  Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 861 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.112 |
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060715/BIZ03 /607150373 | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10323 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Wait until these people get mugged, or have friends who get mugged, they'll put their lofts up for sale a week later, just like they did in Birmingham. Seriously, who decides a week after making a purchase that it was the wrong decision? In all honesty, these are EXACTLY the people that myself and others fear are going to start moving down here. They don't know, nor understand Detroit, they are coming here for only one reason, it goes against the grain. Now I'm not denying that Detroit needs people to move here, and people whom are educated as well as mid to high income are by far the most desirable. It's simply that when you have a person that is willing to put their place up for sale after just one week, what will they do if their car window gets smashed, they or their close friends get mugged, their trash doesn't get picked up on time, their park isn't mowed, or some other inconvenience occurs? At least the first person in the article, Neil Greenberg, seems to be the type that jumps on whatever is cool/trendy at the time. Well, I got news for him, he may find that the "edge" that he is looking for may be a bit more than he is willing to handle. It will be interesting to see just how tolerant many of these newbies really are. Leah, she seems to be well aware of what to expect, as she seems to have tested the waters well beyond the typical suburban stops. I would put my money on her for one that stands the test of time. I have zero problem with people moving to Detroit from all walks of life. Yet when I read about somebldy who bought a place, lived there one week, then decides they need to move to Detroit, it tells me a lot. To me, it tells me that they are venturing into an environment that they know absolutely NOTHING about. Even after moving here, it took me another 1.5 years I'd say before I was comfortable with my environment and everywhere I choose to go. The details in which I just read lead me to believe that at least SOME are making the move to Detroit simply to go against the grain, to break the norm they are used to. In all honesty, Detroit will chew them up and spit them out. That's just my two cents. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1702 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.131.201 |
My sentiments exactly, SS. As soon as something negative happens, the majority of the folks in this article will be running back to "boring" Royal Oak. Yes, it's nice to have them come to Detroit and show a commitment to live, work, and play here. However, as soon as the youngsters want to get married and raise a family, they'll be gone in a heartbeat. The argument about the city doing more for the people coming to live in or invest in downtown than for people in the neighborhoods is getting real tired. Entrepreneurs choose where they want to invest. Right now it appears that many want to invest their money and sweat equity into downtown Detroit because they see a return on their investment. People in the neighborhoods need to come together and pool their money, and skills together to become the entrpreneurs who will help sustain their neighborhoods. As long as the city picks up trash, lights the streets, repairs potholes and broken sidewalks, and provides police and fire protection to the neighborhoods, then it's up to the people in the neighborhoods to do the rest. They need to stop complaining about what the city doesn't do for them. The city can't do everything. | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 1052 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.77.163.16 |
Maybe they should all buy glocks. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 402 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
Whether someone moves downtown and than decide to move again after a week, a month, or after 5 years, why would that have any negative impact on anyone? They move out, someone else will move in. Does it come down to these people not being gritty enough to live in a city like Detroit? It's not like you're going to have to hang out with them. Chances are that you'll never even see them or know who they are. Some people tend to make impulsive decisions, especially younger people. After a while they may decide that downtown living is not for them so they move out, at least they gave it a try. With Detroit's declining population I really doen't think anyone should be all that choosy as far as who decides to move into the city. Anyone who puts in the effort to give even a try at living in Detroit should be applauded, not met with a negative reaction. (Message edited by rjk on July 15, 2006) | ||
Pjazz Member Username: Pjazz Post Number: 52 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.212.57.249 |
I don't think you get the point at all. This person might of just bought the condo as an investment found a buyer and made money on the deal. He might have moved to Detroit not as just to be trendy, but also as an investment. Most people who have money don't just throw it away for no reason. And as for your mugging comment. Just because you live in the city does not mean your inevitably going to be mugged. Anytime the city attracks a resident or investor why is there aways someone injecting something negative? I though this was a positive thread | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10324 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Oh hell no! For these would be the types who would shoot the homeless guy the first time they ask them for money. Why? Because he looked homeless and was threatening them. Or perhaps it would be some man with mental problems with his pants around his ankles coming towards them, like our undereducated state police officer recently. That conversation came up again the other night at the bar, with a witness to the incident in attendence. I feel the only reason that incident happened was because the officer was not educated properly to work in the environment he was placed. You, myself, and most others would not feel a need to shoot and kill somebody coming towards you with their pants around their ankles. It was a situation that while doesn't happend on a regular basis, would not exactly shock most of us who live down here, as we've seen a lot. People who have moved down here mostly up until now, while labeled "cool/hipsters" or whatever by the media, have for the most part understood Detroit. They realize it's troubled past as well as Detroit's current issues. Others, such as this new wave, I fear don't realize totally what they are getting into. They are instead jumping in feet first and at the first sign that things aren't like where they moved from they are going to be ready to move out. I hope I'm wrong. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1037 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.38.14.237 |
Wow. People here complaining about young suburbanites moving into the city. Before, they were "dumb, ignorant suburbanites" and now they are stupid people moving into the city to be cool and will shoot the first homeless person they see?? If this is tha attitude, it is no wonder Detroit is in the state it is today. | ||
Andysrc Member Username: Andysrc Post Number: 95 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 67.149.107.157 |
So who are the "right" kind of people you want moving to Detroit? This is a great sign. Not everyone is as passionate about Detroit as you are Supersport. If the only people who moved to Detroit were the really, really dedicated and passionate ones, then you're going to have an awfully empty city. Some people just want to live in a place they enjoy and that works for them. They don't care if that place is Birmingham or Detroit. And who can blame them? I'd say these are exactly the people you want moving to Detroit. It shows that Detroit is really in the consideration set for a demographic beyond the hipsters. Explain again how that is bad? Are these people not "cool" enough or not "real" enough for you? Are some going to move out quickly? Probably. But some are going to stay. And then I think more people will follow them to Detroit. Unless you want them to fill out the Supersport Application for Residence. In which case, enjoy your ghost town. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 779 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.216.138.26 |
I have to agree with you Motorcitymayor, If this is the response to a good news story for Detroit, no wonder we're still losing people by the thousands. To add to that, our population is unlikely to grow because it's obvious that there is no one to fit the bill as a someone "we want". Detroit does not need to be selective, it needs everyone and I say welcome to the city, bring your family and friends over for a visit. Thats what I had to do to convince them that my area was safe and after dragging them over to my place, they were very impressed as how the area was and now they stop by fairly frequently. If they stay, fine, if they leave fine, at least they showed up and made the effort, now if people react to them like some on this board have, they should leave, why live where you are not welcome. Detroit will not rise based on "hipsters" keeping it real (whatever that type of crap means). Bring everyone, we've got space for what, almost a million people. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1703 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.131.201 |
"Detroit will not rise based on 'hipsters' keeping it real..." is the reason for the complaining, Gildas. These youngsters sound like they're moving here because it's "hip" or "trendy" for now. Will they be here a year from now when the newness wears off? I'm not saying they aren't welcomed, but based on some of their comments, some of them won't be here for long. Yes, their presence helps the city in the short term, but if they're only here to capitalize on what's "trendy," then they probably won't be here in the long term, which is what Detroit really needs for a comeback. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 162 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.199.98.217 |
Don't see this as a negative comment, just one of concern. My take is that Supersport and friends don't fear their neighborhood is threatened, instead they worry that these newbies will get harmed or harm others because of their lack of street smarts. It doesn't happen often, but there are young kids who move to New York totally unaware that this city still has its unexpected dangers. Is New York Losing Its Street Smarts? (Preview only) | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 404 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
For a comeback Detroit needs people regardless of whether they stay for a short period or not. If they leave after a short period they'll be replaced by someone else. So now people moving downtown isn't good enough unless they make a long term commitment? How long of a commitment people make will depend on how much the city developes and improves over the coming years. For the most part people won't move because they're done capitlaizing on what's trendy (Whatever that means), they'll move becasue they're unhappy with the direction of the downtown area and a lot of that will fall upon the shoulders of the leaders of Detroit. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 598 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.81.243 |
Where are the million dollar condos going to be at? Is he talking about a riverfront development? I think a real thresh hold will be crossed when million dollar + condos can be sold in the core AWAY from the river. Anyway, I'm loving this article. Who cares if someone ultimately decides to live in Detroit for a few years after moving in from the suburbs. At least they had an open enough mind to even consider the city, even if they might be a little naive or too idealistic. I still am a firm believer than an iconic condo tower of significant height and unique architecture would sell very well in Detroit. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10326 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Exactly. I welcome new people here with open arms, yet with each person I meet that truly does have a lvoe for the city and passion to stand the test of time, I see 10 more who move out after a few years and move on with life elsewhere. In all honesty, I think more than anything, it's the fact that this guy sold his place after just a week. If that doesn't put a transient label on you, then I don't know what does. Not to mention, could you get any more polar opposite than Birmingham vs Detroit? I'm sorry, but to most people, it's either or, not well, I'm not sure I really like this one, some I'm gonna try the complete opposite option, see how that works out. I hope I'm wrong. I hope this guy moves here, loves it, and accepts many of the shortfalls as simply the way things are, knowing that there is an ongoing effort to improve things. I'm sure Royce would agree that many of our comments, while offensive to many, come after seeing people leave time and time again, after saying "I love it in Detroit, I'm never leaving!" The reality of it is, while people may say this, only a small select few truly mean it. What they are really saying is "Detroit is really cool, I like it....but....at some point I'll move on." I blogged about this very fact just a few days ago, seems fitting to link to it so maybe people will better understand my point. http://sof8mile.blogspot.com/2 006/07/goinggoinggone.html There were actually some good, extensive comments by others who understood my point of view 100%. Basically, when I moved here, I felt I was put under observation by one friend. No matter what, they didn't believe my happy go lucky comments about Detroit. Why was that? I didn't understand at the time, though I do now. It was sort of a test, a test that most have failed when this friend has submitted it to many others over the past 20 years. Everybody always says "Oh, no way am I ever leaving, NO MATTER WHAT!" That was me. Yet over the years, this person lost friend after friend, moving away, both to the suburbs and even out of state. So why am I and others immediately responding with a knee jerk reaction where we seem to be attacking somebody who makes good money and is moving here? Because time after time we see people like this talk the talk, but then walk the walk back north of 8 mile after "things change" as so many people like to put it. Do I like the fact that I have become this person that criticizes people the way I do? Not really, but then I think about why I do it, because of this long list of "used to live here" that I have in my head that continues to grow. I've grown to realize that while Detroit obviously needs renters and people fresh out of college to continue it's growth, what Detroit REALLY needs are people who will buy a house in Detroit, become involved in the community, work for change in the schools, etc. Basically, a means to rebuild the tax base. Somebody moving here because it seems cool at the time is not a long term means to fix Detroit, it's simply a bandaid that will be replaced with a new wave after the previous one crests and rolls back into the suburbs. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1038 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.227.64.186 |
Exactly, Mindfield. Who cares how long they stay?? They may encourage others to move here whether they stay or note, and in the meantime they are paying taxes, supporting local businesses,etc. | ||
Andysrc Member Username: Andysrc Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 67.149.107.157 |
