  Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 85 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.95.239.153 |
Since we've spent alot of time on how to renovate downtown Windsor; how about we discuss how downtown Pontiac or Flint would be renovated. Neither of these cities is nearly as strategically important as Windsor. How would you attract people to these cities with harsh stigma's attached to them. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 606 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 71.213.230.209 |
Free beer??? | ||
Dtrain Member Username: Dtrain Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.108.76.88 |
Arts, Beats and Eats does a pretty good job of attracting people to Pontiac. | ||
Yaktown Member Username: Yaktown Post Number: 20 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 70.236.203.57 |
Dtrain, by "attracting people" I think Milwaukee was more in the vein of people moving in. (Am I correct?) Seemingly, Pontiac has plenty of downtown activities on the weekends courtesy of the nightclubs and restaurants. There used to be a restaurant downtown that was a popular lunch spot, especially their sidewalk dining when the weather was right. Unfortunately, they had to cut that because of the panhandlers approaching restaurant patrons. ArtsBeatsEats does indeed attract a lot of people, the problem is how do they keep them there. Obviously, money is the problem. Or should I say, lack of it. Police force has been laid off...the city dragged its feet too long on the Silverdome deal, now they have to start from scratch. There was some talk a few years ago about abolishing the 1% income tax for residents as soon as the Silverdome money came in. I don't think that's going to happen. One facet Pontiac has going for it is its location. It's the center of Oakland county and is easily accessible. I'm not sure of the unemployment figures but it's always had places to work. The county government is located here, we have 3 hospitals, the USPS is building a HUGE new distribution facility, GM's Metal Fabricating Division just recieved money for upgrades, GM Powertrain is adding jobs. I think one way to attract people is to upgrade city services and clean up the blight. Focus on the afforadable housing, my neighborhood has sprouted dozens of brand-new homes in the last 3 years. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 367 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
For Pontiac how about moving some of the social services buildings off the main drag? Nothing scares "Out of towners" more than 50 homeless people(I realize they're not all homeless) circling their cars at red lights. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1372 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
As te resident Flint expert here, I would say Flint is on its way to reviving its downtown. There have beenn several new businesses opening up in the past few years and Loft apartments being put into several buildings on Saginaw St. Rowe Inc. is moving their headquarters into three renovated buildings that are currently undergoing construction. It will house hundreds of employees loft apartments on the top floors and a steak house and brew pub on the main floor and a jazz club in the basement. The bus station is undergoing a 6.5 million renovation. First street Lofts constructon is progressing rather nicely. 16 loft apartments in the upper floors of the building housing Republic Bank. The exterior is being restored to what it looked like when it was built in the 20's. The terra cotta arched windows were removed from the first floor and mezzanine and replaced with a more modern granite surface. Looks awesome now. I talked to the architect and they are using a glass fiber reinforced plastic to reduce the cost. It looks beautiful, they are also replacing the cornice that had been removed. Talk is progressing on Student housing for U of M-Flint going into the now vacant Durant hotel. The flop house Berridge Hotel has been purchased by the Land Bank and will undergo renovation into lofts after alternative housing is found for its residents (Good Riddance). The Crim Fitness Foundation is creating a new headquarters in the Land Bank building (Former Hughes and Hatcher), much larger than their former headquarters in the Mott Foundation building. The former Hyatt Regency is being resold to a National Hotel Chain and will once again provide downtown with a premier hotel and convention center. The religious group that owned it the past few years took great care of it but has not used it to its potential. Several buildings have undergone facade restoratons and upgrades and several more will receive them before the end of the year. With several new restraunts on the way and new residents moving in Flint is on its way. BTW these are just off the top of my head there are other projects which I have not mentioned. Pics will be posted soon of the mentioned projects. | ||
Missnmich Member Username: Missnmich Post Number: 542 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.32.180.75 |
"The flop house Berridge Hotel has been purchased by the Land Bank and will undergo renovation into lofts after alternative housing is found for its residents (Good Riddance). " God help that you never find yourself down and out. The mercy we show, is the mercy we shall receive ... | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1373 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
ummm, these people are down and out because of their own choices. THis building is full of prostitutes and drug dealers with in a few blocks of an elementary school. Not exactly the population I feel all that sorry for. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 91 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.95.236.225 |
I meant things like how to get people to move back to the city center and neigborhood's around the downtown. I'm glad to hear about some development in Flint. I've been to Flint twice (not recently), and seen Roger and Me so I guess the city can't be much worse than it was in the early 90's. I think Flint should work with creating a new city. There is so much urban prarie and abandoned houses that the city could encourage developers to build new houses and call Flint a cheap exurb. That would definately take some flavor out of the city, but it would bring money and retail back to the city. Pontiac can do the same thing. The suburbs around it are so valueable that there wealth should eventually seep into the city somehow. This may expell the city's poor population in the long term, but you have to crack eggs to make and omlette. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1374 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
