  Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Where did the Jews in Detroit live for the past 200 years? And, what was their migration path? Why is the only cemetery located in Hamtramck a Jewish Cemetery and there has never been a Synagogue located in Hamtramck that I am aware of? Does anyone on this site have a good memory of the merchant shops along 9 Mile Rd. between Coolidge and Greenfield on the south side of the street approximately 1979? Has anyone on this site every attended meetings at Hillel House in Oak Park during the 60s and 70s? Just having Jewish thoughts today. Livedog2  | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1054 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.103 |
Danny will fill you in shortly with the stats on the migration path, including the Asians, African Americans, and Centaurians who followed. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 574 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 209.69.221.253 |
The Lower East Side was a traditionally Jewish neighborhood. Even by the time the neighborhood had become African-American, it was still a street of Jewish-owned shops. The migration path was northwest, to central city, up to Northwest Detroit, and on to the northwest suburbs (Oak Park, etc.) That path is littered with old synagogues and one-time Jewish cultural institutions. | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 222 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226 |
Livedog2, I grew up in the 9 and Coolidge area in the 70's. I vaguely recall a pizza place whose name esacapes me, Hammerstein's drugs, the stage deli, katz's deli (don't remember if this was the exact name but it had a yellow awning), Brodie's children's clothing, and a few others on the south side of 9 mile. Other places at the intersection were Oak Park Lanes, Frank's Nursery, Kiddie Land, Sanders, A & P, Sentry drugs, The Pub, Burger Chef, Merchandise Mart, Charlotte's Web, a pet store whose name I can't recall, Zukin's ribs, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Schwinn Bike Shop, Little Professor Book Shop, a few bakeries and the gas stations on the corners. Waxing nostalgic myself a bit now....... | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3042 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.7.93 |
Did you check out Lowell's Lost Synagogues section of this website? ^ | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5441 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.216.150.127 |
There is a Jewish cemetery at the corner of St. Cyril's & Van Dyke. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2424 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.14 |
jjaba, please step up to the microphone... Also visit my Lost Synagogues of Detroit site. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 982 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
there is a large jewish cemetary in roseville, on the east side of gratiot too | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.40.65.66 |
I believe Boston-Edison (or maybe Palmer woods) used to have some Jewish communities. They mostly moved to Southfield, northwest as previously indicated. Now they've moved west even more. West Bloomfield, Farmington, Franklin, etc | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 447 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.90.206 |
There is a huge scatological grafitti on the wall of the Jewish Cemetary on Van Dyke. I wish some brave soul would go by and paint over it. It seems to be such an affront to the dead who sleep there. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3907 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.20 |
The earlist Jewish communities begin with Rabbi Campau. Who installed a first synagogue in Detroit's lower east side on the corner of Beuabien and E. Congress circa. 1860. The Jews mostly for New York State and most eastern European Nations can to settle area what is called Black Bottom and then up to Paradise Valley along Hastings St. until the 1930s. Then more influx of ethnic Jews mirgate to the Uptown areas East and West of Woooward Ave. installing more synagogues and mom and pop businesses. And the moved quickly to the West Side ( That's where jjaba) grew up and settle along Dexter Ave. By the 1950s the Jewish made their new exodus to the NW Detroit areas from Schoolcraft Ave to 8 Mile Rd and from Palmer Park to Evergreen Rd. By the 1960s most ethnic Jew are fed up of with Detroit and they move to Oak Park, Southfield and Lathrup Village and parts of Berkeley, Huntington Woods and Royal Oak. By the the 1980s Most of the Ethnic Jews have left Oak Park, but the Hasidic Jews stay behind for their neighborhood synagogue stood there and to preserved the Holiday of fast and pray called " Shabbat". By the 1990s most of the Jews, The Democratics and Conservatives had become fully Americanized and they started to move to Farmington Hills, Bloomfield Hills, West Bloomfiled TWP. Commerce TWP. Orchard Lake, Sylan Lake, Keego Harbor, Bloomfield Hills, Parts of Birmingham, And Novi. Today Oakland County has the largest consetration of ethnic Jews. 99% of the Jews are NO LONGER living Detroit. The Downtown Synagogue is Now the LAST SYNAGOGUE in Detroit. And the most of the ethnic Jews will keep on moving all the way up to NW Oakland County valleys. Milford, and Highland TWP. you're next | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1256 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.57 |
See the Detroit area of the list of Jewish Cemeteries in Michigan to see how many there are and where they are located: http://www.jewishgen.org/cemet ery/northamerica/michigan.html | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 628 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Don't forget Dexter - Davison area. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 26 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
It was my understanding that Jews migrated to Highland Park on their migration from Detroit. True? Also, my question about the only cemetery ever located in Hamtramck was a Jewish Cemetery but there never was a Synagogue in Hamtramck. Again, true? Anyone with any info or comments about this I would appreciate hearing it. The reason I was asking about the merchants on 9 Mile Rd. and Greenfield was because I am interested in one of the bakeries on the southside of 9 Mile. The book was right next door, on the westside, of a deli. Maybe the deli was Stages? That bakery is no longer there but someone told me they moved but since I don't know the name of the bakery I can't look them up in their new location. Livedog2 is craving some Jewish Rye  and pasteries from this bakery!  | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2856 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.138.61 |
The Hamtramck synagogue at first stood on the land where Beth Olem cemetery is today. In 1908, the synagogue moved to 2485 Wyandotte Street. This location was used until 1925, when Hamtramck's Jewish residents moved out. | ||
Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 495 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 67.114.23.202 |
I'm suddenly hungry for some kugel. | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 223 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226 |
