  Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 121 Registered: 10-2003 |
The weathervane from the recently razed home of the late Josephine Ford just set the world record price for American folk art. “The sculpture's beautiful patina — verdigris with traces of russet paint and glints of original gilding — was burnished by continual exposure to the elements. For years, the figure flew atop the Grosse Pointe, Mich., home of Josephine and Walter Buhl Ford II. Mrs Ford, who died last year, was a granddaughter of industrialist Henry Ford.” The weathervane stood proudly on top of 248 Provencal Road, Grosse Pointe Farms. This clapboard colonial was designed in 1925 by prominent local architect, Robert Ovens Derrick, for Sidney Trowbridge Miller, Jr. (Caroline Fay Alger). Miller was an attorney and the son of Sidney Trowbridge Miller (Lucy T. Robinson), - the “Father” of Michigan’s oldest and largest law firm Miller Canfield. Josephine Clay Ford and her husband purchased this house in 1947 and she resided here until her death last year. “I thought I owned the best weathervane until one this came along," folk art collector Jerry Lauren said at Sotheby's on October 6, moments after acquiring a J.L. Mott Indian Chief weathervane for $5.84 million (original estimate - $100/150,000) including premium.” The entire article with photograph of the weathervane can be found here: http://antiquesandthearts.com/ 2006-10-10__10-09-21.html Thank you to Nancy Nall and her new web site www.grossepointetoday.com for “breaking” this story locally. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 84 Registered: 05-2006 |
Good thing the scrappers didn't get it! | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 205 Registered: 08-2006 |
WOW! Those things are ridiculous! I saw one one an Antiques road show it was a Hen that had a peeling bronze finish, still appraised at $40K. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 667 Registered: 12-2003 |
More scrappers pillaging the local environment... | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 1293 Registered: 10-2003 |
Anyone have photos of the house? Why was it razed? | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 75 Registered: 08-2006 |
I haven't seen anything (outside of Dream's intro) that indicates the house was razed, rather that furnishings/artwork/very-valua ble-accessories were sold off. *If* the house was torn down, I'd expect that it was because it was unsellably large. (Message edited by zephyrprocess on October 12, 2006) (Message edited by zephyrprocess on October 12, 2006) | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3626 Registered: 10-2003 |
I hope some asshole doesnt build some greaseball McMansion on the site. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 86 Registered: 07-2005 |
I drove down there today, past the "Don't even think of driving down this private street" sign to check it out. The house is still there, but there is a lot of construction going on at that address. I can't find the newspaper right now, but I think in last weeks Grosse Pointe News there was an article about that address. I think that is the house that Joe Rippolone and Elena Ford asked to add a huge garage and parking lot on the property. It looks like the house is staying there. I guess time will tell. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2163 Registered: 02-2005 |
Why would anyone in their right mind tear down a 1925 RO Derrick piece? Shortsighted idiots did that in the 50s-70s, but these cases are few and far between these days (only the 60 Lakeshore debacle comes to mind). Harsensis, I live near there and haven't even tried to drive down Provencal. That was ballsy. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 88 Registered: 07-2005 |
I haven't been able to find my last weeks GP News, my wife was on a keep the house binge last week. I will try a nieghboor. Mackinaw, email me at my name at aol and I'll let you in on the secret on how to crash the gates. JJ | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 776 Registered: 11-2003 |
How much for the weathervane from the top of the Red Barn at 9 Mile and Harper? | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4493 Registered: 09-2005 |
(Making list...) 1. Buy nice GPF or S's estate for $3M 2. Sell weathervane for $5+M 3. Pay off mortgage 4. Invest balance at 6% to pay all future expenses of estate and live there for free. Did I miss something? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1245 Registered: 04-2005 |
5. Profit | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3879 Registered: 11-2004 |
6. Grin like a cheshire cat for years to come. | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 86 Registered: 03-2005 |
I wanna be a cheshire cat...I wanna a be a fancy folk art weathervane...I wanna be a FAT CAT that can afford to pay $5.84 million for the darn weathervane. Instead I'm in my cube farm clicking and dragging away for a crummy $xx an hour. Back to the farm. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 89 Registered: 07-2005 |
No Mackinaw, Ballsy is going back a second time and taking pictures! lol The house has a lot of construction going on in the backyard, but I hope the house part is staying. I think the weathervane use to be where the copper top is located. I am having trouble downsizing the pics, so I will shoot for tomorrow. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4506 Registered: 09-2005 |
