  321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
My friend Goat and I ruined the water rate hike thread and turned it in to an insurance debate. He seems to think that outside forces are conspiring to artifically raise auto, renters, and homeowner insurance rates in Detroit and that redlining is alive and well. What do you think?? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8218 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.53.99.72 |
321Brian, That is what Sharon MacPhail has been hired to figure out. Now will the lobbyist mask it and pay her off? Time will tell. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 28 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
So why do you think insurance rates are higher in the D? Answer the question and stop trying to deflect. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2551 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
Because cars tend to get STOLEN in the burbs and dropped off IN Detroit...along with the way that stolen had historically been reported here. For one thing... | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8220 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.53.99.72 |
Once again I'm not. I already said what I thought...redlining. I'm not an insurance industry expert but it doesn't make sense that Detroit pays more than cities that have higher theft rates. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 915 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
given the fact that I was able to cut my auto insurance by almost half, by dropping state farm, I'd say they're up to something... | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
In response to your first post... Uh,ya this site is a great source for the truth. Perhaps you should consider another source for your hard news. In response to your second post... Report it! Maybe you can get some money back in the class action suit. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 111 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
Because cars tend to get STOLEN in the burbs and dropped off IN Detroit...along with the way that stolen had historically been reported here. For one thing... oh yeah, no cars ever get stolen FROM Detroit huh? What a joke, its the crime people. Detroit is a sorry ass crime ridden city, thats why its so high | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6943 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Brian - Please explain to me how my quote from one insurer is 2500/year and another is over $8k/year. I have also contacted the OFIS requesting data that insurance companies submit for setting their rates. I was told that they don't require that data and essentially just stated that they rubber stamp the rates that are submitted to them. I asked where I could find actuarial data to determine if I am being cheated. I was told that I had to contact the insurance companies directly. I contacted 6 - all refused to release the info. ONe even went so far as to say that they have never seen this info and wouldn't know where to get it. Add in additional factors. Detroit drivers face higher premiums due to Detroiters driving without insurance. Tell me why arbitrary city lines require that I subsidize their insurance but others in the state do not. There is also a component of insurance that is based upon accidents/claims (of course nobody will supply it in Lansing or at the insurance companies) that result in loss based upon the zip code of the accident. Why should I subsidize accidents by suburbanites that decide to drive home from Ford Field drunk - why should I subsidize accidents that are caused by people not paying attention in the CBD trying to hurry back onto the freeway so they can get home. Add in one more component - location of work. Why is my auto more at risk when it sits in an OC parking lot 50 hours a week and a garage the rest of the time than that of a suburban person that works downtown (where residents suffer high rates) who actually has their car on downtown streets 40 hours per week more than me. The system is flawed, no fault is flawed and the OFIS has 0 oversight over the insurance companies and is nothing more than a rubber stamp. I challenge you to dig up some actuarial data or get some input from OFIS. It won't happen. I spent a lot of time and effort for the insurance companies and OFIS to claim I should get the data from the other office. The state's insurance structure is set up to give a major advantage to the suburbs while forcing Detroiters to subsidize the costs of the uninsured because they live predominately in the city. Just more a case of the poor subsidizing the costs of the poor and the people in the wealthier areas being able to turn the other cheek and not acknowledge the issue. Theft is not the major component of insurance in Detroit. And theft in Detroit no longer ranks in the top 10 nationally (or top 15 I believe) yet our insurance rates are double the next highest country wide. The Michigan system just puts an added burden on Detroit residents and the people on the State reps on the west side and the suburbs will definitely work together to ensure that continues to happen. I have contacted the local news channels and they refuse to touch this issue. I have documented the calls I have made, the little bit of info that I didg up but it is not something they will touch. Your idealism is charming but completely off base. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6944 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Incorrect dumbass. The theft component is not the primary factor for the rates being so high. Also, AAA has estimated that 50% of the auto thefts in Detroit are fraud. I suspect at least half of that is from people that do not live in the city proper. I know people whose cars have been 'stolen' in the city. But then again who cares, its just 'those peoples' rates increasing due to their greed. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3299 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
1. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/18968/21688.html 2. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/18968/18043.html 3. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/50492/50762.html 4. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/50492/51540.html .... | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 30 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
Jt1, Believe me I'm no fan of the no-fault system but you pay higer rates for a reason. Let me try to explain. 1. Different companies charge different rates no matter where you live. I recently switched and saved almost $500 a year. 2. Tell your neighbors to get freakin' car insurance like everyone else. 3. Rates are based on where you live not work. It's not fair but it is insurance so fair doesn't count. 4. I don't believe that there was some backroom meeting with the heads of the insurance companies deciding to gear the rate system towards the suburbs and to screw the city. That is just lazy on your part. 5. You are right theft is becoming less a component of rates. Do you know what is becoming more of a component? Credit scores? Again I don't know why but some how they have linked credit to insurance claims and found a match. How is your credit? How is the credit of most Detroiters? How is everyones' credit these days? Probably not so good. So, ya it sucks and it isn't fair but everyones rates are going to rise because a lot of people are having $$$ problems. 6. I am not an idealist. I just find it hard to believe that groups of people are conspiring against one particular city. I think that is Detroits main problem. Blaming someone else for your problems while not looking to yourself or your community to fix it's own problems. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6945 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.19.17.157 |
Brian - Let me respond to your condescending post. 1. Yes but if the rates are based upon actuarial data how can it differ by 300%-400%. That would be one heck of a statistical anomaly. 2. My neighbors? Can you be a bigger condescending prick. The argument is that using city lines to determine who should cover for the uninsured is non-sense. I insure my car so I should be no more on the hook to cover for uninsured than someone in Troy or Grand Rapids. Supporting this argument shows how biased you are an a general inability to look at this in a rational manner. 3. I agree but you are advocating that insurance companies and the state are acting in a decent manner. 4. Lazy? How so. I have tried every manner possible to get the actuarial data and have had no luck. I have contacted the local papers and media and outlined the attempts I have made to get this information and have gotten no response. How dare you call me lazy in this regard. 5. "How is your credit?" Again you are a completely condescending little prick. My credit scores from the 3 primary credit rating groups range from 770-820. Ease up on your assumptions. Some people in Detroit actually are intelligent and responsible enough to understand the importance of credit and keep our bills in order. 6. You managed to get assumptions and your condescending tone into one sentence. Kudos to you. If you are not an idealist you are foolish. Businesses are in business (I'm not buying insurance as non-profit) to make money, when there is a large customer base with little voice in Lansing do you think that the insurance companies don't see an opportunity. Do you also think that Exxon and other oil companies are working in the best interest of the customer? So how is outrageous insurance for Detroiters a problem of mine. I have near perfect credit, I have no accidents, no points, store my car in a garage, no claims and am paying equivalent rates to a person in the burbs with a drunk driving history. So how am I not looking to myself to fix my problems. I challenge you to try and get the acturial data from insurance companies. I challenge you to find any real data that the OFIS requires insurance companies to submit. I challenge you to get any local media outlet to even listen to you about redlining in Detroit. Maybe you aren't an idealist. That lessens my opinion of you. At least an idealist has is faulting by thinking with their heart. You just seem to be thinking based upon the assumption that the world is fair and everything is dandy. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 31 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
So by sticking up for my opinion I am a 1. condescending prick 2. a completely condescending little prick 3. foolish I do try to think that things are fair. I don't believe that corportaions conspire against certain people. Unless we are talking about casinos. It's 2006 for gods sake! Businesses work in the best interest of their stockholders and their bottom line. Period. I know this. I also know that there are things called laws to keep then honest. Stop. Stop. Hold it right there I know you want to start typing but before you do I also want to say that I know they have strong lobbies and are always trying to get things a little more in their favor. I also know that other consumer advocacy groups have strong lobbies to keep them in check. Checks and Balances baby!! You win some you lose some. I wasn't trying to be any of the above but if you think I am anyway well here goes... I'll tell you how outrageous insurance for Detroiters a problem of your and I'll say it slowly so you understand. YOU LIVE IN DETROIT!!! Insurance rates are high in Detroit because more claims come from people with addresses in Detroit. Now, I have to go because I have a 9 o' clock meeting with The Man tomorrow and we are going to talk about how we can stick it to Detroiters. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6950 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.19.16.86 |
Not for sticking up for your opinion but the tone and the assumptions in your post. You implied a lot of things about Detroiters and about me. That is what I take exception with.
