  Mrjoshua Member Username: Mrjoshua Post Number: 916 Registered: 03-2005 |
 Detroit's core is blooming Study shows downtown is attracting more young, educated residents as population in rest of city falls. Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News 10/11/06 DETROIT -- The city's emerging downtown is attracting a core of young, educated and well-off residents to new housing, boosting the population of the city's center even as the city as a whole continues to lose people. So says a new residential market study -- scheduled for release today during a presentation at the Detroit Athletic Club -- that concluded the demand for downtown condos and apartments will remain strong through 2010. The influx of the young and relatively affluent is moving downtown Detroit closer to a healthy mix of office, residential, entertainment and retail that city leaders are striving for, but also is creating a neighborhood in stark contrast to the rest of the city: mostly black, poor and shrinking. The study's purpose was to gauge the city's success in attracting residents downtown, and to use that information as a tool to woo further development. The 85-page market analysis conducted by Katherine Beebe & Associates in Detroit found: The downtown core, roughly defined as the area bounded by the Detroit River, the Lodge, Interstate 75 and I-375, gained 118 residents, from 6,141 residents in 2000 to 6,259 in 2005. The greater downtown area, extending up Woodward Avenue and east on Jefferson, grew by 970 residents. At the same time, Detroit shrunk by more than 55,700. 2,400 new housing units were built in the greater downtown area since 2000; 1,400 were built in the past three years. There is a demand for an additional 1,700 units in the next five years in the downtown core alone. About 4,000 new residents moved downtown from 2000 to 2005. Two of three of the new downtowners came from the suburbs and a third work outside of Detroit. While the newcomers live in households with a median income of $50,000, the household income for all downtown residents is $19,800. No rush to return to suburbs Alok Sharma, 26, an information technology worker, fits the profile of the new downtown Detroiter. He moved into a downtown loft with a roommate less than a year ago and is sold on urban living. "A lot more of my friends are sleeping at my place over the weekends than I'm going to visit them in Royal Oak," said Sharma, formerly of Sterling Heights. "Last weekend, we ran of out air mattresses." His loft is within walking distance of Comerica Park. "It's everything I thought it would be. Really fun, kind of crazy at times. No way do I want to go back to a suburb anytime soon." Beebe conducted the study for the Detroit Renaissance and the Detroit Investment Fund, both of which help finance downtown projects. The study is intended as a baseline measurement of the residential development climate downtown. It is based on a survey of residents and developers, as well as demographic analyses based on the 2000 U.S. Census. "More people want to live downtown than there is supply," said Doug Rothwell, president of Detroit Renaissance. "The market has done relatively well, despite the relative weak real estate market for the region." Last year, Detroit led the area with 1,039 building permits for houses, condos and apartments, according to data compiled by the city planning agency. It was first time the city was tops in housing permits since 1982. From January to August of this year, there were 412 new building permits in Detroit, the second-highest total behind Macomb County's 497. There's still room for growth The survey looked at two overlapping areas: The downtown core (also called the Central Business District) and the greater downtown area, a collection of neighborhoods including the New Center area, Midtown, the Central Business District, the West Riverfront and the East Riverfront. The population gain of those areas was modest, but they came at a time when the city as a whole was losing 10,000 people a year. The new downtown housing and that planned for the future is helping to erase blight, the report found. Most of the housing is from renovating empty commercial or industrial buildings. A broad range of developers is getting in on the action, including large out-of-state developers and local entrepreneurs. Incentives to developers, such as financing from public sources, and to residents, such as property tax breaks, are still needed, the report concluded. The downtown core, with 400 new residences since 2000, is not yet at the point where it should stop incentives, Rothwell said. "We are not yet self-sustaining. To really create that, we are aiming for 1,000 (new) units in the core," Rothwell said. You can reach Louis Aguilar at (313) 222-2760 or laguilar@detnews.com. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2831 Registered: 10-2003 |
See how that that map of the "core" area squirts out west of the lodge like that to include that loft area of corktown but not the riverfront towers (or the bulk of residential corktown for that matter). Also if they are gonna squirt out to the west why not also squirt out to the east to include residential layafette towers. Makes me think that this residential market study is cherry picking areas ripe for development and downplaying existing housing near the CBD to emphasize need for additional "[i]ncentives to developers, such as financing from public sources, and to residents, such as property tax breaks". | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 356 Registered: 06-2005 |
