Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.28.88.45
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 3:26 pm: | |
I have a bunch of old photos of my family in Detroit and am wondering where some of the locations are where they lived. The photos below are from 1942 or so. The address is 3729, it appears to be a few houses from the main road and a place called "starboard service." Does anyone know where this is or if it still exists? Many thanks in advance!
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Itsjeff
Member Username: Itsjeff
Post Number: 5484 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.168.211
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 3:27 pm: | |
It appears to be a leper colony in Hawaii. |
Blessyouboys Member Username: Blessyouboys
Post Number: 270 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.209.163.183
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 3:31 pm: | |
hahaha |
Ddaydave Member Username: Ddaydave
Post Number: 291 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 67.149.185.244
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 3:33 pm: | |
LMAO leper colony in Hawaii...why would you hide the faces of 70 year old photos ??? |
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 640 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.220.224.157
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 3:33 pm: | |
Jeff! Shhh! Commerce! |
Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.28.88.45
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 3:35 pm: | |
So anyone responding would focus on the location and not the people. Looks like I failed miserably at that.... :-) |
Bibs Member Username: Bibs
Post Number: 451 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 4:15 pm: | |
This is a pretty easy one. Get a magnifying glass to get the names and/or phone numbers of the businesses in the pictures. Determine the approximate year the photos were take. Go to the Burton Historical collection and get a phone book from the year the pictures was taken. Look up the business names in phone book. Get their addresses. That will narrow it down to about a couple blocks. Search Google maps or MapQuest for the addresses. |
Ddaydave Member Username: Ddaydave
Post Number: 292 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 67.149.185.244
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 4:20 pm: | |
sarge could you enlarge the no vacancy sign in the forth picture down ..it has some other writing I cant make out |
Itsjeff
Member Username: Itsjeff
Post Number: 5487 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.168.211
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 4:39 pm: | |
"No Irish Allowed." |
Frank_c Member Username: Frank_c
Post Number: 401 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.200.116.139
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 4:44 pm: | |
Messing with the babies face....hey wha ya do that fo LOL |
Esp Member Username: Esp
Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.62.6.186
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 5:53 pm: | |
Bibs is right this should be easy. It looks like it reads ? Wilkes Apartment No Vacancy, taken 1941-45? Should be in the phone directory at Burton. What if you have an address, 1461 E. Forest, and curious about what was there in the 1930s-40s? |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2368 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 6:34 pm: | |
Esp, in 1935, 1461 E Forest was the home of Stanley Kolodziejczak. Interestingly, by 1940, it was the home of Stanley Kolad. Stan must have Americanized his name. Also, he took in a boarder because at the "rear" was living one Donnell McDaniel. Sarge, are you sure that service station sign is "Starboard Service," or is it really "Standard Service"? |
Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 6:38 pm: | |
MikeM, It could be standard service. Ddaydave, The sign in one of the pictures was actually the name of a management company for the property with a phone number. I've blown up the pictures as far as they can go and none of the writing becomes anymore recognizable. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the original pictures right now (at the office) or I would upload a few blowups. |
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm
Post Number: 486 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.189.188.28
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 6:41 pm: | |
That's an old Standard Oil of Indiana service station sign.... |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2369 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 6:49 pm: | |
Here's a crude map highlighting street blocks with addresses in the 3700-3800 range: Streets just north of Mack Avenue on the east side and Magnolia on the west, and streets crossing W Grand Blvd and Dexter on the west, and Mt Elliott on the east. |
Islandman Member Username: Islandman
Post Number: 57 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 7:12 pm: | |
Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you to do the above? Impressive.. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2370 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 7:17 pm: | |
About 5 minutes. The longest part was waiting for Photoshop to launch so I could edit the map I made using a GIS program. |
Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 206 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 7:30 pm: | |
I've heard some family folks allude to living on Calvert. And it appears there is a 3729 Calvert just off Dexter. Wonder if that could be it? Anyone live in that area? |
Cassie1717 Member Username: Cassie1717
Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 7:33 pm: | |
They kinda look like those multiple-family homes in Grosse Pointe Park along Kercheval. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2373 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 7:39 pm: | |
3279 Calvert is between Wildmere and Dexter. In 1935 & 1940, a Mrs Caroline Brosuis is living there; doesn't look as though it's an apartment building. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2376 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 1:30 am: | |
Oops, not 3279...3729 Calvert was on the other side of Dexter and the home of Henry Pullberg and Benjamin Braver. Sounds like a flat. I have a list of Standard service stations that I'll work on later. Doesn't appear to be any within a block of 3729 Calvert though. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3038 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 2:43 am: | |
This is definitely Westside and Calvert is a guess. The bldg.is altleast a six flat apt. bldg. It is a Jewish neighborhood. Might also be Boston, Chicago Blvd., Va. Park, Euclid, etc. That is a Standard Station and could be Dexter, Linwood, Woodrow Wilson, Hamilton. My guess is Linwood but could be Dexter. jjaba, good mystery. |
Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 207 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.28.88.45
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 8:16 am: | |
The sign visible in the one picture states (to the extent I can make it out): David Wilkes Management 5338 Cass Te 1-7767 No Vacancy |
Benjamin Member Username: Benjamin
Post Number: 121 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 216.75.191.126
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 10:19 am: | |
This is the most amazing thing I've seen in some time. Congradulations are due all round. Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2377 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 4:07 pm: | |