The only delis at 9 and coolidge in the late 70's were the Stage and the Katz (I believe). Also a coney island immediately after nine on coolidge. (Almost forgot about that one.) I think the bakery may have been called Modern Bakery. Don't recall too much about that either except it was usually older ladies at the counter with Slavic or Yiddish accents..... | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3532 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Star Bakery, Zemans Bakery, Hy Horenstein's Deli, Darbys Restaurant, Lou's Deli (two stores), The Begel, Brothers, Juniors, The Bagel, Esquire, Boeskys, Liebermans, Leon and Lefkovsky, Bread Box, are some of the old names of Detroit food places. Jews first settled in Detroit's lower Eastside near the Detroit River. They moved up through Hastings St., Oakland/Westminster, then crossed Woodward Ave. to 12th, Linwood, Dexter, Clairmont, Boston/Edison, Livernois, North of Grand River up to Fenkell. They also went up Woodward along Palmer Park, Palmer Woods, and up to Woodward Ave. suburbs. Post WWII, they then leapfrogged up to W. Mc Nichols, Wyoming, Livernois, W. Seven Mile, W. Outer Drive, to W. Eight Mile Rd out to about Evergreen. 12th and Clairmont, Dexter-Davison, and Wyoming-Curtis were huge Jewish retail areas. Sinai Hospital was built on W. Outer Drive and Sussex. Major Jewish High schhols were Eastern, Northern, Central, a few yrs. at Mackenzie, Mumford, Ford, then Oak Park, Southfield, N. Farmington, etc. Cass Tech. always had a nice number of Jewish students. A small minority attended Cooley. Jews never really lived in Redford area. At no time ever, was any neighobrhood in Detroit more than 50% Jewish. Jews were always minorities. Same with today. Ultra Orthoxy has grown and is centered in N. Oak Park area along W. 10 mile and Greenfield. Suburban settlement is Oak Park, Southfield, Farmington Hills, W. Bloomfield, Birmingham, Bloomfield Hills, Novi, etc. as Danny describes. There are smaller Jewish settlements in Troy, Royal Oak, Huntington Woods, Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge, and the Grosse Pointes. Pontiac always had a Jewish synagogue and population apart from the Detroit community. Same for Toledo or Ann Arbor. There was a Jewish synagogue and community in the Michigan Avenue-Junction area and a Wyandotte Congregation. As for Beth Olem Cemetery inside the GM-Hamtramck gates now, as with other Jewish cemeteries, they don't always correspond with settlement and housing. Hamtramck and Highland Park had flocks of Jewish retail, factories, and other commerce, but Jews didn't settle there much. HP was more Scots and Hamtramck is the famous Polish community. Suburban Jewish cemeteries are simply on large tracts purchased by burial societies without reference to where people live. Metro Detroit has 100,000 Jews, spread out in a rather large area. Sadly, few live within the City of Detroit anymore. Lowell's synagogue tour has addresses which reflect quite well where Jews prayed since they like to be nearby their synagogues. jjaba, Westside Bar Mitzvah Bukkor (who grew up on Northlawn and Schoolcraft where few Jews lived in the 1940s and 50s. It was St. Brigit's Parish.)He lived Jewish -adjacent to the Dexter enclave. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 27 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Thanks Hamtramck_Steve for the info: "The Hamtramck synagogue at first stood on the land where Beth Olem cemetery is today. In 1908, the synagogue moved to 2485 Wyandotte Street. This location was used until 1925, when Hamtramck's Jewish residents moved out." I assume that 2485 Wyandotte is the Wyandotte St. just west of St. Aubin Ave.? So, the information I had that there never was a Synagogue in Hamtramck is incorrect? Something that bothers me is the fact that GM can make rules that the public can only visit Beth Olem Cemetery twice a year. Just how does that work? Did they set it up that way “because they can”? I wonder if anyone has ever challenged that rule in court? I think I’m going to look into that fact but if anyone out there has any information about this topic I would appreciate hearing about it. Hamtramck_Steve, I’ve got another question about a building on Carpenter St. in Detroit across the river from Hamtramck. But, I’ll have to find the photo of that building and get the address so I can talk, at least, halfway intelligently about it. Dziekuje, Hamtramck_Steve and Sarge | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2857 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.138.61 |
jjaba, when you say "Hamtramck is the famous Polish community", keep in mind the significant correlation between Polish and Jewish. Beth Olem is full of Polish Jews. I suspect that Hamtramck isn't known for its Jews because they moved out so early in the city history, and the area was reduced to concrete by the Poletown plant. I suspect that if we were having this discussion pre-1980, we could find a whole lot of traces of Jewish presence there. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 28 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
What is so interesting about the Catholic and Jewish tradition are the fact that they are so old and steeped in ritual, ceremony, tradition and history that lead to institutions with the focal point being their places of worship. And, this is the crux of the problem in Detroit -- all of the continuity related to ritual, ceremony, tradition and history is not being perpetuated by the current caretakers of the City of Detroit. And, that’s all they are is caretakers because they will be gone one day, too. One example is my visit to St. Albertus Catholic Church recently to attend the services and create a video record of the whole church inside and out. I could not help notice that there was a service going on across the street but instead of creating a focal point for the community by the commitment associated with the building of their own church they were conducting their services in a storefront. A storefront! And, I don’t buy the crap about them being too poor to afford it because the immigrants that built the St. Albertus’ were as poor in their day as the poor of today. Livedog2   | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 29 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Thanks, Jjaba for the wealth of information! Livedog2 | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2858 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.138.61 |
Wyandotte intersects St. Aubin. It's the first street south of Holbrook at Campau (and it's the second street south of Holbrook at St. Aubin! I suppose somebody drank a bit too much the day they laid out the roads.) | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2425 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.14 |
As for Beth Olem, it is closer to the east side Detroit Jewish community and its numerous shuls then to the Caniff / Campau heart of Hamtramck. Of course there was no I-75 dividing that community and devouring the large commmercial street of Hastings and it was all continuous neighborhood. Regarding LiveDog's comment about the cemetery only being open twice a year, on the day I visited I don't think there were any visitors who had family there. Instead the historically curious like me, and as it turned out, Hamtramck Steve were there. I think the last internments were in the 1940's but, even so, I was surprised at the light turnout. The setting is very serene -- a couple of shaded green acres set off by dramatic industrial backdrops dropped amid vacant land inside the GM Poletown plant. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 591 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
bialys. That is all. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2859 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.138.61 |
I would contend, though, that the heart of "Hamtramck" was Holbrook and Campau at about the time of Beth Olem's founding. Although the village boundaries, set in 1901, largely mirrored today's city boundary, it was still very rural and agricultural not far north of Holbrook. None of the buildings along Campau north of Holbrook were constructed yet. The oldest commercial building along Campau is just north of the railroad viaduct on the east side, dating to 1913. While we consider Beth Olem to be on the southern end of Hamtramck today, when it was established in 1908, it was on the northern edge of everything. Pretty trippy to think about how we've grown and sprawled in less than 100 years. It took Detroit 200 years to get from the river to Beth Olem, and less than 100 to get from Beth Olem to far northern Macomb County. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2285 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.234.183.131 |
