  Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1593 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Candidates need to come clean, pony up tax returns August 14, 2005 Freman Hendrix owes the public an explanation. While deputy mayor for Dennis Archer, Hendrix swung a deal with Comerica Bank that is the envy of any wannabe millionaire. He signed on to a “continuing collateral mortgage” which works like a trust. It is an on-going deal with terms known only to the bank, Hendrix and his partners. What we do know is that he pledged his $250 thousand Rosedale Park home to get the loan. It had an $87,000 mortgage on it at the time, so the bank wasn’t even promised a full house. The real question is what are Hendrix loan obligations? Was the loan interest free? If so, Hendrix is also enjoying a yearly tax deduction in addition to the million dollars. To us it all smells of deal-making at public expense. Comerica is paying $66 million over 30 years for naming rights of the stadium, surely they must have gotten something else in the deal. Comerica also manages a large PAC. The Comerica PAC has contributed to the campaign mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. As of July 18, Kilpatrick received $31,500 from Comerica. Among Hendrix business partners were Wayne County officials, one mentioned in the airport scandal. Did the bank also get something from the county? Are the deals all done, or, like the mortgage, are they, too, continuing? Detroit is in desperate straits. We do not need a money-grabbing, deal-maker in the mayor’s seat. We need someone with compassion for the unemployed, the residents sick of trash, deserving of clean streets, clean parks, paved roads, recreation...and all the other services they are entitled by virtue of their tax payments. Hendrix must come clean. He must immediately disclose the terms of the Comerica loan. Let us know how much he is still on the hook for. What did Comerica get for giving up a million dollars to a career bureaucrat? What did Hendrix promise Comerica in exchange for the loan? And what if he is enjoying annual tax deductions because he got the loan for no interest? How did Hendrix’s wife get the job with the Comerica Park owners? Do we elect people to use their position to enrich themselves or to serve the public? Unfortunately for the public, it seems we have two candidates out for personal enrichment. One is down-home style, throwing contracts to high school friends. The other is much more sophisticated about it. We can settle for the least of two evils or we can force some accountability. Election time is the only time we a have a shot at it. In both cases we need to see tax returns for the past five years. The public should demand nothing less. http://www.michigancitizen.com /default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=9 6&twindow=Default&mad=No&sdeta il=&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=&c cat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus= &reoption=&retype=&repmin=&rep max=&rebed=&rebath=&subname= | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 732 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.42.168.234 |
This topic again, Michigan Citizen again boring. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3965 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
Ltorivia, I mean it. For someone who goes to one of the finest universities in America, which has one of the finest journalism programs in America, you should know better than to use the Michigan Citizen as a legitimate news source. Every day you start at least one post with another piece of crap article from the Citizen. It's like you never learn. You should know better. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1599 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Aram, as I will say again, it's one of the most admirable progressive newspapers, especially on the current Detroit Public Schools crisis. If the Freep and News don't report it, you gotta find it somewhere else. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 833 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.214.178.213 |
Ltorivia485: You are correct that the Michigan Citizen takes on stories that few other outlets will look at. Unfortunately, this is because too often there's no story worth reporting and they're the only ones who don't understand that fact. This article is a perfect example of that fact.
Wow! So, because they paid $66 million over 30 years for the naming rights there must be some kind of shady dealings going on, right? Wow! That makes perfect sense. At least until you take a look at what other company's are paying for similar rights. Comerica's deal works out to $2.2 million per year. The Toronto Maple Leafs got $1.5 million per year from Air Canada for the naming rights to their stadium. The Miami Heat got $2.1 million from American Airlines. The Dallas Mavericks and Stars also got $6.5 million from American Airlines. The Texas Rangers got $2.5 million from Ameriquest Mortgage. The Arizona Diamondbacks got $2.2 million from Bank One. Are you noticing a trend here? Comerica spending $2.2 million for the naming rights to the new ballpark is hardly out of the ordinary. It's completely in line with what other teams are getting from other companies when they sell naming rights. Everyone in town seems to understand that - except for the folks who read the Michigan Citizen. SOURCE FOR ABOVE FIGURES: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/sportsbusiness/news/story?page=stadiumnames (Message edited by fnemecek on August 18, 2005) | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1600 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Fm, it's obviously you didn't read the entire article. The article focused on Hendrix's ties to Comerica Bank. I can give a careless if the baseball field was named after National City or Fifth Third Bank. Hendrix has ties to Comerica Bank that go back and he's living large because of it. | ||
Morena Member Username: Morena Post Number: 307 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.173.147 |
There's always a conspiracy theory in Detroit. | ||
Bostedguy Member Username: Bostedguy Post Number: 172 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.40.132 |
Get real | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1601 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Then you try to get a million-dollar loan, folks. It's not a conspiracy theory that the (national) media has bashed Kwame Kilpatrick since the night of that party at his mansion. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 835 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.214.178.213 |
It's obvious that I did read the entire article. The article focused on Hendrix's ties to the bank and used the naming rights as an example of why there must've been something inappropriate going on. 5 minutes of research proves that theory wrong.