I cannot find any listing for David Wilkes or his company in my 1935 and 1940 city directories. There is no 5338 Cass either since it would be on the block where the Detroit Public Library is. Here are the locations of Standard Oil service stations in 1935, the closest year to 1942 for which I have listings. I started mapping them, but ran out of steam when I hit Grand River. I have to find a more efficient way to narrow down the list: 1452 Alexandrine @ Trumbull 700 Beard @ W Fort 2605 Boston @ Linwood 2261 Brewster @ Gratiot 9201 Broadstreet @ Joy 580 E Canfield @ St Antoine 400 Canton @ E Jefferson 1901 Cavalry @ Vernor Hwy 2300 Central @ Vernor Hwy 10501 Charlevoix @ St Clair 1545 Clay @ Hartwick 2005 Clifford @ Adams 2760 E Congress @ Jos Campau 11303 Dequinder @ Caniff (Ham) 3850 Dix ??? 3741 Dunn ??? 1881 E Grand Blvd @ Elmwood 3605 Ellery @ Mack 2580 Elmhurst @ Linwood 7609 Epworth @ Tireman 2026 E Ferry @ St Aubin 6001 W Fort @ Cavalry 1000 14th Street @ W Lafayette 7626 14th Street @ LaSalle Gardens 3705 Fullerton @ Dexter 6300 Fullerton @ Livernois 2665 Grand River @ 5th Street 3741 Grand River @ Magnolia 4280 Grand River @ Vermont 5210 Grand River @ Linwood 6301 Grand River @ Taft 7650 Grand River @ Hogarth 9580 Grand River @ Belleterre 14401 Grand River @ Schoolcraft 21511 Grand River @ McNichols 6900 Gratiot 8888 Gratiot 10439 Gratiot 840 S Green 8601 Hamilton 11305 Hamilton 15850 Hamilton (HP) 17051 Hamilton (HP) 5809 Helen 1557 Holden 3701 Humphrey 4701 Ivanhoe 2134 E Jefferson 8601 E Jefferson 10101 E Jefferson 10700 E Jefferson 11731 E Jefferson 12883 E Jefferson 500 W Jefferson 5110 John R 5901 John R 7635 John R 12591 John R (HP) 8547 Jos Campau 11469 Jos Campau (Ham) 8100 Kercheval 10850 Kercheval 15301 Kercheval (GP) 900 W Lafayette 8017 Linwood 15024 Linwood 3101 Mack 7736 Mack 10960 Mack 4700 Maxwell 330 McDougall 5101 E McNichols 7303 Melrose 7715 Miller 16960 Monica 9861 Oakland 250 Parkhurst 3705 Pennsylvania 1000 Philip 501 Piper 8505 Quincy 2901 Russell 8851 Russell 407 St Antoine 10003 Schoolcraft 700 Scotten 3515 2nd Blvd 4410 2nd Blvd 6431 2nd Blvd 9050 2nd Blvd 6560 Stanton 400 Stimson 2610 Taylor 6414 3rd Ave 8451 3rd Ave 12311 3rd Ave (HP) 750 Trumbull 7541 12th Street 8854 12th Street 11301 12th Street 5803 25th Street 1361 E Warren 901 W Warren 1900 W Warren 829 W Grand Blvd 8240 Wildmere 9490 Woodside 12005 Woodward 16383 Woodward (HP) 19854 Woodward 14508 Wyoming |
Leob Member Username: Leob
Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.192.32.249
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 4:37 pm: | |
Note that the service station, if not addressed on a intersecting street, it may have address on your street ending in an even number as opposed to 3729. Also, note the shadows in some shots. Dependent on the season you may be able to determine of this was an East/West street or not. My best guess is an E/West street considering the baby buggy shadows inline w/ the sidewalk. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3040 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 192.220.139.6
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 4:49 pm: | |
Your Standard Station is either Fullerton/Dexter or lower number on Linwood. Even address numbers are on Eastside of Northbound streets on the Westside of Detroit. jjaba, a very interesting thread. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2378 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 5:07 pm: | |
If the street runs east-west, then if the apartment is on the west side of town, it would be on the south side of the street, and if it's on the east side, then it would be on the north side of the street. If it's a N/S street, then it would be on the west side of the street. In the 2nd & 3rd pictures, the sun appears to be behind the building as if it were on the south side of an E/W street, placing it on the west side of town. I checked the possibility of Fullerton; no 3729. As Leob pointed out, the Standard station would have an even address IF its address is on the same street and not on the intersecting street. Sarge, you need to blow up the pictures so we can see what the signs say beyond the gas station. If you want to email me with your last name, I can look in my directory to see if they are listed. Not a good chance with tennants though. kc8ttv at comacast . net |
Velma Member Username: Velma
Post Number: 2809 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.78.185.190
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 5:16 pm: | |
Mike M, do you have a listing for Frank, Stanley or Lucille Kowalczyk or Coval? Or a listing for anyone with the last name Jolls? Thanks! |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2379 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 5:27 pm: | |
Oh Boy! I have seven Franks & seven Stanleys, no Lucilles. Can you narrow it down by east side, west side, or occupation? And I have six Covals...is the first name Lucille? She would not be listed unless she were living by herself. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3041 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 192.220.139.6
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 5:28 pm: | |
jjaba's parents are listed in 1935 and 1940 directories. But jjaba won't threadjack unless you want it. Look up Irving and Florence Panitch. jjaba |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2380 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 5:31 pm: | |
jjaba, I know where your parent lived...but I can't turn this into a geneaology thread, not until we find Sarge's relatives. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3043 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 192.220.139.6
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 5:34 pm: | |
10-4. Like jjaba said, no threadjacking. MikeM, thanks for the book. Thanks for the props about 3,000 posts. jjaba on the Westside. |
Quickdrawmcgraw Member Username: Quickdrawmcgraw
Post Number: 41 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 63.77.247.130
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 5:38 pm: | |
why do i get the feeling it is somewhere like Dexter/Davison? The flat looks familiar. |
Velma Member Username: Velma
Post Number: 2810 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.78.185.190
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 6:10 pm: | |
Mike M., east side, possibly Bluehill? Lucille might have lived by herself back then since she never married. They all worked for Chrysler. Any Jolls in there? This is SO cool! |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2381 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 6:32 pm: | |
Frank Kowalczyks: 1. 11744 Kilbourne (wife Anna) 2. renting 4091 32nd 3. renting 7363 Kern, autoworker 4. 8339 Maxwell (wife Anastasia), autoworker 5. renting 3188 Belmont, Hamtramck 6. 8889 Copland (wife Katie), laborer 7. 8637 Pulaski, laborer Stans: 1. renting 8889 Copland (see #6 above) 2. 2121 vinewood (wife Mary) 3. 11668 Nagel, Hamtramck (wife Frances) 4. renting 3576 Piquette, body finisher 5. 7228 Wykes (wife Anna), machine operator 6. 2639 Farnsworth (wife Wanda), metalworker 7. renting 5776 Cabot, sheetmetal worker Covals: 1. Albert, renting 6451 Frontenac, jail guard 2. Dorothy, renting 6212 Frontenac 3. Frank (wife Cathy), 6212 Frontenac, inspector 4. Harry, renting 6216 Frontenac, autoworker 5. John (wife Anna), renting 4203 Lincoln, laborer 6. Kelly, renting 6451 Frontenac, factory worker Bluehill had only 15 homes on it, none with residents by those names. -all as of 1940. |
Velma Member Username: Velma
Post Number: 2811 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.47.74.109
| Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 7:10 pm: | |
MikeM, you found em! Frank and Cathy Coval were my great grands and Harry and Dorothy were two of their kids. I'll hafta go check out the addresses. Thanks so much and sorry for the thread-jack. There really should be an "Ask MikeM." thread. |
Bongman Member Username: Bongman
Post Number: 926 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 198.111.56.128
| Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 9:24 am: | |
6900 Gratiot 8888 Gratiot 10439 Gratiot ------------------------------ ------- One of these Standard stations was owned by my Uncle, post WW II. It sat at the now vacant triangled shaped property which still exists, just South of Grand Blvd on Gratiot, cross street is Forest, which matches one of the areas on your highlighted map. Last name of Therrien. (Message edited by Bong-Man on February 07, 2006) |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 181 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 10:49 am: | |
Sure looks like a Calvert Street-type building near Linwood/Dexter. Hasn't anybody been down there lately to scope it out? Wonder if that large apartment building a block down from the gas station exists? It's fairly distinctive. My last recollection of that neighborhood eight years ago was that there were numerous vacant lots west of Linwood, though. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3044 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 2:01 pm: | |
Livernoisyard, I'm pulling for the Westside. jjaba knows it looks "very Westside". And yes, MikeM is a very skilled and dedicated researcher on this website. He has contributed all over the place to us. Not only are we dealing with vacant lots, but also a lot of land dedicated to freeways. jjaba's Pure Gas Station on the southside of W. Davison is gone. It is I-96 through there. jjaba's Greek joint greasy spoon met a similar fate. jjaba can't get his car filled or get a bottle of coffee double-double anymore. jjaba, old Westsider. |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 2445 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12
| Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 2:07 pm: | |