Supersport, it's not just in Detroit where people only stay for a year or two. Many people, especially those right out of college, might move a lot. I've moved three times since college and it's only been four years. I understand what you're saying about Detroit really needing people who are going to purchase homes and raise families in the ciy. However at this point, any person who moves to Detroit should be greeted with open arms. And if they move out after a year or two, that's just the way it goes for some people. It isn't necessarily a slight against Detroit if this 25 year old stays for two years and then moves. Lots of people in that age range do similar things, and not just in Detroit but in the suburbs too. When you're young without as many responsibilities or kids, it's easy to pick up and move 10 or 100 miles away. It would be great if everyone had your passion for Detroit, but most people don't have that passion for Detroit (or for any town, city or suburb). While one goal is to get people to really love Detroit and be willing to work to make the city better, another goal should be to attract the vast majority who just want to live where it's easiest and nicest and most convenient. If you ignore those masses, or insult them or consider them not the "right kind of people", then you're really ignoring a huge population and doing the city of Detroit a disservice. Detroit is not to the point yet where people are climbing over each other to get in. Can't be too selective right now. | ||
Redetroit Member Username: Redetroit Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 152.163.97.179 |
I agree with Mind_field, I think this article is great. It's articles like these (the positive ones) that are really going to grab people's attention and enable Detroit to become an option for potential homebuyers. I talked to a friend of mine who lives in Royal Oak this morning, and the first thing he said was how great this article was and how he's really considering making the move too. He said articles like these really make him want to live in the City. For a while it seemed that most college grads either moved out of state, to Royal Oak, Ferndale, or maybe Birmingham....now Detroit is becoming a real option, and many are starting to go for it. I wish there were more articles like this. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 572 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
People like this are making it more expensive for people like me to aford places in Detroit. Dirty | ||
Thedownriviera Member Username: Thedownriviera Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.61.202.250 |
Living here the last few years I have had my car broken into twice and had my GPS and radio stolen. Trash is regularly thrown on my lawn. Someone walked up to my house and cut the cable line. Homeless people beg for money daily. I've been chased down Michigan Ave in my car by hicks. People have been shot and murdered across the street from my old dorm. Last fall a middle-aged woman down the street was raped on a sunny afternoon. A man was stabbed in the face and neck in broad daylight at the gas station closest to my home. I live in Ypsilanti. Bullshit is going to happen no matter where you live. My roomate and I will be moving downtown because I figure if I'm going to get robbed, it may as well be somewhere interesting like Detroit. So far I've had less drama in Detroit. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2780 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.211.36 |
Supasport, listen to you, getting all nationalistic. LOL. Old immigrants opposing the new. I guess the frost is off the pumpkin. Seriously though I find the article very positive as a whole. The CofD needs gain and retain population, especially taxpaying citizens. There isn't going to be enough newbies to upset any political dynamics so nobody needs get their panties in a twist and feel threatened. It's win / win. Xd_brklyn what happens in NYC has little comparison to the Detroit as this market has plenty of space in which to expand if need be. NYC is all filled up for the most part. There is no fabulous apartment ruins tour there. Thanks for the scare stories the rest of you, but they won't work. Detroit is rolling. Off to have fun at the 4th Street fair. | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 1053 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.77.163.16 |
It will be interesting to see what happens to Supersport once he has a wife and kids...... | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 191 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.228.111 |
So why did you move to Farmington Hills then Lowell... "Not that there is anything wrong with that." Gentrification is a friend of mine regardless if it is considered cool or not. Imagine if we didnt have to worry all the time and make judgements about people moving here and whether or not they "could handle it" Why do you people on here idolize Detroit's grittyness. If you love grit then worship and revere Toledo or Gary Indiana and leave Detroit alone so it can one day resemble a somewhat normal city. One that people, the cools and uncools, can see as an inviting and worthwhile place. Make a neighborhood for your "hipster" friends. The people who are tough enough to make it in the thuggish ruggish confines of Detroit. That way my property values, state of mind, optomism, and horizon can grow here in Woodbridge where I still have party stores with fucking BARBED WIRE rooftops!!! Seriously..... You guys are making this big stink about the types of people moving here and the worthiness of their selfbeing yet I have a sea of mendicants and beggars outside my window mindlessly wandering around an assorted collection of fortress architecture. I don't value bars on windows, barbed wire rooftops, clubs on every car, abandoned buildings, broken glass along every curb, and the most ghetto consumer market outside of Baghdad. If not for University Foods I would have to drive 12 miles in any direction to get a normal shopping experience. In a city with so many ills how could you not be happy about sane and working people moving in as your neighbors? Is the designation of hipster so detrimental to your existence? It is changes like these that will have to happen for the city to ever become self sufficent and vibrant again. So should I assume that you never want it to be that way? Plain and simple - grow up and learn to love the haves as well as the have nots. Bussey: Supporter of a Viable Detroit | ||
Ltrain Member Username: Ltrain Post Number: 95 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.220.225.152 |
Honest to god you guys can sure shit on a welcome cake. You guys should be helping these folks move their shit. It's good news, no need to be scared. If they stay for an hour it's a good thing. When I find a renter for my house and move down there will Royce and SS be welcoming me? I am guessing not. Why not spray some stupid racist comments on their front door like we do in the horrible suburbs? "Welcome honkies!" | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 827 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
This is the beginning of the second, or third wave depending on how you look at it, of gentrification hitting the greater downtown area. This is a great sign. It means the people who started the first wave, who had the idea, who took the chance, who stuck through the tough times, can cash in. I say let them come. There is plenty of room for everyone. I don't think the greater downtown area can become too similar to Birmingham or Royal Oak or even Ferndale, at least for the forseeable future. Not while Jacoby's, Sweetwater, St. Andrews and the Zoo Bar remain within spitting distance of each other. Downtown Detroit has a unique dynamic compared to all of those places: variety. The Birminghams, Royal Oaks and even the Ferndales will remain mostly homengous white areas for a long time. However, Detroit is a black city sprinkled with several different cultures, such as Mexican, Arab, Polish, etc. The greater downtown area is one the few places where all of these races feel comfortable. It gives downtown the opportunity to be one of the truly diverse enclaves of the metro region. Add to it that Detroit will alwasys have the stigma of its reputation, not always a bad thing, to give it an edge that Birmingham will never have. Downtown has the potential to be comparable to Royal Oak, but I highly doubt it will turn into the next Royal Oak. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 192 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.228.111 |
well said | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8627 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.54.70.86 |
Blondy, nothing will happen because no one would marry Sport and I am sure a guy who downs that much beer must shoot "blanks". | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 226 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.174.92.165 |
Hipsters?!? .........there goes the neighborhood!  | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 784 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.216.138.26 |
I'll welcome you Ltrain, come over to EEV!! | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 785 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.216.138.26 |
I don't blame someone for moving to the city for a few years and then, if they find something better, they move out of the city, state, whatever. They did not fail those of us who remain, or the city. It is the city that failed to keep them and they moved on to greener pastures, like almost one million before them. Detroit failed, not the people testing the waters. | ||
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11 Post Number: 25 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 67.162.120.172 |
i didnt read this whole post, but it would be extremely dumb to not want these people moving in. Additionally, I actually know the Neil Greenberg kid and is a very smart guy and passionate about the city. He was one of the founders of a program called summer in the city where suburbanites come to the city and do a plethora of community service activities. I bet that story about moving after one week was somewhat fabricated. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 285 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
As a recent college grad who was born and raised in the more affluent suburbs-Southfield and West Bloomfield I decided to move down here last year and don't plan on moving out. I have a knowledge of Detroit's issues but seriously this kind of OVER THE TOP DRAMA AND JUDGING shown on this thread is totally out of line. Just chill out and relax, this is a great story and just like any other big city, Detroit has its problems and these kids moving here know that. They weren't born yesterday nor raised in isolation, they are from the suburbs and probably have a worse perception of things just like most people from the suburbs do then people who actually live here. I should know, I was one of them and still am. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10327 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Looks like somebody either hasn't been paying attention to what I've been saying all this time, or simply can't comprehend the fact that somebody is willing to remain here...no matter what! You wanna place your bets, feel free. | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1021 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.194 |
I remember SS when he was just a boy. He had so much to learn. It was so cute. But, I have a serious question for Blondy. Are you assuming that SS would move from Detroit if he started a family? Why? Why do so many people consider this to be normal behavior, and when did it become so? I personally believe that it's important for a child to have a variety of experiences and interact with a variety of people. I didn't always have that growing up, especially after moving to an overwhelmningly white suburb at age 10, but I feel that to the extent I did, it made me a better person. My parents trying to move us somewhere "safe" contributed little to making me a better adult. As for those who have recently moved to Detroit, or are considering doing so, I say welcome! | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 845 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.40.89.238 |
Welcome aboard - come one, come all! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2445 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.112 |
Bobj.... are you doing theatre tours again in August? I'll be at the State Theatre again, my 8th year. I hope we do the training at the Opera House again... Michael Hauser always gives us a great tour of newly finished areas of the building. Although last year the rooftop tour really gave me vertigo.... Back on thread..... yes some people will move to Detroit, encounter crime first hand, and then move out.... it's been that way for decades. Nothing new. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 573 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
Chitaku=back to livin in D after a 3 year hiatus! | ||
Innovator Member Username: Innovator Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 160.39.245.197 |
I think people might come down here, encounter our car insurance rates first hand, and move out. | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 299 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.47.103.87 |
i couldn't read all the comments on this post because of all the gross generalizations people were making, not only on the people featured in this article, but also on people in general who are moving from the suburbs to the city. so you know all these people? do you REALLY THINK that so many of them are just making completely blind decisions about moving down here? and not doing any kind of research before hand, or could even possibly know first hand about some of the issues the city has? and how quickly we forget that most news articles do not always tell the whole story....while i do not know him all that well, and cannot speak for him, i actually did have a lengthy conversation with one of the people featured in this article a few months back and he gave me many detailed reasons why he wanted to move to the city and was more than ready to take it on right then and there. he works IN the city and i can also say for a FACT that he is by far, one of the most actively supportive people in the city as well...more so than some people i have come across in this forum. so before you go passing judgement on people you read about in news articles and assuming their motives, why not try to give them just an ounce of the benefit of a doubt. i know it's gonna be hard, but why not give it a try. you all know that the city needs more residents, you even say so in these posts...yet you all still have this exclusive mentality about it. you don't want *those kind of people*? come ON. get over yourselves. it's mindsets like these that has aided in keeping detroit 'empty' for so many years. i think it's great that these people are making a move. and if it doesn't work out for them over the next few years, so be it. city living isn't for everyone, and it might not be linked with having to find off the homeless and deal with high car insurnace. but if this trend continues, and i think it will, then it won't make a lick of difference if people come and go as they please for whatever reason it might be. /end rant | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
i completely agree with Valkyrias' above comments. I think detroit has to many burning issues other than who is moving into the downtown area. not to mention any names but some of the folks on this thread seem unbelievably shallow. small town gossips living in the big city. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1794 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.220.233.151 |
Marriage isn't the issue. I know several young couples who've staid in their lofts after their wedding. Kids, however, can be a different issue. Whether or not they stay will depend in large part on what Detroit is like when it's time for those kids to start getting ready for school.