Rowe Building What it will look like.  What it did look like.  What it does look like.  Original alley view.  Progress in the alley.  CUrrent view in the alley.  | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1375 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
Milwaukee how the hell else would you get people move there without development? Your question essentially is asking about developments. There is no where near as much urban prarie in Flint as you would think. Outside of Buick City there are only a few blocks here and there that are prarie like, there are quite a few abandned homes but many are prime for rehab. | ||
Dillpicklesoup Member Username: Dillpicklesoup Post Number: 169 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 64.7.187.170 |
Flint is not quite the dreg you may think it is- the downtown area sure looks a lot better than Detroit's downtown- There is a first class cultural center to include the Whiting, the Flint art museum, a planetarium, fabulous library, car museum, etc.- Flint even has a market similar to Detroit's with a very nice restaurant- people don't even get mugged at the market in Flint- Also U of M flint and other good schools- Why you can even canoe the Flint river- I've taken many Detroiters and suburbanites to Flint and they are pleasantly surprised- So- don't feel too badly about Flint- Sure there are plenty of areas that could be improved- but, most of Detroit could be improved- | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1376 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 204.39.226.44 |
View of the Rowe building before they started work.  A Changing Block.   Two buildings awaiting facade improvements. (New facade for the white tile building and new storefront for Flint City T-Shirts.)  | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1377 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 204.39.226.44 |
Plus if you are using Roger and Me as a depiction of life in Flint then you are sadly misinformed. There is a reason why most of us up here dislike that ignorant prick. A lot of that movie was fabricated (including the channel 12 newscast) and the real stuff from the movie (the rabbit lady) are not the morm up here. Moore would not even attend the new annual Flint Film Festival put on by the Greater Flint Arts Council without an exhoribinent fee which thankfully they wouldn't pay. They were the ones who funded the movie Roger and Me. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 94 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.95.238.74 |
I know that if you want people to move back to Flint, that you have to invest in the infastructure and security. Trust me, I know I've only seen the worst of the city. I'm sure for the most part that the city is doing as well as it has been. I wouldn't want someone to drive through the worst parts of Milwaukee and say wow what a shithole how can they fix this place. So Gumby, I'm sorry if I offended you. I want Flint to succeed to I'm just not as well informed on the state of the city as you are. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1378 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 204.39.224.249 |
Don't worry I don't offend easily, and you really said nothing that should have offended. I am just really passionate about this city and I might come off a little fanatical at times so bear with me. I truly think what they are doing in downtown Flint right now is essential for the revival of the city as a whole. I know little things like jobs and income are essential as well but I think they are doing the best with what we got here. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 17 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 24.180.71.146 |
Milwaukee, seeing Flint 15 years ago and watching Roger & Me will not even give you the slightest grasp on the Flint of today. There are some great things happening, most of which have already been mentioned. Flint does have a lot going for it, if it can manage to use them to it's advantage - UM-Flint and the Cultural Center come to mind. And some of the plant closings could be blessings in disguise - how many cities have a tract of vacant riverfront land within minutes of downtown? (the old Delphi West (Chevy-in-the-hole) land) While I'm thrilled to see these developments, and hope to see more soon, what scares me is the lack of jobs in the flint area. thousands of high-paying GM/Delphi jobs have left the county since the early 90's when you were here, and thousands more are on their way out. and the only things replacing them are walmarts and restaurant chains. Gumby, thanks for the pics. even though i live only a few miles away, i don't get down there as often as i'd like, but i've been trying to follow that as close as i can. i just hope it's successful. as for the hyatt/riverfront/whatever hotel name it will be, does anyone really think it will survive as a hotel? it's always seemed like it's having problems, regardless of ownership. i've always thought it seems to be perfect for dorms for UM flint. even though i'm thrilled that they're looking at renovating the durant hotel, the hyatt always seemed like the natural choice, given its location and condition. and gumby had it right - most of us around here are not too fond of michael moore. he's done nothing for flint. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1379 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 204.39.224.249 |
Personally I think the Hyatt would be perfect for mixed use. Part Hotel, part Condo, part office with restraunt and convention center on the ground floor. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 615 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.22.59 |
People shouldn't get false hopes that UM-Flint will build dorms downtown. For fifty years it has been overwhelmingly a commuter campus, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. There's been too much pressure put on the university to be the savior of the downtown, while in reality it's essentially a self-contained institution. A handful of shops and restaurants are used by students, faculty and staff, but they're mostly in the UM-owned University Pavilion. I also don't see why another hotel would make sense in the Character Inn. It was the Hyatt Regency, the Radisson, the Ramada, the Riverfront Inn. They all failed. The Holiday Inn Express or whatever it's called by 475 and Longway seems adequate to take care of downtown's lodging business. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 616 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.22.59 |