MikeM, you seem pretty good at researching, is that maybe a part of your profession? I may have need for your expertise... email me detroitstylin2000 at yahoo.com |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2382 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 2:22 pm: | |
Just a hobby D_Stylin, although I probably should be an archivist or reference librarian. Hey Bongman, the Therriens were representin' on Commonwealth and Steel streets back in 1940, but I see a Robert, filling station owner, on 1444 Clairmount, apt, A-1. The station he owned was at 2602 Park Avenue, near the corner of Sibley, but no brand is listed. 6900 Gratiot is the one at the corner of E Forest. Maybe he bought that one after the war? I agree the building in question has that west side look to it. The Standard stations on Fullerton and Humphrey are at the corner of Dexter, but with their odd number addresses, they would be on the same side of the street as the flat. However, the building next door to the flat looks like a gas station too; maybe they expanded across the street? I thought the station at Mack and Fairview might be a possibility, but the opposite side of the street was Southeastern's Mack Field. I would start by driving along Dexter, looking at the first few buildings to the west on each cross street. |
Bongman Member Username: Bongman
Post Number: 928 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 198.111.56.128
| Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 2:41 pm: | |
6900 Gratiot is the one at the corner of E Forest. Maybe he bought that one after the war? ------------------------------ -------------- Yep...He served in the Navy and bought it soon after. Strange how Forest cuts through there. You can't make a left off of Gratiot onto the Blvd, so most folks turned on Forest to go East on the Blvd. Forest can't be longer than a couple hundred feet there. Doesn't even look like a station would fit when you drive by today. Thanks ! |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 2454 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12
| Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 3:01 pm: | |
BTW MikeM...I am going to need information on the intersection of greenfield and Oranglelawn circa 1971 on some locations there for this book that I am working on as well... |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 3:03 pm: | |
Note that the building - second from Dexter on Calvert - appears to be that apartment building behind the stores. The gas station would have been on the lower left corner. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 07, 2006) |
Leob Member Username: Leob
Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.192.32.249
| Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 9:47 am: | |
Well Sarge, After all this research, have you bothered to drive by and confirm the location ? |
Gbmp
Member Username: Gbmp
Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.40.103.223
| Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 8:11 pm: | |
Great detective work Mikem! Very enjoyable thread. Maybe they should hire you to find bin Laden. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3074 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 9:42 pm: | |
MikeM found Saddam in that hole. He could find ben Laden in 30 minutes. But Bush already has him. He's the October surprize before the next election. jjaba. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2398 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 9:52 pm: | |
A few of my posts were lost in the server transfer, but I said something to the effect that the Dexter corners with gas stations were either on the same side of the street (odd number addresses) or the side street didn't have a 3729 address. Still, I'd drive south on Dexter from Oakman to W Grand Boulevard, looking at the first few homes on the south side of each cross street to the west of Dexter. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3077 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 1:38 am: | |
Some MikeM confirms jjaba's spotting of the bldg. being Dexter Avenue, and confirmation of the Standard Station on Dexter too. What does jjaba win? He spotted it a week ago. Good work, Mike M. jjaba, at the window on the Dexter Bus. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 1:53 am: | |
So where exactly is/was the flat? The Dexter landscape has considerably altered since 1942. It appeared that the side street for the flat continued directly to the other side of the commercial street without a jog, which is typical of many intersections in Detroit. That would seem to rule out some of those gas stations on jogged corners. |
623kraw
Member Username: 623kraw
Post Number: 772 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 7:45 am: | |
Jjaba knows the west side - but is it on Calvert? I thought Calvert ended at Dexter? I'd have guessed Collingwood, Lawrence or Burlingame. (Webb?) Who knows? |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 8:48 am: | |
Calvert crosses Dexter in a straight manner as shown in the Google Earth graphic posted a few posts back. It appears as if the residential street in the old photos crosses the arterial street as a straight (no jog) street, as evidenced by trees in the distance. I drove up and down Dexter via Google Earth and looked for any commercial or apartment structures east of Dexter that might have matched any in the photos. However, Dexter's commercial building stock has been decimated in much the same manner as Linwood, Harper, Van Dyke, ad nauseum... |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3081 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 6:32 pm: | |
Livernoisyard, you are absolutely correct, Ad Nauseum Avenue begins East of Woodward. (LOL) 623kraw should look at any of the those streets mentioned. The onliest problem we have is the 75 yrs. of gross neglect in Dexter neighborhood. Even jjaba doesn't recognize the place today and he walked that street daily, rode the Dexter bus, and the United Hebrew Schools buses its entire length for many yrs. His Hebrew School and the B'Nai Moshe' Synagogue are there but his Minor Key Jazz Club is a vacant lot. The same with his many delicatessens and Jewish groceries. jjaba, Dexter Blvd. Bar Mitzvah Bukkor. |
Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 6:39 pm: | |
Leob, I would drive there today if it weren't for the fact that it is a more than 1300 mile drive. Maybe next time I am in town. Thanks everyone for their efforts and comments on this thread! |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3083 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 9:38 pm: | |
The Forum has rallied for Sarge. Time is unlimited but when you do find out, free Vernors at the Forum Social Club for us. Sarge, we'll look for ya. jjaba, trying on my first tallis at a Dexter Ave. Jewish bookstore. |
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 915 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.142.86.133
| Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 1:34 am: | |
I, sadly, doubt that stuff is still there today. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 2:57 am: | |
What? No free Vernor's? |
623kraw
Member Username: 623kraw
Post Number: 773 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200
| Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 4:44 am: | |
My bad - Calvert ends right after Dexter - if you drive west, it turns into a one-way coming at you at Dexter. The west side isn't as prarie-like as the east side, it could still be there. |
623kraw
Member Username: 623kraw
Post Number: 774 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200
| Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 5:03 am: | |
Here's a possibility:
|
623kraw
Member Username: 623kraw
Post Number: 776 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200
| Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 3:09 am: | |
Drove by address on Humphrey - if it was there it ain't there no more... |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 5:42 am: | |
(1) Has anyone made an exhaustive check on all 3729s in the city/county records? Even a (probable) vacant lot has a number. (2) It appears to have been located one (probable) or two lots away from an alley. (3) If on the West side, the arterial business street would have split the 3600 and 3700 blocks - Dexter, probably. (4) Viewing the trees in the distance, the residential street would have continued across the arterial without a jog (or one that would have been very, very small). This property was obviously not new in 1942, as evidenced by the need of tuck-pointing. Any structure remaining after another 64 years on that commercial street would surely be almost unrecognizable today. Most of the residential 2-family flats in the Calvert neighborhood still exist, though. Also, some trees were somewhat tall then, indicating that the structure dates back to near 1910 - 1920 or so. Some trees appear to be young, though. |