I remember back a few years ago on this forum there was some discussion about Livonia having a small Jewish community back in the 60's. This came as news to me. Anyone can confirm? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3534 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Hamtramck_steve lives there. He walks the talk. jjaba never heard of Jews living in Hamtramck, but knew of various factories, stores, merchants, and medical people serving this community. Ofcourse, Polish Jews started the Ginsburg Dental School of Polish Extraction and the Alka-seltzer School of Hasidic Jews. Both were located quite close to that Pope Park. Jews emigrated from Poland to Detroit prior to the Holocaust. They would feel comfortable with the language there. jjaba has been to Krakov and Auschwitz-Birkenau. He's be to the Warsaw Ghetto and other Jewish places in Poland. jjaba can only report what he knows. Sorry for the error. His father, alva sholem, worked at 2460 E. Grand Blvd. (Detroit) making envelopes. Later, again near Hamtramck, at Russell and Clay in the same company making envelopes. The E. Grand Blvd. site became a post offce and then fell victim to the GM Poletown plant, and the roadway was widened at the bend at DuBois. On Lowell's synagogue tour, jjaba explains that many synagogues were organized along nationalistic lines, i.e. a Russian Shul, a Hungarian Shul, a Polish Shul, German Shuls, etc. But for however many Protestants and Jews, Detroit really has always been Catholic, atleast until white flight took over. jjaba. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 30 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
The first time I went to Beth Olem Cemetery was in the late 1950s or early 1960s -- I can't remember which decade. They all seem to run together after awhile, anyway. I was a kid of about 14 or 15 years old and a friend of mine had an uncle that was buried there so we rode our bikes over there for a visit. It was quite a hike for us to ride our bikes there but it was well worth it for the experience. I wish I had some photos of that visit but when you're kids you don't think of those things. I was always struck by the fact that you had to know that cemetery was there or you wouldn't find it. The next time I went these was in the early 1970s with my mother and sons and it was quite a challenge getting in there because of all that was going on in that area at the time with all of the Poletown controversy brewing. I hope to get there again this year with any luck, the creek doesn’t rise and the Lord willing! Livedog2 | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1005 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 66.2.149.121 |
I did some digging around in the old maps, and finally found Beth Olem Cemetery. First a general map from the 1930s, with the cemetery marked in green, on Smith near Grace, just west of Jos. Campau. The dashed orange line is the Hamtramack boundary.  The 1915 Sanborn map, eight foot tall bricks walls surrounding the cemetery.  (Message edited by Hornwrecker on April 03, 2006) | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 31 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Bravo, Hornwrecker!  I'd like to know this Sandborn guy. He sure got around. Livedog2 | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 174 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.208.234.52 |
Rustic--that Livonia Jewish enclave was in northeast Livonia, specifically the Hearthstone sub South of 8 mile between grand river and middlebelt (the only traffic light between GR and Middlebelt is the main sub entrance). We (goyeshers)moved to that sub in 1969, from 7/lahser. Many Jewish families in that sub and the sub across the ravine to the east, closer to 7 mile and Inkster. We al went to Clarenceville schools. There still is a shul on 7 mile between middlebelt and merriman. Many of those families moved to West Bloomfield by the late 70s. | ||
Arc312 Member Username: Arc312 Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 35.11.161.238 |
I was born in 1986, lived with in Bloomfield TWP. Parents divorced in 1989, moved with Mother to Livonia to the Sunset Hills Sub @ the southwest corner of 7/Middlebelt. The Sub was built in 1958, large middle class homes for the time (1950 sq ft, 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms). The Sub, at the beginning, was roughly 25% Jewish, there was even a mezuzah mark on the doorframe. Now, this Sub is still middle class, not at all Jewish, and is part of the Livonia Public School System. It is also not so far from the Adat Shalom and Beth El (My grandparents are buried here) Cemeteries, located on 6 mile between Inkster and Middlebelt. Does anyone know if this was a part of Clarenceville Schools also, and why the Jewish expansion stopped in Livonia? Was the Oak Park population higher/more affluent than the Livonia part, and is that why Jews abandoned Livonia in the 1960's? Alternatively, were there tensions b/t the Jews and other local communities? Also, can a Jew, who knows more than myself, answer why the location of cemeteries does not particularly have to be in the neighborhood of the Jewish Community? Is it because, relatively, the afterlife isn’t very important? (Message edited by arc312 on April 04, 2006) | ||
Steve Member Username: Steve Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 85.64.196.131 |
Livedog: The bakery you're thinking of may have been Mertz, which was next door to the Little Professor Bookstore on 9 Mile and Coolidge. Arc: No need for cemeteries to be near Jewish communities because Jews don't visit cemeteries on the Sabbath, the day they are forbidden to ride. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2428 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.14 |
There is a synagogue in the middle of Livonia. I believe it is on Five Mile near Merriman. I can't recall the name right now. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2429 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.14 |
^ Scratch that. It is Congregation Beit Kodesh which is on 7 mile just west of Merriman. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 175 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.234 |
Arc312, the Clarenceville school district boundries are hard to describe, they meander all over the map, between five cities/townships and two counties. The neighborhood you describe near Adat shalom would not be in the district, it is too far south. | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 16 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
I had Jewish neighbors on Patton in Redford. There was a temple on 7 Mile, somewhere between Evergreen and Lahser, I think. Was probably the first real experience of racism I encountered in my young life then. When they moved in someone egged their house. Most of the neighbours were apalled by the act but some were strangely quiet. I do know a couple young boys, probably middle school age, ended up cleaning it off of their house. One of the girls ended up a good friend. The son went out to Hollywood after college and is now an editor. I see his name in credits often on the movie screen. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 177 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.234 |
Pamequus, that temple was on the east side of evergreen, just north of 7 mile. We went to the methodist church a block up from there. I went with my mom to watch her vote in the 1964 election at that temple. (Message edited by 56packman on April 04, 2006) | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 17 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
