  Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1628 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Look at the records, Farrakhan urges voters By Bankole Thompson The Michigan Citizen DETROIT – Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan says Detroit’s two mayoral candidates should run on their records. In an exclusive Aug.16 interview with the Black press at the Charles Wright Museum of African American History, Farrakhan said voters in Detroit should be able to view the records of Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick and Freman Hendrix before voting for them in the general election. “Detroit is a microcosm of everything that is happening in Black America,” Farrakhan said. “The people need to know the records of all the candidates. We have homelessness, people living under the bridges because there is no economic opportunity.” Farrakhan said the problems in Detroit demand the kind of leadership that would “run for a bag of ideas and not a bag of tricks.” “I don’t care who your mayor is, you got your work cut out for you,” Farrakhan said. “If you don’t care, you should never be in office.” Twenty-three percent of voters in Detroit showed up at the polls during the primary election. That percentage translates to about 130,000 of the city’s 620,000 registered voters. While low voter turnout remains a concern in the city, Farrakhan said it was an indication that people are “dissatisfied.” “Voter apathy is a sign of dissatisfaction and disappointment,” Farrakhan said. “We need to know why the people are dissatisfied.” Earlier, at a Detroit city council meeting called by Councilwoman JoAnn Watson, Farrakhan warned Black elected officials not to tolerate corruption. “If we love this city, we have to stamp out greed and corruption,” Farrakhan said. “I don’t have an axe to grind with anyone.” The NOI leader also had a message for the clergy. “Political power is buying spiritual men with little gifts,” Farrakhan said. He also said if preachers refuse to speak out against the injustices and corruption in their communities “then [they] are going to hell.” Councilman Alonzo Bates, who was at the meeting, took offense at Farrakhan’s remarks when approached by The Michigan Citizen about the status of a federal grand jury investigation over allegations of corruption in his office. “Y’all don’t do me right. Why should I talk to you?” Bates said in an angry tone. “You just want to take this and run with it. That’s all you do.” The councilman walked away angrily saying, “I never should have talked to his a--. He ain’t no good.” Annette Rainwater, a supporter of Bates, said the councilman’s record of helping Blacks is outstanding. “I know his history with Blacks,” Rainwater said. “I supported him for council.” One observer at meeting thought Bates behaved improperly. “That is the first question any reporter in this city would ask him. He should have a ready answer, especially when it is the Black press.” Farrakhan, who was here to promote the Millions More Movement, underscored the importance of the Black press during an interview. However, WHPR TV 33 & 88.1FM talk show host Richard Hairston said the minister’s words rang hollow when no effort was made to have him visit TV 33, Detroit’s Black-owned television station. Hairston said during his daily afternoon show that a visit to WHPR would have spurred support for the station beyond its usual audience. However, Farrakhan granted an interview with FOX 2 News in Southfield and thanked one of its anchorwomen Fanchon Stinger during an Aug. 16 rally at Fellowship Chapel. “It is amazing that in these times there are still prophets crying out in the wilderness and indeed Minister Farrakhan is a prophet with a message,” said Horatio Bennett, a leader in the Caribbean community in Detroit. “I believe the time has come for our people to begin to take notice of what our leaders are saying. Minister Farrakhan’s message was befitting for these times when frustration and hopelessness take the very life out of our daily struggle to survive.” Bennett said he was thrilled to learn that both parents of Farrakhan are Caribbean. Council issued a resolution in support of the Millions More Movement to Farrakhan for the October 15 event to be held in Washington, DC. http://www.michigancitizen.com /default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1 &twindow=&mad=&sdetail=2027&wp age=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=& ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reop tion=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=& rebed=&rebath=&subname= | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1293 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.101 |
Did I accidentally stumble into the Mayoral Super Thread? | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 24 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 12.109.9.154 |
Give me a freakin' break. I do not give a rats ass what Farrakhan says, he is a phoney as even you pointed out by not visiting WHPR TV 33 & 88.1FM. Farrakhan has a talent for provocation that has won him many enemies and vast publicity. He stirs up shite for hatred, period. Here are some additional pronouncements from this useless talking head: "White people are potential humans - they haven't evolved yet." Philadelphia Inquirer, March 2000 "They [the Jews] are the greatest controllers of black minds, black intelligence. They write the scripts - the foolish scripts on television that our people portray. They are the movie moguls that feature us in these silly, degrading, degenerate roles. "The great recording companies that portray our people in such a filthy and low-rating way, yet they would not allow such a man as Michael Jackson to say one word that they thought would besmirch their reputation, but they put us before the world as clowns and as purveyors of filth. No, I will fight that." Meet The Press interview, October 1998 "The Jews have been so bad at