That's a good point, Rustic. I attended the breakfast this morning and in the q&a period, I asked Beebe why she did not include Lafayette and Elmwood Parks in her survey. I said that if she had, I believe, it would have boosted the age, income, and educational levels significantly. She agreed that it probably would have done so. She did not include these areas because she had wanted to compare current numbers to the previous survey numbers and those areas were not included in the prior survey. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 324 Registered: 07-2004 |
That is great news. I know we all want to see the entire city revive. But the revival is going to start downtown first. It sounds like the entire central inner city is popular while the rest of the city is losing out. We must turn the pages on the outter areas. This is great news though for central Detroit. A strong heart will create strong neighbourhoods. Detroit should follow Philly's lead. Philly now is promoting inner city neighbourhoods outside of downtown, to downtown residents who are considering moving to the suburbs because they are having kids or want a house now. The plan is to entice downtown residents to see that there is great housing in the city, and that you don't need to flee to the burbs when you want a house. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 662 Registered: 12-2003 |
Still need to address the abysmal school situation for any meaningful growth to happen in the neighborhoods. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1191 Registered: 11-2003 |
Agreed rtl....Detroit's growth will only go so far until families are attracted to the city, and without good school, that will not happen. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 208 Registered: 01-2006 |
I live at Lafayette Towers, and always considered myself "downtown". Am I wrong? | ||
Adamjab19 Member Username: Adamjab19 Post Number: 723 Registered: 11-2003 |
Eh, people are trading kids in for high ceilings and brick walls. Schools are dead. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 326 Registered: 07-2004 |
Philly has addressed the school thing to. Right now it is focused on downtown, but they have a special website, and are making sure the downtown schools are the best they can be. Its interesting to see how they are working to attract families to the core. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2931 Registered: 08-2004 |
Looks like that area includes the former Michigan Executive Building (Howard & Lodge Fwy), which will be torn down for the new FBI offices. Why don't they leave the 21 story tower and fix it up as residential, while clearing the rest of the site? Granted it has some issues, but can't they be addressed? This is exactly why that building shouldn't come down. There's 4 other blocks around it that the FBI could use. If Detroit keeps losing more tall to midrise downtown buildings, then it will make it that much harder to get people to live downtown. Ditto for that building that's coming down for the Book Cadillac parking. (Message edited by Gistok on October 11, 2006) | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 761 Registered: 02-2004 |
detroitstar how is it living in lafayette towers??? | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2006 |
Are these the "hipster" DINKs? When they decide they want to breed, sluburbs here they come. Every urban area in the country experiences this. Even ones that don't have anywhere near the problems of Detroit. Start celebrating when families start moving in. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 210 Registered: 01-2006 |
I actually like it a whole lot. For the price, I dont think I've seen better in the area. I was looking at Merchants Row, but decided to hold off until after my wedding next year. It's close enough to downtown that all events are accesable by foot. 10 minute walk to CoPa, 5 minute walk to Greektown, 2 blocks from I-375. They are currently repainting the entry way and really sprucing up the appearance of the place. Good mix of young and old here. I've gotten to meet some people from the neighborhood and they have all been very nice. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 230 Registered: 08-2006 |
"Looks like that area includes the former Michigan Executive Building (Howard & Lodge Fwy), which will be torn down for the new FBI offices. Why don't they leave the 21 story tower and fix it up as residential, while clearing the rest of the site?" They definately should! "Ditto for that building that's coming down for the Book Cadillac parking" Agreed! "If Detroit keeps losing more tall to midrise downtown buildings, then it will make it that much harder to get people to live downtown." Not being sarcastic here, they can build new buildings. Bad to tear down old buildings, but great to build new ones. Detroit's skyline needs some fresh new facades! | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 220 Registered: 12-2004 |