True, of course, for that to change - it's not necessarily a matter of grumbling at the hipsters who move downtown. It's more a matter of making sure that Detroit delivers on the rhetoric. In my opinion, the best way to start that transformation is to ensure that the City delivers on basic city services (see my various rants about 9-1-1). After that, start cutting taxes. (Message edited by fnemecek on July 16, 2006) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4971 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
Oh, Supersport...
This is laughable. Just laughable. I can't believe you're serious.
But I don't know how you could say this for sure. Can anybody really say where they'll be living in 10 years? It's nice to say "I'm here for the duration," but for all you know you could have to move for one reason or another. Shit happens. And I love the "We never really wanted them here anyway" rhetoric when discussing the people who move out. Really classy. They're urban pioneers when they move to Detroit, but when they have the audacity to move out, they're somehow a traitor to some nonsensical cause. It's like a restaurant with 50 empty tables turning away customers at the door because they don't like that the customers are hungry. Both sides lose out. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1806 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.220.233.151 |
Valkyrias, What on Earth do you think you know about folks in their 20s who were born & raised in the 'burbs but who decided to move downtown? You just need to trust our resident expert, SuperSport. | ||
Davidmausolf Member Username: Davidmausolf Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 65.35.52.59 |
Your exactly right fnemecek, supersport obviously knows that those people from outside detroit really dont care about their city, thats why they moved there in the first place. supersport, most people mid-upper class people want their parks cut, safe streets, a clean neighborhood, and other things they've come to expect, and they want it in an urban environment, so if they cant get it they're going to leave. Its simple as that. (Message edited by davidmausolf on July 16, 2006) | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 148 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 12.45.2.184 |
That's what cities do. People move in make their money then they leave. Your not supposed to grow old in the city......you can but cities are engines, that turn....fast, trendy or not Detroit is on the upswing. Downtown and the river are the best parts of Michigan. People want to be where the action is. Personally, living in Detroit has it's ups and downs.......just like New York. You have to take the good and the bad. Downtown Detroit happens to look better than Lower Manhattan. Keep shinning Detroit! 313 | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1022 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.194 |
Rant from someone who not only won't take the time to read the messages in this read, but doesn't live here either. Take it for what it's worth. | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1023 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.194 |
Wow, here's another person that doesn't live here and probably never will, but feels the need to call out SS. Look, SS, might be totally off-base in his comments, but at least he is putting his money where his mouth is, so to speak. This is far more than I can so for some folks on this Forum, who don't seem to realize when it's not their turn to talk. | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 247 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Detroit313, Better than Lower Manhattan?!? You were obviously in the wrong city or smoking some of Danny's crack. Before you think I'm Detroit bashing, I've lived downtown for most of the time I've been in Detroit (1979), and live here now. It will take a long time for downtown Detroit to be at the level of lower Manhattan, if ever. I love Detroit (especially downtown), but at least keep it real. NYC it is not. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 999 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.236.163.239 |
Okay, I live in Detroit and I think SS is a douc... oh, nevermind. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 149 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 12.45.2.184 |
Yes Islandman, Better!!! What Detroiters complain about, New Yorkers really don't care about...and that is the cleanenest of the streetscape. Lower Manhattan is clean but Downtown Detroit is cleaner. Do you want pictures????.........I hate having to prove my point! And I won't be bias either. 313 | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 249 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Saying it looks better is relative. I'll take slightly dirtier sidewalks for all the pluses that are in lower Manhattan. Don't need to see the pics as I used to work at Chase Manhattan Plaza in Wall Street. Having a plethora of options for lunch within walking distance may have clouded my perception of how clean the sidewalks were. If downtown Detroit had the amount of foot traffic that lower Manhattan sees in a day, we'd be living in barges on the river because of all of the trash. Kidding, but I would love to see that. (Message edited by Islandman on July 16, 2006) | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 300 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.47.103.87 |
drm, do you know me? because i am pretty sure we haven't met...and if we have, well, then you obviously didn't speak to me long enough to find out ANYTHING about me, so how would you have any idea where i live and why i live there? and for the record, i read the first half of the comments, and skimmed the rest. i didn't have to read too much in depth because i saw a lot of the same bull shit over and over, "we don't want these people...they'll move out so what's the point of thinking they'll stick around..." and so on. it wasn't necessary to read every single ignorant comment to make my point. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
Okay---one of the most absurd messages on this thread to date::::: "You have to take the good and the bad. Downtown Detroit happens to look better than Lower Manhattan"---Egad!!!!! I'm sure people worldwide would wonder about that one. No offense to Detroit---but NYC you're not. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 522 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.209.147.12 |
A 24-year-old recent UM graduate who can afford to buy a fancy loft in Birmingham or the Ellington ..... I wonder what he does for a living ??? Interesting selection of people being highlighted in the article. Hmmm ..... | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1024 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.194 |
Good for you. I believe I stated that SS's comments were off-base. You have a blog where you choose to reveal your thoughts and where you live to strangers. I disagree with most everything that SS has written on this thread (I remember when he was the person he's talking shit about now), but I also believe that he's earned the right to have his opinion mean more than the opinions of those who don't live here, and he certainly doesn't deserve the personal attacks from those people for stating his opinion. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 451 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
You just haven't been looking hard enough. I remember seeing "Honkies go home!" spray painted on the side of a party store near UofD Mercy. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2692 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.3.7 |
Darwin, he actually works in the public sector. (I know some of the people mentioned in this article). As I alluded to in the 20 in their 20s thread, and referencing Darwin's point about people highlighted in this (or many other articles about a wide range or matters), it's all about PR and connections. Many of the writers and principles in stories know each other. The "real committment vs temporary trendiness, but when the bad comes..." argument has a good amount of validity (while also recognizing that Detroit pretty much needs anyone of means that we can get), however, the mindset of those only wanting certain type of people to come here says alot about those posters and the city. The people that don't want certain "types" moving here are a type (hood/racist/hipster/certain politicos) themselves that are seeking to protect the image (and in the politico case, livelihood) of their lifestyle. And that type is not what the city needs. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 914 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 4.165.39.52 |
Fantastic! Bring on the rich, no matter their skin color! | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 301 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.47.103.87 |
"You have a blog where you choose to reveal your thoughts and where you live to strangers." that may be true...but you must not read it because you still don't know me. and is it your business to re-post information about me like that? not really. if people happen upon my blog, that's one thing. but for you to call me out like that is uncalled for. and i did not single out any one person on my original post...supersport is not the only one who voiced his sentiments. for that matter, i have had conversations with supersport on this very topic and i'm pretty sure he knows where i stand. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 150 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 12.45.2.184 |
Nevertheless Detroit is Hot. And Getting hotter. Invest now.......I remember when the loop was....well not as nice as it is now....Now look at it. Detroit is on the come up. The bad thing is that mass transit or not Detroit will be so "liviable" in the next decade that traffic will be a nightmare.313 | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1025 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.194 |
You're right, I don't read it and I don't know you. I didn't post anything that would reveal your identity or the identity of your blog. I agree that if someone happens upon it, that's one thing, but it's not my business to out anyone on this Forum. If you read the entire thread before you posted your rant, you would have seen that most folks disagreed with SS. Therefore, I assumed that your rant was directed towards him. I do know that you know SS personally. So do I, but that doesn't stop me from disagreeing with him when I feel he's wrong. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10328 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
DRM, Thanks for the "sort of" supportive words. When I first moved here, I was totally oblivious. There was a reason long time Detroiters doubted my heart, as they had heard the same old bullshit coming out of my mouth that they had heard from dozens of other friends over the years. I have put my money where my mouth is, and yet some people still have to toss out the "Yeah, just wait until you're married or have kids." Perhaps some simply can not understand the concept when I state I am here to stay. Within a date or two, I know whether or not a girl is down with Detroit or not. If she states that Detroit is cool, but could never live here, then that is it. No if and or buts about it. At that point I no longer need to get to know her better, as it could lead to a path in life that I have been vigilant in stating that I WILL NOT FOLLOW. Yet time and time again, people try and toss that into my face. Then we have Aram, who I try and give some slack, as I was the same dumbass when I first moved here. Thought I understood how things were, but in reality, didn't have a clue. I'm still learning each and every day. As for Valkyrias, we have in fact spoke on this topic. I know her background with Detroit, time spent having fun as well as time volunteering. I feel that it is very likely that sooner or later she will end up here. Whether or not she moves here for good is left unknown. Hell, I didn't know when I first moved into Riverfront that my passion for the city would grow to the point where I would say "That's it, this is where I live out my life." It's something that one day all of the sudden hits you, at least that is the way it was for me. Hell, there is even a difference when you compare downtowners to people in Detroit's neighborhoods. I came into home ownership fairly well prepared to what to expect, and really haven't had too many surprises. I've yet to be a victim of a crime, but somebody took it upon themselves to venture into my backyard a few weeks back and look around while I wasn't home. This just a few days after a neighbor had his new mower bougth 2 days prior stole from his garage. Then a few weeks after that this person was mugged at gun point, pretty much behind my house. So what I'm saying is, there will be a lot of people who talk the talk, but then after a few years they'll be walking back north of 8 mile. That's just the way it is. Many don't wanna put up with the bullshit that many have to put up with down here. Yet if people simply keep moving away, it will never get better. I've already began passing along info I have learned from long time Detroiters. I've had more than a few recently inquire about the steps to gun ownership. While people on here cry bloody murder over the topic, after you are here awhile you understand the reasoning. It gives you peace of mind knowing that you know longer have to be afraid if by some small chance you get car jacked, mugged, or somebody kicks in your front door. I sure wouldn't want to feel defenseless in my own home. I've stated my point of view, both here and on my blog, so I have little more to add. But I'll just say that once you lay roots here, your perspective often begins to change drasticly. I don't mean renting in some apartment downtown either. I'm starting to understand why Rasputin often referred to downtown as Disneyland, as it is hardly representitive of the rest of the city. So with that, I'll sit back and just wait and see how many are here living in Detroit 10 years from now, then we can discuss who was speaking the truth and who was right or wrong. | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 302 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.47.103.87 |