politics they lost half their population in the Holocaust. They thought they could trust in Hitler, and they helped him get the Third Reich on the road." Saviours' Day speech, Chicago, February 1998 "Of course, they [the Jews] have a very small number of people but they are the most powerful in the world, they have the power to do good and they have the power to do evil ... Now what do the Jews do best? Well, they have been the best in finance that the world has ever known ... "They finance a lot of stuff in the world, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they are not good politicians, they are the worst politicians because they don't recognise really their friends and as well their enemies ... " Saviours' Day speech, Chicago, February 1998 "It seems like being gay or whatever sin you wish to be a part of is okay ... but I have the duty to lift that gay person up to the standard to ask if they want to live the life that God wants them to or live the lifestyle that they want to live." Boston speech, August 1997 "I believe that for the small numbers of Jewish people in the United States, they exercise a tremendous amount of influence on the affairs of government ...Yes, they exercise extraordinary control, and black people will never be free in this country until they are free of that kind of control ... " Meet The Press interview, April 1997 "I don't own Hollywood. Who depicted black people? Who writes the books? Who writes the plays, the songs that make us look less than human? Do you mean to tell me that Jews have never done any evil to black people? ... "Were they not involved in the slave trade? Yes, they were ... and to the extent that they were involved, somebody has to bring them to account. And I believe that has fallen on me." Interview with New York Amsterdam News, January 1994 | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1632 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Quozl, what does your post have to do with the article? I don't like Louis Farrakhan's past actions myself, but please comment on the article, not your undying hatred of the man. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 25 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 12.109.9.154 |
Nothing. I do not hate him, simply loathe him and any message or utterance that comes from his lips. It would not be fair for me to comment as I have been away from my great hometown 31 years now. Alright, one comment: Voter Turnout...“Voter apathy is a sign of dissatisfaction and disappointment,” Farrakhan said. “We need to know why the people are dissatisfied.” Voter turnout is low here in Houston during primaries as well. I do not think you have to be a Rocket Scientist to figure out that people in Detroit could very well be dissatisfied with politics in general as they have heard alot of talk for the past 25 years and not much action. Unemployment is also a big factor. When you do not have a job, or are underemployed, you feel hopeless, no where to turn. I personally left Detroit on August 28, 1974 because I could not find viable employment up there. 6 years in the US Navy, 6 years of eduction at the University of Florida I have a super career. I was brought up to believe that you pull up stakes and GO where the jobs are, do not wait for them to come to me. I am coming up there in two weeks and am seriously considering buying a home AND moving my business to Detroit to be closer to my mum and pop. My sister who lives in Plymouth tells me I am in for a very rude awakening, that the devastation I will see with these big eyes of mine may change my mind. I hope this is not the case. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1189 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.148.5 |
most facists say a few things that make a lot of sense.("if we love this city, we need to stamp out greed and corruption") ..then they throw in some nonsesene about some group that is the cause of the "problem". To his credit, LF does not seem to be blaming "The Jews" for Detroit's problems. Or maybe he has just toned down his fascism...Either way, he's just another slimy preacher to me. But so many people are so desperate for answers that I can understand how a few might cling to his words. Incidentally, one friend of mine briefly attended one of his mosques, but stopped going because the folks who ran the mosque refused to answer questions about what percentage of the money donated was kept locally and what percentage was sent to Chicago. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1634 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Well, a lot has changed since August 1974. But there are also some new beginnings as well, such as Downtown Detroit and Midtown/Cultural Center. You may not even recognize the suburbs and the continuing exodus to the exurbs (hehe). | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 30 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 12.109.9.154 |
The burbs will not be explored except to see my sister Kathleen in Plymouth. We are going to look at houses in Grandmont and one house in particular in the Berry Subdivision on Parkview Drive to possibly purchase. Kinda pricey but we will easily get $700,000.00 for our home here in Houston. | ||
Delray_danny Member Username: Delray_danny Post Number: 62 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.201 |
"In an exclusive Aug.16 interview with the Black press at the Charles Wright Museum of African American History..." Since when do they start excluding journalists from press conferences based on their skin color? Oh, I forgot. Farrakhan thinks my eight-year-old son is the devil because of his skin pigmentation. Why anyone would listen to anything this idiot says is way beyond me. | ||
Romanized Member Username: Romanized Post Number: 122 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.40.78.4 |
