happened behind-the-scenes to shake things up? I don't know ... but it IS strange ... wc, isn't that WEIRD? Come on, man ... | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1401 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
"But then she went on the radio Wednesday morning, telling WCHB's Mildred Gaddis that she never said what she said. She accused The Detroit News of making it all up." If someone says I said something and I respond by saying they made it all up, I am calling them a liar. 18,000 is a clear cut number. 12,000 is a clear cut number. The difference of 6000 is a clear cut number. How can someone get that wrong and not be a liar? Are you saying that she only called the News an incompentent rag in not so many words? If she gets elected, did we all misunderstand her promise to reduce crime by 50%? Assuming you believe she encounters these many misunderstandings, maybe all of these misunderstandings should have you wondering if she can communicate at the level needed to run a major city. Didn't Kwame get the Navigator due to a misunderstanding? I'm going to have to start calling the two of them the McKwame twins. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2320 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
intern, now you are speaking for Sharon McPhail, editorializing her comments. No where in the editorials do I see quotes for what Sharon stated. You and others here are quoting an editorial, not Sharon MCPhail. What is interesting is that in the editorial it states the numbers and then strings together what they considered to be the conversation. They do not put quotes from her in their editorial. "12,000" is not a quote even if they put quotation marks around the number. Sharon McPhail never called anyone a liar nor did she say that anyone made anything up. Those are editorialized comments. nobody said that but you. Does that make you a liar? Or does it just make you taking words stated, then restating them how you wish to accomplish your own meaning? Rustic, the DetNews has seen the poll numbers and Sharon is VERY VERY high in the rankings. Higher than either Kwame or Hendrix will ever admit. The News never supported her and this is an attempt to push down her rankings. But it can't work. | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1403 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
Brian, nobody SAID she said the paper was a rag. I asked if that's what you thought she meant. You respond with some evasive what do you think I think she meant question. The News claims McPhail said the News had made the whole thing up. You've given me no reason to disrust them. You are the site's master at mayoral campaigning speculation. I simply made a statement based on the facts as I know them. Change my viewpoint by giving me facts, not more speculation. What exactly did she say? At the very least, explain the "confusion". At the very, very least, post the poll results. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1311 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Brian, maybe ... but how does an early non-endorsement from the News hurt McPhail in the polls? I suspect her supporters would come from the remnants of CAY's structure and younger folk disillusioned by DA's and KK's terms. Her "swing" supporters would likely come from KK's camp not from Hendrix' camp (and not JUST because KK has more support) ... so which of these supporters are turned off by the News' opinion? lol! Brian, as I said before, I can't imagine it is a $$ thing to harm her in fundraising, but who knows? Anyway, that's why I was noting the sexist language, I suspect that there might be a train of thought (perhaps a marketting survey) out there that some of the voters might feel better voting for a man than a woman. But then why now when she has time to respond and win back support and not later ... I still don't get it ... Yay Detroit  | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 2886 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.171.251 |
Here's a thought: If the News is irrelevent to Detroit voters anyway, as Ras and Brian and co. are so quick to note, why should it matter what is written in the News about McPhail? If they were praising McPhail, there would be trumpets sounded and galas thrown in the News/Freep's esteemed honor. | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 200 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 164.76.176.245 |
I think I may hold off changing my residency until after the election so that I can vote in this all too important election. It depends on which school I go to next year. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.13.185 |
Prediction: McPhail won't make it out of the primary. Actually she's one more downsizinggate mistake away from just withdrawing from the race entirely. At this rate her campaign won't make it to the summer. Really it's just sad. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2322 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
