  mike (12.247.35.107 - 12.247.35.107) |
If anyone picks up a Sunday edition of the ChiTown Tribune, you'll read an article about the homes featuring the Lee Plaza lions. The architechs have received an award for recognizing historic preservation on those properties... With a little help from their Detroit friends. Hmm... | ||
!!! (207.43.107.5 - 207.43.107.5) |
Show them a picture of what's left of the Lee Plaza now and say "here's you're historic preservation!" | ||
jjaba (198.81.26.237 - 198.81.26.237) |
This is so sick. Please post the article on Sunday for this world to see it and then we can take action. A few letters to the editor would be tasty once we see what they have to say. This shit's gotta stop. jjaba | ||
Andrew in Windsor (67.68.222.125 - 67.68.222.125) |
jjaba, I believe it's spelled schitt. Preservation my ass! | ||
ISLD (12.241.148.103 - 12.241.148.103) |
I ran through the on-line Tribune... I didn't see anything. Somebody go get a hard-copy! | ||
The Ghettoman (64.12.96.230 - 64.12.96.230) |
It's a good thing that the 26 out of 30 lion heads are recovered. Those architects from Chicago's G.R.E.E.D. Corps don't deserve a award for looting our historical buildings for thier historical buildings. Leave our Detroit buildings alone. Or I'll go over there and take it back. | ||
Lowell (165.247.229.120 - 165.247.229.120) |
Found it. Click here for full article, but here are the relevant quotes. Note the missing talk about the lions, the only redeeming item of that 'restoration'. "Seven of the nine non-monetary awards handed out at the event, put on by the Landmarks Preservation Council of Illinois earlier this month and sponsored by the Driehaus Foundation, went to projects completed in the city. The five-member jury, which chose nine winners from 50 nominees, was particularly drawn to a development of six rowhouses at 1218-32 W. Bryn Mawr Ave. in Chicago's Edgewater neighborhood. The rowhouses were an infill new-construction project among historic buildings that balanced historic and contemporary architectural features. The 3,300-square-foot rowhouses, developed by Bob and Rae Ann Cecrle, stand betweentwo historic districts -- the Lakewood Balmoral residential district with buildings from the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, and the Bryn Mawr historic commercial district with buildings from the from the 1920s. "You can definitely tell that these are new buildings. They are not trying to create some kind of Disneyland facade where they are simply copying and recreating historic buildings," said Pauline Saliga, executive director of the Society of Architectural Historians and one of the five jurors. "It is designed not so much as a mimic or copy of surrounding historic buildings, just as a new project that is respectful of the proportions and varied materials used in historic buildings. Instead of all brick, [the rowhouses] mixed brick and stone and copper used in original ways," said Charles Pipal, a Chicago architect and awards juror. . "An architectural historian looking at these buildings a hundred years from now would never place them in the 1890s even though their facades have a variety of materials. Those historians would see modern materials such as pressed metal and ornamentation." Part of that balance was achieved by staggering the facades of each unit, recessing every other unit about 3 feet from the adjacent building. "It gave it a distinct look and adds rhythm and individuality to each unit," said Thom Greene of Greene & Proppe Design. Like the Cerlces, Greene lives in Edgewater and has long been involved in the community's historic preservation efforts. He said features such as a metal arbor at the top of three of the rowhouses and a particularly large scale in the bay windows of the units with 6 foot square windows, are just a couple of contemporary touches to the buildings. "It also filled in an eyesore of a lot," Saliga said. When the Cerlces bought the site in 1998, it had been vacant for six years, and a boarded-up vacant building stood on the site for a decade before that. "It was like a big missing tooth," Greene said. Source: New construction wins a preservation award Bungalows, boathouse, lily pond also honored By Jeanette Almada Special to the Tribune Published September 29, 2002 Copyright © 2002, Chicago Tribune | ||