If there's a future for the Character Inn, it's in residential. As far as conventions in downtown Flint-- That has been tried and it failed. The various properties that have managed the Hyatt building over the years have always struggled to book conventions there. Why would it be any different now when there are tens of thousands of less residents and jobs in Flint than when the Hyatt was built? Whatever conventions come to Genesee County flock to places like the Holiday Inn on Hill Rd. Incremental improvements like the lofts and the Rowe Engineering move-in are great. But after living in Flint (yes, in the city limits) from the time I was born to when I was 20, I can tell when a project is another cure-all, pie-in-the-sky white elephant. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 18 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 24.180.71.146 |
I agree on the incremental improvements being what we need. Fortunately i think we all learned a lesson from autoworld, and that's not to put our faith in one huge project. it may have taken 20 years for it to fully sink in, but it looks to be finally taking hold. personally, I'd much rather see some of the older commercial buildings being converted into lofts rather than see the downtown residential demand sucked up by the hyatt. those older buildings have a lot of character, whereas the character inn (ha ha) has none, other than typifying 80's architecture. i'd hate to see those buildings rot away because they can't find a use for them, while anyone interested in living downtown is living in that bland building. (granted, i've never been inside - it could be gorgeous, i wouldn't know. i don't really need to stay in a hotel 5 miles away!) as for the argument against dorms downtown, they've made it clear they ARE interested (although they don't want to operate them, they want to work with a 3rd party), and there are plenty of students that have expressed interest. The main reason the current students only use a few shops and restaurants is because they are only on campus or even downtown for a few hours a day. once you have a sizable base living there, verses visiting, then you will see them frequenting more restaurants and shops in the area. and no, it won't be the savior, any more than autoworld, water street, riverfront park or the hyatt regency was when they were built. But it definitely will help, just like the rowe building and the first street lofts. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 96 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.95.235.157 |
Flint seems like it's in a good location for future development. If the Detroit suburbs keep growing out they will eventually conect with Flint. If you can get people living in Flint, you are bound to have more county money to make improvements. The city losing the factories is a curse and a blessing, it would have been better if it was a more gradual decline in factory jobs than the huge loss all at once. I beleive in the theory of attracting creative people to a city to revive it. There should be an appeal to artists that can't afford to live in Chicago or New York. We have good architecture, a university, and we're an open city. Come take our run-down homes fix them up and do want you want, just come to Flint. The city could subsidize the idea someway. If there was suburban development then the city could allow lower taxes for the city, another way to people to move in. Despite the loss of population in alot of northern cities to the southwest. Flint, Detroit, Pontiac, Lansing all have some thing Phoenix and Albuquerque don't, water. A natural need for water is going to stunt growth in the southwest sooner or later. Flint has a tough campaign to fix it's image around the nation. I know it was a great city and will be again someday, but I don't think anyone here would question whether or not there is a stigma attached to the city's name. The thought of urban decay, poverty, and job loss usually come to mind with people who actually know where or what Flint is. I also believe that Pontiac will be renovated far before a wide scale redevlopment of Flint happens. The city of Pontiac is surounded by rich suburbs in one of the richest counties in the nation, so that means sooner development, but I beleive Flint will one day be restored to it's former glory. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 1102 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
<------- Livedog2 | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 97 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.95.235.167 |
What does <------- meen? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1380 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
There is most defanitly a stigma attatched to Flint but thanks to successful events (Back to the Bricks car show, Crim Festival of races, Fireworks) every year, the top notch cultural center, and renovation of downtown buildings we are starting to see that stigma erode a little more each year. Even my grandpa who was a City cop through the 70's (he retired after there was a shootout between two officers in police headquarters, plus he was the arresting officer of our current mayor back when he got his felony record) has come around and believes that this revival is going to happen. Oh and the dorms are coming to U of M-Flint it is just a matter of finding a developer. Ann Arbor does not want them to be ran by the university so they are side stepping that issue by pursuing a privat 3rd party. While it is a commuter campus it isn't typical of most commuter campus. The student body is rather young on average and there is a large interest in a truecollege experience. Not to mention a growing international student population who need a place to stay. Plus they are adding new grad programs all the time so they will be tapping a whole new demographic. A Doctorate of psychology (PsyD.)cprogram is in the works and will likely begin in fall 2008 unfortunatly a little too late for me. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1577 Registered: 10-2003 |