Fury13
Member Username: Fury13
Post Number: 907 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204
| Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 7:04 am: | |
The building seems to be faced in the cream-colored brick that was popular from about the early '20s to the early '30s. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 7:29 am: | |
I know. My hometown - Milwaukee - was long known as the "Cream City" because of this type of brick made from Milwaukee's clay. Much of those bricks were exported due to its popularity and were used in some Art-Deco structures dating from that era. BTW, my home lies upon a former Springwells brickyard. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 16, 2006) |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2404 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 1:58 am: | |
I drove Dexter the other day but didn't have much luck finding this place. From what I remember, it would not be north of Monterey because the flats on those streets either had rounded arches over the front porch, or they were single family homes. Everything along Dexter south of Joy is residential. That leaves a dozen or so streets in-between. Going north from Joy, the following streets have/had a 3729 residence according to my directory: Longfellow Chicago Boston Calvert Burlingame Tuxedo Elmhurst Duane Richton It looks as though this flat is the first residence west of Dexter, with possibly a service station of some sort occupying the southwest corner: ...as well as the northwest corner. 3729 is the first odd-numbered address west of Dexter on the following streets: Chicago Tuxedo Elmhurst On the other streets, it's the second or third residence from the corner. First possibility: The west side of Dexter at Chicago has a "Chicago-Dexter Service Inc filling station" on the SW corner, and a "Sid's Super Service filling station" on the NW corner. Assuming we're looking northeast, across Dexter, north of Chicago is the Metropolitan Bar, Ruskin Pharmacy, Ming Moy Laundry, Standard Food Market, etc. Can't tell from the picture what the businesses are across Dexter, but it seems like these could fit the bill. Chicago Blvd on the east side of Dexter has several apartment buildings. The closest to Dexter, on the north side of Chicago, is two stories with 8 apartments. The next one east has 4 floors with 80 apartments. Maybe these are the buildings in view: Finally, 3729 Chicago has 10 residents listed there, whereas the other 3729s only have one or two. Second possibility: The SW corner of Dexter and Elmhurst has a "Miller Service Station", and the NW corner is occupied by the "Dexter Auto Wash". I shouldn't claim that these are on the corners - they are just the first or last odd-numbered addresses on Dexter before/after the intersection. Some stretches of Dexter have no addresses between cross streets. Across Dexter, north of Elmhurst is Schechter Bros Meats, Margolis Dry goods, Star Bakery (with two residents upstairs), Mrs Levine Rose Groceries, etc. The first address on the north side of Elmhurst, east of Dexter, is the Elm-Dex Apartment; three floors, 16 apartments. 3729 Elmhurst is the first residence west of Dexter, but only two residents are listed. Third possibility: 3729 Tuxedo is the first residence west of Dexter, but with only two residents listed. Across the street are flats or homes, no businesses and the corners of Dexter and Tuxedo are listed as "vacant" and the "King Fong Cafe", no service stations. Across Dexter is a filling station and two vacant businesses. Tuxedo on the east side of Dexter is all single family homes, no apartment buildings. I never saw any apartment building on the east side of Dexter with a roof line that matches the one in the pictures, however there are a LOT of empty lots on Dexter and the side streets. I don't know why I don't have a Standard Service station listed that fits these locations, except that maybe a station changed brands. Also, my 1940 directory doesn't have any Standard stations listed because they are all under the names of the owners instead. Maybe Sid's was a Standard? |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3095 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:31 pm: | |
The key to all of this is, is an incredible 50 years of urban disinvestment and an urban riot in 1967. MikeM is literally looking for a needle in a hay stack. Many props to him. Thanks for the reminder of all those Jewish stores and residences. This was really our Rue de la Peyos back then. (Peyos being uncut long side locks worn by ultra orthodox Jews.) Livernoisyard knows that FL Wright's Prairie Houses in Milwaukee are built of that cream colored brick and are so fine. Other period architects also used it. MikeM, please note that Dexter Blvd. was widened in the 1950s, and maybe places were torn down because of that also. Formerly, it was a narrow single track lane compared to the megastreet now. jjaba, Dexter Blvd. Bar Mitzvah Bukkor. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 82 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:45 pm: | |
Which parts of Dexter were done in by the riots? I suppose much of its commercial properties were looted, vandalized, and torched out of existence. It probably was a coincidence that Milwaukee had its race riot the very same night/morning as Detroit's. However, the rapid action from the city police and sheriff's department got it under control. Still, the National Guard was installed for a week. Maybe if Detroit had an effective police department back then and now, it wouldn't be in anywhere near its present state. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3106 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 7:41 pm: | |
Riots were all over that part of the Westside of Detroit. jjaba, Westside Yeshiva Bukkor. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2407 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:44 pm: | |
I drove by again today. The Chicago-Dextr intersection is pretty barren. 3729 W Chicago now is the home of newly built Salvation Army center. No flats, no gas stations, no apartment buildings near the corner. Thanks jjaba for the tip on the street widening. I thought the street in the old pictures looked a bit narrow. I see that Chicago made a little jog as it crossed Dexter. In the old photos above, it looks as if the cars are rounding the corner to the right, instead of making a sharp turn or driving straight through: Although, maybe they're just pulling into the station at the corner. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:59 pm: | |
Where did Calvert and other streets go to the west that crossed Dexter back then in 1942? Also, nothing was mentioned about the traffic light visible in two of the photos. Back in 1942, traffic lights were probably much less frequent than today. So, it would tend to be an intersection of an arterial and a feeder street or maybe two narrow arterials. Calvert east of Linwood had bus traffic, as I remember. Actually, that route had articulated buses eight years ago. I really do not know those bus routes as I never had any reason to go on them in this 'hood. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2409 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 9:11 pm: | |
The problem with Calvert is that there is a large, old home on the corner where the Standard Service station is, and the building across Dexter doesn't match the old photos:
|
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 98 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 9:27 pm: | |
Now that I have boots on the ground by viewing the Calvert intersection, it's easy to rule it out. The commercial buildings also are fairly old and nonconforming with the photos. If it were Calvert, the flat would be gone - a vacant lot. So now, there's still hope that it might exist. Who knows where the traffic lights were in 1942? Somebody in the city's electric system should know or some engineering department must have these data. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 17, 2006) |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2412 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 10:00 pm: | |
I thought Collingwood was a sure thing when I saw this old gas station and the apartment across the street, but it doesn't line up, and the aprtment roof line doesn't match. Plus, there was no 3729 Collingwood, and there is a church on the corner to the right: I thought maybe Monterey but...no, like the others, there wasn't a 3729, or what was on the corner doesn't match, or what's across Dexter doesn't match, etc.: It's one of those three I listed or it's in another part of town. It's been fun though! |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 99 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:04 am: | |