Yeah, he got a sweetheart deal. A real journalist would've focused on that left the naming rights out of the story.
Actually, the bashing began when the deputy police chief got fired and claimed that it was because of his investigation into a party. Every elected official has to deal with stories like that. Kilpatrick has his scandals. Hendrix has the loan. Welcome to politics. | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 675 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.77.163.14 |
Again, the mortgage does not prove that Hendrix received a million dollar loan from Comerica. I don't understand why folks keep repeating this as though it is a proven fact. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 836 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.214.178.213 |
Why? Because the pro-Kilpatrick forces need to have some kind of dirt to throw around now that their candidate is covered in mud. (Message edited by fnemecek on August 19, 2005) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3969 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
I don't think it's the pro-Kilpatrick as much as it is the venomous anti-Hendrix. It's like he came to their house and kicked their dog or something. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1175 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.53.233 |
Some people, particular the anti-Hendrix people on this forum, believe if you keep repeating a story long enough, more and more people will believe it. Quite honestly I think there's some truth to this, especially when you're dealing with groups of people outside of this forum who rely on hearsay more often than researching the information for themselves. Just consider the Manoogian party story. Nothing conclusive, yet if you ask Joe Blow on the street if he thinks the story is true, you'll probably get a yes answer over 50% of the time. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1607 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Royce, are you stating that the party at the Manoogian mansion did not exist????? Hello, there are dead victims because of that event! | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3971 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
Dead victims? Pray tell, what reputable news source do you have to back that up? Both hearsay and the Michigan Citizen do not suffice. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1608 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Aram, the female dancers that were at the Manoogian mansion are all dead. This is old news. (Message edited by ltorivia485 on August 19, 2005) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3972 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
Source? | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1177 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.214.178.30 |
Ltorivia, not to be insensitive, but there had to be more dancers at the Manoogian party than the two that were supposedly there that were mysteriouly killed later. Remember we're talking about KK. He does nothing small. He would have had at least 10 dancers there. So if there were more than two dancers killed (Tamara Green here and the other who went to Georgia) let me know. Also, please give the source. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 1951 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.19.3 |
Source? Next you'll find something in the Michigan Citizen that claims Kenneth Burnley killed them. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1614 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Royce, there were three dancers killed. There were some men that were killed too tied to the party. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1615 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
http://www.detnews.com/2004/me tro/0404/22/a01-130385.htm The party did exist, Track and aram. http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0404/22/a01-130385.htm (Message edited by ltorivia485 on August 19, 2005) | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 845 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.255.166.118 |
Ltorivia485: From the article you just posted a link to:
| ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1617 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Fm, Cox is wrong. He just closed the case, so that no further invesgitations could take place. That does not mean the party did not exist. One of my mother's employees, who is related to Kilpatrick family, said that the party happened and that he was there. A whole lot of people were at that party. I don't know any family member who will go against their own family. Kwame Kilpatrick could have just told the media that it was just a party, but not a wild one. Everyone has parties. No, he blasted the media by saying that it never existed. And innocent victims were killed because of his lies. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 179 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77 |
My pedicurist's cousin's-brother-in-law's-uncl e from Virginia told her that he knew someone whose friend was at the party in the Manoogian Mansion... so of course it happened! duh... | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 846 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.255.166.118 |
And your source for is, what? You said that you have an unnamed source who was at this party who told you that it happened. Fine. We have his word against the mayor's. However, even if we accept that the party happened, there's a big difference between a party happening and someone dead because of a party. What evidence do you have that connects the party with those murders? | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1618 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Read the articles above. I did post them. http://www.detnews.com/2004/me tro/0404/22/a01-130385.htm http://www.freep.com/news/locw ay/straw5_20040505.htm http://www.detnews.com/2004/me tro/0408/21/metro-248834.htm | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 181 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77 |