All of you are acting silly and generalizing. Farrakhan is one of the few black leaders that tells our community first to get its act together and not beg anyone for anything. That basically all he does. But you people can pick an isolated instance in which he said something to hurt your little feelings and meditate on that. Grow up and get a life, Please. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7011 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.210.118 |
Romanized, You still don't get it. Does Farrakahn have some good messages? Yes he does. But he still masks many of thosemeesages in scapegoats and hate. That is a fact that cannot be denied. David Duke had some good messages as well but he too masked them in hate and scapegoating. Should we all follow his advice? I doubt it. All people in the position of power have the ability to come across with great messages. But if those messages have hidden agendas or innuendos that message or person MUST be held accountable regardless of what is said and how "good" the message is perceived to be. | ||
Romanized Member Username: Romanized Post Number: 123 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.40.78.4 |
WTF are you talking about? "This is a fact", Bwhahaha. Dude you sound fresh out of sixth period middle school debate class. Man, when people get pissy they lose the most basic reasoning skills. First, I highly doubt you have read and studied the Minister extensively, but are mental infact reacting to noises around you. As for Farrakhan, he calls a spade a spade, a racist a racist, as do I. But more than anything he calls for personally responsibility from blake male especially, and that is a good thing. I most certainly hope you are black, telling us what leaders we should and should not have. It is not Farrakhan's job to make the establishment feel comfortable but to uplift his people BAMN. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 4710 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.61.197.236 |
Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan says Detroit’s two mayoral candidates should run on their records. Well, duh. What else would the candidates run on? Their good looks? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 855 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.181 |
On this, I am in complete agreement with Mr. Farrakhan. Of course, I think it was mildly ironic that an article beginning with that statement would not include any references to the candidates' records. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1192 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.149.18 |
Well, lots of people admired Hitler for the way he improved the unemployment problems in Germany in the 1930's. (If you are ever at Henry Ford Museum, ask them if you can see the Medal that Hitler gave to his admirer, Henry Ford. They won't admit to having it, of course)... While you are checking out the message of the great minister, stroll by the minister's book shop and check to see if "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is still on the shelves, or or a ask if they have any phony-ass vitamins being sold as a "cure for aids". Don't forget to ask which preacher is alleged to have been involved in the murder of Malcom X... And don't forget to give the preacher lots of your money. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3043 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.83.168 |
Goat wrote,
I don't recall any myself, but that is just my opinion. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 505 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
Why do White people feel the need to speak for Black people regarding who our leaders should be, which form they should take, and what statements they should make so as not to offend them? Seems as though the same mentality that a lot of Whites had when co-founding the NAACP still exists. Alas, the more things change, the more they stay the same. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 506 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
...and another thing--WTF is up lately with all of these stupid ass Hitler references? | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 228 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.216.112.147 |
LF has very good ideas. He is a black leader and many look up to him....white people get over it! When he talks to his people he tells them to better themselves, and his teachings are powerful. I do not follow him, but I listen to him because his words are powerful. Okay, so he may not particularly like white people....that is his opinion and his right. I guess it hurts when someone doesn't like you because of your skin color huh???? Doesn't feel good does it when the shoe is on the other foot? Been there, done that, live it every day of my life. "Oh, I forgot. Farrakhan thinks my eight-year-old son is the devil because of his skin pigmentation." As I recall the Mormons used to teach that blacks couldn't get into the Kingdom of Heaven. We really could give two shits what they thought, and wish they would stop coming into our neighborhoods now...all because they possibly had a change of heart..who frickin' cares. Don't start no crap on this thread people. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 741 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
So next time a white person is talking about white power with messages of hate or blame for certain races the correct reponse when African-American complain is "get over it". I will remember that. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7030 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.197.60 |