intern, that is your problem you don't have the facts and have not sought them out. As Rustic pointed out you use the editorialized comments as facts when they are not facts. You chose to ignore Sharon McPhail's direct statements. None of which made it in either editorial. Rustic, there is a strong belief that Detroiters won't vote for a woman mayor. But that sentiment is fading fast. Granholm, Stabinaw, and even the SOS before Lynn pretty much shattered that belief. (And we must give credit to Bush/Condi.) The other sentiment that is held by former MAC folks is that if you put out enough lies, deceit or just plain negative comments about an opponent it will wear them down and push them out of the race. Mcnamara used to do that all the time. He used the papers to campaign without ever stating a slogan. The papers do it to appease the Chamber. Sharon is no republican nor does she, or has she ever, warmed up to any republican ideas, policies or programs. These other people, like Kwame, Hendrix and Archer are so weak that the repubs feel they can walk over them at will. See what occured under Archer with Engler and how Posthumous almost beat Granholm because KK was either unable or unwilling to put up a fight. The republicans fear a person like Sharon in Detroit for the next Gov race. Its their sole focus. With a person like Sharon, who has a stronger influence aka Young, the repubs fear a strong Detroit influence on the election. It ain't about money. At least not for anyone who would ever donate to Sharon and Benny. The money folks are much smarter that that editorial dictates. They can read between the line. If they couldn't someone would have taken their money by now. Both Freman and Kilpatrick went to the School of Campaign by Ed Mcnamara. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 6121 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
"Kwame in 05!!!!!!!" Histeric, You been drinking already? The parade ain't till sunday! | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 2889 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.171.251 |
"intern, that is your problem you don't have the facts and have not sought them out" Wow. Brian, that sounds alot like you! | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1406 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
Brian, I have the facts that are out there because I've sought them out. I've read two or three dozens articles on her, I've seen what she has voted on, and I've watched what she hasn't accomplished. That's far more than most Detroit voters are willing to do. Meanwhile, your opinions are based on unsubstantiated conspiracy theories involving Hendrix and the fact that people that go to her rallies like her. Wow, big suprise! I still haven't heard why you like her, what she has accomplished on CC, or what it is that she has said. Once again, I ask for you to tell me what she said and once again you tell me how everyone is conspiring against her. Raise her up with facts rather than attacking her opponents with wild theories. Maybe Hendrix wired her chair! | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2326 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.83.110 |
intern you are the only here with the wild theories, attacks, loose accusations, etc. Since you read all of two or three dozen articles on Sharon McPhail and can in your own words sought out the facts, what do you need from me? You just stated the have the facts. You also put down most Detroiters. Perhaps that is a freudian slip. Most Detroiters at this point do support the team of Sharon McPhail and Benny Napoleon. And since you don't live in Detroit, from what you have posted previously on other threads, why would I waste my time with you when you can't vote in Detroit? I don't want or need your support of my candidate. In fact as I have written before, it would help Sharon and Benny if folks like you go over to Helmut's or Malik's campaigns. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 2897 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.171.251 |
And once again... the "You don't live in Detroit" card. Same old schtick. | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1410 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
I've said what I need from you several times now. 1) What did Sharon say that could be confused with I want to cut 6000 workers? 2) What did she do while on City Council? 3) Where's your evidence that most Detroiter's support her? I can't find any evidence of these things so I'm asking you to enlighten me with your wisdom. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2329 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
Intern, she never said she would cut jobs. The editorial written on both days does not provide any quotes that shows that Sharon McPhail made any similar statement. The so called rebuttal editorial was in response to what? Nothing written, printed, quoted in any news source. Supposedly the editorial was written in response to the Mildred Gaddis show. That means Nolan Finley either listens to the show and wrote his editorial (for the News paper company) OR somebody from the Mildred Gaddis show notified Nolan Finley what was said on her program. Which would mean they gave him a tape, or played it for him. For your question number 2, you give away your lack of knowledge. You claim you read and have the facts yet you can't answer your own question? This means you most likely read the Freep and the DetNews. This also goes to your question number 3. Since you do not live in Detroit you have no way of knowing what Detroiters think. I suggested you read the Michigan Citizen and the Michigan Chronicle. But you are not looking for facts, you are looking for arguments. Rustic stated, "Wc., be careful ... as a self-professed critical reader you are pretty sloppy ... " which becomes more clear with each of your posts. You handled projects, tasks and other critical elements in the Duggan's office as a prosecutor or office worker, per your own words, which raises the question of just how well the material was handled if this is your M.O. You have ignored Rustic's questions to you repeatedly. I myself don't think you understand his question. | ||
