  Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 38 Registered: 07-2006 |
UM board of regents will be considering a proposal for dorms for up to 400 students: http://www.mlive.com/newslogs/ fljournal/index.ssf?/mtlogs/ml ive_flintjournalextra/archives /2006_09.html#189317 | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2006 |
Just started reading this forum yesterday. I lived in Flint for 20 odd years. Now I don't, but I visit about 4 times a year. Does anyone know who came up with the slogan "Flint, more cars than people"? They are selling magnets and tshirts at Bishop airport. I know Flint is vehicle city, but am I just the only one that thinks this slogan has some humor in it... sort of like Flint making fun of Flint? It just doesn't sound very positive to me. Although I did buy a magnet, so humor may be a good slant. Just so you know where I stand, I am very for renovation of downtown. I remember when Genessee Valley came into being and downtown's stores slowly left the area. I've always wanted to see the Durant be a dorm for UM. I love all the old houses of Flint (basically anything with pewabic tile). I knew of many people who had started businesses in downtown in the 80's but they've since moved to other citys as well... am not sure the details as to why they moved, but I always felt like they couldn't get the people to downtown. So I think it's great that they are creating lofts for living. My mother when she heard about it wondered... where are these people going to park and where is the grocery store? It's too bad Dales moved out of the area... because I think they could be thriving there now. The point of a city is to be able to walk, and not have to drive everywhere to get grocerys, go to the theatre, restaurant, etc. I know Flint is vehicle city, and I'm no urban planner, but I would think to bring a thriving downtown back with people living there, etc, you need the basics (grocery, drug store, books, theatre)... like what it used to have. I think the biggest stickler in Flints history is the parking issue. I remember back in the 70's my mother complaining because you could never find a place to park in downtown Flint, and you had to pay to park whereas in Genesee Valley, parking was free. That was her main reason for not shopping downtown. Now it seems like there is parking everywhere, but I've never seen those lots filled. I know visiting 4 times a year isn't a great sample set, so please let me know if you've seen otherwise. So basically I wanted to ask is, where is the good PR for Flint. The Farmers Market is a living example, but to get the message out there... where is it? Because the slogans at Bishop airport ("Flint the place to be") isn't really working. I would have to say that I get more inspiration from the new FAYGO signs than anything else. There's my 2 cents.. I'll try to post some pictures I took in August later... | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1422 Registered: 11-2003 |
Same kind of questions you see asked about Detroit all the time  . Over on Church stree there is a small grocery store in an old house called "The Grainery" so that answers the grocery question and it is pretty obvious that the parking question is moot, look at all the surface lots available. Also all of these buildings being renovated into apartments must have dedicated parking for their residents to get a bank loan (See the thread on the GAR building, Ndavies comments). It really is to bad that Dales closed because I think they just missed out on the resurgence after languishing through the lean years. Hopefully the planned city parking garage is still in the works for the flat lot by Buckham Alley Theater. With Rowe Inc. moving into the Saginaw side of that block the parking will really be needed. Also I hope the McCree Building's (former Montgomery Wards now a court house for those not in the area) ramp is knocked down and rebuilt like the plans I have heard floated around, thins time with ground floor retail. That really is a dead block with blank walls stretching the whole span, not to mention that hideous skywalk. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1423 Registered: 11-2003 |
Oh and welcome to the board Grumkin. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1424 Registered: 11-2003 |
Oh, and welcome to the board Grumkin. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2006 |
Another flipping parking garage!?! Is that all Flint knows how to build? What's wrong with Genessee Tower's garage? Or the old Hyatt's garage? Parking Garages are eyesores... flat parking is also an eyesore, but at least you have the sky and you can try to landscape with trees. Why can't we renovate garages that are already there? I don't get it. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2006 |
I've got about 16 photos taken of downtown Flint from August just before the Crim. I'll post a few at a time, if anyone is interested. I don't want to inundate this forum and I don't have an external website to post on... yet. My first posted photos however, will be from the surrounding areas of Flint. If anyone knows what happened or what may happen to these areas, I'd be interested in seeing something happen soon. Not sure if my captions will show, so the first is my old dentist office (next to the old Sorrentos)... what happened! The other was taken in May of this year where the old Chevrolet site was near Kettering. Is there a Guiness entry for World's largest paved fenced in piece of Flint?   | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2006 |