This upcoming event might be of interest to those watching Flint's downtown development: What's UP Downtown Tour & Applewood Event -Saturday, September 30, 2006. Depart from Applewood Parking Lot Saturday 10:00am to 12:00pm. Step inside a "loft-style" apartment, get details of the exciting developments taking place in downtown Flint, and experience the beauty and potential of the Capitol Theatre. After the tour enjoy the Applewood Fall Harvest Festival. There is no cost to participate in tour, however space is limited so reservations must be made in advance by calling (810) 513-0661. Festival Hours: 10:00am - 5:00pm September 29 - 30 Applewood Fall Harvest Festival: Tasty heritage apples, historic Applewood setting, entertainment, activities and more! For more information, call 810) 233-3835 M-F 7AM-3PM. Flint has a wonderful automotive history that is worth exploring. We spent about 4 hours there yesterday, and there are still a number of additional sites to visit another time. I expect that we will see a lot of progress made on Saginaw St. by then. Gumby: We didn't expect to spend that much time in Flint yesterday, and we weren't sure of when we would arrive, so didn't try to get in touch. But we would love to do so for our next visit. Drop me an email at dkosh @ msn.com. | ||
Rossco Member Username: Rossco Post Number: 39 Registered: 07-2006 |
Halo Burger on every corner. | ||
Rossco Member Username: Rossco Post Number: 40 Registered: 07-2006 |
Autoworlds 2 & 3 | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 130 Registered: 08-2006 |
Gumby, what are the nicest parts of Flint. What are the coolest neighborhoods or the area's with some good old houses? any good parks to goto? | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1585 Registered: 10-2003 |
Calling Gumby!!! | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 142 Registered: 08-2006 |
"Gumby, what are the nicest parts of Flint. What are the coolest neighborhoods or the area's with some good old houses? any good parks to goto?" Just so anyone who wants to say I'm a rascist knows, by asking this I'm not saying where is the whitest part of town or the area without black people. I just want to know where the nicest area's are for architecture and parks. Aside from that I would like to know about the college's in Flint. I know there are more than the university of Michigan branch school. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1345 Registered: 10-2005 |
you shouldnt have even brought that up, Milwaukee | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 299 Registered: 12-2005 |
Milwaukee, The best way to answer your subjective question is to go there and find out for yourself. As far as other colleges, Flint has been the home of General Motors Institute (now Kettering University) since 1919. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1389 Registered: 11-2003 |
Well, that all depend on what you consider nice parts. If you are into archetecture then downtown is for you. With the Art Deco "highrise" Mott Foundation Building (same designer as the Guardian Building I believe), the John Eberson Capitol Theatre, North Bank Center, Durant Hotel (currently vacant), the deco Paterson Building, and various other buildings, I could go on but I would never stop. For a really nice neighborhood (Working on obtaining the names of the nieghborhoods in Flint for my website that I will link at the end of this post) to live in with great archetechture just south of Mott Community College there is a nieghborhood with several large mansions. Also there is a neighborhood over looking the Swartz Creek Golf course just south of Miller Rd on the southwest-side of the city (it is where the current mayor lives). Mott Park is also a rather nice neighborhood, (from my website)
Another great neighborhood is the College Cultural Center. (Also from my website)
The college Cultural Center also features Woodside Church, designed by the designer of the St. Louis Arch, Eero Saarinen (used to be be Baptist but because they are gay friendly...First one in the state to be disaffiliated.) http://www.woodsidechurch.net/ Here is a thread that includes a couple of pics. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/11557/25774.html?1092286 072 There are some really nice parks up here as well (there is an extensive list on my site with pictures of each park coming soonish). Kearsley Park is probably one of the most historic parks in the city, closest thing we've got to Belle Ilse. Riverbank Park Downtown can be a little sketchy in parts with ample hiding spots for homeless people. I like Willson Park located on the grounds of U of M Flint, it was the site of the grounds of former michigan govenor Henry Howland Crapo. Also McFarlen Park in front of the Durant is pretty nice. . Also while not with in the city limits Crossroads Village which opened in 1976 is our small version of greenfield village. I love Crossroads for many reasons but mainly because I got to spend a lot of my childhood their. My Grandfather was a park ranger when it opened up until the mid 80's and he was known as "Marshall Al" he got to dress in period marshall's clothing, only difference was unlike everyone else their he had a real gun which led to a tense moment when he decided to take an impromtu train ride forgetting about the staged robbery they had every ride. Because his gun was real he had to hide his badge so people on the train didn't expect him to "protect" them from the robbery. Also we have a great Nature preserve (For-Mar). Anything else wou want to know? My website. http://homepages.umflint.edu/~ kesherma/ If you type Enjoy Flint into google it is the first one that shows up... Yeah I am that good. (Message edited by gumby on September 21, 2006) | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1390 Registered: 11-2003 |
Flint has several colleges. U of M-Flint http://www.umflint.edu Mott Community College http://www.mcc.edu Kettering University http://www.kettering.edu Baker College https://www.baker.edu/departme nts/admissions/flint.cfm Davenport University http://www.davenport.edu/tabid /311/default.aspx | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 146 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks Gumby, you answered pretty much every question I ever had about Flint. You've really got me interested in Flint and if I'm back in Detroit, I would definately like to go up to Flint and see it myself. Thanks again | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 45 Registered: 03-2006 |