Lowell (165.247.229.120 - 165.247.229.120) |
Here is the price of their award. Lee Plaza Rape also there are still many missing lions including the ones stuck in the award winning ye olde condos Partial recovery of Lee Plaza lions. | ||
SueK. (165.247.229.120 - 165.247.229.120) |
Found the site that advertises the 'pillage of Detroit' award. The buildings given the 2002 Richard H. Driehaus Foundation preservation awards by Landmarks Preservation Council of Illinois. See Detroit's Lee Plaza Lions at: http://www.landmarks.org/programs_driehaus_2001.htm I plan on contacting the Chicago Tribune and Landmark Preservations Council...this is a despicable award. The Richard H. Driehaus Foundation is also funded by the famous John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. One of the most lucrative and prestigious granting sources in the country. Yes I will write to them too . . . follow the money. Sue K. | ||
jjaba (198.81.18.181 - 198.81.18.181) |
This is excellent scholarship. It would be helpful if somebody in Chicago would jot down names and addresses of the primary players in this charade of an awards ceremony. Since I am a memember of the SAH, I'll do my part since this is disgusting that they were a part of it. Thanks. Save Detroit's parts, jjaba | ||
Frank C. (198.81.17.173 - 198.81.17.173) |
I don't Quite understand the problem. If the police have already been involved why don't they do something. Perhaps this is a case for the F.B.I. interstate transportatation of stolen goods, theft of arch. relics, something. Did the owner of the building let them off the hook buy allowing them to purchase the purloined lions or what, something doesn't seem quite right. Besides the theft I mean! | ||
Sue K. (165.247.229.120 - 165.247.229.120) |
I will be writing letter to the following: Landmarks Preservation Council of Illinois attention: President: David Bahlman 53 W. Jackson Blvd., Suite 752 Chicago, IL 60604 (this is the organization that gave the award) Chicago Tribune attention: Letters to the editor 435 N. Michigan Ave Chicago, IL 60611 (story by Jeanette Almada 9/29/02) The two addresses above have a solid link to the award. I am checking out if the Richard H. Driehaus Foundation in Chicago is affiliated with this award. URL: http://www.macfound.org/announce/announcement_archive/driehaus.htm Sue K. | ||
Lowell (165.247.229.120 - 165.247.229.120) |
A postcard from Chicago!  | ||
jwarren (207.221.71.121 - 207.221.71.121) |
While having the Lee Lions "reside" in Chicago is certainly a slap in the face to Detroit, I think much of the anger shown here needs to be re-directed to the saps who are "caretakers" of Detroit's architectural past. What morons let these lions be filfered right out from underneath them? This is truly sad. Smells bad like an inside job to me, yet no outcry to go after the LOCAL - REPEAT - LOCAL, guilty parties. Those from Chicago just didn't drive into town and set up a ladder. Wake up before more of the same occurs! | ||
SueK. (165.247.229.120 - 165.247.229.120) |
I agree with JWarren. The lack of a consistant policy of how our buildings are treated in Detroit is a disgrace. Laws do exhist to prevent this theft but police do not enforce them. Policies on historic properties must be established with city council and the mayors office then enforced by the police. Zoning boards need to go after neglegent owners of properties that are being allowed to decay. There is a lack of regulation surrounding the 'antique' sales & distribution in our country as well. Lowly pawn shops have to document where they obtain merchandise but antique dealers are not regulated by the same laws. I have been told by reliable sources that the stolen Lee Plaza Lions where obtained at the Saline/Ann Arbor Antique fair. Now wouldn't it appear a tad suspicious to any buyer that a dealer that has not 1 but over 30 of these historic items is suspect of trading in stolen goods? Is this whole trade in architectual elements a 'don't ask don't tell' policy? One is not able to move fine works of art around with out proper 'provinance' documentation. Perhaps the same sort of regulations need to be applied to architecual elements that are on fine art works. Yes I am ranting....yes I am new to the forum....I've been in this city for numerous decades...it's all pent up! Sue K. | ||
leElionZ (68.41.224.89 - 68.41.224.89) |