I'm leaning toward a possible 3729 Boston: (1) From Google-Earth, I see crosswalk lines for a traffic light. So that confirms a traffic signal at Dexter & Boston. (2) There's a wide gas-station type of driveway present across the street. (muchos vacant lots - NW corner) (3) That large apartment building appears further east than I initially thought. There a series of vacant lots across the alley (8 lots wide of which 4 probably contained the apartment). (4) A bonus. There's a large flat or apartment where 3729 Boston might be still standing. (5) The garage across the alley could have been on the large vacant area on the SW corner. (6) Another resource would be the EPA records for the MI equivalent of WI's LUST law (Leaking Underground Storage Tanks). All gas stations need gas tanks underground. Their removal has to be verified. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 18, 2006) |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2413 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:35 am: | |
The problem I had with Boston was that 3729 was the second residence west of Dexter, and across Dexter is a massive building, the Dexter Recreation Center at the time, a four or five story building which, though it would be off to the right in these photos, would tower over the top of the building in the very first photo in this thread. Look at the shadow it casts: However, there was a gas station on the NW corner: a Puritan Station. On the SW corner, was a beer garden bar, and the east side of Dexter, between Boston and Glynn Ct were: a Hi-Speed Gas Station, a Turner-Brooks floor covering store, Joseph Braverman meats, and Epstein Baking Co. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 100 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:54 am: | |
The buildings east on Dexter both sides of Boston seem obviously more modern than 64 years old. Another thought I had was that there might have been two residental buildings in those photos. One seemed to have possibly more steps to the front entry than the other. One seemed almost at grade. I kept going back and forth and am still in doubt if there were two or one. If there were two and if it were Boston, then it's history - a vacant lot. Considering a time span of 64 years in a troubled neighborhood and 39 years since the riots, I wouldn't expect much to be intact. Didn't the riot take out some 2000 buildings itself? If it were on the East Side, then there would have to be an arterial between the 3600 and 3700 block, as here. That could be the case, but the odds are much less than 50-50 for that to occur. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 18, 2006) |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3107 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:59 am: | |
Pure Gas or Puritan Gas? jjaba remembers Pure Stations. There was one on W. Davison near Northlawn or so. Livernoisyard and MikeM are kick asses. jjaba is impressed with their research and travels. The streetscapes photographed are tragic examples of riot, disinvestment, abandonment, and urban neglect. jjaba has vivid memories of how crowded and vibrant this neighborhood had been. A narrow street, doubled parking on Sundays when it was really busy. Theaters, bowling alleys, factories, retail of every stripe, Yashevot, Hebrew schools, synagogues, jazz clubs, fine homes, elegant Bronx-style Decoesque apartments, fine dining, beautiful school campuses, fire stations, Fisher YMCA, all on that Dexter Blvd. stretch from W. Grand Blvd. up to Fenkell. jjaba, Dexter Blvd. Westsider. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 101 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 1:18 am: | |
I pumped gas for Pure Oil in M'Waukey as a teenager. Only they called the discount version Wisco 99. At least my old hood in Milwaukee is almost 100% intact, but obviously different after the white flight. In that regard, the two cities are nearly identical. LivernoisYard - no bus rider & near west sider (42nd and Capitol Drive) in the Cream City and suburban pioneer in 1956 to posh Brookfield (157th and Burleigh Place) - high atop the Subcontinental Divide on the Niagran Escarpment - separating the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico watersheds (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 18, 2006) |
Andrew69 Member Username: Andrew69
Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 198.111.39.17
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 1:21 am: | |
Livernoisyard, As far as I can tell there are two steps up to the front porch in every one of the pictures. At first, the fourth picture looked like it has more steps because it is in shadow, but if you look closer there are only two steps as well. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3110 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 1:26 am: | |
Livernoisyard, what's the handle? jjaba loves those ceramic house numbers issued by the City of Milwaukee when uniform street numbers were enacted. What was that year? Portland, Oregon did the same thing in the 1930s. jjaba doesn't think Detroit ever did that. It is very cool. jjaba, Westsider. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 102 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 1:35 am: | |
Before my time, and being as old, yours. A typical 100 block was about 1/8 mile, unlike Detroit where they're about 1/12 mile or less. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 18, 2006) |
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 921 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.142.86.133
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 4:18 am: | |
It is so barren there now. There were so many trees way back when. What the hell happened? That always seems to end up being my question when I see all these old photos. It was once so pretty. It was safe. It was home. Now it looks like the only things and people who are left are those who can't do anything but stay. Its so depressing. How many people had family who once had a great home in the area and its either gone or a pile of rubble? |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3121 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 1:37 pm: | |
Jerome81 tells it like it tis. Maybe Lowell will give us a complete Dexter tour someday. Dexter Blvd. has suffered alot. jjaba, Westsider. |
Gannon
Member Username: Gannon
Post Number: 5551 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 9:39 pm: | |
The Dutch Elm disease alone changed the face of this city. It would be interesting to see a before/after pictography of that phenomenon. There are a ton of before/after analysis we could do here in this town...so many hinge points in our history. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 168 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57
| Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 10:10 pm: | |
Now the Emerald Ash Borer |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 104 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 6:49 am: | |
My neighbor is mostly very elderly maples. When they're gone, the city arbor department plants dirt in its stead. I did some searching elsewhere and there is no numbering outside of Dexter that makes any sense. Maybe some warmer day than the current 5F with -12F wind chills, I'll replace the leaking brakeline and whiz up that way 7 or so miles away by carrier pigeon. Some observations: (1) On account of the photographic evidence that there was a traffic light at the intersection, there will be one today. Such gated intersections, like a temporary tax, never go away. So, expect it to be gated still. (2) The real estate containing the large apartment building is a better keying point than any 64plus-year-old gas stations. Any such apartment in a largely one-or-two-family residential neighborhood should be easy to locate in a city directory in or after 1942. I would gravitate to the 3600 West Boston area. The westerly four of the vacant eight lot-equivalents in that block is the most likely in the Dexteer area, along with those on Chicago also - one block away. There could have been a cluster of apartments there. (3) Address sometimes change. Not that rare, such as when two abutting lots coalesce - common throughout Detroit's prairies. (4) Relatively expensive cream-colored bricks suggest an upscale neighborhood. Chicago and Boston to the east of Linwood are the classiest streets nearby. (5) The apartment building on the NE corner has a distinctive design. Clearly, somebody around the sixties in age from that neighborhood should be able to locate it. Also, a city-directory search would help. (6) There was ample room east of Dexter for this apartment and two much larger ones on the north side of the street. Because there are plenty of vacant lots nearby could mean that they could have housed several larger buildings. Apartments are a hard sell (or rent) in a blighted neighborhood with crime problems. More to follow... (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 19, 2006) |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3130 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 5:17 pm: | |