Flint is not going to be getting better anytime soon despite the efforts downtown. With the Delphi / GM buyouts everyone is leaving. You cant sell a home in the area, nobody is coming here to live. The one thing that is helping out downtown is the campus of UM. There is talk of transitioning from a commuter school to having dorms in the future, this would help. You need people in downtown first. Somebody on here said Flint's downtown is much nicer the Detroit's. Thats insane, I have lived in Flint my whole life. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1391 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hey, how about I piss in you cereal too, Kenp. I don't beleive it will be an easy process but as downtown gets nicer the surrounding neighborhoods will start to follow suit. Yes the housing market sucks right now but that just isn't a Flint thing, it sucks everywhere right now. Yeah the buyout thing sucks but there are still people working there at greatly reduced labor prices (but still livable wages).I too wouldn't say that Flint's downtown is much nicer than Detroit's. Less to do to bring it back at a lot cheaper cost? yes. Also I would say it is quite a bit safer as well. No one yelling BANG! at you either as you make your way around.  | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 46 Registered: 03-2006 |
Im a Flint supporter, not trying to piss in your cereal. Never joined this link before due to its non Detroit topic. I will buy you a beer at the Torch and we can hash it out there | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1392 Registered: 11-2003 |
Sounds good to me. BTW the piss in the cereal comment was meant tounge in cheek. Sorry if it sounded more serious than I meant it. I am very sarcastic which doesn't translate well over the internet. BTW have you ever checked out the site www.urbanflint.com There is a really good forum there that I participate in as well. Always good to see new faces over there. It gets kinda slow there at times because the core group of posters is fairly small right now. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10650 Registered: 10-2003 |
Is the Dayton Family still around? (straight jammin' to Flint Town as I type this) | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 147 Registered: 08-2006 |
Gumby, I just got to your site. I really like it. Great pictures. Downtown Flint really looks pretty good. So what do most people in Flint do for work? Is it a service based economy now or is it still heavilly industrial. I would think that the new string of plant closings would just hurt the city more, but it seems to be doing alot better. Plus, could you tell me some of the best restaurants in Flint, not fancy stuff just the best food. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1393 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks for the kudos on my site. It is still a work in progress as you can tell but I think it is coming together nicely. I am adding pics I took today of Kearsley Park as we speak. Should be up in a few minutes. Kearsley Park is our answer to Belle Ilse, as I mentioned before. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1394 Registered: 11-2003 |
Most of the downtown pics on my site are a couple of years old. I will be updating them soon to chronicle the changes that have been happening. The job market is still heavily manufacturing based but is slowly becoming more diversified. There are a lot of great restaurants in Flint. Downtown: Bailiwick Pub and Grill Battiste's Temple Dining Room - In the basement on the Masonic Temple Brown Sugar Cafe - Great little coffee shop Churchill's Food & Spirits Mike's Deli Express - Soooo much better than the nearby Subway in the University Pavillion The Lunch Studio - www.thelunchstudio.com/ The Torch Bar & Grill - Best Burgers anywhere! Rolls-R-Ready - The owner has a masters degree in pastrys. And don't forget Halo Burger - Best fast food restaurant around - www.haloburger.com/ Near Downtown: The Good Beans Cafe - www.thegoodbeanscafe.com/ La Familia(Something like that) - Good tacos on Fifth Ave. near Hurley Hospital Near Flint: Italia Gardens - Great Italian food located near the mall (Used to be located near downtown) Of course all of the chain shit is located near the malls as well. You can find me serving at the Miller Rd. Applebee's. Really putting that newly aquired bachelors degree to use. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1395 Registered: 11-2003 |
I highly recomend all the restaurants listed above, the downtown ones were what got me through college. Because of that damn Applebee's job I am back to having short hair again, eventhough the women are allowed to have ponytails while they work. Corporate bastards. Oh yeah, the Kearsley Park pics are up now. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1590 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gumby: What say ye about The White Horse Tavern? We had breakfast there last Saturday. The "build your own" omelettes were among the best we've ever had!! What do you know about the history of the restaurant or site? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 148 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks, for the restaurant information. I just looked at the Kearsley Park photo's. It looks really nice. I really like the old bridge over the creek. Does Kearsley Park have a golf coarse, I was trying to figure out what that big grass field was, it looked well maintained so I thought it was a golf coarse. I'm excited to see your new downtown photo's. I really like Carriage town too, it looks really nice. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1397 Registered: 11-2003 |
Kathleen, I completely forgot about the White Horse. I have never actually eaten there but have heard great things about it. Also, Tom Z's Coney Island (Flint's Original) downtown is really good. Big Al's just north of downtown on MLK has really good BBQ, even though the guy who owns the building that the restaurant is in is a real dick head (he is my friends landlord and is a real racist jerk as well as a slumlord, my friend still has no refridgerator and the stove is still not hooked up 6 months later). Kearsley Park does not have a golf course. The big grass field is just open space, they take really good care of it, and while I was out there people were sitting in the parking lots in their cars watching over it so I think it is fairly secure as well. Carriage Town has potential but is still really rough. My friend lives there and has had to call the cops several times because of a crack head who has tried to break into his house. Plus their are several abandoned buildings and the apartment complex just up the street has several drug dealers living there. It is the hang out place for crack heads and other lowlife characters. The history of the neighborhood is vast though. It is the oldest neighborhood in Flint and was the home of many early automotive figures. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 149 Registered: 08-2006 |