56 packman I wasn't too far off  Not bad for 30 years ago. Have to say something off thread, but at least within the general topic. I have learned more about Detroit history than I ever knew while living there since I came to this site. It's a never ending history lesson, along with some wonderful humor, diverse opinions and life styles. Thanks for letting me be a part of it. | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 224 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226 |
Steve, What year was the Mertz bakery next to Little Professor? My recollection (which could very well be flawed)is that as of 1979, Sentry Drugs was to the left of LP and there was a restaurant on the right whose name eludes me but which had red curtains and family dining............. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2286 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Thanks for the info re Livonia. I guess that explains that great Bagel shop on 7 and middlebelt in the 70's, lol! It is interesting how such a nominally white bread town like Livonia is actually quite diverse itself even in it's short history. Only in Detroit would the "whitest" small city in America happen to also contain the largest community of a certain African American religous group (Egyptian Coptic Christians) outside of the motherland herself! Re Jews in Detroit, another thing to remember is that many owners of small shops preferred to live nearby even if the immediate neighborhood was not their ethnic enclave. I recall in my neighborhood growing up having three Syrian families that owned nearby party stores/grocery stores, a Chinese family that owned a restaurant and an Italian family that owned a vegetable truck (remember those?). These were in neighborhoods that were either predominantely Irish-fillintheblank Catholic mixed with Black protestant or a Black and White Protestant latte. I'll bet that there were Jewish families scattered all over Detroit doing the same (perhaps a generation or so earlier but ...). I'm thinking of many of the small neighborhood dept stores and clothing stores like in Brightmoor, Warrendale or Warren near Livernois which were Jewish owned but also many of the Mom and Pop retail shops up and down virtually every commercial strip back in the olden days. This was BEFORE the Koreans, BEFORE the Chaldeans, BEFORE the muslim "Arabs" and probably even BEFORE even the christian "Syrians" and "Greeks". For a few years in the late 70s in the wake of white flight evacuation of much of the GR/fenkell area my parents immediate neighbors were an immigrant muslim "Arab" family on one side (party store owners) and a young (kinda hippie academic) Jewish family (probably second generation Americans) on the other side. Bracketting these up and down the block were let's see ... an elderly widow (who was a Greek immigrant, btw), and a middle aged African American family (Protestant), an older white (Protestant) family and a young mixed black (protestant) and Nigerian immigrant (I assume Muslim based on his name) family. This was on a miscallaneous block in one a them sedate leafy west side Detroit neighborhoods. Yay Detroit! | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1006 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 216.203.223.74 |
I think I located where in the vast Poletown demesne, the Beth Olem Cemetery is located.  Close-up of the suspected cemetery.  Can anyone confirm if this is actually the correct location? | ||
Steve Member Username: Steve Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 80.178.32.242 |
Sarge If I recall, the restaurant was called Sammy's for a while but I don't know if it had that name as late as 1979. Mertz Bakery may have been to the right of that rather than to the immediate right of the Little Professor. | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 225 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.57.109.226 |
Steve, I think you're right. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3535 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Hornwrecker, now over 1,000 posts of some of the best research ever on this website. Please send jjaba your email and he will send you a gift. You are just an outstanding and commited resource to us. jjaba would like to reward another centurian. This is turning out to be a very nice thread and jjaba hopes you continue it. Thanks to Hamtramck_steve and Livedog2, welcome to Steve, and Rustic always a pleasure. Jewish philanthropy is all over Detroit. Jews contribute heavily to Wayne State Univ. as if it was their college. Why? Because so many of us went there on the bus or streetcar for college. Because Jews have always valued education. The City of Detroit needed a strong public university for residents and Jews were a big part of it. Jews support the arts like DIA, orchestras, public schools, museums, etc. Jews support social services in a big way. You've seen the names; Prentis, Fisher, Taubman, Davidson. These are the visible, but everybody else gives too. For settlement patterns, follow the buildings of the Jewish Community Centers. Locations such as next to the Temple Beth El, Woodward and Elliot (now Bonstelle Theater); Woodward and Clairmont (now Considine Rec. Ctr.); W. Davison near Dexter, (now a church); Meyers and Curtis (now a city rec. center); W. 10 Mile Rd near Greenfield, 15 Mile Rd. and Drake. This is reflective of Jewish settlement patterns. Such centers are for recreation, library, concerts, plays, classes, food, arts, museums, social services, day-camps, and summer camp offices. Many had swimming programs and basketball leagues, senior services. When jjaba was a locker room attendant at Rouge Park Pools in the 1960s, he'll always remember the JCC buses full of kids. Their counsellors would yell, "Pincus, Yussel, you're in too deep water. Oy vesmere, I should plotz if I've gotta jump in and get those boy-az." jjaba was victim of anti-semitism growing up. Our cars would be soaped at Halloween, chalk drawing on our sidewalk, house windows defaced. All were either swastikas, or anti-semitic language. You can be model citizens but for some, that's not enough. jjaba, Westside Bar Mitzvah Bukkor. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2860 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
Hornwrecker, that's the place. To get to it, you use the Milwaukee Avenue gate for the plant, turn left and drive toward the trees. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 32 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Bravo, again Hornwrecker!  Hornwrecker, you get "the clap" twice in this thread for the great aerial view of Beth Olem Cemetery. I am so impressed by the intelligence, resourcefulness and attention to detail I have found on this website. I have been on a lot of chat rooms with people that were the dumbest "hockey pucks" you have ever had the displeasure of conversing with. But, this is the "best" of the "best" about the "best" of the "best" topics. DETROIT! We're different hockey pucks than the run-of-the-mill hockey pucks out there were Detroit Hockey Pucks! <);-}~  | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5449 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.216.150.127 |
When is it open? | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 28 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