Wcpo_intern Member Username: Wcpo_intern Post Number: 1412 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.60.140.71 |
You talk about how much voters dislike women politicians by showing how many successful women politicans are in the local area. You can debunk your theories better than I can. You also claim Hendrix is so weak that he can walk over McPhail at will. Please, go see a good doctor. You even claim that McNamara's people, whoever they may be, are joining forces with Hendrix to sabotage McPhail for reasons known only to you. McNamara is retired, Duggan is running a hospital, Granholm is busy running the State, and Kwame isn't exactly pandered to by the media. Who is this mysterious man on the grassy knoll? What I don't understand is how it matters how Finley heard McPhail's claims. What I do understand is that putting something in quotes means the paper is representing that its a fact that it was said in those exact words by that exact person. Twelve-thousand is in quotes. The facts, as represented by the paper, are that McPhail said she would get the city workforce down to 12,000 and that McPhail later publicly denied having said that. There is no rule that editorials can't contain facts. People other than you do support their opinions with facts because factless opinions don't persuade most logical people. Would all of this magically be different if they placed the article in another section of the paper? Would you be happier if this article was cut into two different parts and put on two different pages? I think that answers Rustic's question. Rustic and I may still disagree, but at least we've addressed each other's concerns. You've addressed nothing other than that you think that suburbanites don't deserve the wealth of knowledge that you claim you have. Go ahead and post any unfounded conspiracy theories you want. Your posts won't contain a single fact supported claim so they can only help weaken your arguments. As for me, I've wasted enough time trying to get you to understand why you should base your opinions on facts. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 455 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 205.188.117.68 |
Brian, Editorials don't use direct quotes with quotation marks -- that's not the style. In the case of a candidate visiting an editorial board (as opposed to an editorial STAFF which jsmeyers has confused), when the designated writer pens what the consensus agrees on, they refer to what the the candidate says. Editorial: Sharon McPhail told us that she intends to keep the Belle Isle Aquarium open. News story: "I'm keeping that damn Aquarium open," said Sharon McPhail. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1312 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Brian, you are correct the upcoming Gov. race is a big prize, with MI being a swing state voting blue in the last pres election it carries even MORE weight ... but still ... why attack McPhail NOW? This is early enough to give her a chance to do damage control AND even for the News to possibly suffer blowback BEFORE the primary. Did something ELSE happen to shake things up behind the scenes to which we are not privvy?!?! What was it? Brian, yeah I had heard that stuff about Detroiters not voting for a female mayor too. What I wonder is have there been some real polling numbers to back up the rumor. If NOT ... attempting to push sexist buttons smacks of desparation by the News which is really weird ... If SO why NOW and not later? Again ... interesting times in Detroit. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2331 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
Rustic, it was a factor in the past, but is diminshing quickly. The number of state reps and senators have lessened the sexist nature of votes in Michigan not to mention the offices I mentioned above. I don't think there is any futher sexist bias in Detroit or Michigan but there are some old style politicians or political advisors (so called strategists) who still think that the bias exists. They themselves usually have the bias. But you can't poll something like that because you would not get an accurate result unless you were willing to spend alot of money on a poll designed to solicit psychologica reponses. intern, you continue to speak for others and tell others what they said. But as I stated above, only you are saying what is in your posts. Those are your claims and your statements. Lastly you state, "Your posts won't contain a single fact supported claim" indicating you are not interested in other opinions or information which does not already agree with your previously stated positions. Why would anyone be bothered with you who has already stated your position, indicated you won't change your position and then as you ask others for information, you indicate that you won't believe what is written before anything further can be stated. I have asked you this before and you never answered. Are you working with or being investigated by the FBI in their ongoing probe into Duggan's office? Sharon McPhail is a former federal prosecutor so I could guess that with the federal probe of criminal activity of your former boss and many of his close employees perhaps you have grown a resentment of all federal (former or current) authorities. You must have known the other intern who informed on Duggan and some of his employees. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 2297 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.84.207.67 |