Gannon and Livernoisyard make excellent points. Although the trees are gone, the buildings are gone, jjaba thinks you are in the right neighborhood. jjaba, Old Timey Dexter Blvd. Hebrew Student. |
Derrick Member Username: Derrick
Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 70.245.27.81
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 6:05 pm: | |
2 things i noticed. I didnt see anyone else point out the stop sign here in this photo. Yes i color corrected it to b&w so its easier to see. This sign appears to say the last name of the management company as Wilkes Highlighted: Original: I am not sure if these images are redundent or not. Just trying to help. |
Derrick Member Username: Derrick
Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 70.245.27.81
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 6:43 pm: | |
I did a search... and came up with this. Not sure if it would be the same company but who knows. Google is getting more and more useless everyday https://is.bsasoftware.com/bsa .is/TaxServices/ServiceTaxBill Details.aspx?dp=22020870-1&i=3 &on=Wilkes&appid=1&actSn=10028 &actSna=APPOLINE&unit=155 |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 7:46 pm: | |
Stop "sign" or stop "light?" There's clearly a traffic light at the intersection. This should be slam-dunk easy to eliminate completely or strongly support various locations with the assistance of a city directory from the 1940s. Just key on the 3600 (even side) blocks and look at the highest address for an office or apartment building. If the building directly to the east of it (lower address) was a large apartment building, you've found a strong possibility. If not eliminate it completely and move on. There's only so many such streets in that vicinity. On another matter: I haven't been able to access the 600 dpi CULMA aerials from 1949 (or later) the past two weeks. Does anybody have a URL for them that works? (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 19, 2006) |
Dodgemain Member Username: Dodgemain
Post Number: 85 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.41.191.58
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 9:28 pm: | |
It works, Go to search detroityes and type in CUMA. Its mispelled. Go to the urban prairie site and pick it. |
Aiw
Member Username: Aiw
Post Number: 5304 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.48.209.246
| Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 9:55 pm: | |
Interesting... The link Derrick posted above list an address of 4092 Sturtevant as the home of Wilkes. That address just happens to be a block and a half West of Dexter... Howver a property search shows Mr. Wilkes accquired the property in 1979. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3133 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 1:45 am: | |
As a rule, apartments were near or on corners of blocks in Detroit and single and two-flat homes in the middle of blocks. Often, apartments were on bus lines or arterials. Hope this is of help. Also, remember again that Dexter was widened in the 1950s, after your directory was printed. jjaba. |
623kraw
Member Username: 623kraw
Post Number: 777 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 3:02 am: | |
There is a cream colored brick apartment, 1st address on the left, heading west past Dexter on Boston. I did not see a number on it. It's very similar to the pix above. If anyone goes by there, be careful. That area looks like a war zone. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 114 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 7:01 am: | |
That would be the location for it, plus its attendant war zone. Used to be a fine middle to upper middle-class neighborhood, once. I had a knife pulled on me while in my Honda CRX, though, a few blocks away back in 1998, but I backed up and then drove straight at the ass-hole in a clean getaway. So, be careful. The Google Earth graphic shows it above. Boston Street was the best location for the large apartment on the other side of the alley in the 3600 block - four or so of the vacant eight house-sized lots. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 20, 2006) |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 117 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:04 am: | |
Mikem: "The problem I had with Boston was that 3729 was the second residence west of Dexter..." In Milwaukee back then, flats were often numbered, say, 3729 & 3729A, especially if the same family occupied both. Now they would be something like 3727 & 3729. What you thought might be 3729 could have been one address of the two for the flat, but still in the first building past the alley. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 20, 2006) |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 3:48 pm: | |
Who wants to risk checking this out? Boots on the ground in a combat zone. This might make this: Case closed! 3727 & 3729 W Boston General Property Information Parcel: 14003562. Property Address: 3727 W BOSTON BLVD, 48206 Owner Information: ADAMS, MILTON Unit: 01 3729 W BOSTON BLVD DETROIT, MI 48206-1609 |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3135 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 4:15 pm: | |
Excellent work, fellahs. jjaba declares the problem solved. If 623 Kraw and Livernoisyard post their emails, jjaba will reward them. jjaba, Dexter Blvd. Yeshiva Bukkor. |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1461 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.187.104
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 9:54 pm: | |
I decided to venture out and see if I could find this house based on the clues. Given the address, it is clear to me that this house was just west of Dexter Avenue. The style of housing in that area fits the style in the old pictures. Nowhere else in the city do I believe these pictures could have been taken. 3729 is north of Mack Avenue but all of the homes along Mack are frame houses. The streets that I narrowed my search to included Boston, Rochester, and Chicago. These streets seemed to fit the bill because there was a vacant lot where the gas station would have been. All other streets between Davison and Joy had some structure where the gas station would have been or a structure behind the alley that could not have been the structure next to the alley and apartment in the old photos. For example, someone mentioned that they thought this house could be on Calvert. It couldn't on Calvert because there is an old house standing where the Standard gas station is in the old pictures. This house appears to have been built prior to 1930. Here are some photos with houses with the address 3729 on Boston and Rochester.The first house is on Boston Avenue west of Dexter. It is the first house next to the alley. There is a vacant lot on the corner next to the house and alley and there is a vacant lot where the gas station would be. However, it doesn't appear to be the house in the old pictures. The second house is on Rochester, one street south of Boston. Boston has a traffic light, but Rochester doesn't. Sorry that the shot of the house on Rochester is close up. It looks similar to the old pictures, but it has steps and is a two-family flat. Now on Chicago west of Dexter is some vacant land and a Salvation Army complex. Chicago has a traffic light and has two roads off of Dexter. One before the light, just south, and one at the light. In the old pictures there appears to be a curve in the road. If Chicago kept straight using the southern road, then it would have had to curve slightly north to continue across Dexter. Therefore, I am convinced that the house/apartment in the old pictures must have been on Chicago and was torn down. There is a house currently on Dexter whose roof line appears to be in one of the old pictures. It is possible that this was the house in the old pictures, and if it was then the house was on Chicago. |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1462 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.187.104
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 9:59 pm: | |
Let me try again with those pictures.