Oh, and Gumby, I may have skipped over it, but did you say Tom's coney island for a restaurant recommendation and not Angelo's Coney Island? I've never stepped into Tom's, but Angelo's was a staple... that is if it still exists. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2006 |
Here are a few positive posts as well. Since the captions don't appear to be working for me, I'll try to describe them. The first is the renovated lofts and it's block, then there's the CB ball, then Genessee Towers, and finally Halo Burger (why doesn't their website sell tshirts?)... boggle boggle boggles! These photos aren't great... I took them from my car on a Sunday morning in August... but perhaps better than nothing for those that don't visit the area often.     | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 39 Registered: 07-2006 |
My dad says the same thing about downtown, even today, that the biggest problem is parking. his solution is to tear down every other block on each side of saginaw, checkerboard style, with a flat lot on each. i thought he was joking. he wasn't. needless to say, i was speechless. personally, i don't mind a parking garage with ground floor retail, although i wouldn't want any rampant destruction for it. but i'll take one garage over half a dozen flat lots any day - one eyesore is better than six. grumkin, the original angelos still exists so far as i know, although i believe all the attempted franchises have closed, except maybe for the one in courtland center. their website claims the one at vanslyke and bristol is open, but last i knew it was long gone. either they reopened or don't update their website. and welcome to the forum, and thanks for the pics. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2006 |
Yes, one parking garage is great when you compare with what is there currently (water pavillion parking being the main issue)... especially if it has ground floor retail... is that what they are building at the buckham alley lot? I'm all for ground floor retail. As a woman, I must admit, I feel safer parking on a flat lot than in a parking structure... unless I know that structure is monitored with security, etc. As much as I hate that waterpavillion parking lot, I usually parked there whenever I went to any stores downtown. As for the photos....but wait there's more.... Here are some of the Durant Hotel and surrounding buildings. Also, a long view shot of the Capitol (theatre that is).     | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 43 Registered: 07-2006 |
on the rare occasion i actually go downtown, i usually park in that same lot, grumkin. mostly it's because of inexperience with the area, and downtown areas in general, having grown up and worked and played in suburbs my whole life. when i hear things like 'the hyatt garage' or any other garage with the name of the nearby business/building on it - is that still public parking? or only for hyatt (for example) customers? what about the um-flint garages? am i gonna pull up to those and find that i need some parking sticker or something? it sounds completely ignorant, and i admit it is - but honestly, it's probably the number one reason i don't go into more downtown areas, cause i just can't be bothered with it (on the other hand, i can't be bothered to deal with miller road either, and avoid that too). i wouldn't be surprised if i'm not the only one - the result of a generation of people who have grown up avoiding downtowns, and used to having acres of lots right next to where they are going. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1425 Registered: 11-2003 |
As far as I know the Parking ramp proposed near Buckham Alley will contain ground floor retail. I wouldn't recomend parking in Genesee Towers garage because even though there are no gates blocking the entrance it is closed and a hazard due to falling debris, it needs extensive repairs from what I understand. Parking garages are needed especially if we are going to fill up all the buildings downtown. Look how packed the lots are right now during business hours and a lot of the buildings are vacant. It isn't going to get any better without going vertical with parking. Plus parking garages in my opinion help deter property crime, more often than not a parking garage has an attendent to help keep an eye on the cars in the garage making it more difficult for someone to break into your car. The nice thing about the proposed garages is that they are planned on lots that are already vacant so nothing will be destroyed for them outside of the crappy old garage behind the McCree building. I have also heard of possible plans for U of M to redo the Harrison St. Ramp that the faculty currently use. Scottr I am glad your dad is not in charge of city planning. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 45 Registered: 07-2006 |
so am i, gumby! on the flip side, when we were discussing gb's 'town center' plan, i suggested they reduce the speed limit and number of lanes on saginaw, to make it more pedestrian friendly, while thru traffic would either slow down, or avoid it entirely, mostly via the practically unused dort highway extension. he thought that was a horrible idea, and would kill gb's downtown. (what downtown?) if an area doesn't have acres of parking lots and five lane 45mph+ highways leading everywhere, he's convinced it's doomed. btw, at western michigan, i actually was majoring in urban planning. i think that conversation convinced him it was a good thing i didnt finish school. he's probably worried now that i'm going back, possibly for the same thing! | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 7 Registered: 09-2006 |