Flint really seems to be getting better, but they definately need some better hotels. For the metro area and for downtown. I saw that the old Hyatt was the character inn, so I looked up the character inn. I can easily say that I would never stay there. Do you know of any plans for new hotels downtown or so better options in the area? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 150 Registered: 08-2006 |
Flint really seems to be getting better, but they definately need some better hotels. For the metro area and for downtown. I saw that the old Hyatt was the character inn, so I looked up the character inn. I can easily say that I would never stay there. Do you know of any plans for new hotels downtown or better options in the area? | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1596 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gumby: Please drop me an email (see my above posting from September 17) so that we can get in touch the next time we head up to Flint. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 19 Registered: 07-2006 |
Milwaukee - The Character Inn has been or is in the process of being sold, and i imagine it won't keep its, uh, uniqueness anymore. thank god. while i don't know particularly what's in the city itself, there are at least 5 on hill road, mostly around us-23. (holiday inn, courtyard, residence inn, americ inn, and over by 475 is wingate). To the east there's a comfort inn in davison, at m-15 and I69. all of these are within probably about 10 minutes of downtown via the freeways. i'm not sure when the comfort inn was built, but all the hill road ones have been built in approximately the last 10 years or so. the grand blanc area is really where things are booming in genesee county, and most of these were built with that in mind. i know another hotel is being built near holly and 75 in grand blanc. so far as downtown itself, the hyatt/radisson/riverfront/char acter inn is probably the best, although i'm fairly certain it's always struggled, hence the reason no other hotels have built anything downtown. i think there's a holiday inn express around there though... don't take this as a complete list by any means. i know i've missed some that i probably drive by every day. most of these i just remember watching them build. plus, i rarely venture out of the southeast portion of the county anymore, so there are probably other options around. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1398 Registered: 11-2003 |
The Holiday Inn Express is at 475 and Robert T. Just nort of downtown. (Robert T./5th Ave. is the northern most boundary of downtown) Like scottr said the Character Inn is in the process of being sold to a national hotel chain so the religious group will be out of there. The inside is really nice for 80's architecture and I actually like the look of the building unlike everyone else, but that is just my opinion. We are actually losing a downtown hotel soon. The Berridge Hotel is going to be turned into condos by the Land Bank. This is good news because it is full of drug dealers and prostitutes, kind of a "Last Chance Inn". | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 634 Registered: 11-2003 |
The Holiday Inn Express was originally a Hampton Inn, built circa 1986. There were some issues with the construction of it affecting a Native American burial site. The "Voyager Inn," later Holiday Inn (or was it the other way around?), a substantial mid-rise, was built in the '60s and stood kitty-corner from the Durant Hotel. It deteriorated into some sort of halfway house and was torn down around 1991 or so. | ||
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson Post Number: 28 Registered: 06-2006 |
You know, I have read this section about Flint with great interest. You see, I have lived here for about 24 years. I am located on the south side, the Atherton Park area. I have seen so much development in and around downtown since I have lived here and I wonder when is the city going to discover the south side? We have a viable neighborhood with many businesses, residents and tax payers. I thought years ago when our city council representative, Scott Kincaid, was voted president of the city council we would start to see some inprovement around here. I guess there have been too many other pressing issues for to attend to. Like the budget and council trying to route out the mayor, than to be concerned about his home region. It seems our city council has always been interested in developing other areas (empty and abandoned areas) of town rather than improve an area that is populated, ready, willing and able to improve. I understand the empty areas needed improvements for safety. But you know, those areas they improved are still empty. One major issues for the south end is: Fenton Road needs a major overhaul to develop safety for travelers. It's one of the major roads to get to the downtown area. Did you know that Fenton Road is the location of the three of the most dangerous intersections in Genesee County? The intersection of Fenton and Bristol, Fenton and Hemphill and Fenton and Atherton. Perhaps Fenton and 12th would be added to the list soon. Years ago, I spoke with Mayor Sharp about this issue and he said, "It would be very expensive." Expensive? YES! I know. I am tired of seeing roadside memorials from accidents caused by the narrow road with no left turn lane from Hemphill to downtown. I also think constant road patrol (24-7)for speeders would make a HUGE difference. You folks who live here know there are suburban towns that are so well patrolled by the local police you just don't even think of going over the speed limit or parking in an incorrect manner. It's a guaranteed ticket, or warning-if your civil to the officer. Fenton, Davison, Durand are just a few that come to mind... Why can't we just start with something like that? Another issue, our neighborhood schools are ALL closed, except Neithercut in the Berry Patch (another beautiful neighborhood in the south end). All of them. Every single last one. Cody, McKinley, and the one that is on South Saginaw...can't think of the name of that one right now. I just hope the buildings will not become run down or tattered. Cody I believe was purchased and there are signs of life around the building, thankfully. But it isn't full of children anymore. I see Flint Board of Education moving vans backed up to the main entrances of McKinley most everyday. They are dismantling the school. Also, there is another issue with many of the homes being turned into rentals. And the landlords