Scavengers who strip our historic buildings will cease to exist when the buyers of scavenged artifacts are put out of business. The buyers in Chicago were in fact caught with the stolen lions in their possesion and were NOT procecuted. This needs to change. The buyers need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, or Detroit will remain the way it is. | ||
jwarren (67.25.197.222 - 67.25.197.222) |
leElionZ: What you say is true, but Detroit needs to clean up their act at the local level starting with building department inspectors, etc. Otherwise we'll all be crying about the next group of artifacts that surfaced in Kansas City, Pittsburgh, or wherever. | ||
jjaba (198.81.16.168 - 198.81.16.168) |
Excellent postcard Lowell. We need more email and adresses and phone numbers. Anybody who gives a damn about preservation must move into action. jjaba | ||
Frank C. (198.81.18.157 - 198.81.18.157) |
I think the FBI takes this stuff seriously, they even have pages on their web site for stolen art and arch. relics, somebody their should contact the office in the big D. But like I said before some thing smells fishy about this whole thing. | ||
jwarren (67.24.116.234 - 67.24.116.234) |
Let's start with the FBI investigating the Detroit Building Dept., and/or the governing faction that owns the Lee Plaza. | ||
Lowell (165.247.229.120 - 165.247.229.120) |
I forgot to credit jjaba for the backgound picture of the captive lions on the above postcard. Thanks jjaba. | ||
jjaba (205.188.208.135 - 205.188.208.135) |
Yes, and jjaba is now in a writing and calling campaign to the sources given to me. This is the height of folly to give these people awards. Thanks Lowell for giving me credit for the photo, which you've gracefully manipulated for computer. All royalties from the sale of such postcards are yours. jjaba | ||
friend of preservation (198.81.26.237 - 198.81.26.237) |
Contact the Landmarks Preservation Council of Illinois if you have comments for them. They gave the prize to the townhomes using our stolen Detroit Lee Plaza lions. Thanks. Mail@LPCI.org | ||
Andrew in Windsor (67.68.221.127 - 67.68.221.127) |
I sent an e-mail off yesterday, here is the reply I recieved:
There you have it, the "official" reply. | ||
epotas (12.31.248.96 - 12.31.248.96) |
Just got the same reply Andrew. I am pretty sure there is a electronic paper trail regarding the "stolen" status of that ornament prior to the installation. Did the developer ask? Was he even curious as to the path these ornaments took to get into his hands? Should he have been? Why do criminals with dollars in their pockets get off so easily by pleading ignorance? | ||
Andrew in Windsor (67.68.222.157 - 67.68.222.157) |
Ed, I replied to them that the develloper was aware that the Lions were stolen after contacting Lowell, sometime during the construction phase of the project. At least they are in damage control. Even for a form letter, it was a better reply than I got from Illitch Holdings over the Madison-Lennox fiasco. | ||
jjaba (198.81.19.48 - 198.81.19.48) |
I also received the same reply and immediately asked Mr. David Bahlman, Ex. Dir. of LPCI to take leadership and revoke the award. I am also telling him he is bringing other folks down as well such as the Soc. of Arch. Historians since their Ex. Dir. was one of the jurors. I've written to her as I am a member of SAH, Natl. and Regional. Please write to MAIL@ LPCI.org. and ask Mr. Bahlman to take action to revoke the award. He is admitting the lions are stolen and still wants to take no action. Let's help him. Save Detroit buildings, save America, keep up the fight. jjaba | ||
Detroit Stylin (206.129.0.136 - 206.129.0.136) |
SO what exactly is gonna happen since apparently now people knows what happened here in detroit regasrding the Lee Plaza Lions? | ||
Doug W (64.3.232.18 - 64.3.232.18) |
I think maybe a few letters to the Chicago Tribune are in order, not because the Tribune necessarily needs to take action, but just to make sure the public at large is aware of the problem. | ||
rjlj (63.171.81.135 - 63.171.81.135) |
maybe the pubilc of Detroit need to bmade aware of the problem as well. Can this be sent to the news channels and newspapers? | ||
rjlj (63.171.81.135 - 63.171.81.135) |
I am reffering to the latest developments. I am aware that there was some coverage previous to this. | ||