As a student at U. of D. High in the early '70s, my friends and I used to take advantage of what remained of the Jewish neighborhood along West 7 Mile. In particular, I remember the New York Bagel Factory (on Myers?) where we once orderd a dozen dozen bagels for a friend's Sunday morning birthday brunch. Don't ask me why but the party somehow ended up at Cobo Hall where we crashed some convention full of middle-aged couples from Kansas and Missouri (I want to say Kiwanas) and handed out extra bagels. The birthday boy, who was tall, black, sported an Afro, and spoke like James Earl Jones, patiently explained over and over again that "a bagel is a Jewish bread" to the uncomprehending conventioneers. U. of D. was next door to Temple Beth Abraham on Seven Mile. On high holy days, we were always warned not to park on the streets closest to the synagogue. In general, U. of D. was a pretty "philo-semitic" place at the time. In what some might see as a surfeit of ecumenism, we frequently used those bagels for the communion bread at our--definitely post-Vatican II--masses. And senior year, when the Jewish and Christian calendars coincided, one of the Jesuits (who spoke Hebrew), presided over a combined Seder/Holy Thursday Mass. Today, of course, Beth Abraham is the Messiah Baptist Church--although I have heard rumors that U. of D., one of the very few Catholic high schools still to exist in Detroit, has occasionally been in talks to purchase the building. | ||
Boshna Member Username: Boshna Post Number: 130 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 141.213.217.188 |
Expat, I can confirm the rumor. The president of the school can't wait to get his hands on the property. The current pastor of Messiah Baptist has been discussing changing location. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 33 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
The Catholic and Jewish traditions have always held a fascination for me because as I said in the beginning of this thread they both have a looong history of customs, traditions, rituals, ceremonies and religion that is intertwined for better or worse which I like to think has been for the better. This all equates to a richness of culture and society that cannot be equaled anywhere that I am aware of. So, this kind of topic always gets my attention because it makes my own life richer for doing nothing more than talking about it with kindred spirits like I have encountered on this site and in this thread. I have soooo many stories in this vein that it is hard to pick and choose which ones to share. It use to piss me off that Jews just took all the shit that was thrown in their direction, just in my lifetime. Never mind what happened during the Second World War and the Holocaust. So, I started going to Hillel House in Oak Park and got involved with the JDL. I always had this edge or what my friends use to refer to about me as having this “warrior” bent to my personality. It has always been the good news and the bad news that I never took any shit from anybody without giving some back. The reasons are for somebody else to figure out, not me. So, I got involved with these JDL guys and thought I had found some kindred spirits. We use to get together a lot and do endless amounts of talking but after awhile I got tired of the talking and decided to do something about it. This was the early to mid 1960s so, I joined the United States Marine Corps and went to “boot camp” at MCRD in San Diego. Four months later I was a United States Marine and better than that I was a “Hollywood” Marine because that’s what everybody called Marine’s that went to “boot camp” in California. So, now I held the Badge of Courage that many wanted but few attained and I was ready – for what I didn’t know.  Then I got stationed in Kaneohe in Hawaii but I need a war to try out all those new skills. Never fear a war wasn’t very far away – Vietnam started heating-up and my unit got orders to go to Vietnam. We got there and the first thing we saw when we got off the plane at Ton Son Nhut was coffins being loaded onto cargo planes heading for Dover Air Force Base in Delaware with the bad news for many families in the states. A little reality started to set in about the glory and honor of war but not much. Once we got situated up north at Da Nang and Marble Mountain and started to go out on patrols more reality started to sink-in. We were overrun one night in 1967 and we had the makings of a whole section of panel for the future VV Wall with 38 names. The shine was definitely off of the apple of war but it was something that had to be done at the time. Then one day we were out in the bush and somebody said something like, “Hey, did you hear the Jews hit the Arabs so hard the Italians surrendered.” So, even though we had our own war to deal with – everybody, Jews and non-Jews were really taken with the Six Day War and what Israel had done in just six days. We couldn’t believe that little old Israel had kicked the shit out of the whole Arab world. And, don’t you know the pride was really something to see. Then a few months later Moshe Dyan came over for a visit with all the “big shot” U. S. high command and to tour some of our AOs. I was thrilled to see him and he made a big impression on everyone. The word from the generals was, “We sure are glad we don’t have to fight against him because he would be a formidable foe. Just ask the Arabs if you don’t believe it!” So, the Jews were really getting high praise for standing their ground and not letting the Arabs take liberties with them. The pride factor was really high. That’s one of my stories I thought I would share for this thread because it all started in Detroit and lead me halfway around the world and back.  Lovedog2 | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2861 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.148.29.5 |
AIW, Beth Olem is open the Sundays before Rosh Hoshanah (or is it Yom Kippur) and Passover. Basically once in the fall and once in the spring. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 34 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Hey Hamtramck_Steve, Do you have a phone number or any contact information concerning the visitation of Beth Olem? I don't want to miss it this spring if at all possible. Thanks. On another topic have you been to a place on Jos. Campau just south of Carpenter on the east side of the street called Krakus Restaurant? I find it to be the best around these days even better than Under the Eagle or Polish Village. Just wondering! Livedog2  | ||
Moreta Member Username: Moreta Post Number: 191 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I am not Moreta but still in the approval process and would like to add to this thread! My family was one of the first five to move into the newly built Hearthstone sub in 1957. I graduated from Clarenceville in '72; at that time most of the 'original' Jews had not begun their northern migration. Long story short, I moved out of state until 2003, then came back home and for some unknown reason bought a house back in Hearthstone. My parents are still three blocks away and some of the parents of my former classmates still live in the hood but it's very racially/culturally diverse now. The bagel shop Rustic mentioned is still at 7 and Middlebelt. Too bad the deli (Ben & George's?) that was on the SW corner isn't! | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 180 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.208.234.52 |
Moreta (not moreta, or moreta's guest) My older brother gradusted from Clunkerville in '72, We lived on Brentwood, three houses north of Fargo, on the west side. I graduated C'ville in '77. | ||
Moreta Member Username: Moreta Post Number: 193 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