*Yawn* ahem...proof? I'd hate for you to my on my jury. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1620 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
If Kwame Kilpatrick does not win this election, he is going to jail, Susan. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 185 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77 |
If Kwame Kilpatrick does not win this election, he is going to jail, Susan. Could be interesting, let's see if it happens. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3973 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
The articles you have linked to do not prove anything. Did you actually read them? Lots of "if"'s and speculation, which does not equate to absolute truth. The things people pass off as fact around here astound me. It's like concrete proof and legitimate sources don't matter. Everyone would much rather have their conspiracy theories they heard from an aunt's hairdresser or their local pastor who heard it from his shoe-shine-boy's cousin's best friend. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 847 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.255.166.118 |
Aram's right. Those articles establish three things: * A party may or may not have happened at the Manoogian Mansion; * Tamara Greene may or may not have performed at said party; * Tamara Greene was murdered with .40 caliber weapon; * Mayor Kilpatrick may or may not have told a police officer to get rid of a 9mm weapon. Please not that the weapon Lt. Alvin Bowman alleges officers were told to "get rid of" is a different type of weapon. Since DPD does train it's officers to know the difference between a 9 mm and .40 caliber one, we can safely conclude that it wasn't a weapon connected with Ms. Greene's murder. There's simply nothing in any of those articles that even comes close to implicating Mayor Kilpatick or anyone else in Ms. Greene's murder. This, presumably, is why none of the mainstream news media have refrained from even mentioning these allegations - regardless of how much they dislke the Mayor. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3039 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.83.244 |
Fnemecek does a fair job of defending mayor KK and the pack of lies about a party at the manoogian. I guess we know that Fnemecek is not Mildred Gaddis fake online personality. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3974 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
Frank, will you answer to "Mildred" tomorrow morning? Being that you're her online personality and all... | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1178 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.225.112.172 |
Ltorivia, here's something to consider. If there are other witnesses to the "rumored" Manoogian party, why aren't they dead too? Why would only the dancers at this party be killed? What more would they have known about the mayor being at this party that witnesses still alive wouldn't know? To silence his presence at this party, Mayor Kilpatrick would have had to kill many people to keep this event silent. Is he capable of this kind of crime? Now, I told you that I know about the two dancers that were allegedly killed because of what they knew regarding this party. You say there are more victims, but you'll have to provide some proof of these victims because I haven't heard or read anything about their deaths. So, Ltorivia, where's the proof? Also, Ltorivia, where are all of these "living" witnesses? Of all of the mayor's security force, is it possible that they all could remain quiet about this party? A wild party is a difficult thing for a man to be silent about. In addition, if the witnesses are afraid to come forward, why would one say anything to you or your mother? Ltorivia, I am not a Kilpatrick fan, but I find it hard to believe that he would resort to killing some people just to cover up a party. He could have simply said that members of his administration had a bachelor party for one of the guys at the Manoogian and that he was not aware of it until after the fact. I believe that at the time this party had occurred the mayor's family hadn't moved into the Manoogian yet. I think this kind of explanation, even if it was a lie, is more plausible then killing all of the witnesses to the party. BTW, it was never my intent to hi-jack this thread. I was just pointing out how some people on this forum keep things going in the hopes that more people will believe them, even when the evidence points to the contrary. The Manoogian party is an example of things that people want to keep going in the hopes that more people will believe it to be fact. The jury is still way out on this one. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 220 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.222.65.187 |
Okay, I have really heard enough. I have been reading how no one should believe any of the stories about Freman because there is no proof. NO concrete evidence of anything. Don't believe. and so on and so on.. And I was starting to go with you guys on it. Why believe it? UNTIL.....you all stated that the Manoogian party didn't happen, and because someone on this thread has no concrete evidence, then it didn't happen. COME ON PEOPLE...GET A FRICKIN' CLUE!!!!!! If someone on this thread really had concrete evidence of this happening, would they post it.....only to put their own life in jeapordy? There are many people who are keeping quiet about that whole incident for a frickin' reason! Think about it. Now, I am sorry to say, but I can't go with any of your opinions anymore. I cannot say why..but that's that. I am not calling anyone dumb or stupid, but some are closer to situations and have knowledge that they cannot expose. Everyone can continue on with their rose colored glasses and discard any information that the Michigan Citizen prints, or Steve Wilson reports, or whatever.....but you all need to open your eyes and ears and quit being so stubborn and close minded. This is the real world people and yes, no one is perfect but damn! | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 848 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.255.245.231 |