jwarren (206.215.77.17 - 206.215.77.17) |
What action needs to be taken at the Detroit Dept of Buildings? Or the Detroit Police? Or are they too poor to be responsible for this whole charade. Seems they're as guilty as anyone. | ||
Detroit Stylin ready to start up some tiot! (207.74.196.20 - 207.74.196.20) |
how about if Problem solvers got a hold of the story? this is an issue that can use a little sensationalism....feel me? | ||
jjaba (198.81.19.21 - 198.81.19.21) |
Take action, Stylin'. Let us know what happens. jjaba | ||
einar (141.211.150.85 - 141.211.150.85) |
Wouldn't you know it. Parducci did some work on the Lee Plaza Bldg. Can't say the lions were his, but they could well have been. I think that was another Charles Agree Building, (see all the Vanity Ballroon stuff) but I'm not sure. if so his stuff is fairing rarther badly. eeek | ||
einar (141.211.150.85 - 141.211.150.85) |
Nope, The architect was Charles Noble. Still. . . . . . eeek | ||
Friend in D.C. (152.163.189.167 - 152.163.189.167) |
Einar - perhaps you might know something about this.... About a year ago I was killing time at the bar (big shocker) at Baltimore-Washington airport (BWI) and I was sketching in my note book. The guy next to me started talking and as the conversation evolved I told him about how much I loved Detroit history, architecture, etc.... His story went something like...He said some friends of his (this guy lived in Seattle) were architects in Detroit and they had worked on renovating a theater in "a really bad area of town". Apparently there was a lot of decorative plaster that needed to be repaired so they asked for bids from qualified artisans who could do the work. I guess the plaster work was pretty elaborate and they could only find a few people in the country that could actually do the work. One guy that came out to look at the job, climbed the scaffolding up to the ceiling to look at the ceiling plaster. He said the guy came down crying and said the work had been done by his father and that he wanted to restore it. The guy "with an Italian name" (he couldn't remember) was hired and apparently did a great job. So my question is - does this story sound ligit? And if so, any idea what theater? Any idea on who the original artist was? Any idea who this son was? I could be completely off base here. I mean, it was just a story a guy at a bar told me. I've always wanted to find out more but have never asked. P.S. Einar - I'd love to buy you a beer (or beverage of your choice) Monday at The Well. I'll be in town this weekend/week. | ||
Frank C. (198.81.19.189 - 198.81.19.189) |
Keep up the pressure un these Folks. E-mail them into submission. Mail@LPCI.org | ||
theatrEZ (68.41.224.89 - 68.41.224.89) |
Friend in D.C., it sounds like the Detroit Opera House (AKA Capitol Theatre when it opened in 1922, Paramount Theatre in 1929, Broadway-Capitol Theatre in 1934 and finally the Grand Circus Theater in the '60's) | ||
einar (65.189.19.145 - 65.189.19.145) |
DC - So where is the Well and what time is the beer to be had? PArducci does not have a son, or grandson in the plaster business. However at the height of his career, or at least when he was doing a lot of work - ie just before the Crash, he had a lot of folks working for him, and I assuming that some of them wwere Italians. Finding the names of the individuals who did this sort of work is a bit like finding the name of the plummer who did the plumming. It can be tough. Meanwhile, keep working those ars and let's see what else can be unearthed. eeek | ||
einar (65.189.19.145 - 65.189.19.145) |
that is to say, "keep working those BARS." eeek | ||
Lowell (165.247.229.120 - 165.247.229.120) |
Einar, see the "Must read info on next mondays meeting at the Well!!!!" thread in the Forum Community area for directions. | ||
jjaba (198.81.26.237 - 198.81.26.237) |
Jake Plummer works for the Arizona Cardinals. A plumber is a guy who fixes your leaks. jjaba | ||
einar (65.189.19.145 - 65.189.19.145) |
thanks lowell, found it. thanks jjaba - but nothing wrong with my leaks. Can't say the same about my spelling. eeek | ||
Frank C. (198.81.26.237 - 198.81.26.237) |
Any new news on this? | ||
Lostnyc Member Username: Lostnyc Post Number: 4 Registered: 06-2007 |