Packman, I had brothers who graduated in '75 and '79, you probably knew both of the little whippers. Your geographical info does not give me a clue as to who you are, I can barely remember where I live now! My parents are on Maplewood, three houses south of Brentwood on the east side. If you drive down Morlock and don't turn, you run into their bedroom. Got any more clues for me? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3539 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Expat, jjaba attended Beth Abraham Synagogue B'Nai Brith Youth Org. meetings. He was there weekly for about two yrs. 1957-59. We met in a Sunday School classroom in the evenings. The room was smioke filled as kids then smoked. It was hard on the asthmatic jjaba. BBYO had girls and boys chapters. It is a Natl. Jewish Youth org. similar to Catholic, Protestant, and Muslim religious youth groups. Those were wonderful memories. The synagogue was quite new then, very modern. I'm certain Lowell's synagogue tour shows Beth Abraham. Remember, jjaba was closer to Dexter and the older shuls so he was impressed with the new bldg. and the fantzy W. Seven Mile Rd. community where the kids went to Mumford HS, lived in single brick homes, and were richer. jjaba is a Cass Tech. Grad, 1959. Shalom. jjaba. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2862 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.70.186 |
I don't remember for sure, but I think Cngregation Sha'arey Zedek is looking over Beth Olem. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3911 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.235 |
Also the black-folks from Detroit also follow the ethnic Jewish communities from Black Bottom to Southfield for the past 80 years. Like jjaba said any Jewish communities make their exodus ever 25 years for better homes, excellent schools, better retail and making bigger synagogues. Meanwhile the Hasidic Jewish communities resides mostly in the Oak Park neighborhoods as lons as their synagogues still standing and operating. You can find then walking along with the pretty black and white clothing along 10 Mile and Greenfield area and 9 Mile between Greenfield and Coolidge areas, surrounded and by the mostly African American middle class Oak Park neighborhoods.  Where I grew up. Temple Isreal was the LAST reformed Jewish Synagogue in NW Detroit until the moved to the West Bloomfield TWP. in 1980. The building is located in 17400 Manderson St. In Palmer Park ( also known as Crackhead Estates). (Message edited by danny on April 05, 2006) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3912 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.235 |
Also there some ethnic Jews living the SW Detroit areas. Del-ray was the hot spot are ethnic Hungarians and Polish and German Jews.  My Jewish (God Relatives) attended this EL MOSHE Synagogue in 29th Street north of Michigan Ave. Well until the 1940s. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3913 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.235 |
Arc312, Your right the money. When (Hitlerland) Livonia was incorporated as a city in 1950. There were lots of " Conservative and Democratic" Jews living there just like your mommy and daddy Well up to the 1980s When Farmington Hills is their next "Promise Land" for them. Today the northern neighborhoods of (Hitlerland) Livonia is still mostly white, There are a few middle class blacks started to move over there and hiding out in those rural homes and avoiding " INVINCIBLE SEGREGATION". | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3543 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Calling Livonia "Hitlerland" doesn't do anybody any good. Stop the hateful, hurtful talk. Thanks. jjaba. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 43 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Right on, Jjaba! I love that kind of straight forward no bullshit truth!! Livedog2 | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 626 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.73.3.111 |
right now theres a jew in my bed | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1093 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
It better not be jjaba. | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 627 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.73.3.111 |
let me check | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 628 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.73.3.111 |
nope not him | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3545 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Rock, bed schmed, what am I, chopped liver? Pish posh, this is a classy thread, stop it. jjaba. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3546 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
jjaba's notes on American culture come with the reminder of anti-semitic and hurtful speak. To say "I jewed him down," or "we got to jewin'" are examples of anti-semetic speak. To yell at jjaba and say "Hurry up Israel" is anti-semetic speak. To say "we got to 'chewing' on the price of the car" is anti-semetic speak. Often, it seems so normal to speakers who grew up with these slurs. But it IS anti-semetic speak. References to "Jews killing Christ" is anti-semetic speak. Comments that Jews ruin neighborhoods "'causin' they let the coloreds in" is anti-semetic speak. (jjaba has informed you that Jews move every generation as a community in Detroit area, that's 25 yrs. When the signal is given, Jews leave. Southfield, Michigan is a recent example. This has been going on since Jews arrived in Detroit from the earliest days of the city.) To refer to others as 'Hitler's' should be avoided. The real guy killed 6 million Jews so that's a name we don't like to hear, EVER. jjaba tells it like it tis. Thanks. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1097 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
jjaba, a little mishegas is not meant to take away from a very intereseting thread such as this one. You gotta remember that the rock is a chaver. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3063 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.9.218 |
Back to topic at hand. While searching for something this thread set off in my head, I came across this site. http://www.michjewishhistory.o rg/plaques.php Thanks jjaba, ticket came in handy, although I can't figure out who to invite. My uncle who is a shop steward at Chrysler in Windsor or his eldest brother who was Executive Salary Manager for the same Company. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3552 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Excellent web link Jams. Detroit Jews are proud of the accomplishments. Thanks for the props. As for The Rock and his ein bissela Yiddish, jjaba says "Don't haken dir a Tsheinik." (jjaba doesn't need the agrivation, really.) The Rock can repent by telling us all he knows about Jews in Grosse Pointe. Happy Pesach Rock. Schtick: What did the minks say on the way to the slaughterhouse? See you in shul. (Now that's humor.) jjaba, Westside Torah Bukkor. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3068 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.236.168.140 |
jjaba, as silly as that joke is, I'll pass it on to my college roommate, a Rabbi in Indiana. He probably heard it, but will pretend it was the first time he heard it. JamS - whose first home was a mink farm in Windsor. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 47 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Jams that was a great post with link, very informative for inquiring minds like mine. Livedog2 | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3069 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.236.168.140 |