|
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1463 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.187.104
| Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:03 pm: | |
Look to the side for a close up of the first house. This house is the one on W. Boston. The picture below is a close up of the house on Rochester. Sorry, I didn't take more shots. |
623kraw
Member Username: 623kraw
Post Number: 778 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 6:15 am: | |
That is the one I saw, but I now realize that IT AIN'T IT...Jjaba, this is EZ - just click the 623kraw for my e-mail, but I ain't won no prize yet. (This is the Forum at its finest and the search will continue; this is freakin' riot!!) Everyone be careful on the west side; it's a jungle over there... |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 8:54 am: | |
I'm still having trouble getting an aerial off the CULMA site. BTW, it is CULMA. I can download the master PDF file correctly, but I cannot open the various files linked from the PDF. I un- and re-installed the most current version of Reader (7.0.7). Still, no linking from the PDF. Has anyone linked onto CULMA lately and opened an aerial? I'm currently running a Registry utility as I post this, just in case. Could this be software or handware firewall-related? The app has the necessary permissions, I think. Never had any CULMA problems until this month over the past two/three years. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 189 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 9:17 am: | |
I just yesterday opened an aerial of a different location from CULMA. No problems. Is there some specific test I can do for you? |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 130 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 9:39 am: | |
Yes. First, tell me what web site you used, in the hope that my links off the PDF are not current. Secondly, key on the property on a NE Dexter corner that matches the office/apartment building. Try to visualize how it would appear in an aerial. It apparently has a distinctive footprint. Try the Boston, Glynn, or Chicago area first. Then go outside this area, if not successful. I have a few other approaches - using the Detroit or Wayne County deeds, etc. When I Google-Earthed the area between Boston to Chicago and Dexter to Linwood, I was impressed at just how plentiful apartments must have been clustered there. It was probably only zoned for apartments. Could have been dozens of them. Anyone living near there around WWII to the 1970s would surely know about this apartment center. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 190 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 9:50 am: | |
http://www.culma.wayne.edu/aer ial_photos/index.htm I believe I'm still using Adobe 7.0. Sorry, something came up. I gotta go. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 191 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:39 am: | |
CULMA 1949 Dexter & Chicago. I dunno. Is this it?
|
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1464 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.187.104
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:47 am: | |
Jimaz, I'd bet good money that this is the location. Notice the curvature of Chicago from the east to the west. Notice how much surface area is on the northwest corner of Dexter and Chicago and the small building. Fits the description of a gas station of that day. Also, notice the roof of the tall building on the northeast corner of Dexter and Chicago. It has the same configuration of the building in the old pictures. Also, remember in one of my earlier posts that there appeared to be a roofline of a house on Dexter behind the apartment. Well, there appears to be several houses in the aerial shot on Dexter. Yes, it appears that there is now compelling evidence that 3729 was on Chicago, west of Dexter. Great job, everyone. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 131 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:50 am: | |
Yep! Exactly. My bad about the CULMA. I switched over to Firefox three weeks ago and the CULMA wouldn't work with it. Went back to IE - for CULMA, only! I just got back after independently taking a couple JPGs of the area in 1949, as you did. Those eight house-sized vacant lots today in the 3600 W Boston Blvd block were already there in 1949. Also, some empty lots were scattered elsewhere in 1949. The population hadn't peaked yet, so, perhaps, this neighborhood was already starting to becoming unglued as far back as then. I'll park some better images of the 1949 views of the Boston-Chicago & Dexter neighborhood on my registered domain: Close view Wider view 1961 view - Still all there, really! Huge trees. Depicts violence! Parental discretion advised. 1981 view - Poof! Now it ain't. Large apartment's roof gone. A bona fide ruin! Lee Plaza nappers probably practiced on this one. Most likely Sarge won't be too happy about his mystery location being converted to a Salvation Army outlet in a war zone... But everything fits: (1) (2) The suspected jog in the street. However, the sidewalk on the north side in the 3600 block is in line with the one in the 3700. There were huge terraces in front of those apartments on Chicago. Eventually the road became curved, probably after the neighborhood tanked. (3) Both gas stations are there. The one on the SW corner has its rear (doors?) right up against the alley next to the flat. (4) The distinctive building on the NE corner. Also, the apartment behind it has four of those peaked roofs - probably as skylights for its stairways. BTW. The large building was already on Boston and Dexter - with its attendant shadow... Curiosity question: What businesses, if any are still on Dexter in those two surviving buildings north of the erstwhile corner apartment? (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 21, 2006) |
Chris_rohn Member Username: Chris_rohn
Post Number: 197 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.73.197.27
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:53 am: | |
this is what's left:
|
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1465 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.187.104
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:01 pm: | |
One other thing that hasn't been mentioned. The building next to the apartment appears to be another gas station. Notice the two bays for cars. At first I thought this might be a garage for a few residents at 3729. However, looking at one of the old photos and then looking at the aerial shots, I am convinced this building was also a gas station. One other clue that it might be a gas station, remember that old gas stations had round, globe-type lights or signs on the top of the gas pumps. There appears to be something that looks like this in one of the old pictures where one of the bay doors is open and you can see through it to the east. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 133 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:22 pm: | |
The other gas station (SW corner) was mentioned near the outset of this riddle. I believe that someone also mentioned its signage - or so that's what I thought. Notice that the back of that garage is right up against the alley, as in the photos. If you look in the 1949 and the current views, you should notice how the concrete? driveway was bent or slanted in the front along Dexter in order to accommodate traffic - probably westbound on Chicago - entering/exiting the station head-on from across the street. The concrete for both stations are probably still there, as in hundreds of Detroit's ruins. (Message edited by livernoisyard on February 22, 2006) |
Eastside Member Username: Eastside
Post Number: 786 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.246.10.58
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:22 pm: | |
...now that was not too difficult, right guys? |
Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 213 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:22 pm: | |