Brian: Yes, indeed. I am a real-live person with absolutely no relationship with Ms. Gaddis at all. Aram: If you would like to call me "Mildred" tomorrow, I'll answer to it. Ltorivia: There are plenty of reasons to bash Mayor Kilpatrick. Who knows - maybe there is some basis in fact in those allegations. However, until credible proof is brought forward, I believe we should confine ourselves to bashing him over those things that we know he did instead of what some unidentified person says that he may or may not have done. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1622 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Fnem, a lot of mayors in history, including Coleman Young and the elder Richard Daley, have done crimes that many people (a.k.a. the media) do not know. They were sophisicated enough to conceal their crimes so that no one, except the insiders, knew anything. In San Diego, the mayor was just found guilty for stealing money and will serve 6 years in prison. Just keep that in mind. It's the same with Burnley: people know that he is guilty of what he has done to Detroit Public Schools, but I'm not going to rely on the Freep and News to tell me the truth. (It would be nice if they did reports, but they are paid to not say anything negative about Burnley. No coincidence, eh?) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3975 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
No one ever denied the Manoogian parties happened. I'm just saying that there's no proof two strippers were killed as a direct result. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 850 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.54.113 |
This is entirely true. There have been people who were able to conceal their crimes. However, the fact that persons A, B and C committed a crime that no one even knew about does mean that person D had to have committed a crime. Logically, that isn't consistent. Your posts, Ltorivia, basically boil down to saying, there's no evidence to prove that Mayor Kilpatrick was involved in criminal activity therefore he must be guilty. That makes for a great paperback novel or an article in the Michigan Citizen, but it doesn't make anything true. My belief in the matter is that there's a lot of allegations but not concrete proof. Therefore, he may or may not have done it. We simply don't know. The difference between you and I is that, in the absence of any definitive evidence, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Even though he's been one of the worst mayors this city has ever had and has a lengthy list of ethical lapses - I will still give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to any connection with a murder under there is evidence to prove otherwise. I am a firm believer in Innocent Until Proven Guilty - even if the accussed happens to be an elected official. It's one of the things that make this country great. Maybe he had was involved in those murders, but until there's somekind of proof it is wrong for anyone to throw around wanton allegations. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 851 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.54.113 |
Would they leak such information? That's a very good question and it's one that, quite frankly, I know more about than a lot of people might realize. In January of 2002, I was working late one night and, while doing so, stumbled on evidence establishing that one of companies own by my employer was actually a front for a rather large narcotics and prostitution ring in Genessee County. In spite of any such fears over reprisal, I still managed to arrange for a certain amount of information to end up in the hands of police. If someone had conclusive proof about Mayor Kilpatrick's connection to the Strawberry murder, would they leak such information? Well, that would depend on a couple of things: * How morally outraged were they? * How confident were they in their ability to leak it anonysmously? * How many people knew about this information? (Related to their ability to leak anonysmously). * How confident were they that something positive would happen as a result? Only a person possessing such information can really answer those questions - assuming, of course, that they really exist. However, I am reasonably confident that if someone had any credible proof of a link between Kilpatrick and the murders, they would've come forward by now. First off - two police officers have already come forward with their report, but their still alive. The fact that others are out their telling a story and not getting shot would provide a certain amount of comfort in a witnesses decision making. There's also a preponderance of avenues for someone to make an anonymous tip about this. Every media outlet in town is covering it; providing a guarantee of confidentiality to anyone asking for it in a case like this. There are Kilpatrick's numerous political rivals, all of whom would love to be able to prove something like this. There's also the Michigan State Police and the Attorney General, both of whom had launched official investigations into these allegations. A multitude of options, but no witness or other credible evidence. Does this prove Kilpatrick's evidence? No, but it does make me a bit more ready to give him the benefit of the doubt. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1624 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Your posts, Ltorivia, basically boil down to saying, there's no evidence to prove that Mayor Kilpatrick was involved in criminal activity therefore he must be guilty. The evidence is out there, Fmem. Either Kwame was quick, but stupid, to remove all evidence of his crimes (a.k.a. people included) through his insiders or the evidence is out there but the insiders are too afraid to say (a.k.a. snitch) anything to the police and media. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3978 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