Send in (MikeG?) with his plane! Or whoever manages to get Northwest to circle GP/Detroit on a clear & sunny day. That'll teach 'em to put up signs! | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 122 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thank you everyone for all of the information. I would be curious to see photographs of the present site. I am surprised that the main house is still standing. It was my understanding that it was to be razed by now. This 9,000 plus square foot house is being torn down to make room for a much larger new home. It is my understanding that the Robert O. Derrick designed house had many new additions as well as structural issues which would have made it unmarketable. An old photograph of fhe white clapboard and brick New England shingle style colonial can be seen in W. Hawkins Ferry’s The Buildings of Detroit p. 305. Picture No. 340. “Designed by Robert O. Derrick to "resemble a quaint old New England dwelling (to give the impression that) generation after generation of thrifty Yankees had added to or modified its snug exterior." ( p. 305). I do recall the Grosse Pointe News article which discussed the zoning variance to permit a 12 car attached garage plus a 3 car detached garage. The new house will apparently also have an attached recreational wing containing a bowling alley and indoor swimming pool. If someone is so kind as to photograph this site you may want to also take pictures of the large new French Chateau style house being completed right next door as well as the large Georgian Colonial further down the block closer to Kercheval. There has been quite a bit of new construction in Grosse Pointe Farms in the past year, especially along Lothrop as well as Ridge. Also in Grosse Pointe Shores near Sunningdale and Lochmoor. As the weathervane was sold as part of the Josephine Ford Estate it must not have been included as a fixture when the house was sold. This “teardown” sold for $2.850 million. As slow as the Michigan real estate market has been this sale was trumped by 2 other homes that recently sold for over three million dollars in the Pointes. (1 (1 Martin Place and 1 Elmsleigh). There have been several million dollar plus recent sales, especially in the Farms. At present there are even two homes listed for over 8 million (109 Kenwood and 15600 Windmill Pointe). | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4511 Registered: 09-2005 |
Dream - If the weathervanes are still on any of those homes I might be interested. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 91 Registered: 07-2005 |
Ok Dream, here is the house next door, on the west side first. Id this new? It is empty now and looks new.  | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 92 Registered: 07-2005 |
Also I don't think it matters about if the weathervane went with the house or not. The new owners are Fords themselves. It is Elena Ford, the one who owns the big yacht that is at the GP Yacht club at times. I haven't looked to see how Josephine and Elena fit together, but they are both Fords. Ok, here are pictures of the old Ford House which might be coming down.  | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 93 Registered: 07-2005 |
And here is the side view from the street.  | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 94 Registered: 07-2005 |
Also, I think the weathervane was on the copper roof on the right of the last pic. This pic was taken looking up the driveway where construction in taking place. I didn't want to drive back there to see what was happening. Behind this area is the Hunt Club. My Hawkins Ferry books are at the cottage at Harsens Island, so I can't see what is in there now.  | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 95 Registered: 07-2005 |
Nice driveway too, I would hate to have to shovel that! | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 15 Registered: 02-2005 |
ive got some pics, did an appraisal on it in the past, ill see if i can dig them up in my archives | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 16 Registered: 02-2005 |
wont let me upload, anyway amazing, the price of that weathervane exceeded the entire appraised value of the real estate.... | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1195 Registered: 11-2003 |
Wow, I actually dated a guy who was a groundskeeper at the Josephine Ford house. Cool pictures. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2005 |
Goose, I had the same problem. I had to make them smaller to get them to upload. | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2005 |
here are my pics from july of 2005 when i went thru the entire property, dont have any of the interior, and couldt find any of the weathervane, the house was kinda old, very minimal updating, original kitchens and baths, it measured out at 13,000 sq. ft. and there were several out buildings such as a pool house and such  | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 18 Registered: 02-2005 |
and  | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 19 Registered: 02-2005 |
and  | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 20 Registered: 02-2005 |
final (too hard resizing these!!!)  | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 124 Registered: 10-2003 |
Karl, LOL. Sorry no record breaking weathervanes on these two properties. Although 109 Kenwood has some interesting Detroit Tigers history. It was once the home of Tiger’s slugger, Cecil Fielder. Harsensis, Thank you so much for the great photos. Regarding the “new” house at 268 Provencal. Construction initially began in 2001 and the house is at least 10,387 square feet. Since construction began, the present owner a former 1996 Presidential Candidate, has moved to a smaller residence on nearby Preston Place. By any chance did you get any photos of the new Colonial at 218 Provencal? Relative to the Josephine and Elena Ford Connection. Josephine Ford was the only granddaughter of Henry Ford. (3rd generation) Elena Ford is the great great granddaughter of Henry Ford (5th generation) Elena Anne Ford is the daughter of the late Stavros Niarchos (1909-1996) and Charlotte Ford. Charlotte was the daughter of Henry Ford II. Elena is the cousin of William Clay Ford, Jr. , the now former CEO of Ford Motor Company. Elena Ford is the Director of Ford’s North American product marketing, planning & strategy. Previously she helped to rejuvenate the Mercury brand. As an aside, I understand that she quickly rose through the company ranks based on her own merits and intelligence rather then family name. Additionally, she is said to be a genuinely nice and down to earth individual. Josephine Clay "Dodie" Ford was married to Walter Buhl Ford II. She was the daughter of Edsel Bryant Ford (Eleanor). The beautiful Tudor play house on the grounds of the Ford Estate at 1100 Lake Shore was built for her. Dodie’s siblings were: - Henry Ford II - Benson Ford - William Clay Ford (father of Bill, Jr. And owner of the Lions) | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2003 |