the division of corktown makes no sense to me unless it is as Rustic points out an effort to underestimate the numbers downtown. The exluded parts are higher income and more densly populated then the section along Fort up to Porter west of US 10 that is in the "red" zone on the map above. Also folks in Brush park must be suprised find that they don't live downtown. | ||
Buddyinrichmond Member Username: Buddyinrichmond Post Number: 68 Registered: 02-2004 |
...or maybe it's because the studies are easier when they are done as an entire zip code....I could be way off though. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2932 Registered: 08-2004 |
OK Milwaukee... since you don't live here, and since the article was quite ambiguous on that one fact... Out of those 2,400 "new" housing units that went online in the last 6 years... just how many were actually NEW apartment or condo towers? I can't think of a single one.... In fact the last apartment or condo towers that were built in downtown were the 3 riverfront west towers west of Joe Louis Arena, the Millender Center Apartments, and Trolley Plaza on Washington Blvd. They are all (with the exception of one of the riverfront towers) over 20 years old. Downtown's resurgence is NOT due to new housing construction, but due to rehab of old office towers. So maybe now that puts it into perspecive for you. Developers are NOT building new residential towers in downtown Detroit, at least not yet. It does not yet make financial sense to do so. Of the 5 residential towers built between 1977-95, 2 (Millender and Trolley) received huge UDAG grants, and the other 3, the riverfront towers, were (in the words of the late Max Fisher) more philanthropy than actual prudent investments. So maybe now you see why I said they shouldn't be tearing down old former office towers in downtown. They're still the only game in town when it comes to residential high rises. (Message edited by Gistok on October 11, 2006) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4555 Registered: 10-2003 |
On a slightly different note, I'm surprised their boundaries cross the Lodge in such a strange fashion, but don't include the Riverfront Towers in their "downtown" map. BTW, links to newspaper articles should always be posted: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20061011/B IZ/610110357 | ||
Ericdfan Member Username: Ericdfan Post Number: 152 Registered: 08-2005 |
anyone know where all the ppl that are moving out of Detroit going? Inkster? Romulus? Pontiac? or out of state? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4556 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mostly the suburbs. If they weren't, you'd have seen even larger drops of population for the inner-ring over the past 15 or so years. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 40 Registered: 09-2006 |
Leaving out Lafayette Park and Riverfront and residential Corktown does not make any sense, These are very populated areas with viable bases good for retail development research. I have no idea why they leave these populations out of the study as this does not do market researchers relying on these studies any justice, They will just keep passing on retail development when infact there is a large existing residential base including these areas. Somehow this really needs to be addressed to these people making these research studies.. | ||
Dtown1 Member Username: Dtown1 Post Number: 242 Registered: 08-2006 |
COrktown, you are true about that, however, Lafayette Park has some progress with retail development all along Jefferson, like the Staples and Harbortown and likely smaller strips and shops. True, it may not be enough, but it's definently a start. Corktown's main retail was based truly on Tiger stadium, with the old style commercial buildings along Michigan, the other major avenues and shops along trumbell, unfortunately, a lot of that left when the tigers winning spirit and team themselves did leave. They are trying to create a form of retail over in Corktown and I see plenty, or modest retail near Lafayette PArk | ||
Dtown1 Member Username: Dtown1 Post Number: 243 Registered: 08-2006 |
By the way, I'm surprised Staples is investing in the city, I guess this will be a start on a possible chain of office stores and expansions plans, I hope, as everyone, even the poverish, need something to write on and write with. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 233 Registered: 08-2006 |
Gistok, I completely agree with you. I was just saying that once they're out of old buildings to renovate downtown, they will build new ones. Development downtown won't stop once all the old buildings have been turned into lofts and condo's. Downtown surface lots aren't going to last very long once land becomes valuable downtown. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2935 Registered: 08-2004 |
I agree Milwaukee, let's just hope it gets to that point "sooner rather than later"!  | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 234 Registered: 08-2006 |
Downtown is certainly on it's way to becoming really nice and cool. I'm excited for the day cranes set up to build some new condo towers downtown. The 21 story part of the FBI building should stay. Not an architectual masterpiece, but still could make for some nice condo's with great views. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4557 Registered: 10-2003 |