"Scottr I am glad your dad is not in charge of city planning" Maybe he was, and that's why the Water Pavillion bulldozed buildings for flat parking. I guess am a bit testy about this because my great grandfathers house was sold and destroyed to become an empty flat parking lot. Has anyone heard anything about the Central High School building? Is that going to be demolished? I had heard a rumor like that... Why can't that be converted into senior housing... they could walk to the library and arts center... it could be a great facility. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 8 Registered: 09-2006 |
Grand Blanc still has potential... they have that farmers market and playground, and Indian Hill is such a great neighborhood. I dream of having sidewalks where I live now. It's true Saginaw is a nightmare to drive... and even more of a nightmare to cross. It's a pity Cruz and Muers is in that plaza and not in an older looking building (or what's left of them)... but again... where would you park? I suppose while studying urban planning, parking has always been an issue. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1426 Registered: 11-2003 |
As far as I know nothing is happening to Central High School seeing as how it is still a functioning school. I think closing it was just an option that they threw out. Plus to top it off Flint schools are experienceing an overcrowding situation at this time. Yeah knocking down that city block for flat parking was not the brightest of ideas. Many of the buildings still had viable businesses in them as well. I also hate the idea I see thrown around about turning it into a "Town Square" park. Just what we need another parh that the city won't maintain. I mean lok just a block away at Riverbank park if you need to see how well we take care of our parks. THe only parks that look good downtown are taken care of by U of M Flint (The part of riverbank park on the campus and Willson Park). The only park the city seems to know how to take proper care of is Kearsley Park.
Just remember that by building a parking garage mor of those Flat lots will be opened up for actual buildings | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2006 |
What are the Flintoids feelings toward Michael Moore. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2006 |
His mockumentarys should be taken as humor. Instead they are taken as truth. Anyone can edit material to support his own theory... statistics can be manipulated in the same way. Personally I think he makes money by complaining about things. Good for him. Bad for Flint and anyone having to do with his films. My mother says "he's not even from Flint, he's from Burton". ... so that's two opinions. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 89 Registered: 03-2006 |
I have an idea for a new Movie. Instead of Roger & Me, it would be Michael & me. Follow him around filming and trying to get into his little world. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 655 Registered: 11-2003 |
Gumby wrote, "i don't think it CAN get much worse job-wise." It can and it probably will. Delphi East is on the list for closure. The 3800 engine plant at Buick will close in 2008. Combined, that's at least 3,500 jobs, not counting supplier and spinoff jobs. The Truck Plant is doing OK now, but not long-term if truck sales don't pick up. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 10 Registered: 09-2006 |
Yes, Delphi closures are going to hit hard. Seems like the only jobs now are in the healthcare industry. My parents had a really tough time selling their house... on the market for a year, and then numerous price cuts. And yet, new houses are still being built. Who's buying them? | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 91 Registered: 03-2006 |
Everything is for sale right now. Nobody buying. The number of foreclousers are really on the rise. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2006 |
Kenp - maybe it would be a better movie if you made a movie TRYING to meet Michael Moore, journalistically showing the mis-information he's been posting in all his films, and seeing if he returns your phone calls. It would be a parody ...this time Michael would be Roger Smith. I would go and see that movie. Otherwise, I think if you just followed him around, it could get pretty boring. I don't like to quash creativity though, so maybe I'm wrong about that. I think he lives on the Upper West Side in NYC... so at least you'd get a trip to NY out of it. ;) | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 92 Registered: 03-2006 |
Of course the movie would be parody. It would be be a great idea for some young filmmaker. And mess with him similar to Roger Smith. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 12 Registered: 09-2006 |
I still say Flint can come out of this though. It seems every neighborhood I've seen that is down, has come back by artists. Flint still has the Art Festival... perhaps some free studio space in one of these buildings could build a cooperative... or maybe there already is one.. I know there's that gallery in the farmers market. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 13 Registered: 09-2006 |