I happened to find this old thread but thought I'd post a response to some of the issues/questions raised. First, the lions are not stone they are glazed terra cotta originally made in molds as all of this stuff was- basically mass produced ceramics. The architect did not make the lions, chances are they were a stock design at the terra cotta factory, or one of their staff sculptors made a model which was approved by the architect and then a mold made and multiple copies cast from the mold(s). A good clay presser in those days could press 4 architectural sculptures an hour and many were paid by the piece not the hour. These lions while nice, are nothing really special nor difficult to make, I could sculpt one in clay from good photos in about 20-30 hours. The issue with these architectural sculptures is most till recent years wound up in the landfills around the country, a considerable amount of it STILL does and I have seen plenty of photos of recent demolitions where all the sculptures were destroyed- the costs to remove it from a building being imploded when you have contracts, deadlines and crews standing by is prohibitive. 99.9% of this stuff was made anonymously and has NO identification, tags or ownership information on them, thus, once a piece is removed from a building theres NO way to tell where it came from. Bear in mind these sculptures were ALL mass produced, made in molds, and were often used on other buildings and sometimes in other cities. When someone removes one of these and sells it at a flea market or antique show or to a salvage place, they usually will not say where it came from or make something up. I occasionally buy pieces for my collection and have run into a couple of BS sales pitch stories I know couldn't be true- one was the piece was "RARE" from 1880's theater facade of the so and so theater in Mid Town Manhattan, first- the style of the keystone didnt fit the theater facade I had photos of, second, the facade never had such keystones but common tenements DID, so the "famous theater" origin was bogus to make the price higher. I have looked at this Lee Plaza and frankly my experience tells me this building was doomed from the start- too big, too expensive to renovate, not in a good location and 9 times out of ten these buildings get demolished. Many are burned down, or in this case the roof is basically gone and in a couple of years the floors, walls etc are soaked, freezes crack bricks and facades, mold and and rot sets in. The police recovered 24 of the 58 or so lions according to what Ive read, chances are more than one salvager was involved- multiple scavengers. The missing lions, IF this building was ever restored, they would likely install thru the wall air conditioners right where those were under the window sills. If the building is demolished, then the 24 lions are basically property the police spent a lot of time and money on for nothing- they will be dumped or auctioned off as surplus city property. As to their value, I would estimate they would sell for $2500-$3000 each at one of those salvage outfits. When you buy from a place like that you can only assume what they sell is legit, there's NO way of telling otherwise as most of these salvage places don't even know the origins of the stuff themselves beyond "NYC apartment house" "A building in Harlem NYC" or other vague location. For the most part, once a building is this bad and far gone that stuff is yanked out of the facade, it's not going back in again. The salvage outfits have created the demand and prices on this material have become absolutely insane- $350-$500 for a pair of DOORKNOBS- get real! lighting fixtures are even more insane with simple metal sconces going for $2500-$3000. You have big bucks decorators, bars, restaurants and others who think nothing of spending $50,000 on some little something for decor and that drives the demand. You have old dented lead paint covered tin ceilings selling on Ebay for more than new now even though all these old tin ceiling designs have been replicated by several firms. I don't see any reduction in the demand, the demand is here to stay and increases every year, the supply is limited. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4705 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ok, I ws under the impression that they were all handcrafted and carved. My opinion on this hoopla has changed after finding out that they were mass-produced. |