Did anyone else read that downtown only has 400 new residents since 2000? That's 'booming?' Greatly improved? Sure. Booming? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 236 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroit's core is blooming that was the article name, Mrjoshua just typed in booming. Downtown is definately blooming if not booming. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2005 |
I feel like a flower bud. New downtown core resident as of Nov. 1st. | ||
Mrjoshua Member Username: Mrjoshua Post Number: 921 Registered: 03-2005 |
I visited the D 10 years ago and compared to the way it looked then, downtown is definitely booming. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 209 Registered: 03-2006 |
where at | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 128 Registered: 10-2005 |
Eureka lofts | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 213 Registered: 03-2006 |
awesome! nice to know those are finishing up | ||
Imperfectly Member Username: Imperfectly Post Number: 136 Registered: 06-2004 |
detroitstar -im at the leland lofts and i consider myself downtown...so the answer to your question yes! i thought it was weird too when i didnt see lafayette park on the map. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 213 Registered: 01-2006 |
Imperfectly, my fiance and I are considering that, as one of the places we may look to after our wedding next June. How do you like it there? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2937 Registered: 08-2004 |
This article is very poorly written. I had to go back and reread it 3 times.... and it still doesn't make sense. Here's the statistics that the article gives out (in order): 1) Downtown gained 118 residents between 2000-2005. 2) The greater downtown area going up Woodward and east on Jefferson gained 970 people. 3) 2,400 new residences were built in greater downtown since 2000, 1,400 in the past 3 years. 4) About 4,000 new residents moved downtown since 2000. 5) The downtown core with 400 new residences since 2000, is not yet at the point where it should stop incentives. WTF?? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4560 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm glad I wasn't the only one confused. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 95 Registered: 09-2006 |
So which one of those is the correct statistic? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2939 Registered: 08-2004 |
I guess if you discard statistics #1 & #2, then #3, #4 and #5 sorta make sense.... | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 73 Registered: 08-2006 |
It's plausible that #1 and 4 mean that just shy of 3900 residents moved *out* of downtown since 2000. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2833 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gistok, hey its obvious: more incentives for developers, such as financing from public sources is needed! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1609 Registered: 10-2004 |
"Gistok, hey its obvious: more incentives for developers, such as financing from public sources is needed!" More subsidies for self-important, greedy people at the expense of everybody else. So? What else is new? Let them eat huts. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 874 Registered: 11-2003 |
Docmo, what floor? I know someone else that lives there (me)..... Apbest, the Eureka lofts have been done for some time.....(several years anyhow) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4561 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gambling man, didn't know how else to get in contact with you, but have you recieved me emails? | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2005 |
Gambling_man, I will be renting the 3rd floor. It was your recommendation on my Connections thread "Moving to the City?" that first directed me to the Eureka building. Thanks. My only worry now is whether the movers will be able to get my 65" rear projection HDTV up the stairs. Too big for the elevator. They say they can take it up stairs--it'll just cost me some extra moulah. Oh well, I just love that TV. What floor are you on? Looking forward to meeting you and the other neighbors. Check out the Connections thread. SS seems to indicate I will also enjoy meeting your daughter--err friend, sorry. Thanks again for the recommendation. | ||
Imperfectly Member Username: Imperfectly Post Number: 137 Registered: 06-2004 |
detroitstar- ive been at leland lofts for about 6 weeks and i really like it. you should come to an open house on sundays. if you like the idea of living in a building that was never meant to be residential you will like it. the lockers from the school still line the hallways, theres a rooftop deck with a nice view and everyone is very friendly. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 222 Registered: 01-2006 |
I think I'll have to stop by the open house. They are each Sunday? | ||
Dbc Member Username: Dbc Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2006 |
Discrepancy in numbers was explained by The News today: The downtown core ... gained 118 residents, from 6,141 residents in 2000 to 6,259 in 2005. The greater downtown area, extending up Woodward Avenue and east on Jefferson, grew by 970 residents. But the small net-gain belies the fact that 4,000 new residents moved downtown from 2000 to 2005, offsetting the loss of residents in low-income housing. Two of three of the new downtowners came from the suburbs and a third work outside of Detroit. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20061013/M ETRO/610130414/1003 | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 876 Registered: 11-2003 |