My personal belief is that if artists can afford to live in Flint, then downtown has a chance... am not sure those renovated lofts are affordable though... but perhaps there are other housing applications that could combine rental studio space with living space. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 14 Registered: 09-2006 |
More photos from August of downtown. Rather than write up descriptions, if anyone has any questions, I'll clarify. Am including the Faygo ads because I just feel they are the best PR campaign Flint has for making people feel like it is a fun city. If anyone feels these ads don't belong on this forum, please feel free to delete them.      | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1427 Registered: 11-2003 |
Actually Burnsie that wasn't something I said here, I remember reading it but it wasn't me. I realize that things will probably get a little worse manufacturing job wise around here. I don't think they will get much worse though, not much further to fall. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 47 Registered: 07-2006 |
grumkin, actually michael moore is from davison. even ran for (and i think won) a city council seat. although given that they so far have refused to add his name to the entrance signs to the city, and turned his name down for the davison alumni hall of fame (or some such thing), i think that probably says not too many are too fond of him here either. personally, i think he's a windbag. he talks a lot of crap about gm, but hasn't done a thing for flint himself, except make the area look even worse than it is. he seems to forget, flint wouldn't even be where it's at if it wasn't for GM. (not that i'm excusing them) I'm not sure who's buying those houses, grumkin, but your parents aren't the only ones having problems. the new house starts have slowed, though. unfortunately, i think the market is going to get even worse before it gets better. Burnsie, that was me that said that about it not getting much worse job-wise. i should have clarified, i was actually taking those closures into account, given that we already know those jobs are gone - i think we can safely assume it about delphi, even though it hasn't been officially announced it's closing. once they are gone, there really isn't much else to take. I'm not overly concerned about the truck plant - heavy duty crew cab trucks are more of a specialized thing, usually purchased by those that seriously NEED it, rather than those that want a truck in case they might need to move a couch sometime in the next 3 years. plus with the investments made in the truck plant, the engine plant, and metal fab, i don't think gm is moving out of those any time soon. (i probably should keep my mouth shut though!) | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 656 Registered: 11-2003 |
Oops! I must have posted that message in too much of a hurry. My apologies to Gumby and Scottr for mis-attributing the quote. I think that trying to predict how sales of Flint-built trucks will fare is only slightly less chancy than betting which slot machines at a casino are "hot" at any given time. I remember how in April 1995 GM announced a huge investment to expand the body shop at Buick City, then ultimately decided it only needed two large car assembly plants (Orion and Hamtramck) and decided to close Buick City. But all the investments announced for the Bristol /Van Slyke plants have come through. Scottr, I echo your Michael Moore sentiments. He's a blowhard carpetbagger. He's not from Flint, though has done nothing to correct the widespread mis-assumption that he is. Davison is no more Flint than Flushing is. Remember in Roger and Me when he said that Flint made Cadillacs?! Flint has built Buicks, Chevys, Oldsmobiles (Delta 88's at Buick City) Pontiacs (Bonnevilles at Buick City), and GMC's, but to the best of my knowledge, never any Cadillacs | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 48 Registered: 07-2006 |
As I've stated before, I don't get downtown as much as i'd like - my work and school just don't really permit me the time, although that obviously will change when i transfer to um flint. On the few trips i do make through there, i usually try to take a look at specific buildings that have caught my interest, but similar to a 'forest for the trees' effect, i had never really gotten a good feel for how downtown really fits together, or even the atmosphere of the area. I decided to take a trip down there today, to take a look around, and try to see it with different eyes than i have before, to get more of a 'feel' for how things are coming along. I took davison road (eventually hamilton) out there. strangely, for as long as i've lived here, i realized i've never been on that road west of averill in my adult life, and probably not even when i was a kid. seeing the acres of empty land where buick city was, was definitely a shocker, i've never seen it from anywhere but 475. a lot more depressing that close. a line from a soul asylum song went through my head 'this flat land used to be a town'. seemed appropriate. some of the buildings i saw seemed to epitomize the comparison i've heard (thanks michael moore) to baghdad. somehow i drove past saginaw (i think i was distracted looking at a building at the corner of saginaw and hamilton, and forgot exactly where i was at) and drove through to mlk, turning south there. overall that first part of the trip was very depressing, although there were still signs of