Mystery solved! A big thanks to all of you! |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1466 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.187.104
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:52 pm: | |
Yeah, Mikem had mentioned it earlier. I thought I had read all of the posts but I must have missed that one. BTW, I thought it interesting that the city rerouted Chicago so it would no longer have to curve going east and west, yet they kept the original road or southern road(east of Dexter) open when they could have easily closed it off and you would have had only one street heading on Chicago instead of two. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 192 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:53 pm: | |
I certainly couldn't have found that without Livernoisyard's guidance and everyone else's clues! Mikem is a genius. The CIA does a lot of work like this. Maybe we'll get a contract out of it. We should have regular DetroitYES! Treasure Hunts. That was fun! |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3140 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:53 pm: | |
This work is amazing. jjaba commends all of you in the use of technology. Hoewver, several cheap shots about the neighborhood are filed under "Going Eastside" on jjaba, a Dexter Ave. Bar Mitzvah Bukkor. jjaba doesn't diss the Eastside and trust him, you've got your problems too. Dexter is a result of the "war zone" of 1967 and 50 yrs. of urban disinvestment and suburbanization. While you're there, walk East on Chicago Blvd. to Lawton and look at Congregation Shaarey Zedek, the masterpiece of Albert Kahn, 1932. The polychrome round arch edifice is still intact. Kahn was an industrial architect but knew from experience at Romanesque shuls in Chicago and Cleveland, what good design can yield. HOF Tigers great Hank Greenberg prayed there. His strolls from his car on Lawton made the young girls cry and their mother's hope for a wink from him on their porches. This was Shaarey Zedek's 6th Detroit location. In 1962, they moved to the Bell Rd., Southfield location, visable at 55 MPH on Northwestern Highway. The Kahn firm with Percival Goodman built their 7th location. And great work folks. jjaba, Westside Bar Mitzvah Bukkor on the Dexter Bus. |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1467 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.187.104
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:03 pm: | |
Jjaba, what is a shul? |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 3143 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:12 pm: | |
Royce, "shul or schule" is Yiddish for synagogue. It would still be used today in reference to smaller congregations, not the big reform Temples. So what did one mink say to the other mink at the slaughter house? See you in shul. jjaba, at Hebrew Schhol, Dexter and Lawrence. |
Gannon
Member Username: Gannon
Post Number: 5574 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:20 pm: | |
Please Jimaz, let's keep this wonderful collective resource reserved for doing good. I'm not sure that is what the CIA or NSA or any of the governmental agencies are truly up to. If you are able to prove otherwise, I'm all for it...but I'm not sure that furthering corporate and government profiteering and population control counts as 'good'. This has been one of the most enjoyable threads in some while...are the keepers of the forum history keeping track of this one?! |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1468 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.187.104
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:38 pm: | |
Thanks, Jjaba. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 193 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57
| Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:52 pm: | |
Gannon, I see what you mean and generally agree. I would hope the CIA does some good too but I can't think of anything at the moment Jjaba would sure make a great ambassador though! |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2420 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105
| Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 9:56 pm: | |
I've been on the road since Sunday. Thanks Royce and EZ and everyone else for double checking my work. Occupants of 3729 W Chicago in 1940, Apartment #: 1 Mrs Lois Ashton 2 Robert Bisset 3 Ben Goldstein 4 vacant 5 Charles Dworin 6 David McKean 7 George Bleinweiss 9 Ernest Deutsch 10 William Rottenberg Of course it was rental property, so there may have been a frequent turnover. Sarge, don't bother driving up here...nothing to see. |
Dtown1 Member Username: Dtown1
Post Number: 282 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 8:29 pm: | |
"6900 Gratiot 8888 Gratiot 10439 Gratiot" Wasnt the gas station on Mt. Elliot and Gratiot a standard also, it was a Amoco, just recently over the summer became a Citgo. Also, the Standard at 10439 I believe is the Gunston/Gratiot location, which is still open as an Amoco/BP.
(Message approved by admin) |
Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 911 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 11:47 am: | |
UPDATE Thanks again to all who participated on this thread! Going through some family pictures the other day, I found some higher resolution scans of the pictures initially posted and also a few new ones that might confirm our conclusions on location. One thing I was able to learn was the it wasn't "David Wilkes Management" in charge of the building, it was "David Wilkus Management." A bit of googling taught me that David Wilkus lived at 2435 Boston Boulevard West and that he was president of Temple Beth El and the North End Clinic. He also served as vice-president of the Jewish Welfare Federation and the Allied Jewish Campaign, was a past director of Franklin Hills Country Club, a member of the Great Lakes Country Club and the Masonic Order. http://oss.tbeonline.org/Rfranklinarchive1/exhibit6/e60786a.htm New Pictures: A much better view of the Standard Service station and adjoining buildings and businesses.
Can anyone identify the tall building in the background with the chimney protruding?
Hi-res versions can be viewed here: http://img242.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97340_detroit1942_02_122_256lo.jpg http://img185.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97348_detroit1942_03_122_90lo.jpg http://img164.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97363_detroit1942_04_122_899lo.jpg http://img213.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97379_detroit1942_05_122_336lo.jpg http://img28.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97381_detroit1942_06_122_721lo.jpg http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97387_detroit1942_07_122_905lo.jpg http://img149.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97392_detroit1942_08_122_1034lo.jpg In this picture, you can make out the word drugs on the store across the street from Standard Service: http://img176.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97397_detroit1942_09_122_590lo.jpg http://img245.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97398_detroit1942_10_122_595lo.jpg http://img19.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97497_detroit1942_11_122_716lo.jpg |
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 314 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 12:42 am: | |
I hope this thread is not dead. If that woman holding the babies name is Nora that is my grandmother. I have a picture very simular. Have to find which box my picture is in. Neighborhood looks the same and they did live on or around Dexter. |
Sarge Member Username: Sarge
Post Number: 1087 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2008 - 1:42 pm: | |
Are you referring to the lady on the porch, Rid0617? The woman immediately above with the baby in the stroller was my grandmother and her name was Hilda. The baby in the stroller is my aunt. |