Goose, Thank you for the great pictures. I note that you had the size of the house at 13,000 square feet. This is significantly larger then the City tax records which list the square footage at only 9,124. In my experience of looking up information on Grosse Pointe houses, it seems that the square footage used for tax assessment purposes tends to be conservative and does not include finished living space on the third floor. I have compiled a preliminary list of some of the largest homes in Grosse Pointe and Detroit. It would be greatly appreciated if you have and could share any information on other houses that should be added to the list or any needed changes to the listed information. THE LARGEST HOMES OF GROSSE POINTE ADDRESS CITY AGE SIZE 1. 1100 Lake Shore GPS 1929 30,000 2. 32 Lake Shore GPF 1910 28,000 3. 423 Lake Shore GPF 1963 23,207 4. 211 Vendome GPF 1931 21,484 5. 1000 Lake Shore GPS 1964 21,010 6. 241 Lake Shore GPF 1992 20,223 7. 109 Kenwood GPF 1929 18,000 8. 950 Lake Shore GPS 1991 17,912 9. 22 Webber GPS 1927 16,000 10. 15420 Windmill Pt GPP 1928 15,000 11. 635 Lake Shore GPS 1934 14,964 12. 15530 Windmill Pt GPP 1929 14,547 13. 15520 Windmill Pt GPP 1904 14,234 14. 290 Provencal GPF 1927 14,040 15. 15366 Windmill Pt. GPP 1929 13,822 16. 110 Cloverly GPF 1926 13,000 17. 15600 Windmill Pt GPP 1996 12,800 18. 372 Lakeland GPC 1909 12,000 19. 315 Washington GPC 1924 12,000 20. 235 Touraine GPF 1928 12,000 21. 194 Provencal GPF 1931 11,878 22. 214 Provencal GPF 19 11,767 23. 251 Lincoln GPC 1917 11,181 24. 237 Lake Shore GPF 1966 11,175 25. 114 Lothrop GPF 1937 11,069 26. 99 Lothrop GPF 1929 11,000 27. 30 Oxford GPS 1930 11,000 28. 1010 Lake Shore GPS 2002 10,981 29. 189 Cloverly GPF 1929 10,880 30. 180 Provencal GPF 1960 10,700 31. 243 Lakeland GPC 1915 10,682 32. 34 Beverly GPF 1913 10,450 33. 268 Provencal GPF 2001 10,387 34. 281 University GPC 1918 10,378 35. 1005 Whittier GPP 1926 10,325 36. 338 Provencal GPF 1929 10,304 37. 226 Provencal GPF 1940 10,248 38. 5 Lake Court GPC 1920 10,204 39. 1 Donovan GPC 1916 10,141 40. 1018 Bishop GPP 1921 10,000 41. 15410 Windmill Pt GPP 1923 10,000 42. 815 Ellair GPP 1926 10,000 43. 204 Provencal GPF 1927 10,000 44. 759 Lake Shore GPS 1971 10,000 45. 15324 Windmill Pt GPP 1927 9,931 46. 41 Provencal GPF 1906 9,927 47. 33 Oldbrook GPF 1926 9,881 48. 234 Provencal GPF 1929 9,785 49. 160 Provencal GPF 1957 9,723 50. 340 Lakeland GPC 1925 9,600 51. 355 Lincoln GPC 1913 9,500 52. 274 Provencal GPF 1924 9,432 53. 880 Lake Shore GPS 1910 9,413 54. 15440 Windmill Pt. GPP 1992 9,362 55. 257 Ridge GPF 1928 9,346 56. 12 Rathbone GPC 1909 9,300 57. 16638 E. Jefferson GPP 1927 9,279 58. 8 Carmel GPF 1912 9,232 59. 138 Kenwood GPF 1929 9,176 60. 269 Lake Shore GPF 1908 9.137 61. 248 Provencal GPF 1925 9,124 62. 591 Lake Shore GPS 1978 9,091 63. 411 Country Club GPF 1932 9,060 64. 1 Woodland GPC 1921 9,050 65. 382 Provencal GPF 19 9,048 66. 35 McKinley Pl. GPF 1909 9,036 67. 914 Lake Shore GPS 1997 9,000 68. 1021 Harvard GPP 1921 9,000 69. 394 Lakeland GPC 1923 9,000 70. 1007 Bishop GPP 1923 9,000 71. 1018 Three Mile GPP 1927 9,000 72. 190 Ridge GPF 1930 9,000 73. 585 Lake Shore GPS 1962 9,000 74. 25 Fair Acre GPF 1960 9,000 75. 16628 E. Jefferson GPP 1927 8,974 76. 301 Lake Shore GPF 1909 8,921 77. 30 Preston GPF 19 8,896 78. 233 Lothrop GPF 1994 8,895 79. 221 Lewiston GPF 1924 8,890 80. 306 Provencal GPF 1999 8,880 81. 218 Provencal GPF 2006 8,819 82. 121 Kenwood GPF 2001 8,802 83. 1 Elmsleigh GPC 1984 8,677 84. 330 Provencal GPF 1927 8,625 85. 217 Touraine GPF 1929 8,589 86. 270 Voltaire Pl. GPF` 1929 8,524 87. 44 Beverly GPF 1916 8,511 88. 3 Lakeside GPC 1901 8,500 89. 344 Provencal GPF 1929 8,496 90. 390 Provencal GPF 1929 8,420 91. 105 Lake Shore GPF 19 8,419 92. 40 Preston GPF 19 8,415 93. 777 Lake Shore GPS 1969 8,400 94. 28 Beverly GPF` 1912 8,360 95. 992 Lake Shore GPS 2000 8,320 96. 4 Rathbone GPC 1911 8,282 97. 43 McKinley GPF 1915 8,218 98. 936 Lake Shore GPS 1917 8,211 99. 820 Edgemont GPP 1924 8,207 100. 4 Alger GPC 1966 8,200 101. 956 Lake Shore GPS 1970 8,157 102. 125 Kenwood GPF 1927 8,124 103. 28 McKinley Pl. GPF 1914 8,110 104. 699 Lake Shore GPS 1925 8,100 105. 16632 E. Jefferson GPP 1926 8,088 106. 273 Ridge GPF 1928 8,082 107. 2 Woodland Pl. GPC 1928 8,081 108. 740 Whittier GPP 1933 8,035 109. 71 Lake Shore GPF 1895 8,000 110. 330 Lincoln GPC 1911 8,000 111. 16671 E. Jefferson GPP 1917 8,000 112. 365 University GPC 1919 8,000 113. 1012 Three Mile GPP 1927 8,000 114. 781 Middlesex GPP 1928 8,000 115. 551 Lake Shore GPS 1956 8,000 116. 280 Provencal GPF 1979 8,000 | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2003 |
The Largest Homes of Detroit ADDRESS AGE SIZE 1. 1880 Wellesley 1925 40,000 2. 1771 Balmoral 1925 35,000 3. 383 Lenox 1927 22,000 4. 70 W. Boston 1914 22,000 5. 4421 Woodward* 1894 21,000 6. 5510 Woodward* 1892 20,988 7. 670 W. Boston 1922 16,000 8. 1771 Seminole 1907 15,000 9. 530 Parkview* 1898 13,500 10. 1116 Iroquois 1908 13,000 11. 150 W. Boston 1915 12,800 12. 1905 Balmoral 1929 12,000 13. 2535 Iroquois 1914 12,000 14. 97 Winder* 1876 11,000 15. 8445 E. Jefferson* 19 11,000 16. 67 E. Kerby* 192 11,000 17. 918 W. Boston 1917 10,000 18. 892 W. Boston 1923 10,000 19. 1730 Burns 19 10,000 20. 975 E. Jefferson* 1868 10,000 21. 8115 E. Jefferson* 19 9,700 22. 1500 Seminole 19 9,300 23. 17325 Pontchatrain 1928 9,000 24. 1007 Burns 1917 9,000 25. 1763 Iroquois 1916 8,582 26. 1441 Burns 1917 8,522 27. 1565 Balmoral 1926 8,500 28. 1720 Iroquois 1914 8,100 29. 1411 Wellesley 1924 8,000 *No longer used as a private residence | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 97 Registered: 07-2005 |