you may not have revealed my identity, but you still called me out as to where i might live. something i have never admitted on here...isn't there some kind of unspoken rule on here about that? as i said, i read most of the responses before, and all the responses after, my own. i did see the ones (including yours) who disagreed with ssport and others. so what's the big damn deal, then? this is not an uncommon topic on the forum, too. and in general, i am just sick of hearing the same crap from whomever chooses to spew it. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2693 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.3.7 |
"But I'll just say that once you lay roots here, your perspective often begins to change drasticly." SS, "once you lay down roots" and "hearing the same old bullshit" goes both ways. In the last five years (in particular), I've known/encountered people that have lived here for decades (in their late 20s, 30s, and 40s) that have left, are in the process of leaving, or seriously considering a move. Some are headed out of state, many to the suburbs. And yes, there can be big differences in views between Downtowners/Midtowners and people living in the rest of the city. I've often thought that was part of the skew of opinions (of city residents) on this forum. Downtowners/Midtowners seem overly represented and their views taken as that for the city as a whole. | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 252 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Agreed Metrodetguy, I've lived at Chene&Vernor, 6&Lodge, 7&Southfield, 8&Gratiot, and more recently Milwaukee Park Lofts and River Place. Living out of the downtown area is a whole different Detroit experience. Out of all of them, I like downtown the best. I wouldn't mind a house in Rosedale Park or Sherwood Forest though. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 286 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
So let me get this straight....in order to be a "real Detroiter" you have to live in "the hood" and experience crime?? That's the most ridiculous thing in the world, that people have lowered the standard of living so much in Detroit that you aren't considered a "real Detroiter" unless you live in a poor, bad neighborhood. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2694 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.3.7 |
CMUBryan, I certainly don't buy into the "Real Detroiter" nonsense, I was simply pointing out that living Downtown/Midtown and the rest of the city are somewhat different experiences. I was also pointing out that Downtown/Midtown residents (sometimes) tend to have somewhat different viewpoints than residents of the rest of the city. | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 84 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.136.140.132 |
Thought I'd just toss out a couple tidbits to maybe make things interesting. FTA: Voytal grew up in Northville, a small, affluent town in Oakland County. I do believe that Northville is both in Oakland and Wayne Counties, why not represent it as such? I think people might come down here, encounter our car insurance rates first hand, and move out. You got that right. Moving from a decent Downriver suburb to Downtown is going to cost you about $300 extra per 6 months for basic PL/PD (that is, if you're a 24 year old white male). Which is kinda shitty considering my car will actually be more secure Downtown than in the burbs. I'm kind of surprised that the issue of jobs and in what city these people work in hasn't been brought up. Living and working Downtown must seem like such a better combination than living Downtown and working out in Oakland County. Perhaps some of these people do work Downtown but realized living in an "urban" area like B-ham or RO wasn't as practical as living in an urban area just a 10 minute walk from where they work. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4972 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
Especially when the majority of the City of Northville, and I believe the entirety of Northville Township, are in Wayne County... | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 2027 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Supersport who are you to decide who is good for the city and who is bad? How do you know if they will stay or go? Better what is an alley? Sporto you grew up in farmland so I don’t think you should be judging anyone. You are so ignorant about this city it is laughable. Sporto you are living the suburban life in the city the only difference is to feel safe you had to run out buy a gun and get two dogs. Let’s see you hangout with a bunch of middleclass white people. You hangout out at Bookies, the Cliff Belle and any other suburban type bar. Man that is keeping it real! The only differences between those bars and the ones in RO or Birmingham is the location of them. If downtown Detroit is Disneyland you are constantly standing in line waiting to get on a ride. Before you start judging others you should look in the mirror and realize you don’t know shit about this city. If you want some “street cred” I will make some suggestions for you on which neighborhoods you can hangout at. Hypocrisy-acha Detroit needs people with degrees and jobs who gives a fuck where they come from. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1000 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Only if you live in Oregon. | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 340 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.212.45.228 |
Amen | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 303 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 66.238.129.197 |
lol at susanarosa...seems to be the case, eh? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1808 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 70.225.112.48 |
Okay - my first post on this thread was one of sarcasm (and I hope Valkyrias received it as such). Now that the sarcasm is out of the way, I'll tell you how I really feel about the whole issue. I was born and raised in this city and continue to live in one of its neighborhoods. More importantly, I have no intention of leaving any time soon. With all of that said, I'm thrilled that there are folks like the ones featured in that article moving downtown. I'm reasonably confident that at least some of them will still be living here 20 or 30 years from now, but even if everyone of them leaves town as soon as they get married, I'd still be glad they were here. Quite frankly, I think SuperSport is an ass for the comments that he has made on this thread. With the hipsters moving in, a whole bunch of bars, restaraunts and retail store have opened up - creating jobs and tax revenue for a city that, quite frankly, is in desperate need of both. If they move out in a few years, chances are there will be a new 24 year-old recent college graduate who is eager to take their place. My only how the Kilpatrick Administration is treating everyone who don't live in a hip, trendy loft. I know several people who live in those places. I was talking to one of them and he told me about how a pair of police officers showed up when someone was stealing clothes from the laundry room in his building. The part that really blew me away was when he told me the day and time that all of this happened. It at almost the exact same day and time as when I was on the phone with a 9-1-1 operator. Two drug dealers were having an argument in front of my home and one of them had just pulled out a gun. I was told that DPD didn't have any officers available to respond. So to recap: someone stealing clothes from the laundry room in the New Center area warrants two police officers. Out in the neighborhoods, however, when two drug dealers are potentially shooting at each other with a bunch of kids close enough to get hit by a stray bullet - oh, sorry - nothing they can do about that. A domestic dispute that turns violent and some guy is trying to repeatedly run a pregnant woman over with his car? (A couple of weeks prior to the drug dealers). Oh, sorry - DPD doesn't have enough officers to respond to one that either. One drug deal after another? Sorry, there's nothing DPD can do about that, even when you photograph the drug deal happening and have the license plate numbers of the dealer and his customer. Prostitutes plying their trade within a few hundred feet of a schoolyard? Sorry, there's nothing DPD can do no matter how many times you report it. But they somehow find the resources to send a couple of cops when someone is stealing a pair of jeans from the laundry room of a new condo. All of this makes me wonder: precisely how many martinis do my neighbors and I have to order before Mayor Kilpatrick and Chief Bully-Cummings realize that we pay taxes, too? | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2696 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.10.16.94 |
"...my car will actually be more secure Downtown than in the burbs." Sticks, that is a pretty broad statement. | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 87 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.136.140.132 |
Metro, I'm not talking about anyone else's car but mine. Considering where it was parked in the burbs to where it will be parked Downtown, I think it will be slightly more secure. Okay, probably about the same when everything weighs out but still, $600 a year more for basic insurance? | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 262 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Welcome to the Terrordome, where insurance can make you think twice about owning a new car! | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10331 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
There is a term that Rasputin used to throw out all the time, "Circling the Wagons." This thread is a fine example of that. Any time somebody goes against what the majority on here BELIEVE or try to express their own opinions, they get piled upon. It's as if you are not allowed to share your take on topics unless you agree with the majority. If you do, expect everybody to call you an asshole or tell you why you are wrong. As MetroDetGuy pointed out, downtowners and midtowners tend to have a different perspective on things, while often representing just a small portion of Detroit's population, their voice on here is by far the loudest. I've never claimed that my comments are 100% accurate or by way of the law, they are simply my perspective. God forbid I share my views, for every goddamn suburbanite, college kid, or fellow downtowner who has a different opinion tells me how wrong I am. That is why some of us, even Lowell, appreciate what the likes of Rasputin and others have to say. As their input represents a very real perspective here in Detroit, even when they sometimes seem like they are way off the deep end. Though when he and others make these comments, the wagons are circled and everybody tries to prove the person wrong. I could probably come up with a list right now of at least a dozen, maybe even two dozen who lived here when I moved to town though have now moved on. As I stated, a steady transient population is NOT the solution to Detroit's problems. Have you noticed that Royce is no longer participating on this thread? If I was to bow out, as I said I was going to, then maybe you can all blow sunshine up one anothers ass and tell one another how your perspective is dead on, as it is in agreement with everyone else. So to clarify, for those who choose to just skim over the posts and then comment. People moving downtown is ALWAYS a good thing. Doesn't matter what walks of life they come from. However, most of these people are gone within 5 years, most having NEVER paid property taxes. They are still paying a city income tax, which helps offset some of the costs. Yet this does not solve the problem. Detroit needs home owners, plain and simple. This city will not survive without them. So could somebody PLEASE tell me how the city is suppose to rebound when the population continues to decline, the tax base is dwindling away, yet the same services need to be provided, and the new people moving here expect those services to be on par with where they moved from? Everybody tends to forget the impact that a dwindling tax base will have on the city. I'm not totally convinced that we will avoid a state take over yet. So with the accepted scenario that when people have kids, or maybe when they get married, that are pretty much expected to move out, can somebody tell me who will save Detroit? Who will remain? How high the taxes will have to be with a shrinking population and tax base? Come on college kid, have they covered that in your courses yet? This outta be good, as I'm sure 90% of the people who have responded will ignore my question, as they don't have an answer. | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1668 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