If the evidence is out there that Kwame had two people KILLED to eliminate traces of a wild party, why hasn't it surfaced yet? Your conspiracy theory is just that. A theory. And nothing more. All the articles you have posted have nothing to prove your accusations. And that's just about all you've got. I'm sorry, but word of mouth sources when there's homicides involved just don't fly up in here. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1625 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Aram, Kwame has the MONEY and CONNECTIONS to keep things under the radar. DUHHHHH. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3980 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
Proof? I'm sorry to keep hammering it, but just because he has the money and connections to make it happen doesn't mean that's what he did. Is that what they teach at Northwestern? Accusing people of things with no solid evidence to prove they did it? I don't mean to be defending Kwame so much, but your ability to back up your claims is severely underwhelming. | ||
Jmy8 Member Username: Jmy8 Post Number: 2499 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.31.166 |
Ltorivia485 is taking out of her ass, and you all know it. Why bother? Really? | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 496 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
OK...Ltorivia485...I'm usually very supportive of your posts and I thoroughlly enjoy and applaud your contributions to this forum. However, you are waaaaaay of base here. You have no right, absolutely no right whatsoever, to make such slanderous statements against the Mayor of Detroit...or anyone for that matter. Would you like for someone to make assertions about you or someone you loved because of rumors, innuendos, "I heard...", "He say...she say?" You are completely out of line here and I would hope that you allow your wild claims and assumptions to simply die down. Otherwise, you will ruin any credibility that you have left...with me at least. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1626 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/18968/22243.html?1082775 681 How am I offbase? What has Kwame Kilpatrick contributed to city of Detroit? Other than his consistent lies to the press and media all the time? That's one thing my mother said about him: Kwame Kilpatrick could have been a good, charismatic leader, but he lies so much that it reduces his credibility as a mayor and as a human being. He is all air and broken promises. He did not have to lie about the party at his mansion, but he did anyways. I even lost faith in him when he supported Proposal E, which would have the mayor to take over the Detroit schools (which the citizens of Detroit victoriously defeated because he would gain access to the district's money and appoint a lameduck board). In other words, Kwame MUST GO. http://www.kwamemustgo.com/say what.html | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3986 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
That doesn't address what you've been saying on here. Nice attempt at the deflection, though. I don't disagree with that post in principal, but it's not answering where your facts are coming from in regards to the Manoogian party cover up. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 497 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
Ltorivia485, this is not about whether or not a fucking party took place. Let's all agree that a party took place. What I can't understand is you accusing Mayor Kilpatrick of murder? Where in the hell do you get off doing such? Of course the Mayor has many, many shortcomings ON A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL (since that is really all that the majority of us have concrete knowledge of--no thanks to our own inquiries but of an oftentimes biased media). However, unless you can provide legal documentation that this man is being investigated/indicted or is a prime suspect in all of these so-called MASS MURDERS--may I suggest something to you as politely as I can muster at this timer: STFU! | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1627 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Shave, why were the strippers who were present at the Manoogian party and are unrelated to one another personally and professionally found dead at the scenes? It sounds to me that someone was paid to eliminate the evidence. Killing strippers from the same party within the same time frame? C'mon. Kilpatrick may not have killed them with his own hands (which I never stated) but someone in his entourage ordered the death warrants. It's too much a coincidence. Then you're gonna have a police officer fired from his position because he was investigating too much into the case? Sounds fishy to me. Now, if you will excuse me, but I think you need to apologize. I will NOT SHUT UP if you continue to curse at me like that. You have made things worse, not better, Shave. You should be ashamed of yourself. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 3987 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