I also work for 'The Man' and I can assure you that your belief in checks and balances and laws keeping them in check is absurd.
re-read your previous post. Do you honestly think that you do not come off as a condescending prick.
Well, that sure makes it all OK then. Kind of contradicts some of your arguments on how everything is fair after I stated the conditions that apply to me. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3305 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
What would DetroitYes be without petty squabbles? I'm starting to miss fighting with old Mellodrama. But, you guys really should have waited for Mills Lane to utter his famous line "Let's get it on!" | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 32 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
You are smarter than I thought. You can pick up a persons tone over the computer. Bravo. Just another example of you looking for something that isn't there. I thought Mills had a stroke or something like that? Miss his show. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6952 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.19.19.104 |
Tone can be in intonation or content. Your tone was very clear. But let's stay on topic. Will you try to get some info from any insurance company or OFIS. Will you contact any of the local media outlets to show them that they system is broken when consumers can not access that data and the state does not require it. Since I am so lazy in my endeavors I ask that you try so you can see how readily available the information is through OFIS or the insurance companies. | ||
Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 68.41.202.23 |
Jt1, have you filed a formal FOIA request with the state? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6954 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.19.17.115 |
I have been told by the director of OFIS that they do not require the actuarial data form the insurance companies. If that is the case an FOIA does no good. I have not pursued that option with the insurance companies as I do not believe that they would be covered under the FOIA and would not have to share the data. Please let me know if I am wrong and I will get out FOIA with the insurance carriers that do business in the state. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
Jt1, It only affects me in that I'm tired of hearing the bitching from people who live in the city. I live in SE O.C. and I think my rates are too high. So, I'll fight my battle and you fight yours. Let the Mayors office or C.C. know about it. No matter what anyone thinks about them if they think someone is after DEtroit they will go after them in a very public way. Like I said I recently changed companies and saved $$ but it is what it is. It's insurance. We all know that once you make a claim your done no matter where you live. I just hate the "someone is out to get us" mentality. If you don't like it move. I won't be living in the city anytime soon because these reasons make it impractical from a financial standpoint for the middle class to move in and maintain their quaility of life. | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1608 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
Another factor: Michigan is the only state that has no limits on personal injury/medical claims. In Michigan, if an 18 year old is injured and becomes paralyzed and lives to be 80, the insurance company picks up the tab. Other states impose limits, say $100,000. Detroit is the largest city in the state, therefore picking up a large portion of the tab. This is not the only reason, but it is a factor. | ||
Fiesty1 Member Username: Fiesty1 Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
Lurker is right. And we all subsidize those people who are catastrophically injured (the insurance companies are only on the hook for a certain amount, and then claims are paid through a state fund, funded through your generous contributions). Regarding rates, mine aren't as bad as I was led to believe they would be when I moved to the City 6 years ago. I'd say comparison shop, but be sure to compare apples to apples. There are huge variations in what types of benefits insurance companies provide (for instance, last I heard AAA did not offer underinsured motorist coverage, which isn't necessary but is something I like to have). | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 208 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.242.215.65 |