Property taxes account for only 6.4% of the city's revenue. Income taxes are 7.4% http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/bu dget/2006-07_Redbook/Financial Overview&Summary/Budget-in-Bri ef%2006-07.pdf | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2698 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.10.16.94 |
Sorry SS, but Rasputin's "input" doesn't represent "a very real perspective" on anything. His voice represents a small, uneducated (but thinks that he is), racist, separatist, violent (talk that most likely can't be backed up), phony claims fringe. His type is very harmful to Detroit, seeking to have the vast majority of Detroit suffer in order to hold on to some kind of radical ideology and lifestyle that he and his ilk indulge in. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1001 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Damn you Lurker with your statistics and facts! | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 304 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 66.238.129.197 |
"This outta be good, as I'm sure 90% of the people who have responded will ignore my question, as they don't have an answer." you said it right there...no one HAS an answer, yourself included!! you are entitled to your opinion, and like it or hate it, it is good that you are a staunch supporter of the city. however, some of of your views, as well as other's, are not very welcoming (and i do not think those opposing view points are in the minority on here either) and is NOT HELPING matters when people WANT to move here and have people belittle them for this or that and making them feel UNWELCOME. if you want citizens, great...but as you said yourself, you can't be choosey. there is very obviously a trend going on here, a trend that is continuing longer than i think most people thought it would. who knows what could happen in the next 5 years. you don't know if all these people are just going to take off, or their reasons for it if they do. but as i said before, i am pretty sure this trend is going to continue. i say take what you can get for now and hope for the best...i think that's really all you can do at this point. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4973 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
Did they cover sentence structure in your college classes, champ? | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 1054 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.77.163.16 |
I do not think you need to be as concerned with the people moving into lofts downtown then leaving as you do with people who already live here leaving due to shitty schools, lack of city services, etc... | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10333 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Which is EXACTLY why the city is on the verge of going into receivership. The city has lost about 1 million over the past 50 years, the population loss continues. How said that it has reached a level where upon the property taxes account for less than the city's income taxes. With even deeper cuts into the property taxes to retain population, and hopes to draw in more home buyers, the property will at least temporarily continue to drop. Thanks Lurker, your info pointed out that the tax base has shrunk to a level that is now below that of the income tax base. Thus why the city is on the verge of receivership. Merchantgander, Once again you prove you have nothing to offer aside from attacks....circlin' the wagons indeed. | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1669 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
Has it? In order to make a comparison, you would need another set of data. Does anyone know the city revenue breakdown from 1950? I would argue that several jobs have also left the city, causing the income tax to dwindle as much as the property tax. However, without any old budget information, I'm just talking out my ass, much like you. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1811 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 70.225.112.48 |
SS: You're welcome to make all of the posts you want, even if you're the only person on the planet who holds that opinion. The fact that you disagree with the majority of people on the forum, however, wasn't the reason why I called you an ass. It was this line in your opening post:
I know many of those people. Most, if not all of them, have been the victim of a crime or know someone who has. However, they're not leaving. You were an ass for assuming that they would and an even bigger one for making a statement like that.
If they're renting, they wouldn't have paid property taxes, at least not directly. Their landlord would have and that expense would be built into their rent. The ones who are buying condos, however, do pay property taxes. Many of them are part of an NEZ so they're not paying as much as they otherwise would, but it's still more property tax revenue than the city otherwise would have gotten. Plus, their presence downtown helps to bring new businesses; creating jobs and tax revenue for a city that desperately needs both. More importantly, they are the opening wave of new residents. If they leave in a few years, there will almost certainly be a brand new 24 year-old recent college graduate who will take his or her place, at which point a good chunck of the NEZ time would have burned off. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1678 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
The thing is, that this is what happens in every city -- NYC, Chicago, DC, San Fran, etc. There is a certain number of "homesteaders" that stay in the city their entire adult lives, partner up (or not), have families (or not), and then retire and empty nest it. Detroit has those people as well. Then, there is a much, much larger percetnage of people who graduate from school, move into the city, maybe partner up, maybe have that first kid, and then move on their way -- either to a further out neighborhood in a city, or to suburb. The difference in Detroit is that the number of the former is much, much smaller than in other cities. But until we fix the problems that keep "homesteaders" away -- i.e. crime, insurance, city services, taxes, schools, and most importantly jobs, we will never grow the number of "homesteaders" needed to change the cycle. So we can continue to attract the transients residents -- and we will -- but nothing will change until we can attract the long-term residents. So, in a round about way, as painful as it may be to admit, I am agreeing with SuperSport. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 2030 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Sporto that wasn’t an attack that was me pointing out your hypocrisy. The term “Real Detroiter” is bullshit that means nothing. A “Real Detroiters” is anyone that lives in the city. Sporto the problem is you have no clue what it is like living in one of neighborhoods because a “Real Detroiter” doesn’t enjoy growing up in poverty or having to worry that their children might getting shot coming home from school (Hate to tell you Sport your neighborhood is not the ghetto). The reason your opinion is wrong is because 99% of the people don’t think watching two bums jerking each other off, someone taking a shit in public or folks doing drugs in public is Detroit. That is the shit that sucks. I know everyone says you’re a good guy, you don’t know any better but I say worshipping all the shit wrong about Detroit makes you the problem not the solution. | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 305 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 66.238.129.197 |
thank you, dabirch, for putting it into perspective. and going back to ssport's question...who is going to save detroit? what can we do? is there anything we can do? another part of the reason why people are moving out or staying just a few years is that so much of the city's residents are extremely apathetic. they see how it's run and all the other negatives of city living and instead of asking 'what can we do?' and trying to do something to make it right, those who can afford to tend to move somewhere else because they know they can go to suburb and not have to think about anything. and i see a lot of that kind of school of thought on here. a lot of complaining and not a whole lot of action. i can't say for sure, though, because i don't know everyone, and there are many individuals i know personally who do a couple if not many things to try to make this city a better place for them to live. all this arguing of who should live here and why and that this person will probably leave because of this and we need people but we don't like those people is a bunch of crap and doesn't do ANYTHING to solve the problem. i understand the frustations and the uncertaintly and the 'i'll beleive it when i see it'...but again, that's exactly it. you don't really know what will happen. and as i said befpre, take what you can get, continue doing whatever it is you are doing to make this city better...maybe even do a little more than what you normally do...and hope for the best. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3514 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.74.2.102 |
Reading this thread, I find it ironic that just a couple of years ago Sport would have been leading the charge if someone else made the comments he did. I recall a conversation a few years back with Sport and Erikd, when they accused me of just being bitter and cynical about this new wave moving in and I expressed my skepticism of the longevity of their commitment. Living in the City has been for the most part a wonderful decision. Yet I can understand how people change their decision as their life changes. I even enjoy visiting old friends I met here in Detroit at their homes in the dreaded Oakland County. Hell, I moved to the East Coast back in 73 with no intention of ever returning to this area other than a short vacation to visit family and friends.That two week vacation led to the last thirty years making Detroit my home. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 523 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.209.147.12 |
I am certainly not blaming or faulting SS for the comments. He is most certainly entitled to his heartfelt opinion. And frankly, he does make some valid points to boot. There have been many jerk-offs and asses on this forum through the years, but I do not consider SS to be in that category. There have been knowledgeable folks who have shared a lot on this forum, but yet insult others at the same time - Skulk comes to mind. In this thread, SS sounded more concerned and pessimistic than condescending. To put it all in perspective; Detroit needs a variety of demographics. These loft dwellers are just one small segment. I would hope that the Detroit News do more in reporting families that move into the city such as those in EEV, or Rosedale Park, or West Village, or Greenacres, and so on. Those are the kind of stories that would spur more optimism. Of course, the Detroit News wouldn't want to do that, would it ? | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 833 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
Waiting for the Trainman threadjack in 5... 4... 3... | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1680 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
How many families do you, or anybody, know of that have, with school aged children, and no job requirement of living in the city, actually picked up and moved from a suburb to one of the aforementioned neighborhoods in the city? I know a lot of poeple who live here, who have moved here, who live in those neighborhoods, and I do not know one family that has moved from the burbs to the city for a reason not related to job requirementor expediency. Anybody else? | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 580 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
I am moving from my own air conditioned paid for house. Where I don't have to drop a dime on, to Woodbridge where I will be sharing a non air conditioned apt with 2 girls and paying rent. Just because I love being in the D and don't dig being north of 8 | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 342 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.246.19.24 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now THAT is keeping it real! | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 1065 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.39.161 |
Some executives (with families) at my brother's workplace in Southfield each bought houses in Indian Village not too long ago. They have good jobs, can send their kids to private school, and get to live in big, beaurtiful houses for a fraction of what they would cost in Oakland Co. And I don't see why that example should sound so shocking to people. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10334 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Do you need both of them? I have A/C.