(yawn) If you're relying on coincidences... I really thought you were smarter than that. What are they teaching at Northwestern these days? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 1982 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.122.200 |
Ltorivia485, I've heard the rumours, but without a shred of factual proof, all you are doing is spreading slanderous conjecture. I'm not a big fan of Kwame, but I'll not post anything I don't have facts to back it up with. I'd suggest you might do the same. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1631 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Aram et al: You can continue to use logical responses to debunk my beliefs in the party, but there is one thing I learned about this city: the abnormal just doesn't seem so abnormal anymore. Yes, I use logic whenever I complete my studies, but Detroit is an animal where you have to think the unbelievable just to see things clearly. What visitors outside Detroit and Michigan would express an outcry, Detroiters will say that's the way things happen here. With the corruption leaking in the mayor's office, City Council and now the Detroit Public Schools, the absurd just doesn't seem so absurd anymore. Leaders in this city do not use ethics in their practices and cry foul if the media talks about their crimes. Logic simly does not apply in Detroit. That's all I have to say. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 499 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
Ltorivia, I apologize for the earlier tone of my post. It was just so unbelievable that you would carelessly throw around such assertions. You did give "Aram et. al" credit for using "logical responses" to debunk your beliefs. Therefore, if our responses are logical--your word--does that make your assertions illogical (the opposite of logical)? Please rethink your position on this issue. That's all I have to say. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1633 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Shave, the thing is -- we all want to see everything through logical perspectives. Every place I visited outside Michigan uses that. However, I still stand true with my statements that Detroit is not the place where logic is the rule; it's more like the exception in order to live, survive and work in this city. Crazy and absurd things are so normal nowadays you don't even question them anymore (It seems like the ones who do question are the ones impacted the hardest such as their jobs and quality of life). Just like Kwame did not have to lie and hide the evidence for the party, and the other consistent lying he has done boldface ever since. | ||
Bostedguy Member Username: Bostedguy Post Number: 189 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.209.65 |
Who's gonna get the last word in? | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 226 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.222.64.228 |
Okay, it seems everyone on this post agrees that the party did happen. Didn't your mayor came out on several occasions and say that the party didn't happen? From my recollection he has denied this party over and over again. His lying has got to stop. That's what pisses me off about him. So, with that being said, it seems to me that he is a type of person that will stop at nothing. No proof, probably not, but I wouldn't discredit anything, not when it comes to Big Pimpin'. Do any of you know the people he runs with...birds of a feather... | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 1984 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.122.200 |
If anyone actually went to "this party" or can present solid evidence regarding it. I recommend they contact the media, FBI, or Attorney General. Otherwise it is baseless speculation and gossip. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3042 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.32.161 |
Folks want to make the alleged party real. BUT two state investigative agencies have determined that no party took place. While the DetNews and Freep reported on the rumors, they stopped reporting anything once the state police and the AG reported their findings. Are folks going to claim that KK has enough power to force those two state agencies to lie? | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 2958 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Why not Brian? You accuse the Archer administration of similar coverups with no proof. You have alleged Archer's involvement with murder in Bursh Park and have not posted any proof....whats the difference? | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 138 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.86.206 |
People believe that Michael Cox found "no party" because he had then the aspiration to run for Governor and he will need the Detroit vote. He would be ruined in Detroit if he pursued a prosecution of the (then) brand-new mayor of Detroit. That party happened. I have heard from too many people close to the Mayor's office. Also, reporters following it at the time could not get the emergency room records they needed (the girl who was beat-up) because of the privacy law. And, you may have read, Cox (who could have gotten them) did not subpoena any records, nor would he allow the State Police to issue the critical subpoenas. From the Free Press: "On June 24, Cox said the party "had all the earmarks of an urban legend." He faulted Kilpatrick's bodyguards for reaping exorbitant overtime and questioned mayoral chief of staff Christine Beatty's judgment in recommending Brown's firing. The state police continued without Cox, interviewing 55 people before closing their investigation and declaring in January that they found no proof of wrongdoing. On April 2, the Free Press revealed that state police investigators had complained that Cox undermined their investigation by refusing to approve search warrants and subpoenas. Cox disagreed with those reports, and reiterated his finding." By M.L. Elrick and Jim Schaefer | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 1021 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 63.149.5.130 |