Because he is a black leader no one should argue what his message is? Shave, I don't believe that white people are trying to speak for black people. What the forumers are doing is stating that Farrakahn is a racist. We all know he has some good messages but when they are blanketed in racism that message must be thrown out the window. Take the racism out of his message and those statements are quite wonderful. Empowerment is a wonderful thing as long as it stays true to its message. Farrakahn uses scapegoats to get his across and that is certainly wrong. I have no room in my life for racism regardless of who says it. No one gets a free ride on that issue. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 516 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
Well Goat, what is conveyed as racism to you may be the truth to me--a Black American. I don't need any White person to attempt to put in context, for me at least, the underlying messages in a Black leader's speech. This is not meant to disrespect you. You can call LF out and put his messages on front street. However, don't be surprised when Blacks who are passionate about his messages and their content call you out. Merchantgander, as for the KKK, I could care less about a group of INSIGNIFICANT, piss-poor, White, angry, illiterate and uneducated feral POS. Too bad you let LF get to you like that (LOL). | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 745 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.245 |
I never mentioned the KKK, trust me I don't give a shit about LF and he doesn't get to me I was making a point. I myself don't get caught up in hate. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1649 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
LOL @ Shave. Since when was the last time a racist white leader had anything significant and un-racist to say anydays? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7043 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.197.60 |
Ltorivia485. The same can be said about a racist (insert any colour) leader as well. Shave. If you get a positive message out of it then good for you, sincerely. But you cannot deny others who feel that his message is racist (especially Jews since he targets them the hardest). I wouldn't expect anything less from Black people if a white person were to say racist or insulting remarks about Black folks. ...appreciating the dialogue. | ||
Bostedguy Member Username: Bostedguy Post Number: 198 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.53.7 |
What is this double speak, what are these double standards? It's ok for black "leaders" to trash whites and Jews, but not for white leaders to trash other races. It's bullshit. People of my generation, at least, were brought up to be color blind, that race didn't matter, that what mattered was not the color of the skin but the character of the individual. Now I learn, by living in this racist city, with some racist neighbors, and some racist workers in stores and restaurants, and some racist comments on this forum, that that was all a scam. It appears as though blacks don't want equal footing. Or do they? I think they would prefer racial separation. Rather than trying to influence the entire society of our country for permanent change, they prefer to embrace racism. I don't see a problem with any race, or gender, or group, trying to strengthen themselves with motivational rhetoric. But you don't do it at the expense of others who are different than you. (Message edited by bostedguy on August 23, 2005) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4006 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
Bosted, great post. Shave, you wrote: "Well Goat, what is conveyed as racism to you may be the truth to me--a Black American. I don't need any White person to attempt to put in context, for me at least, the underlying messages in a Black leader's speech. " Can you say "double standard"? Because no matter how you cut it, that's what it is. Replace "black" with "white" and "white" with "black" in your quote, and if I posted that very same comment, I'd be torn apart for being a racist. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4007 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
And for that matter, why must there be a "Black America" and a "White America"? Why can't there just be "America"? I guess being raised colorblind has put me in the minority. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1650 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Colorblind is another form of racism, aram. The belief that people share no differences and we are all equal. It's ignoring the real hardships and discrimination people face in the real world. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4008 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.31.87 |
You've got to be kidding me. That's ridiculous. Is that another thing you learned at Northwestern? I'm surprised. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1651 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
Check this book out: RACISM WITHOUT RACISTS: COLOR-BLIND RACISM AND THE PERSISTENCE OF RACIAL INEQUALITY IN THE UNITED STATES. By Eduardo Bonilla-Silva In his recent book, Racism Without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in the United States, Eduardo Bonilla-Silva analyzes the use of color-blind ideology as a tool to perpetuate the second-class status of blacks.6 Although Bonilla-Silva’s book focuses on the use of color-blind ideology by the average, white American citizen, the application of his framework to the recent Supreme Court decisions on affirmative action demonstrates that the ideology is so pervasive that it is utilized even by the nation’s highest court. http://www.bc.edu/schools/law/ lawreviews/meta-elements/journ als/bctwj/24_2/07_TXT.htm | ||
Bostedguy Member Username: Bostedguy Post Number: 200 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.53.7 |
I see...so now the message has changed. Is that it? What will it be next year, so I can prepare for it? I actually teach my white "Cracker" students that race doesn't matter since some are not taught it at home...that it's character and work ethic and ability that matter. Please tell me what I should teach them. Please enlighten me, because I obviously don't get the message myself. | ||