are not watching who they rent to and not living in the neighborhood they are leasing homes in. Now, don't get your back up on this issue. I am not concerned with the race of the tenents or whatever. The optimist in me wants to believe the landloards in most cases are not greedy, just inexperienced with their job, I think. Hopefully they aren't just persuing the "american dream" of cash, cash and more cash with very little regard of the neighbors next to their rentals. There is an issue of poor up-keep on the part of the renters and landlords. Shouldn't there be a rule of how many rentals a block should have, just to keep things in balance? Or maybe just supplying a mowing service for the rentors? Maybe a monthly visual inspection by the landlords? Something? And if you're thinking of renting to a house full of kids that don't attend school anywhere, maybe that isn't such a good idea? I have seen that happen twice. There is a little strip of businesses on Fenton Road need to clean up. They are on the west side of Fenton Road, near Atherton. Remodel the outside of the buildings, tear down that crap from the 60's and uncover-repair the building that was there in the 20's when they were built. I bet the owners would if they could find out how to get some of the federal money that is around for such projects. Now to the City of Flint's development. I remember years and years ago shortly after Autoworld was deemed a failure, Sen. Reigel stated that the best chance for Flint to be a viable town during GM's migration was to develop the colleges and universities. Give them as much land and freedom to build as they needed to develop and grow. You were correct, sir! And the Flint Farmer's Market. Currently, for me, the brightest shining star in town! LOVE IT! Go during the summer and you will love it too! Opened only Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. WHY, O, WHY, ONLY OPEN THREE DAYS A WEEK? They have a waiting list of people who want to rent booths. Why not open it six days a week, and on Monday, Wednesday, Friday opened to people who have arts and crafts to sell with a small amount of vegetable stalls on those days. Reverse the polarity. Most-not all-I know, of the people get their veggies from the Eastern Market in Detroit anyway. They don't need to be in the fields, working on the farms. Some booth operators could be there six days a week. Thanks for the chance to get my feelings out "there". I love Flint and would like to see improvements of what is good and available here now. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 757 Registered: 10-2003 |
Flint Expert: I'm on East Street which is West of Gilkey Creek, but 1/4 block East of I-475 and downtown CBD. Could you tell me what neighborhood I live in? Downtown? College Cultural? Cultural? Thanks, Cheddar Bob. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 638 Registered: 11-2003 |
East Village, sounds like. Or Cultural Center, whichever one you prefer. I always thought the designation "Cultural Center" was a bit silly, since it's saying, "Here's the designated cultural spot in the city." Hell, the Music Man Pawn Shop next to City Hall has its culture, too. As well as every other square inch of the city. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4483 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, it makes since. The grouping of museums, theaters, and such is the second largest grouping in Michigan. It's just a name like entertainment district, stadia district, financial district... | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1399 Registered: 11-2003 |
Cheddar_bob I believe that neighborhood is technically East Village. It is often mistaken as College cultural center due to its proximity. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 20 Registered: 07-2006 |
Cheddar bob, perhaps this could help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E ast_Village,_Flint I'm not entirely sure I agree with it, however, particularly the claim that 'college/cultural' isn't used outside of real estate listings. But by the sound of it, you are part of east village, although some consider that area 'Central Park'. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 155 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks to everyone for the hotel lists. Does anyone have any idea what chain is going to buy the character inn? Is Flint doing a good job of keeping their residents or is the city hurting itself by not focusing on the still populated parts of the city? I read about Flint's financial troubles on Answers. Is the problem just from the factories closing and people leaving for the city for the suburbs, or are there other problems that are depleting the city's budget? | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 21 Registered: 07-2006 |
They've kept it pretty quiet who is actually buying the character inn, so no help there. i'm not even sure if it is a chain that's buying it, but others may know something i missed. Actually, the city has a $8 million surplus, which the mayor has proposed reopening the city jail, buying 40 new tahoes for the police dept, and hiring 50 more officers. It sounds great on the surface, but there's some other issues - a different pay and benefit scale for these new officers, general concern that we're blowing money right after digging out of a huge debt. i wouldn't count on anything happening. How would flint 'focus' on certain parts? do you propose we ignore the north end while trying to fix up the south? You can't let one part fall into oblivion (and there are parts that are not very far from that), because those areas can and will affect the whole. Nonetheless, i do agree with mama jackson on fenton road - it's a death trap. i avoid it, myself. The problems that have faced flint have multiple causes, as do most problems of that magnitude. However, the GM exodus has easily contributed more to it than anything else. And with Flint Engine North (closing 2008) and Delphi Flint East (on Delphi's list to close or sell), i can understand the hesitation of city council to blow a surplus on much of anything. edit: i thought i would add some good news, the new V6 plant (on the site of the old V8 plant on vanslyke) just started production on Monday. Unfortunately, it's eventual total of 350 workers pales in comparison to the number of workers in plants that are about to close. (Message edited by scottr on September 24, 2006) | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 158 Registered: 08-2006 |