That's the problem though, it does come as shocking. Not to mention, god forbid if they are....gulp...white people! From my short time here, that is what I have realized. That while Detroit is cool, it is short term for most. Once marriage and/or kids come into play, it's "SEEYA!" | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 657 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Like Dabirch first emphasized. A large number of people moving in are in the transitory catagory. All big cities are like this. In Detroit, I think we all can agree that this demographic is trending upward. Who cares if a person leaves in 4 years. By that time, two more might be taking their place. I was just having this conversation with a friend the other night. She mentioned the average stay for people moving into and then out of NYC is about 3-5 years. She put in 7 years there, and is now moving back to MI. She said all her NYC friends have moved on... So what's the big deal? | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10335 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
The big deal is here, we don't have the base that DON'T move on. That is all fine and dandy when you're city has a core group and a stable population, but unlike most other cities, we don't have that. Merchantgander, Never claimed I live in the straight up ghetto, but maybe your and my idea of dealing with problems is viewed differently. In the past two years I've had a neighbor have some contractors tools stolen, a mower stolen, A/C compressor for central air attempted stolen, a grill stolen from the same residence, a college kid jumped by three people leaving the gas station next to his house, and just this past week a guy mugged at gun point, a person a block up have an attempted break-in on their house, and now allegedly somebody shot at another neighbor last night at 2:30 am at the gas station. So, while that not be the straight up ghettohood, it's a fair cry from being all fine and dandy, and reason enough for me to feel I needed to take precautionary steps, such as getting dogs and a gun. So people can criticize all they want on how good or how bad a neighborhood is. I don't view mine as all that bad, but I also feel I needed to take steps to increase my sense of safety. As mentioned, I have zero intentions of leaving, thus my steps were taken to ensure I hang in there for the long haul, as we've all seen how good 911 operates around Detroit. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 193 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.228.111 |
so do you live on avery or commonwealth... | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 836 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
He lives at Glock and Doberman. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 194 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 206.208.94.60 |
is that right next to smith & wesson? | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 582 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
On Forrest between Avery and Commonwealth | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 195 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 206.208.94.60 |
Oh my we are neighbors! | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10337 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Avery...bordered by Glock and Doberman on each side. Chitaku, Welcome to our hood. You'll have to stop by sometime, I'm nowhere near the asshole in person. lol | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 585 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
I will, i have been hanging out in Woodbridge for about a year now and just love it. I also looked at apartments on woodward, 3rd and antoinette and on 2nd and willis, Woodbridge was by far my fav. I can even walk to United cafe now | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1710 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.147.45 |
Supersport, never intended to leave here having you receive the brunt of the criticisms and attacks. I really didn't have anything to add, and since everyone was attacking your comments, I figured that what I said didn't bother them as much. I do, however, want to add a few more thoughts on the article. First of all, I guess what bothered me most about the article were the kinds of comments made by those featured in the article. The young lady from Northville made a comment about Royal Oak essentially becoming boring because she kept running into the same people she attended school with at MSU. So, for me the thought was, "This is the reason for her wanting to move to Detroit?" Now, she's young and for young people the reasons for doing something may not be "Nietsche" in scope, but I thought this was a rather shallow reason for moving to the city. My other thought was, "Doesn't she realize that she'll probably be running into those same MSU grads at places she'll be going to in Detroit?" I have seen the make-up of people who hang out at the places she mentioned, like Proof and the Lager House. I don't see these places crawling with a lot of heterogenousness. Secondly, the comment made by the guy from Bloomfield Township about him needing a place with more "soul(referring to Detroit)," after living in a Birmingham loft for only a week, really bothered me like it did Supersport. It was like this guy was trying to convince himself that he needed to be a part of the chaos or upheaval that you find in many parts of Detroit. Now, I'm saying to myself, "Why would this guy want that when he could probably live crime-free in Birmingham?" Never did he say anything about diversity or interacting with people of color. Had he mentioned something to that extent, then I could understand his hasty decision to leave Birmingham and move to Detroit. But the question I ask myself about his decision is, "If he didn't like Birmingham and left in a week, then how long will he stay in Detroit, especially if some of that chaos reaches his front door?" Again, I welcome these young folks to Detroit. I just hope they will enrich this city by staying for awhile and not leave before the paint dries. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 526 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.209.147.12 |
Royce, good post ... good post. Exactly what went through my mind regarding the featured individuals from the article. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3513 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.229.123.181 |
Remember a while back when I started a thred about Detroit being yuppified? | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 196 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.230.186 |
So Supersport, since you are obviously part of the "entrenched" population, when are you going to do your neighbors a favor and open a bar in Woodbridge? We need one here badly. I have always eyed the little commercial building on Trumbull and Merrick. Maybe make it a reincarnation of Lindell AC. Woodbridge would be the closest thing Detroit could have resembling a normal residential neighborhood if we could just get rid of the damn barbed wire fortresses. I love it how they are selling those Bonnie Condos right next to the wonderful Value Dollar! | ||
Redetroit Member Username: Redetroit Post Number: 28 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
I hope we get more people like this moving into the city, WHATEVER their personal reasons for wanting to....it doesn't bother me. | ||
Scofield Member Username: Scofield Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Not to sound like a prophet of doom... but first time one of them white chicks get raped or their stuff gets jacked, they'll be back in "burbies" before you can say police. Trendy don't last in the ghetto for very long. take it from someone who knows. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 372 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
Ah yes, there's race. I wondered where it was all this time. Keep it real, Scofield. | ||
Scofield Member Username: Scofield Post Number: 5 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
 | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 197 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.230.186 |
white chicks white chicks | ||
Redetroit Member Username: Redetroit Post Number: 29 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
ummmmm....yeah.... | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 163 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.28.145 |
Reading through this thread's posts has left me pretty nauseated. The first post linked to a feel-good Detroit News article about a trend [of mostly educated young people taking an interest in moving into the city]. It is important that everyone realizes that what they read is an article. Most people on this forum do not know anyone from said article on a personal level, and should not assume they know anything about them from what they've read. Not everyone who moves to this city becomes a victim of violent crime, and I'm willing to bet that most of the people who move to the city have spent at least some time here, and aren't complete idiots [& are aware of Detroit's crime]. Also, it's ridiculous that some fourmers are referring to Downtown Detroit as a ghetto. Also!!! Someone above complained about police officers in his/her neighborhood not answering a call at roughly the same time that a call went through in New Center. While it seems impossible to tell for sure if the calls were truly simultaneous, it is important to remember than Detroit has several precincts. I think the concern that some people were [crudely] trying to voice was a fear that these new residents may lack street smarts. This is a valid concern, and all "street wise" residents should take it upon themselves to help educate and show around any newcomers and visitors they may know. Everyone who lives here should be happy that there might be an in-migration of people. More foot traffic means more shops, restaurants, jobs, and the like. Streets are also safer when there are more eyes upon them. I'm a little surprised that there have been unfounded complaints about this article, but the issue of gentrification hasn't come up. The article seems to be one sided in that it comes out in favor of gentrification. My only hope is that with this influx of people with money there is some effort among the city and its residents to keep things economically and racially diverse in Midtown/Downtown. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 733 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.42.133.85 |
What a great article. I really hope the city is finally at a tipping point. The idea of young or affluent people moving into Detroit is a godsend for the city, for the region, for the poor for the rich. It is unmitigated good and the fufillment of 40 years of dreams and effort by so many people who have tried to halt the city's inexorable downward slide. In regard to the comments that "the first time they get raped or robbed, they'll move back", here's a revolutionary idea: why don't we get crime in the city under control so nobody (or far fewer), newcomer or not, is a victim. Some of the people on this forum think the fact that they live near or around crime, decay, ignorance and poverty is come kind of badge of honor. It's not. It's a human catastrophe whose remedy depends in large part on attracting more money and educated workers into the city. Finally, anyone who thinks you can't build a city on "hipsters" (as I guess anyone with a post-high school education is labled on this forum) needs to buy one of those $1 Megabus tickets to Chicago, where you can look at a vast megacity of wealth and vitality with a huge and rapidly growing popluation of hipsters. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4974 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
You know, I hate to change the subject, but every time I read this thread title I keep getting this image of a really horrible deli sandwich made of organ meats. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1652 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.132.193 |
So that none of you think that I have lost my memory or abandoned my mantra you should be so lucky........ I don't live in Detroit.But I don't have to, to know that the one thing that will bring significant numbers of people(all kinds)back is a significant reduction in crime. Sports description of the various criminal activities in his neighborhood alone tells me that crime is still keeping people away and moving people away. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1005 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Uhhh, yeah. If this white chick got raped you bet I'd move so fast your head would spin. Same thing that if it happened in the suburbs. Why would anyone want to stay in the place the crime was committed, dumbfuck? It always concerns me when men throw the term rape around as easily as "jacked." | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2701 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 128.36.14.165 |
"a really horrible deli sandwich made of organ meats" = coney island (just the hearts tho ... none of them fancier organs ... just the hearts ...) | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 312 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 66.238.129.197 |
thank you, spaceboykelly, for reiterating and expounding upon my original comment. as everyone likes to say on here, you hit the nail on the head. since when do so many of you hold news articles to be 100% accurate? on many other threads i see a lot of "this wasn't written well...facts are missing...that's just completely wrong," yet when it comes to something that is a bit more subjective in nature, very clear sides are formed as to whether it is good news or bad news, and the assumptions are being thrown all over the place. and on this thread in particular, people are saying they KNOW these people featured in the article and their backgrounds and their true motives for moving to the city, but no one acknowledges it as being true, first hand info. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1718 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.135.5 |
Valkyrias, what's inaccurate? Are you saying that there's a possibility that those featured in the article didn't say the things that they were quoted as saying? This article contains facts, but no one is disputing these facts because the complaints aren't about the facts. The complaints are about the attitudes and/or comments of the people featured in the article. Valkyrias, do you want us to question whether or not the reporter quoted the interviewees correctly? Again, this article isn't about accurate or inaccurate facts. Therefore, there's nothing to debate here regarding whether or not the reporter got things 100% accurate. Accuracy is a moot point here. | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 314 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.47.103.87 |