I drove by again today, the house looks like it might come down tomorrow. There was a big shovel with it's bucket up in the air right behind the house. Too bad they aren't having a demolition sale to sell off parts of the house. When 507 Lakeshore (the taco bell house) was sold off I bought one some of the lighting. The copper gutters went to a house in the Park, the doors went to another house on Lakeshore and the sauna went into a west side house. (Message edited by harsensis on October 19, 2006) | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 21 Registered: 02-2005 |
Dream, I was also in the 109 Kenwood house several times, and was contacted after it burned down for pictures and floor plan and stuff for the restoration. I think I was in that house 3 times, last time was when Fielder bought the house. I will dig through my files and see if I still have some pics, that was a long time ago but I keep most of my files from the "bigger" homes in the Pointes. Looking through your list it looks like our company has been in about 30-40% of those GP homes.... they are a fun part of the job...... | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 98 Registered: 07-2005 |
I checked on Friday and the main house is still there. It looks like there is a small hole on the house on the front near the back. But for the most part it was all still standing. I talked to some other unnamed sources who are in the know and they said it is coming down. | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 91 Registered: 03-2005 |
Hey thanks, Harsensis, Goose & Dream for making this such an informative thread. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3635 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dream, ever get the square footage of the former Lemuel Bowen mansion? My rough estimate gives it about 18,000 minimum | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2969 Registered: 08-2004 |
Is 1100 Lakeshore the Edsel & Eleanor Ford House at 30,000 sq. ft.? And is 1000 Lakeshore (at 21,010 sq.ft.) that Georgian red brick mansion set way back from Lakeshore with the large American flag attached to the upper front? | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 100 Registered: 08-2006 |
1100 Lakeshore is the Edsel & Eleanor Ford House; see http://www.fordhouse.org/home. asp 1000 is William Clay Ford's; it straddles the line between Wayne and Macomb counties | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2003 |
Harsensis, thanks for the continued updates on 248 Provencal! Goose, Thanks for your comments. The restoration of 109 Kenwood was amazing. I had a chance to attend the lecture by the restoration architect, Sandra Laux of Allen Laux,Inc.,at the GP War Memorial. She indicated that it cost over $6 million to rebuild this house. It is very fortunate that this home was restored. The marketing of this house has been most unusual. The price has fluctuated from $7.5 million down to $4.5 million and now back up to $8.000 million. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 130 Registered: 10-2003 |
Patrick, I have no square footage info on the Bowen House. The only information I have is as follows. Lem W. Bowen was a founder and first president of the Cadillac Motor Car Company. He was one of the main financial backers of Henry Ford. The address for his home is listed as 5435 Woodward. That is the present home of FLAC. The wonderful community resource known as the Free Legal Aid Clinic. It is run by one of the nicest lawyers you will ever meet and an icon of the local legal community, Henry Lukowiak. Zephyr, You are correct on your identification of the 2 houses. Gistok, The red brick Georgian Colonial with the large flag is 635 Lake Shore. Originally known as “Woodley Green” it was designed for Emory W. Clark (Lucie Wing) by Architect Hugh Tallman Keyes, Completed in 1934 it consists of14,964 square feet. Again, this square footage is based on tax assesment records. It is most likely significantly larger, even if just the finished third floor space is included. This large Georgian/Regency style home features bow fronted wings, a parapet and copper roof. Georgian Colonial with foreshadowing of the Regency style Stone entrance porch with Corinthian columns, bow fronted wings on each side of front facade with delicate iron window guards, parapet roof wall above wooden cornice, hipped copper roof, substantial chimneys, circular driveway. Featured in W. Hawkins Ferry’s The Buildings of Detroit, p. 306. Picture No. 344. Ferry describes as "One of his (Keyes) finest houses has the appearance of some venerable English country seat." History of ownership: [1934-1951+ Emory W. Clark (Lucie Wing) - President of First National Bank] [+1968-1978 Benson Ford (Edith McNaughton) - Ford Motor Company] Benson Ford (1919-1978) - son of Edsel & Eleanor Ford - grandson of Henry & Clara Ford - joined Ford Motor Company in 1940 - became a director in 1941 Children; - Benson Ford, Jr. (1940- ) - Lynn M. Ford Alandt (1951- ) Architect Hugh Tallman Keyes, - (1888-1963) - Keyes was born in Trenton, Michigan. - Studied architecture at Harvard School of Architecture (1913-15) and worked for Albert Kahn & Associattes until opening his own office in Detroit. After serving 2 years in the Navy during World War I, returned to Detroit and worked at Van Leyen & Schilling. - Licensed as an architect in Michigan on May 12, 1920. Briefly worked at Smith, Hinchman & Grylls before opening his own practice in 1921. - Hugh T. Keyes was a prolific designer of fine homes in Grosse Pointe during the 1930s. Keyes was born in Trenton, Michigan. He studied architecture at Harvard and worked for Albert Kahn & Associattes until opening his own office in Detroit after serving 2 years in the Navy during World War I. Information primarily from The Buildings of Detroit by W. Hawkins Ferry, an excellent reference guide to local architecture. Also see the 2003 AIADetroit Guide to Detroit Architecture. Projects in Grosse Pointe include: 180 Cloverly, GPF (1928), 78 Kenwood, GPF (1928), 78 Lake Shore, GPF (1928), 22 Lee Gate, GPF (1947), 30 Lee Gate, GPF (1939), 114 Lewiston, GPF (1929) 221 Lewiston, GPF (1924) Lewiston, GPF, 114 Lothrop, GPF (1937), 34 Provencal, GPF (1912), 344 Provencal, GPF (1929), 168 Stephens, GPF (1937), 174 Touraine, GPF (1928), 379 Lakeland, GPF (1926), 5 Woodland Place, GPC (1927), 894 (1947), 665 (1951) and 635 (1934) Lake Shore, GPS, 820 Edgemont Park, GPP (1927). Designed major addition at 15410 Windmill Pointe, GPP (1929). | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2971 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks Zephyrprocess and Dream.... 