Thanks, Brian, I really needed a good laugh today and you provided it. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 6138 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
So, has the nut job done anything amusing today? May have to switch on channel 10 tonight and keep an eye on her. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1313 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
wc, you are still choosing to confuse information presented in an editorial with actual news reporting. wc, as I am sure you know, the way newpapers work is that news articles are presented as being factual, unbiased, thorough and dispassionate. Editorial, op-ed pages and opinion columns etc. are different. They are opinion not fact, selective to support a specific point, not thorough and evenhanded. You know this. Look, wc., something happened and the Det News editors felt it necessary to comment on it -- hey its their paper, whatever. Now, these same editors apparently did NOT feel it newsworthy enough to actually REPORT a NEWS article on either the incident they claim in the editorial which spurred their outrage (McPhail's comments on the radio) OR even McPhail's earlier comments to the News (other than an editorial alluding to her statement). What's up with that? wc, the News editors outrage was spurred apparently by McPhail lying in a radio interview. Gosh, a politician lies! Why I'm shocked, shocked that such a thing could possibly happen -- STOP THE PRESSES, lol! (Kinda reminds me of a Saturday Night live skit this last year, the guy was playing John Kerry reponding to criticism, "I wasn't lying ... I was Pandering", lol!) wc., comeon yer a grownup, yet apparently you don't choose to read the paper like like one ... why won't you raise the bar of your critical analysis beyond the "he said, she said" silliness? Come-on you should know better ... it can't be THAT comfortable flopping around with the bottom-feeders? | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2334 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
Harsh words? Perhaps its as Sharon stated and the news paper has promised to endorsed Freman Hendrix but they don't want to make it official until the deadline. This would be a way for them to support their candidate without taking an official stand. Also with no record to go by and nothing of note to point to the news paper would only be able to endorse Helmut by way of saying that they don't like the other two candidates. With Sharon's poll numbers as high as they are it would be dificult for the news to try and claim that Sharon could not 'unseat' Kilpatrick. Therefore this recent event would assist the editorial board in their decision to endorse Helmut even though he is not an official candidate and is still a long shot to make it past the August primary. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 2906 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.171.251 |
Brian, you LOVE the word "perhaps." "perhaps" this, "perhaps" that, "perhaps", "perhaps", "perhaps." Doesn't mean anything. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2337 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.5 |
Neither do your posts aram. Perhaps you could add something to the discussions instead of just attacking those posters you don't like or ridiculing a topic. I would have thought graduation would have brought you more maturity. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 2911 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.171.251 |
Brian, how come you don't post in anything except for McPhail threads and threads about demolition? I don't see you admiring the fine work of folks who post pictures, I don't see you welcoming new members of the detroit community when they come here to ask questions, I don't see you doing anything but drone on about the same boring topics all day long and top your threads with more and more conspiracy theories when they drop to the bottom. You have three purposes here: To spin falsehoods, talk about how no one ever has any money, and place St. McPhail on a pedestal. It's the same old tired shit over and over and over again. And I for one have gotten sick of it. | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 268 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.69.198.33 |
Meow. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 1121 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.195 |
Brian, I thought you were just a lier but now are you just plain nuts as well? Why have you gone back to your claims from Summer and Fall 2004 that "Hendrix is not an official candidate" (whereas the other two are)? Have you run out of material and you're just recycling old stuff at this point? C'mon get back on the crazy track. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 2367 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.32.206 |
Why do you visit these threads, read my posts and respond aram. MD, Did I touch a nerve when I pointed out that Helmut has no record? | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 1124 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.117.68 |
Brian, will you recant your latest false claim? If you do, I'll give you 10 days (this time) before you start using it again. |