Where is your proof that this conspiracy theory is happening? You say you have heard from too many people? That does not sound like good proof to me rumors and innuendo only sell cheap newspapers. Not that I want to anything good happen to KK but so far the FREEP or News have found nothing solid and no action has been taken against the mayor. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 139 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.86.206 |
Obviously, I have no proof. I did not say I had "proof." I was pointing out the possible motives of the state agencies that investigated. If proof were available to people who have no personal interest in a cover-up then we would have it. But, as it stands, many of the key people appear to have a motive for covering-up, for refusing to assist the investigation. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 233 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.216.135.67 |
Ilovedetroit....it happened..that's all I can say... | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 1796 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
"Where is your proof that this conspiracy theory is happening? You say you have heard from too many people? That does not sound like good proof to me rumors and innuendo only sell cheap newspapers." Ironic "Ilovedetroit", you're the same person that posted a story you (allegedly) heard from a drunk Ilitch executive at a bar about the Hendrix campaign. You still can't keep your stories straight. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 1023 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 63.149.5.130 |
Again a bunch of mindless oh poor Freman he is getting beat up. I know we are desperate for new leadership but don't put a halo on this guy yet. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 1801 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
..Because "you're still deciding on whom to vote for", right "Ilovedetroit"? (Ignoring, of course, your previous declaration that you would absolutely vote for Kilpatrick if McPhail did not advance). | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 536 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.195 |
Hi, Metro. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3051 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.83.74 |
Helmut's bragging is getting him in hot water. The many times he stated, "I have lots of money", is coming back to haunt him. I don't think Comerica will risk its banking license just to protect an ex-deputy mayor. The pressure being applied will show which candidate has real support. How about that skulker? Helmut is trying to fight Sharon McPhail and still continues to criticize her on the streets of Detroit. Is that sour grapes? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 904 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.50.157 |
Comerica is legally required to protect the confidentiality of its transactions with customers.
Source? | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 1803 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.74.4.20 |
Hey Shave! | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 1033 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 63.149.5.130 |
Metro - at this point I think both our choices are shit. However, one is old and crooked and one is young and crooked - since you can't teach an old dog new tricks I guess I might go with the young dog. Maybe he will at least listen or maybe he won't. I am leaning towards KK but I won't make up my mind for sure until closer to the 8th. Frankly I can't stand Freman I think he is selling you all out and you just don't realize it. But everyone is so affraid of KK and loves Detroit so much that they think that Freman might just save us. I am not so stupid as to think that. Freman has NEVER done anything for any of us. He worked for Archer - which is not enough for me. I never thought Archer was all that great - and Hendrix is just Archer in short pants. When I make up mind on who I am voting for (and I will admit to waffling on this as they both make me ill) I will be glad to tell you. However, I have no intentions of putting a sign in my yard or actively campaigning for either of those two. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 1831 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.13.178 |
So you're lying again "Ilovedetroit". You previously claimed that you would absolutely support KK if McPhail lost. You can go ahead and drop the impartial act. You still can't keep your stories straight. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 966 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.56.112 |
ILD: I think you have some seriously messed up priorities. This election isn't about who is the young or old dog. It's not even about who is more or less corrupt. This is about Detroit. If all I wanted in a mayor is a choir boy, I'd go to church and grab one. This November we have two choices for mayor. Candidate A: A less than pure gentleman who will make sure that the cops show up when someone dials 9-1-1. Candidate B: A guy who doesn't seem even remotely concerned about whether or not the cops show up. It's that simple. | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 514 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.166.103 |
If you are a simpleton. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 971 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.47.144 |
Histeric: Would you care to elaborate? | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 515 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.166.103 |
No, I would not. |