635 Lakeshore appears to be the largest of the "old estates" visible along Lakeshore Dr. That house and the "Spanish Villa" (on the former Scripps-Whitcomb estate) set back with a winding drive bordered by trees (on Lakeshore Dr. just north of Moross) will probably be in the future "subdivision prone" due to the vast size of their Lakeshore property. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 100 Registered: 07-2005 |
I think the Spanish Villa is Masco, but that is just what I have heard. That is one nice piece of property, it goes from Lakeshore to Kercheval and I hope it never gets developed. As for the original post, Josephine Fords house is still standing. The hole in it looks to be in the side of the attached garage but it isn't that big. All of the cunstruction equipment has been moved away from the house and I couldn't see it anywhere. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 104 Registered: 07-2005 |
Well Josephine Fords house is on it's way down now. I drove down Provencal today and most of the windows were out and about a quarter of the house was down. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2003 |
Harsensis, Thank you very much for your continued updates on 248 Provencal. 383 Lake Shore is a great piece of property. The original Whitcomb Estate was much larger as the current property has been subdivided, including the creation of Whitcomb Road. To my knowledge Manoogian has no ownership interest in this property. The current owner of MASCO, Richard A. Manoogian resides on Provencal Road. He has lived on Provencal since 1966. He also owns a large lakefront house on Windmill Pointe Drive. 383 Lake Shore Grosse Pointe Farms 1957 - 8,866 - large lot, originally part of Edgar Bancroft Whitcomb (Anna Scripps) Estate Edgar Bancroft Whitcomb (Anna Scripps) House Edgar:- Director at Detroit News Anne:- Anne Scripps Whitcomb Conservatory at Belle Isle, Detroit- - estate had two large greenhouses - gardener for 27 years was William Crichton - When Anne died in 1953 she left the entire collection of more than 600 rare orchid plants to the Belle Isle Conservatory - in 1955the old domed conservatory on Belle Isle would be renamed the Anna Scripps Whitcomb Conservatory - daughter of James E. Scripps (Harriet Josephine Messenger) - James founded Detroit News in 1873 Right next door to 383 Lake Shore is a house, that with the upcoming election is of interest, as it was the home of one of Michigan’s most popular governors - Soapy Williams. Although facing Lake Shore it has the address of 25 Tonnancour. 25 Tonnancour Grosse Pointe Farms Architect - John L. Pottle Pottles other local works include: - 309 Lake Shore, GPF 1957 - 7,800 Gabled roof dormer added in 2005 [1957-1964 Richard P. Joy, Jr. (Mary Reynolds)] [1964-1988 Gerhard Mennen “Soapy” Williams (Nancy Quirk)] - (1911-1988) - Governor of Michigan (1949-1961) - Michigan Supreme Court/Chief Justice (1983-1987) - Michigan Supreme Court Justice (1970-1987) - son of Henry P. Williams (Elma C. Mennen) (344 Provencal, GPF) - His mother's father, Gerhard H. Mennen, was the founder of the Mennen brand of men's personal care products (now marketed by the Colgate-Palmolive company). Because of this, Williams acquired the popular nickname Soapy. His widow eventually remarried and lived here until 2005. 344 Provencal Road Grosse Pointe Farms Henry Phillips Williams (Elma C. Mennen) House Architect - Hugh Tallman Keyes 1928 - 8,496 | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 119 Registered: 08-2006 |
Dream--out of curiosity, what source are you quoting? | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 105 Registered: 07-2005 |
I haven't driven down there in a few days, but I asked somebody who has, and he said the whole house is gone now. So Josephine's house is a memory. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 133 Registered: 10-2003 |
Harsensis, Thank you for the update. Zephyrprocess, The information comes from a variety of sources ie real estate records, city tax records, Register of Deed records. Additionally, some of the information is from articles I've read as well as personal information obtained from residents of the community. I had compiled a fairly extensive data base of GP information relative to area homes and history. Last year, a computer crash destroyed much of this info which I am slowly attempting to recompile. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3674 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dream, any info on the Oscar Webber mansion? I read everything in Brunk's book, but any recent info? I was told that it was in danger of being taken down at one time. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 107 Registered: 07-2005 |
Hey Dream, it might be to late now, but when my computer crashed I took out the old hard drive and added it into my new computer as an extra drive. I was able to save all of my old info. I still have the old one in there today and use it for extra storage space for all of my ebay pics. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2003 |