no, royce, i'm saying that they are not telling the entire story. nor would i expect them to given the length of most articles you find in the paper, unless it's a major *newsworthy* topic. and i'm not disputing on whether or not what was said is true. i am sure that what these people said is genuine and came from the heart. what i am saying is that the article is not giving an accurate picture of who these people are and what they do for a living and why they are moving down here and their involvement or anything like that. it is a surface only article that provides a few facts about these people...and hardly enough information for ANYONE to pass judgement on them. as i've said about 3 times now, i think, you do not know these people...how can you, royce, or anyone else, make such assumptions based on quotes that could have had a WHOLE lot of other information before and after it? and let's not forget that the author can pick and chose what they want for news articles, and make it sound the way they want it to. one thing to prove my last statement...you made a comment in your last post about how neil greenberg moved to a loft in birmingham and moved out within a week, how he didn't bring up lack of diveristy as possible reason for wanting to move, questioning his loyalty and and that he might do the same once in detroit. the article actually starts of saying he bought his loft in b-ham a YEAR AGO, it then goes on to say that after a week he changed his mind, but that next month he will be moving downtown. so...where has he been in that year? i'm sure he stayed where he was until he had a chance to move. interesting what people can come up with when information is presented to them in such a way. and how do you know he didn't mention diversity? maybe he did, but the author chose to not put that kind of angle on the article. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10341 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
I think this thread can die now. The "Heart" moved here, but a week later they decided it wasn't "their" thing, so they put their loft up for sale and moved to the next trendy place. You can argue till you're blue in the face whether or not the info is accurate by today's standards, but five years from now it'll be factual. This coming from a newbie who's only been here 4.5 years, a home owner for only two, yet I've already done figured out the trend. Going right back to the beginning, what pisses me off most is they interviewed some tool that after one week in one suburb, he decided to move to another town. One week? Are you kidding me? If that doesn't say "Transient" then I don't know what does. THAT is what pisses me off most. The paper could have focused on several dozen others who showed more heart than this person. Hell, I could have gave them a list. Yet that isn't the way things work. Since most of the writer are suburbanites to begin with, the major papers, the Free Press and Detroit News, have lost touch with the city to the point that they are digging for stories. If we only knew, both of these people are likely friend of the writers, or put in contact via a friend of a friend. They sure as hell are friends of friends of the people I have met. These people have been pondering Detroit for a long time. They are the types to put their place in Bloomfield Hills up for sale a week after purchase and state they are moving to the most extreme polar opposite, Detroit. THAT is why I am offended by the article. This guy is not an example of the type of people that are moving down here. It is example of some extremist who feels they have to break from the norm and move down town. THAT is why myself, along with Royce, feel this guy won't last. I, like Royce, welcome the newbies as well as the yuppies, yet we both wish for them to stay. Somebody who buys and sells a place in a week and decides to move to Detroit? Yeah, he's a transient that will remain in Detroit until some place more trendy pops up. That's a fact, that's just the way it is. I, along with most others down here, don't want Detroit to become the next Chicago. Chicago's Michigan Ave is nice and all, but come on, it's hardly unique. Seriously, it has a Gap, an Old Navy, and every other big franchise that every other big city has. How is this a draw? I will gladly hop in my car and drive 10-15 minutes to these places if it means I can keep them from locating down here. I don't want Detroit, downtown, to become like every other big city with a star bucks, old navy, and every other national franchise. We are doing good as it is, rebounding while avoiding becoming a franchise city. While some may criticize this, I love it. It is one of the last things that keeps Detroit different. Sorry, I stand by my original statement, people like the guy from Bloomfield Hills who move after a week are exactly the types this city doesn't need. The girl, she'll have more staying power than he can dream off. Criticize all you want people, but the longer you're down here, the easier you can call out just who will move here and stay and who will be gone in a few years. That's just the way it is. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4976 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. I'm serious. "We want our city to suck" is basically what you're saying. You can't be serious. OK, keep your wig shops and beauty supply warehouses and empty storefronts, who needs more retail? Who needs stores people actually go to? While we're on the subject of Chicago, who needs functioning public transportation? Who needs economic growth? Yeah, Chicago really sucks, doesn't it? God forbid Detroit ends up like Chicago. Give me a break, Sporty. | ||
Hagglerock Member Username: Hagglerock Post Number: 270 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 12.214.243.66 |
posted by SSport: "The girl, she'll have more staying power than he can dream off." You just say that so she will stay in the D wearing only your t-shirt every morning. She's young and blonde, can't blame you. Actually the Aram, I feel the same way as sport, I can't stand Old Navy and their commercials make me want to kick my dog. (Message edited by hagglerock on July 20, 2006) | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10342 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Aram, I stand corrected. In the past, I thought for sure you'd move here after college. As it is, you see more likely to end up on Michigan Ave in Chicago. Tell me, since you seem to have it all figured out. If we have the whole Old Navy, Gap, Cheesecake Factory, how are we any different than any place else? Hell, how the fuck are we any different that any Detroit suburb? Thank God I talked with people within the city that actually are part of the development plan in the last week, and not some wannabe going to school at U of M. The people within the city have basically said that they are shooting for a "unique" Detroit, not a reincarnation of Chicago. In case you haven't noticed, Detroit is 82% black. The gap, old navy, and all those other bullshit chain places don't exactly rank high with them, nor do they rank high with me. It dumbfounds me how you think YOU know what Detroit needs. Just as OUTSIDERS seem to think THEY know what Detroit needs. You know what Detroit needs? Business in which it's 1 million people who inhabit the city will frequent, not the person that will visit for a baseball game or some other sporting event a few times a year. If you honestly think some trendy, cool/hip retail shop would make it in Detroit then you seriously need to quit hittin' the Mary Jane over at U of M.
As long as it's the one I just bought that simply says "FUCK THE SUBURBS," that's about as hot as it gets. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 709 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.61.194.237 |
In the name of our father ... amen | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 158 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 72.229.136.103 |
I'm just glancing the thread, but did you say you don't want an department store in Detroit? You don't want Detroit to become another Chicago..........??????Me either! boo hoo for progress. WTF 313 | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 272 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Wow SS, you got me with that last post. While some of these stores may not have the charm, it'll be great not having to drive to the suburbs to shop at these stores. The day downtown gets a Crate and Barrel, I will happiliy streak down Woodward. Not that anyone wants to see that. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1719 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.135.5 |
Valkyrias, you make some valid points. He could still be at the loft in Birmingham and is waiting to move next month to the Ellington. Then again he could have sold his loft and moved back with his parents or moved with his buddies who will join him at the Ellington. I'm not sure. Because of brevity and pressure to meet deadlines, newspaper writers tend to write in very clumsy ways. One point that I do disagree with you on is the idea that readers, like myself, can't pass judgements about the people featured in the article based on the quotes that they made. Maybe we didn't hear everything that they actually said, but what they did say has merit and it can't be ignored. Does an interviewer really get to know the applicant for a job in the short time that the interview is carried out? No. The interviewer has to make judgements on that individual to determine if they should get the job, even if they don't know everything about that person. Making or passing judgements is what we all do. That's why it's important that you choose your words wisely when giving an interview. You never know what someone's going to remember or, in the case of the article, what someone's going to quote you on for posterity. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10343 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Detroit HAD a department store, it was Hudson's. Large Department stores are a dying breed, how many have been swallowed up just in the past 10 years by other chains? How many are gone all together now? Go to any large mall and every few years it seems their largest anchors either close up shop and change names due to buy outs. I'd rather see Detroit expand it's unique clothing stores, and add other stores that fills the needs of the people, while avoiding too many chains. Whig shops, are you serious? I could be mistaken, but I think there is one, MAYBE two whig shops in all of the CBD. Considering whig shops tend to be more popular amongst African Americans, why should a couple of whig shops be of any concern? There can be equivalent stores to the likes of Crate and Barrel without being a Crate and Barrel. As it stands, aside from fast food places, there are very few franchise restaurants downtown. In fact, aside from the places like Jimmy Johns, Subways, etc, I can't think of a single restaurant that is a franchise. Oh wait, that Johnny Rockets place and Hard Rock Cafe. These chains are far and few and are what keeps Detroit different. I never said I didn't want to see Detroit filled with retail, let's just not make it like any other shopping mall in the metro region. People aren't going to drive 20-30 minutes in this region to go to the same shop at their local mall up the road. Sure, there are people downtown living as well as workers who would frequent these places, but there aren't enough paying customers to keep these places open. A few years ago while in Kansas City for work I got to talk to some coworkers from our plants in Ohio who were also there. At that time, I made mention of Detroit's lack of retail and clothing shops. This black man looked at me and asked "Are you crazy? They have some of the best shops around!" This guy and his wife drive up to Detroit every few weekends and hit up the clothing stores. Just because they aren't a draw for some of us (though I think I'd look pimp in a yellow suit with gator shoes!), doesn't mean it's not a draw to others. Detroit needs to plan carefully just what type of retail downtown needs, and I think the right people are on the job to make sure that happenes. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 145 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
There have been some really bizarre postings on this thread. Here is one: --In case you haven't noticed, Detroit is 82% black. The gap, old navy, and all those other bullshit chain places don't exactly rank high with them, nor do they rank high with me.- ----I hate to shake up your world but Black folks shop at these places as much as the rest of the population. Detroit is already unique. Another comment: The statement made above about judging quotes in articles is valid but I try to limit mine to matters of importance like are we going to war or other concerns. Why anyone would bother wasting time about a quote regarding someone moving to a new location is beyond me. How narrow-minded and spiteful is that??? Get a life!! | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
Detroit needs any retail it can get. Basically, it has none compared to other cities its's size. On a personal note, when the Best Buy opened up in downtown Baltimore---there was a general sigh of relief heard throughout the city. No more suburban car trips to find a mouse. And.... Barnes and Noble opening up quite a few locations eliminated those drives also. There are plenty of "unique" shops throughout the city. A few chain stores will not ruin Detroit's individuality. But above else, there will be no retail until many more folks move into the downtown and near- downtown locations. So---instead of fretting over who moves downtown---be thankful. | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1671 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
Perish the thought that Detroit would become anything like Chicago. Here's an excerpt from an article about the construction boom in Chicago:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c om/html/nationworld/2003084321 _skyscraper25.html Being like Chicago doesn't mean that we open up a Gap. Being like Chicago would mean that there would be a boom in construction, which leads to thousands of jobs and money being pumped into the local economy. Hell, here we get excited because a 10 story building is built in Campus Martius, and it doesn't even have full occupancy. One of its major tenants will leave behind a vacancy in another building that is only 15 years old. SS, here's an excerpt from your blog:
You wouldn't be excited if Detroit reached the point of Chicago, with 40+ buildings of 50+ stories going up in the past 6 years? I'm pretty sure all those buildings aren't the Gap, and I'm pretty sure they are all something better than a new parking garage for the BCBS building. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1720 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.135.5 |
Jjw, you took the time to respond to my post and to Supersport's, but to say that you try to limit your posts to "matters of importance" is a holier than thou attitude. You chose to respond to what we said. We chose to respond to what was said in the article and to comments that others have made on this thread. That is what's so great about this forum. You can say what's on your mind. The fact that you can't believe others would respond to something that you find to be so trivial is your prerogative. I guess those of us on the forum who take time to read these posts and respond to them "don't have lives." However, Jjw, you reponded to this thread and its posts. What does that say about your life?" | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 592 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
i'm moving today, watch for the bearded fellow lifting a huge chair and bed into the building on forrest around 7-8pm! | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
Royce--Please take the time to read comments carefully. I did not mention anything about posting on this thread. My comments were based on judging quotes in newspaper articles that I think are quite trivial. I now understand why you judge so quickly. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4977 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
Well, I guess I don't want to "keep it real" as badly as you do. It would be nice to spend my time wandering the streets of Detroit drunk off my ass after visiting the most bland bar I can find, buying "Fuck the suburbs" t-shirts, and being a general hardass on the internet. But why would I want to do that? It's already been done.