Livedog2, Mazel Tov. I saw on an another thread you're another one of us "Old Farts". Isn't it great to still continue to learn and be amazed by the world around us? Someone once said "Youth is wasted on the young". I learn the truth of that every day. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 49 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Hey Jams just getting to be an "Old Fart" says something about the fact that we learn. That's the reason we are "Old Farts" because we did learn and that's the way we survived. A very wise man once said, “You learn somthin when you listen to ole people. You don’t get to be old bein no fool. A lota young wise men they deader than a mutha fucka, ain’t they?” --Richard Pryor  You said, "Someone once said "Youth is wasted on the young". I learn the truth of that every day." All I have to say about that Jams is, "Amen, brother!" The sensitivity of some of the members on this site is astounding. I think it has to do with too many boys being raised in a one-parent home with just their mother. Consequently the poor boys end up with a male archetype modeled to them by a female, mother figure. There’s probably no good solution to the problem other than to follow the Masai tradition of taking the boys into tribal clans at the age of 12 years and initiate them into manhood. Consequently, when boys are raised by their mothers and they start to go through the normal oedipal phase they've got one person modeling the mother and father archetypes. Wow! It has become such a complicated world that has caused much confusion amongst the young men and women of society. The lack of clear identity bonding is causing all kinds of problems in society. It’s not just the individual that has all of this confusion but there are predators of all kind praying on them in the form of priests, pedophiles, gangs, subcultures and on and on. All of this growing gang activity is about young men never being initiated into the male world in a productive, caring and/or familial manner. It’s sad, very sad and getting worse. I would not want to be a young person today for anything. I think it is a very harsh world to grow-up and live in. Livedog2 | ||
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria Post Number: 35 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Livedog2 & Jams ... the wise old dudes. Livedog2, you really put a lot of thought into your posts. It is great. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 50 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Thanks, Hysteria! I say what I say to others but who I am really saying them for is me. The important thing is for me to remember that fact and not get caught-up in the emotion of the moment. Sometimes easier said than done but such is the lot of all of us that walk the human walk. If somebody gets something out of what I have to say so much the better. But, it is the rare and wise person that can learn the lessons of life from other’s mistakes. I can't say that I have mastered that technique but I try. Best wishes to another pilgrim-on-the-path! Livedog2 | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3556 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Jams, see you in shul. (That was the timeliest post to a jjaba post. You are funny.) So jjaba asks the obvious question, "Did jams ever see his furry housemates in shul?" jjaba. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1098 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
Speaking of Pesach, I believe the story of The Four Sons is being told tonight at the GP Congregational Church on Chalfonte. The Jewish Council has met at the church for weekly services for the last couple of years. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Here’s a funny story about Hermann and my father. I was born and raised on the eastside of Detroit in the Davison Ave. and Detroit Area in the late 1940s and early 1950s. Detroit was such a great place to grow-up in back in those days. It was a rich community of families from a working class background. We were tied together ethnically, socially and religiously in a rich tapestry of interconnectedness. We didn’t have gangs and juvenile delinquents terrorizing the neighborhood. If you got out of line in the neighborhood somebody would see it and tell your parents and it would be dealt with immediately. But, that’s another story or another thread for another time. We had many peddlers and merchants that plied their trades in the neighborhood. We had Fruit & Vegetable Peddlers, Junkmen with horse drawn carts (How’s that for political correctness?), the Good Humor Man, Coffeeman, Dry Goods Salesmen, Knife Sharpeners, Key Makers, you name them and they came through the neighborhood. Well, Hermann was a Jewish Dry Goods Merchant that sold things like towels, sheets and pillowcases, rugs, house dresses (My mother wore them along with every other woman in the neighborhood.) and many items that were considered 2nds (Items with some kind of imperfections.). Hermann was a Polish Jew right from the Old Country where he had been a school teacher but he couldn’t get a job as a school teacher in the U. S. because he couldn’t speak English well enough to secure a job. So, he became a Dry Goods Merchant selling his goods in residential neighborhoods. Hermann was a very nice man with a pleasing personality and easy to get along with. I never had problems understanding him and it was obvious if to a kid he was a teacher and a good one. He always took time to talk to kids that wanted to talk to him because the kids were the ones that helped him get business. The kids would tell him about Mrs. Szymanski that needed some towels and Hermann would tell the kid a story about the rich man in the village he came from that paid kids to kiss his hand for a nickel. A very satisfactory exchange, indeed! All the women in the neighbor loved Hermann because he was such a good guy and felt so sorry for him because his wife that worked with him was such a shrew. One particular day Hermann came around selling his goods and my father just happened to be home for some reason. Usually Hermann came around during the day when the men of the house were at work and my father had no idea what Hermann looked like. I was sitting at the kitchen table with my father close to lunchtime when Hermann came to the door, knocked, said it was “Hermann”, said, “Hello Mrs. So-and-So, and walked in the front door through to the kitchen. I told Hermann that my mother wasn’t home and Hermann kept walking and walked out through the back door while my father was dumbfounded. My father said, “Who the hell was that?” and I said, “Oh, that’s Hermann!” As my father was shaking his head my mother walked in the front door to the kitchen and my father said, “Are you fooling around with that Jewish Dry Goods Merchant?”, mostly with tongue-in-cheek. And, I’ll never forget my mother said, “You’re not going to get off that easy!” and we all laughed.  Livedog2 | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 1921 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
Jjaba, Livedog2 and others, I took the time to read thru this entire thread last night, taking note that it began a mere 4 days ago. What an education I've had, and a richer heritage I don't recall. Just Livedog2's last post (right above this) gives such a vivid portrayal of life on the streets of Detroit in the 40's and 50's, I felt I was right there. I have nothing of substance to add except "Thank you and please continue." | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 578 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 209.69.221.253 |
Jjaba, on the subject of ethnic slurs, my folks remember when bone-and-rag men came through the alleys on horse carts back in the 30s and 40s. They still remember them as "the sheeny-man" in a very innocent way. Is that an old West Side slur on Jews? Or was it taken in the sense of pawnbroker? | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 53 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