As previously noted by numerous forumers, DetroitYes.com is often visited by various local media. I note that in Crain’s Detroit Business November 20th issue at page 30 there is a brief article on the sale of the weathervane from the Josephine Ford house, as well as the razing of this residence. Unlike the great reporting by DetroitYes.com's own Harsensis, the Crain's article did not yet confirm that the house was already torn down. The Crain’s article references the architect of the new home to be constructed at 248 Provencal, Dominic Tringali. One of his local designs is presently on the market and is located at 555 Lake Shore. This 5,425 square foot house built in 1998 is selling for $3,400,000. Patrick, To the best of my knowledge the Leonard B. Willeke designed Oscar Webber (Marjorie Lambert) House at 22 Webber Place in Grosse Pointe Shores is not presently in any danger of being razed. This 16,000 square foot mansion had sat on the market for a long time before finally selling for “only” $975k in 1998. The present owners have done a very admirable job of being good stewards of same. It has been open to the public for various fund raisers, including Grosse Pointe South High Schools last Holiday Walk house tour. Patrick, as you may recall from Brunk’s book Willeke had foreseen the need for the large estate to someday be subdivided. Unfortunately, as you can see his plan was never followed. Harsensis, Thank you very much for the kind advice. Unfortunately, in my situation the actual file was completely written over by the older Scan Disk system that my computer was running. Fortunately, I had an older version of the file saved on disk as well as a newer hard copy of my data base that I located but unfortunately both were outdated by about 2 years. I have learned my lesson well and now try to be careful to routinely back up all of my work intensive files. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 108 Registered: 07-2005 |
Thanks Dream, Just to add, the Webber house is pretty safe now since all of the extra land around it was sold off to build other smaller houses. The last lot, which had the carriage house on it was developed about 5 years ago. I think they left it standing and built the house in front of it, but I can't remember for sure. I'll take a drive by soon since my daughter goes to school around the corner. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 109 Registered: 07-2005 |
Oh, the Webber house is neat since it is still located where it was and the view to the lake was filled in with newer houses. It is fun to search for those houses that use to be lake front homes, but not are behind new places. It is one nice way to preserve the older homes, even if you have to imagine what it was like when they had a clear view to the lake. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2003 |
Harsensis, I believe that the 4 car carriage house to the Oscar Webber mansion was at 56 Webber Place. In 1992 a 5,500 square foot house was built on this lot. I do not know if the carriage house remains. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2003 |
Harsensis, I agree, even if it may appear awkward, such as with 22 Webber, I would much rather see an original architectural gem remain surrounded by newer housing rather then have it razed. Other interesting houses which formerly had a Lake Shore address include: original address of 599 Lake Shore Road, GPS now 2 Clairview Grosse Pointe Shores Ford Ballantyne (Margaret H. Wilson) House 1915 - 7,242 [1971-1979 Willard “Bill” A. Kennedy (Suzanne Wiggins King)] Bill: - (1908-1997) - TV personality - Bill Kennedy At the Movies (1969-1983) original address of 283 Lake Shore, later 265 Lake Shore now 8 Carmel Lane Grosse Pointe Farms Phillip H. McMillan House Architect - Albert Kahn 1912 - 9,232 original address of 287 Lake Shore now 269 Lake Shore (behind 267 Lake Shore) Grosse Pointe Farms Richard Pickering Joy (Mary Moore) House 1910 - 8,868 original address of 325 Lake Shore - pre 1940 address was 337 Lake Shore now 33 Oldbrook Lane Grosse Pointe Farms John T. Woodhouse. (Elizabeth Barnum) House “East Hall” Architect - George D. Mason 1920 - 9,881 | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2003 |
Houses which formerly had an East Jefferson Avenue address include: original address of 17845 E. Jefferson now 25 Fisher Road Grosse Pointe Herbert Bagley Trix (Dorothy Stoneman) House Architect - Hugh Tallman Keyes 1937 - 5,241 original address of 17743 E. Jefferson now 251 Lincoln Road Grosse Pointe Murray William Sales (Jessie Carter) House "Edgeroad" Architect - Louis Kamper 1917 - 11,181 ???17721 E. Jefferson??? now 250 Washington Road Grosse Pointe 1913 - 7,500 Georgian Colonial ???17631 E. Jefferson??? now 285 Washington Road Grosse Pointe Architect - Louis Kamper 1910 - 7,629 17315 E. Jefferson (corner of Lakeland and Jefferson) Grosse Pointe Arthur McGraw (Grace I. Butler) House Architect - Charles Adams Platt 1927 - 7,113 Georgian Colonial original address of ???? E. Jefferson now 315 Lakeland Avenue (corner of Lakeland and Jefferson) Grosse Pointe James Milton Robb (Virginia Yerger) House Architect - ???Hugh T. Keyes or George D. Mason??? 1929 - 7,274 English Tudor 372 Lakeland Avenue (moved from E. Jefferson) \ Grosse Pointe John Michael Dwyer (Anna Denison) House Architect - Raymond D. Carey 1909 - 12,000 - Originally located on Jefferson Avenue. Moved inland when estate subdivided and bisected by Lakeland Avenue - Estate originally had 3 outbuildings - a carriage house (now 17330 Maumee), guest house (now 382 Lakeland) and a horse stable - Featured in W. Hawkins Ferry’s The Buildings of Detroit, p. 304. Picture No. 335 Former address also - 380 Lakeland - selling for $2.190m in 2006 original address of ??? 17184 E. Jefferson??? Now 4 Woodland Place, GPC John R. Russel House 1922 - 5,450 original address of ??? E. Jefferson??? 3 Lakeside Court Grosse Pointe 1901 - 8,500 selling for $2.700m in 2006 | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 112 Registered: 07-2005 |