Scottr, I don't know how the city would focus on certain area's. I read Mama jackson's post and I agreed with her that the city should work on retaining residents. It's alot of work and I have no idea how the city plans to stop population loss, thank god I'm not the mayor. I'm glad to hear about the surplus in the city budget. I'm guessing to get that budget, they had to let alot of things go and decay. Is that true or was the budget turn around relatively easy? Good to hear about the new jobs in Flint at the V6 plant. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1604 Registered: 10-2003 |
When we were in Flint last Saturday shooting photos of auto heritage and related sites, I took these photos of a building on Saginaw St. one block north of the Mott Foundation Building:   There are no markings on the building to indicate what it was. Does anyone know its current or original history? The carriage symbol includes a caduceus symbol indicating that it could be a medical professional office building. I'm curious about the "marriage" of the Flint carriage symbol with the caduceus. Thanks for any help provided. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 22 Registered: 07-2006 |
I looked around a bit, and found it was once a student bookstore called 'the student union', but is usually called the 'former Roberts David Alan building' (i have heard that before, but didn't know which building they were referring to.) Wasn't that a shoe store, or am i mixing that name up with something else entirely? or perhaps men's clothing? In any case, I'm fairly certain that logo predates the bookstore, as the bookstore had a totally different logo on it's sign and windows. the address is 420 S. Saginaw, if that helps anyone find more information, and I believe it is currently owned by uptown reinvestment. a little bit older picture: http://www.roweincorp.com/focusweb/UptownReinvest/URC_Large_bookstore_420.htm (Message edited by scottr on September 25, 2006) | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1400 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have often wondered about that building's history as well Kathleen. Scottr is correct in identifying it as the former Roberts David Alan Building... no clue what that is though. I had no clue about the book store being there, good find man. I assume the store was there before the University aquired the 'Water Street' Pavillion. The sign always reminds me of the Fisher Body logo. BTW Kathleen I will email you a little later I have been rather busy this weekend and have not yet had time. | ||
Furnitureguy Member Username: Furnitureguy Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2003 |
I am so glad to hear that all of this positive chatting about flint. I moved downtown over a year ago into the Grand Traverse Neighborhood. I have fallen in love w/ the proximity to downtown, restaurants, airports, cultural areas, etc. I cant help but feel this neighborhood is Flints best kept secret. I am in the heart of this area, and have had no property crimes, nothing stolen, i walk around at night, walk to the 24 hour Tom zs restaurant. I used to stay up at night, wondering if I did the right thing by moving down here when i first moved in, and as the year has passed, every day has been better than the last. I have become so happy over this time that I live here. I have noticed improvements in every area of Downtown, and it only has been getting better. I am a suburban detroiter originally from Mt. Clemens. OH and not to mention my 3200 Sq ft 1917 Home w/ original obscene fireplace, operational double pocket doors between every one of the main level rooms, mahogany stairway step plates, upper level walk out , well and the list goes on and on........I also would be happy to answer any questions about flint and the real esate climate downtown..... | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 641 Registered: 11-2003 |
Roberts David Alan was a men's clothing store-- it closed in the early '80s along with almost everything else downtown. The carriage was their logo. There was a "Roberts David Alan" sign on the front that persisted for some years after the store closed. The firm had at least one other store, in Flint Twp. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 49 Registered: 03-2006 |
FurnitureGuy that was the strangest post I have ever read on here. The picture you just painted sounded to me like a guy peddling some homes in the area. No crime huh? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1401 Registered: 11-2003 |
Where did he say there was no crime? That area is very low crime as well as most of downtown (A fact that was told personally to me from one of the cops who patrols downtown). He stated facts that he has not experienced any crimes. A fact that is true of my many trips into the area he is talking about, which includes walking around alone at night. (Message edited by Gumby on September 25, 2006) | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 23 Registered: 07-2006 |
Gumby, Fisher Body was my first thought too, and I actually would have responded with that as the answer, had she not pointed out the caduceus. The fisher logo had a shield with an 'F' on it. but it's good to know my detective work turned up something someone else didn't know. Thank you burnsie! i was pretty sure i remembered a flint twp store, or at least i think i do - it was in the valley, right? I don't remember much of anything ever being downtown in my lifetime (my earliest memory of downtown was wondering why they were building a giant stegosaurus, but i don't remember much else), so i have to assume that the valley is where i know it from. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 51 Registered: 03-2006 |
Gumby, Do you know Larry Ford? | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 152 Registered: 03-2005 |
OK, so what about Pontiac? Anyone have any ideas there? | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1605 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks, Scottr, Gumby, and Burnsie, for the information on the Roberts David Alan building and its logo. I'll make a note to see if I can find out anything else about it when/if I visit the Flint Public Library sometime. Treelock: "Pontiac" was removed from the original thread title when it became apparent that Flint was the focus of the thread. Maybe you could start a separate "Reviving downtown Pontiac" thread. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2006 |
Isnt this a Detroit site? | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2006 |
The Pontiac Hospital is really modern looking and the other buildings are out of sate or ulgy. |