I'm not Jjaba, Detroitnerd but since I posted the story that obviously caused your stream-of-consciousness to bring it up. You will notice that I didn't use that word " - " in my post because we use to call them " - " when I was a kid when they came through the alleys. But, the sensitivity that exists in this politically correct climate obviates the use of certain words once in common, innocent use. I never new there was anything wrong with using the phrase " - " until I used it in front of someone and they acted like they had stepped on a hot pad and proceeded to give me a lecture concerning political correctness. This in my opinion proves the fact that good or bad lies in the mind of the perceiver. Since this is an open forum I thought I would inject my 2 cents. I’m sure Jjaba will speak for himself. These " - " were very good, kind men and this is the way I remember them no matter what we call them. I have a number of stories about " - " but I'll save them for another time. Livedog2  | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3074 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.127.43 |
Loved the produce trucks running up the street blaring through their loudspeakers what they had to sell that day. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3558 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
"Sheeney" or "sheeneyman" is a nasty ethnic slur. It is a pejortative used to describe all Jews as nothing but rag pickers. Detroitnerd's family may have used it more innocently, but calling a Jew a "Sheeney" isn't "Kosher" (had to lighten up). The whole concept of Kosher is for another post. Today, ofcourse, scrap dealers are called metal dealers (they go to MD conventions), environmental services, or recyclers. Basicly, they still deal in junk. They ship tons of steel to mills, tons of paper to mills, tons or precious metals to be reused, tons of aluminium to be processed into new. They also deal in hides. But they started out as described as horse and cart junk pickers in our alleys. Part of this culture stems from an inability to get other work. Jews were often excluded from regular employment because of raw bigotry. Like Livedog2, jjaba has similar memories of the Westside street peddlers, horse and cart milkmen, knife sharpeners, Fuller brush salesmen, and the debit life insurance guys with big black books who came around to collect premiums. There were bookies in the back of some stores. jjaba, DOB May, 1941. jjaba, Westsider. (Oy veyesmere, bring back the pickle barrel on Dexter. jjaba picks from the bottom, after rolling up his sleeves.) | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 579 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 209.69.221.253 |
Thanks for the clarification, Jjaba, and the two cents LiveDog. My favorite story about the bone-and-rag man was how horrified my aunt was as a child when the horse had a tremendous erection. The poor kid ran inside screaming that "the horse is falling apart!" | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3075 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.127.43 |
Ah, jjaba, reminds me of the knife sharpener riding up and down the streets on his bicycle with his grindsone. JamS - wishing to pat Tony, the horse drawing the milk wagon, on his nose. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 55 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Does anyone know why rag pickers use to buy bones from housewives? And, not for just drawing pretty pictures on them like these!  Livedog2 | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 580 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 209.69.221.253 |
Bones had industrial uses, including being boiled down for glue. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3563 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Thanks nerd. jjaba almost forgot that rag pickers turned clothing into industrial rags. Rags are also to make fine papers. Big bales are shipped to paper mills. jjaba collected newspapers for many years. We bundled and stacked them in the garage. Then, on a vacation day, a Fishman truck would stop by and haul it away. We made some money that way. jjaba's brother and jjaba were in business together. We'd canvass the whole neighborhood with wagons. Our house never wanted for magazines. After reading them, they were bundled separately and worth a few pennies more than newspaper. jjaba. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3564 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
During the WWII, it was very patriotic to donate scrap metal. People sold silverware, house ornate cresting, iron stoves, anything that could be used. jjaba. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 56 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Good answer, Detroitnerd! But, what I had in mind was that the rag men use to do was with their very sharp pocket knives was they use to carve buttons out of those bones. Very intensive work but they use to do it in between or while they were talking to us kids or the women in the neighborhood. Then they use to sell the buttons to the ladies in the neighborhood. My mother use to buy these bone buttons all the time and they were beautiful! Handmade genuine bone buttons featuring a nicely polished finish.  Livedog2 | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3565 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Nice bones, Pincus. Roll the bones Harry. jjaba, in the alley on a concrete slab. | ||
Tarkus Member Username: Tarkus Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.43.117.118 |
I don't know if it was posted before but there is a seperate Jewish cemetary in the NE corner of Elmwood Cemetary. It is fenced off from the main body of the cemetary. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 61 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
This has been a great thread and I have learned so much from everyone. Thank you, all. Keep it coming and I've been saving some of my best vignettes for last! Mazel Tov!  Livedog2 | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 70 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
There is a building at 2935 Yemens St. just east of Jos. Campau on the north side of the street in Hamtramck. It is currently a Pentecostal Church but it has a suspicious look about it. I think it looks like it might have been a Jewish Synagogue at one time. Anybody know anything about this building and its history? Livedog2  | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 78 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Somebody must know about that building in the last post on this thread. So, I'll try again! Livedog2 | ||
Steve Member Username: Steve Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 85.65.27.94 |
The building does not appear in the Lost Synagogues website. If you go by there, see if there are any traces of a mezuzah on the doorpost. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 79 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Thanks, Steve for being the Centerian poster on this thread and answering my question! Great idea, I'll be by there Thursday to I'll look and photograph! If you look closely you can see my yamaka!  Livedog2 | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3583 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Livedog2, did Lowell post that shul on the Synagogues tour? Do some looking and see what you find. jjaba sure doesn't recall it. jjaba. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 81 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Another good idea, Jjaba! I'll look to see if Lowell included that shul on the Synagogues tour and I'll report back when I find out. My plate is full but I need to look into the Spring public opening at Beth Olem Cemetery. I don't want to miss the opportunity to visit "old" friends! It might be this week sometime. So, I need to figure out who to call at the GM Plant.  Livedog2 | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1033 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 66.2.148.126 |
Checking the map, 2935-39 Yemens shows a residential unit in 1941, however, 2929 Yemens, next to the alley, is labeled as St. Mary's Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Looks like the address was changed, or somebody got it wrong. Thanks... for asking. |