Dream, I forgot I was suppose to drive by Webber Place. Also, I thought that Bill Kennedy use to live at the corner of Hillcrest and Beaupre in the white older frame house on the south west corner. That must have been after he moved from there in 1983. | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 143 Registered: 08-2006 |
I can assure you that the 2 Clairview home was most definitely Kennedy's in the mid-70s. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 114 Registered: 07-2005 |
Ok, then he must have moved to the Farms in 83 and then I think he moved to Florida after that. I use to live on the same block as him, one street over and we use to think it was so cool that we could see him on TV, (even if it was boring for a kid) and then see him while we were out riding bikes. We had a TV star living by us! lol It was always a bummer when you were home sick and one o clock hit, all of the good TV was done for a couple of hours. Ahhh life before cable TV, I could never go back to that. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2003 |
Harsensis, You are correct about Bill Kennedy owning and living in a house on Hillcrest in Grosse Pointe Farms. He owned this house from at least 1970 until he sold it in 1986. Kennedy moved to 2 Clairview during approximately 1971. The Clairview house had been owned since 1965 by Kennedy’s new wife, Suzanne Wiggins, and her former husband, Daniel Nipgen King. Bill and Suzanne sold Clairview in 1979 and moved to Palm Beach in 1982. Hillcrest was sold by Kennedy in 1986. 301 Hillcrest Grosse Pointe Farms 1921 - 1,900 For a photo tour of the Hillcrest house, please see: http://www.cchampion.com/301Hi llcrest/ I see that 246 Hillcrest is back on the market. This home’s most interesting feature is probably its 5 car garage which includes a “hidden” 3 car tandem section which is heated and air conditioned. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 116 Registered: 07-2005 |
Wow Dream, you are good. I didn't know that about 246. Depending on which side of Ridge I use, that house is only 4 to 8 houses away from where I am now. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 117 Registered: 07-2005 |
I drove by the 56 Webber, and it looks like the carriage house is gone. That is to bad, I think it would be a cool addition to a house or backyard. You could turn it into another use. If they ever sell the lot at the corner of Provencal they use that garage as part of the newly built house. Only time will tell with that. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3693 Registered: 10-2003 |
I came across the name Charles Helin recently. Apparently, he was a rags to riches story similar to that of Horatio Alger. He started the Flatfish line of fishing lures and made a large fortune. He only had an eight grade education, but somehow made it work. We all hear of stories about auto barons starting with nothing but we hardly ever hear of someone who made it big in a non-auto related area. Anyone heard of the Helin Tackle Company? Did they have a plant in Detroit? I came across some info that he lived on Windmill Pointe in one of the area’s most spectacular homes. I believe it was lot 23 and 24 of the subdivision. The lot had 200 feet of lakefront access and had a depth of 400 feet. (roughly 2 acres or so). The house itself was 55 x 105 feet. The house had 7 rooms and 2 lavatories on the first floor. It had 8 Bedrooms and 6 bathrooms on the second floor and 5 rooms and 2 bathrooms on the third floor. The carriage house had space for 4 cars plus a 5-room apartment on the second floor. The house was built for Herbert V. Book in 1923 but I have no idea who built it…possibly Louis Kamper??? He paid $50,000 for the property and another $230,000 to build the manse. The home was burned by vandals in the early 70’s while Helin was away on a trip to China. The fire also consumed one of the largest butterfly collections in the country. Helin v Grosse Pointe Township Vintage images | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 5220 Registered: 09-2005 |
OK, I've got a question that I'll bet some enterprising DY'er could answer. I would be very interested to see what one of these very large homes consumed in natural gas during one month of their true "heyday" - that is, during the 20's, 30's, 40's when energy was cheap and the owner was living high and didn't care and had all those (inefficient) furnaces going full-blast (anyone remember when your folks kept the thermostat at 76 all winter long?) how many therms did a house like that consume in the dead-cold of winter? From deep in the catacombs of Michigan Consolidated Gas Co (or an earlier name) it would be fun to see. I understand that there might be "privacy" issues here, so perhaps if someone knew, they might post "a certain house, with this many sq feet, during this month/yr, used XXX therms" The actual cost isn't that important, the cost of a therm in a particular year shouldn't be that hard to find out - but again, my question is: How much did those houses use, IN THERMS in one cold month, in "those" days? Sometimes when I drive by, I count the chimneys, then figure: No efficient windows, sometimes no insulation, cheap energy, etc etc. Maybe not yours, but it boggles my mind. Ever-resourceful DY-ers? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3694 Registered: 10-2003 |
Helin used only 8 to 10 rooms of his mansion and it cost him $250.00 to heat in 1950. So that is just a third of his house. That would be roughly $5800 today. And that is for one month! Imagine what the Fishers paid for their Palmer Woods home(s)!!! | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 5221 Registered: 09-2005 |
Thanks, Patrick - interesting. I'm hoping that someone, somewhere, could post a few examples (perhaps posting by address is asking too much but would be fascinating if possible) that would be from the actual records. Or - perhaps someone could, with the permission of the owner (or their heir) post actual consumption from the specific address of one of these behemoths. | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2006 |