321Brian, this has not been my experience. While I do pay very high auto insurance rates, I have been able to maintain a quite comfortable, middle class quality of life in Detroit. I think that wherever I might live would present me with advantages and trade-offs and from my standpoint, considering my needs and wants, Detroit, by far, is the best value. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6959 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Also known as "If I look the other way it's not my problem." Why try to improve the city when I can save a few dollars and criticize the city while claiming that the insurance companies and insurance laws in Michigan are wonderful. I love it when someone that does not live in the city, has not researched the issue, has not made any attempts to get this attention insists everything is perfect. As far as the city checking into it: The city council, mayor and state reps from Detroit have been working on this issue for quite some time. People are not sitting on their hands with regard to this issue but think about how much support they are getting in Lansing. Will the reps from the West side, OC, MC step up to help in the fight when their constituents aren't getting cheated (as badly) | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 756 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.245.69.46 |
Why is insurance more in Detroit? That's what I've been asking for years. The 2 times my car was stolen, it was in the suburbs, the 2 times I've had a 'fender-bender', I was in the suburbs. I have been living in Detroit most of my life and have never had my car 'messed' with.....(oops) except the one time my car got shot up in a drive by!__ but they were not after me!  Nevertheless it ain't fair! super d(motordetroit) | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 92 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.77.166.98 |
Insurance companies have us by the balls, unfortunately. Credit scoring, redlining and unlimited catastrophic claims are all real, and while auto theft rates, uninsured drivers, etc. are most certainly higher in the city, we'll all bask in universal health care before the auto insurance companies and GOPers whose pockets they pad sign off on spreading the cost burden to suburban constituents. No way should a God-fearing family of four from, say, South Lyon or Macomb Twp have to pay a little more to make Detroiters' premiums more affordable when they never visit the city anyway. On the other hand, it's perfectly acceptible that city residents or supporters be asked to help pay for new roads, sewers and water mains when these people move into former corn fields. | ||
Iddude313 Member Username: Iddude313 Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.63.99 |
Lets see. I almost ran over a guy yesterday that was running full speed towards my car @ Grand Blvd.& Kercheval while I was moving @ 30mph. After I screeched to a halt and swerved into the opposite lane to miss him, he cussed me out and kicked in the headlight and bent and scratched my fender. Then he ran across the street and kicked another car too! All these crazies!!!Maybe thats why insurance is so expensive. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 34 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
Jt1, Come on. So I need to move 3 miles south to know what is going on? I never said Michigans' insurance laws are wonderful I just said that I know they have reasons for charging what they charge. Actually I'm saving a few THOUSAND dollars buy not living in the city and that is just in property and income taxes. Maybe your Mayor and his Mom a Detroit Rep. should have went on a fact finding mission to Lansing instead of Africa. What were they looking for again? Another way to waste your money? No, the Westside, OC, and MC reps shouldn't step in and fight for your rights. We elect and pay them to fight for our rights. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6965 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Not asking that they fight our fights but no fight against us in Detroit's attempt at a fair insurance structure. Again - There has been a lot of work by Detroiters on the insurance issues. But it is easier to assume they are sitting on their hands. The bottom line is that it benefits the other areas of the State for the rates to remain at the current structure. If equality and fair rates would result in $1 of annual cost to their constituents the westside, OC, MC reps would fight to the death on it. Now think of the number of reps fighting for Detroiters and the number fighting to keep things how in the current situation. Sure is an easy fight to win isn't it. | ||
Frank_c Member Username: Frank_c Post Number: 438 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
Thank God for public transportation, eh. opps | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 365 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.136.144.196 |
321brian The companies don't have to provide any real data on how they set rates, but you know they're justfied in their rates?. Lord knows no company would ever try to take advantage of something like that. | ||
Michigansheik Member Username: Michigansheik Post Number: 99 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 72.255.20.24 |
what companies offer the best rates in Detroit? | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 762 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Big Tone's street insurance , Warren and 32nd__ $75.00 gets you tabs and insurance papers! super d(motordetroit) | ||
Michigansheik Member Username: Michigansheik Post Number: 100 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 131.156.153.171 |
oh, of course, what was i thinking! seriously though....who has good rates for PLPD and who has good rates for collision? |