Well, those stores seem to be working just fine to bring investment to every other place on the planet- why not Detroit? I'm not saying that every storefront should be filled with an Old Navy or a Banana Republic or some such thing. But why should beggars be choosers? Would you honestly say no to a chain store that wanted to open in the CBD just because it ws too generic? Honestly, are you that starved for grittiness?
Well, enjoy more population loss. Unique is nice, but when you're closing your options because you -gasp- don't want to be like an already-successful city, you're going to get what you deserve. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 840 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
Supersport, you can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that needs development. And that development needs to be guarded by yuppies with money. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Royce? These yuppies have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You cry for the old Detroit and you curse yuppies like Greenberg. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Greenberg's move, while met with skepticism, probably saved lives. And yuppies' existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at cool hipster bars, you want Greenberg on that wall pushing up your property values. You need him on that wall. Yuppies use words like Old Navy, Gap and Cheesecake Factory...They use these words as the backbone to a life spent buying something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain gentrification to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very financial freedom it provides, then questions the manner in which these brave yuppies provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some khakis and a credit card and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think Detroit needs! | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1007 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
I just still think it's funny that Sport thinks black people don't shop at the Gap, Old Navy or Banana Republic. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1654 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.132.190 |
The flaw in sports sentiment is that aside from the national retail Chicago also has an abundance of unique and individually owned busnesses as well.Restaurants, clothing stores, hardware stores,antique stores, retail shops etc, etc, etc.And these are in the neighborhoods. Detroit was once much more like Chicago in that way.Detroit changed(not Chicago) and not for the better. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 841 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
Hmmmnnn... Black people don't shop at GAP huh? Taken from Kanye West's song "Spaceship" on the College Dropout album.
(Message edited by E_hemingway on July 20, 2006) | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 199 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 206.208.94.60 |
where do you shop at Supersport... Pure Detroit and National Dry Goods?? Or are you a Forman Mills regular? Why is it so bad to have corporate chain stores? Don't people make a city unique. With the amount of bums i see detroit must be the most unique place on the map! Those are some unique Mothers. | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1673 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
He shops at Meijer in the suburbs. | ||
Lurker Member Username: Lurker Post Number: 1674 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.196.220.198 |
Ya know, my little Meijer comment reminded me that the taxes that businesses pay brings in more revenue than some new people moving downtown. So as opposed to complaining about people who haven't even moved out yet (which is what you are doing - using this person's past pattern to complain about something they haven't even done yet), maybe you should do something more beneficial to the city, such as shop in it. | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 315 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 66.238.129.197 |
"Making or passing judgements is what we all do." that doesn't always make it right, nor should it prevent anyone from trying to find out more info to make a more informed decsion... much like with a job interview...which i cannot beleive you are comparing a news article (which as you noted, could have been clumsily written given deadline) to a one-on-one interview, that can last an hour or more, and even then the applicant might come back for a 2nd or even 3rd inerview...all for the sake of someone trying to gain as much information and perspective on that person in order to make an informed decision. i think the bottom line to everyone's thoughts here is that the city needs residents, regardless of who they are, where they come from, and their reasons for moving here. no one knows what will happen in 2, 3, 4 or 5 years with them or the city. if the economy will go down the shitter, if detroit blooms more in the next 5 years than the last 10, if the government will change, and so on. all i know is that this momentum needs to continue, this is definitely a make it or break it point...and ya can't afford to shun people based on a few quotes in an article like this. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2703 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.117.160 |
Wow Hemingway. The truth hurts. SS, what's so "unique" about "None of Ya Businezz" (on Woodward), "Ghetto Gear" (8 Mile), etc? You might want to get out of Downtown/Midtown and see all the Detroiters in the rest of the city's neighborhoods flocking to suburban chain stores (including Old Navy and Gap). Try telling people who are looking for jobs that the city doesn't need these chains. Try telling laid off police officers, EMS, etc (lack of services) how the city doesn't need the tax revenue from those chain businesses. Every other major city such as Chicago, Boston, and Seattle somehow seem to have maintained their individuality along with having chain stores. There isn't anything "unique" about record population loss, unemployment, poverty, crime, lack of education, etc. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 377 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
Paraphrase: "the lack of chain stores is what makes Detroit different." No, the lack of STORES makes Detroit different. The emptiness makes Detroit different. The limitation of shopping choices to dollar stores and fish frys makes Detroit different. And it's sad that people fight for that. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7546 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Not often does it happen so I feel compelled to say it. I agree 100% with Metro. Ouch. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4612 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 198.111.166.19 |
The Ghettoman's predictions and ethnic prejections are right after all. Due to gentrification. Lot's of hip cool white kids and other ethnic folks are comming back to Detroit to live in those megalofts and supercondos starting with the empty nesters. THE EMPTY NESTERS WHO MOVED TO DETROIT TO RAISE THEIR FIRST CHILD THEN AFTER THEY BEGAT ANOTHER CHILD THEY SELL THEIR SUPERCONDO OR MEGALOFT AND MOVE ON TO THE SUBURBS. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 661 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.20.140.8 |
Walgreens, CVS, Rite Aid, Borders, McDonalds, hmm those aren't chains... | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 662 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.20.140.8 |
Supa Sport done lost his mind... | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 814 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Interesting how I don't see to many comments from guys with families living in the Detroit neighborhoods. It seems most of you are living downtown and (or) are single. Its amazing how much money has been thrown at fixing downtown (since Coleman Young was mayor). All the while, the neighborhoods have been left to fend for themselves. A puny tax break is not going to bring a flood of new homeowners rushing to enhabit Detroit. Better schools, on time city services and less crime would do wonders for bolstering the city image. It would also help if its citizens would take responsibility to help clean up the city of criminals and low lifes. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 738 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.209.182.243 |
Supersport, You have some very interesting things to say, and I have struggled to see your worldview, but I think I now get it. I wonder if the city isn't big enough to accomodate but the mundane chains like the Gap and the more interesting stores. In the big, big picture, you are right. Look at Paris and San Francisco. Those places are not dominated by chain stores and they have a character and an allure as a result. I think your head and heart are in the right place, but I think as a strategic plan it's not workable. We won't go from here to Paris. I think the only viable options are (1) from here to the Gap, or (2) from here to further stagnation. I wish magically, you're vision were possible and we could create someplace unique and different, but I don't think it will work. Maybe we can have some sectors that reflect the values you aspire to and other sectors rooted in the mainstream commercial economy. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 386 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
See, this is what people miss, in my opinion. Other large cities like SF, CHI, NY, are filled with chains. You just don't notice them because they're everywhere else too; what you notice are the independent shops. Everywhere has chains, this isn't a bad thing. What we don't want is for them to dominate. Independent stores > Chains > Vacancy | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 512 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.246.29.185 |
Exaclty, I don't understand how anyone can say that becuase chains dominate a part of cities like Chicago or New York that they aren't unique places. Having a GAP downtown doesn't automatically turn us into Troy. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 202 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.228.190 |
Hey Ray.... Isnt there a GAP on the corner of Haight and Ashbury? How's that for Corporate symbolism...! | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 154 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
sure, a chilie's is better than an abandoned store front... however... in terms of making detroit attractive for tourism / living... what's better? 20 chilie's restaurants, or *10* slow's? do you know how far people drive to get to slow's? have you seen how nice the block has become / is becoming? | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 154 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
hehehe---detroit has plenty of room for both | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 852 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
Actually, Cheli's and Slows are much more similar than people on here like to admit. Both are quite popular family run businesses with their own little niche. Both did a fantastic job of renovating two beautiful historic buildings. They both add great character to their respective neighborhoods. The only real difference if the type of crowds they tend to attract (Hockeytown vs hipsters) and that Cheli's has two locations while Slows has one. Otherwise, they're basically the same type of small business. I say the more unique, locally owned places like that in the city the better. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1363 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
There is one other minor difference: the food at Cheli's is terrible and the food at Slow's isn't. But that's just a minor detail, they are practically the same! | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 390 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
I think he said "Chili's" not "Cheli's" And to that question, yes I'd rather have 10 Slows than 20 Chilis, but the awesomeness of the hypothetical 10 Slows tempers a bit when there's 5 abandoned storefronts in between each of them because we forbid anybody that has a headquarters somewhere. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2720 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.10.24.148 |
...And citizens looking for work as well as the city's tax rolls would rather have 20 Cheli's (or Slows or anything else for that matter). | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 156 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
you guys are right... beggars can't be choosers.. however... look at the slow's block 5 years ago, now, and predict how it will look five eyars FROM now... now picture if a CHILI'S (not Chellie's [that IS different]) moved into the same place... no change... ONE restaurant... instead we will soon have a VITAL block... much more of a "chain" reaction with the NON chain store (clever, eh?) | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 395 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
I see your point, but you can't say that, because you have no evidence to back up your point that the same thing wouldn't have happened if an Olive Garden opened there. I would venture to guess that any well-attended, popular restaurant opening in that space would have done the same thing. PS. I am not advocating an Olive Garden in Corktown, nor discounting the success of Slow's. |