Move to California, most of the people with brains already have. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3695 Registered: 10-2003 |
heh, and they're going to fall into the Pacific or die from and OD on plastic surgery. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 145 Registered: 10-2003 |
Harsensis, Thanks for your update on 56 Webber and your kind comment. That area around Hillcrest is a wonderful neighborhood and must have been a great place to grow up. It is to bad that the carriage house could not have been spared. Patrick, I have some information on the Helin House which I will look up and post shortly. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 152 Registered: 10-2003 |
Patrick, Here is what I could find on the Book/Helin House. Sorry but I do not know the architect. If I recall correctly, you had once posted a picture of this house. Possibly from the WSU photo archives. 15440 Windmill Pointe Drive - RAZED Grosse Pointe Park (Presently the site of a 9,362 square foot house built in 1992) Herbert V. Book (Eleanore Everard)] House “Lake Edge” - burned down in 1978 (fire loss with contents estimated at $3.5m) 1924 - [1924-1943 Herbert V. Book (Eleanore Everard)] - Real Estate Developer - Book-Cadillac Hotel, Book Tower, Book Building - one of the 3 Book Brother s along with James Burgess Book and Frank P. Book [moved from 395 Lake Shore, GPF] [1944-1978 Charles P. Helin (Mary A.)] - As a poor man with a ninth grade education, invented the "Flatish" fishing lure - in 1937 started the Helin Tackle Company. - started selling millions of them across the world. - The Flatish is still one the best selling artificial fishing lures. - became a multi-millionaire by 1942 . House tragically burned to the ground due to a reportedly accidental fire set by teenagers who broke into the mansion in the 1970s. Mr. Helin was traveling in China at the time, and when the magnificent home burned to the ground, it also took the largest private butterfly collection in the world with it. After the loss of his home, he never returned to Grosse Pointe, and reportedly died heartbroken shortly after the fire. Charles P. Helin, American inventor and businessman (1905-1979). This testimonial was received from Charles' son, Wally: My father is known primarily to fisherman across the world. As a poor man with a ninth grade education, my father invented the "Flatish" fishing lure and in 1937 started the Helin Tackle Company. He started selling millions of them across the world. The Flatish is still today one the best selling artificial fishing lures. By 1942, he was a self-made millionaire and was living in a 37 room mansion by 1944. He was well known in the Grosse Pointe, Michigan area for his "rags to riches" story. He was, as far as I know, a lifetime atheist and I was raised as such. He used to tell me that when he died, I could "sweep his carcass off the back porch" and then go on about my business. http://www.mega.nu/atheist_quo tes_3.html For a description of the house and its sales history please see this 1951 Michigan Supreme Court decision: “The Helins purchased this property on land contract from the State land office board in 1945 for $40,000. It is adjacent to that involved in Moran v. Grosse Pointe Township, 1. 317 Mich 248, and has a 200-foot frontage on Lake St. Clair and a depth of 400 feet. A 55 × 105-foot mansion-type stone dwelling and a 4-car garage with 5 rooms on its second floor are located on the property. The house has 7 rooms and 2 lavatories on the first floor; 8 bedrooms and 6 bathrooms on second floor; and 5 rooms and 2 bathrooms on third floor. It was built in 1924 at a cost of $250,000. The original owner paid about $50,000 for the land.” http://www.icle.org/shared/asp /link_mlo.asp?cite=329%20Mich% 20396 Newspaper articles with picture on the fire that destroyed this mansion: Tragically, one of the fifty firefighters involved died when a chimney collapsed and he was struck by the bricks. http://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/d igitize/newspapers/gpnews/1975 -79/78/1978-03-23.pdf#xml=http ://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/dtsea rch2.asp?cmd=pdfhits&DocId=215 6&Index=C%3a%5cProgram%20Files %5cdtSearch%20Developer%5cUser Data%5cGPNEWS&HitCount=2&hits= 586+587+&hc=184&req=%22charles +helin%22 | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 153 Registered: 10-2003 |
Patrick, Sorry about my repeating some of the information that you posted, such as the lawsuit and photograph. I had just quickly scanned your post and did not see the 2 links. Keep up the great posts on local history and architecture, they are much appreciated. | ||
Mpmoore10 Member Username: Mpmoore10 Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2007 |
To Everyone, I just figured out how to work this, I am a longtime Grosse Pointer, long family history etc. I know a lot about, and have been in many of the homes discussed so far so if anyone has any questions I will answer to the best of my ability. In regard to the Dody Ford estate on Provencal, Dody was Elena Ford's great-Aunt (Josephine "Dody" was Henry Ford II's Younger sister and his daughter Charlotte is Elena's mom) They did not merely rip her house down. They saved many things from the original estate and are planning on using them again in a 20,000 sq. foot house being built in the near future, it will not be only a garage. Look forward to questions and I will give answers to the best of my knowledge. Thanks. ~WPM | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3864 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dream, which house is on the Helin site now??? | ||
Mpmoore10 Member Username: Mpmoore10 Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2007 |
The Kenneth Meade house, for sale for over 8 million dollars | ||
Ocmobilexec Member Username: Ocmobilexec Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2007 |
I was a freshman at GPSHS in '78, we lived on Audubon. I remember riding my bike down Windmill Pte. Drive to watch the mansion burn down. |