Lmichigan, I have, just have been very busy.....I'll get back with you today. Docmo, I asked the caretaker about you yesterday, said you are a nice guy, and mentioned about the TV.....I am on the 4th floor. Can't wait to meet you.....my "daughter" HA! "He's not really my uncle you know...."...."They never are dear" | ||
Imperfectly Member Username: Imperfectly Post Number: 138 Registered: 06-2004 |
detroitstar-i believe so from 1-4. check the website www.lelandlofts.com | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 631 Registered: 10-2003 |
what low income housing was destroyed that would cause 4,000 people to leave the DOWNTOWN core in the last five years? The jefrries towers weren't in the downtown core, were they? | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 748 Registered: 03-2006 |
Very good point MikeToronto. This is the next phase after downtown has filled out, become relatively expensive and the new construction high rises start getting cranked out "Toronto-style." Many people will look at the expensive new high-rises -- see the lack of character in these developments and look for other options - particularly at old houses. People love the lofts in the old buildings because there is a limited supply of them - just like their is a limited supply of nice old homes in decent neighborhoods. Lofts and condos will always be popular but many people will outgrow them and look to have a yard and a private entrance in a traditional neighborhood setting -- much like in Philly. (Message edited by eastsidedog on October 13, 2006) | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 32 Registered: 04-2006 |
The city of Philadelphia is running into a serious violent crime problem at the moment. Murder is up. And by some accounts, the overall city population may actually be declining. Crime is a major issue that can't be wished away or ignored for too long. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2027 Registered: 12-2004 |
Who is this Alok Sharma? I keep seeing his name all over the place. Better yet, who is his publicist? | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 744 Registered: 10-2003 |
LOL! Crime has been wished away and ignored for 40 years in America. Philadelphia is no different than Chicago, New Orleans, Detroit, or DC. We are all part of the same crime-ridden shithole country. When Americans bash one of our cities for being a crime-ridden shithole, they shouldn't forget to include themselves. America would have never achieved the astounding levels of violent crime without the full support of the nation. America has set the standard for all developed nations with 594,266 murders from 1976-2004. No other developed country can come close to that level of violent crime, and we couldn't have done it without a country full of people who don't give a fuck. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 44 Registered: 09-2006 |
I agree with Ericd, we have people who lived in chicago downtown in my highrise downtown who have moved here and they dont think the Downtown crime is any worse than what they were used to,,Infact they said they feel safer where they live here...I believe most Detroit crime stats actually state that downtown has the lowest crime rate in the city,,Toronto has big problems with gang violence downtown now, as evidenced by the killing there last year. Crime unfortunately is a part of urban life today in many many cities | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2006 |
I think you might be confusing a few things. Philly's crime rate has risen "in the neighborhoods," and this has stifled redevelopment outside of the safer city core. We see something of the same pattern in Detroit. The center is safe, for the most part. The outlying areas are not as safe. Redevelopment of "the neighborhoods" at this point means convincing people to move from safer areas (like downtown or the suburbs) into areas of increasing crime. That's difficult. And if Philly's current experience is instructuve, it's a big barrier to the kind of urban progress we'd like to see. This can be overwhelmed if prices in the safer core rise to the point where people slowly spread out into the fringes of the core and beyond - the traditional pattern of urban gentrification. But we're not there yet. | ||
Sl8roof Member Username: Sl8roof Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2006 |
The "Map of the Downtown Area" is somewhat arbitrary and appears to coincide with an actual map of what is a tax-incrementing district wherein taxes can be directed for additional development projects within the boundary. Calling this "downtown" is no more accurate than anyone else's definition of downtown. When I went to Wayne State, suburban classmates considered it "downtown" rather than midtown. Now at work in Troy, some folks here consider anything south of 8-mile "downtown". | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 2315 Registered: 03-2008 |
The map is actually portraying the Central Business District in Downtown. The Greater Downtown Area is roughly anything within the Grand Boulevard Loop. Just beyond that is where the suburbs start (that is arguably inside the Detroit city limits) |