Bostedguy Member Username: Bostedguy Post Number: 201 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.53.7 |
Well, LT, while I haven't read it yet and may not agree with it, I do appreciate the link so that I can learn another point of view. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1652 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
More articles: See No Evil: Perception and Reality in Black and White By Tim Wise http://www.zmag.org/sustainers /content/2001-08/02wise.htm The Truth is Rarely Pleasant: Racism, White Denial, and Some Thoughts on Being "Divisive" By Tim Wise http://www.zmag.org/sustainers /content/2001-01/18wise.htm The Kids Are All White: Riots, Pathology, and the Real Meaning of Color-Blindness By Tim Wise http://www.zmag.org/sustainers /content/1999-08/26wise.htm | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 1653 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 69.217.229.79 |
From Tim Wise's "The Truth is Rarely Pleasant" This was made clear to me after my recent keynote address to the St. Louis Mayor's Conference on Racial Justice and Harmony, this past October. Though my speech was generally well received, with a standing ovation from at least 800 of the 1200 persons in the audience, there were apparently some in attendance who were not so pleased. And these few--all of them white--have been complaining loudly about my "divisive" rhetoric, which, according to these folks, makes racial harmony more difficult than ever. What had I said, exactly, to upset these dear souls? Who knows? Bitter memos sent around city hall didn't specify, and the gossip columnist for the city's daily, The Post-Dispatch, who ran a blip on the "controversy" didn't elaborate either. But I would assume they were upset because I said among other things the following, backed up, of course, with statistical support: It is whites who are in denial about the ongoing problem of racism, and this denial is itself a form of racism: a kind of white supremacy that says, "I know your reality better than you do;" The biggest barriers to racial harmony and racial justice are institutional racism and the existence of systemic white privilege in all walks of life; "Diversity" and "tolerance" are not worth fighting for, unless accompanied by equity and justice: the first two are easy and meaningless, the latter two take work; To most people of color these positions are not that radical. But apparently there are still some of my people who get mightily offended by being reminded that we have some work to do--both individually and collectively--and until we do it, there will be no kumbaya chorus. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 519 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.134 |
I'm not racist--just informed. Like I have pointed out before, I live in an all-white subdivision. I am literally the only Black. No one bothers me and vice versa. However, I can see the stark contrast when I visit the inner-city and when I am in my suburban enclave. I see it and I allow myself to understand why the differences exist. Moreover, I don't turn a blind eye to this harsh reality because to do so would make me a part of the problem. | ||
Bostedguy Member Username: Bostedguy Post Number: 203 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.53.7 |
I am still not getting it. I read all the links. I am trying to be open-minded about the issue, but I am still not seeing why anybody should be racist. You seem to have jumped on my use of the term "color blind." I was unaware that there was some negatvie connotation with that term and will avoid its use in the future. I didn't mean color blind as if I were in denial that there are cultural and economic diffrences. I didn't mean color blind as in pretending that there are not still issues to address. I DID mean color blind as in there should be true equality for all races. Therefore, my point is, while your posts have enlightened me somewhat, LT, I still don't understand why some blacks feel it necessary to trash whites and Jews in their strive for equality. That was my point all along. | ||
Jmil Member Username: Jmil Post Number: 1309 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.248.55.151 |
"I still don't understand why some blacks feel it necessary to trash whites and Jews in their strive for equality." Bos, I might be able to help you there without getting all caught up. It is very difficult for many to differentiate between racism, and its ill effects, and those that are responsible. (white people) Should I hate all racism? Yes Should I hate all white people? not if you are MLK, but others feel differently. Because they feel its one and the same. Right or wrong, thats reality. | ||
Bostedguy Member Username: Bostedguy Post Number: 205 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.53.7 |
I must take issue if your assertion is that whites are responsible for racism TODAY. If you were talking historically, I can't say that I disagree. However, if you were talking about racism today, it is obviously, by your post, a two-way street. By your reasoning, then I should hate all black people because some are criminals, some are racist, and some are a drain on society. | ||
Jmil Member Username: Jmil Post Number: 1310 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.248.55.151 |
bos, take all the issue you want. I don't care what you think. Told ya I was not gonna get caught up. What you think how it should be will not change how it is. That is reality. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7048 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.156.94.30 |
Shave I hope you attend the discussion that Spakle is working on. You too Bostedguy. Jmil, I know you will be there. : ) | ||
Bostedguy Member Username: Bostedguy Post Number: 208 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.53.7 |
I know, Jmil. I am commenting not just at you, but for the sake of the argument. |