hope. heading south into downtown though, it was completely different. about when i approached the durant hotel it seemed like an entirely different atomosphere, like things were already getting better. maybe that's influenced from reading things on this board and others, and in the paper, but it really felt like things were turning around. the durant hotel becoming dorms seems an even better plan than i had thought after seeing it today, and really realizing its relative location to the northbank building and the rest of UM-flint. (for some reason, i hadn't really noticed it before.) there were people out and about, although not as many as i'd like to see. but that didn't change the fact that i felt like it was cleaner, and more active than i have ever noticed before. don't get me wrong - it still has a LONG way to go, but i really do get the feeling that it has a good chance to turn around. hopefully next time i will have time to get out and look around more, and maybe take some pictures. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 657 Registered: 11-2003 |
I went by Buick City on 475, every day to and from high school at Powers Catholic on Carpenter Rd, Aug. 93- May '97. I always enjoyed seeing the big lot full of shiny new cars, the big powerhouse, and the CSX locomotive switching the auto rack tracks. The area is just so drastically different now. I can't get over how you can see all the way to Saginaw St. from 475, whereas before it was a wall of factories. | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 15 Registered: 09-2006 |
I agree with Burnsie/Scottr on the MMoore sentiment. Sorry, my mother got the burton/davison thing wrong... she's allowed. Scottr - I'll have to check out that soul asylum song... do you have the title? Usually the song going through my head while in Flint is "Hoover Factory" by Elvis Costello.... I was reading a forum on urbanplanet and someone was talking about Central and Whittier being torn down to create a new huge 7-12 school. While I never went to Central, it's architecture is worth saving. Can anyone confirm this? I haven't joined that forum yet, or at least I don't think I have... the person mentioning it said it was a great idea, which totally confounds me. http://www.urbanplanet.org/for ums/lofiversion/index.php/t871 3.html | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 49 Registered: 07-2006 |
burnsie, I was pretty sure Caddies had never been built in flint either. i think he's mixed up because until last year Detroit-hamtramck produced lesabres, bonnevilles, and devilles. (now the dts and lucerne - my plant supplies them). i figure he assumed if they build it, buick city must have. however, isuzu medium duty trucks are also built in flint, believe it or not. it's just a badge-engineered gmc medium duty commercial truck. i was just on the phone with my mother, and i mentioned this conversation about michael moore. she had nothing good to say either, and related that when my brother started college at notre dame, when he said he was from flint, people acted like he was from a third world country - and i bet they would never have heard of flint if it wasn't for him. it's my opinion that moore used our problems to his own benefit, made his bucks, but has done nothing in return. if anyone knows of any way he has benefited the flint area, please let me know. i love to hear that he has done something good. that said, i do feel that even though the davison and the other suburbs are certainly not flint (some are nearly the opposite in many aspects), and don't have near the problems of the city, we are all in this together, and a healthy flint will benefit everyone. we all have an interest in it, so i would hope that no one would discount a voice simply because it comes from a suburbanite. but i won't go to the point of claiming flint as my hometown when it clearly is not. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1428 Registered: 11-2003 |
I am against anything said on Urban planet Grumkin having been one of the biggest posters on the Flint site and getting banned for stupid reasons. I think that is just speculation about getting rid of Whittier and Central. I would be a little suprised if it did happen based on the current sentiment around town about historic preservation. I actually like Whittier better than Central. If you want some pretty good discussion on Flint try www.urbanflint.com it is the site I contribute to about flint and we are always looking for more enthusiastic Flintites. A little self serving on my part but I want to see urban flint do well, or at least better than UP. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1429 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thankfully I was born and partially raised in Flint (up until kindergarten) so I can claim it as my hometown. As for my feelings on Moore you can see my discussion about him earlier in this thread. BTW I am impressed and proud of us for making this into a thread needing more than one page. Yeah! | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 50 Registered: 07-2006 |
grumkin - that song is 'black gold', off of the album 'grave dancers union', track 2. they were talking about those huge 7-12 schools (i think another was supposed to be at southwestern academy), but i don't think anyone was all that happy about the idea, although most were just concerned about 12 year olds alongside 18 year olds. most of the building was to be underground to save on heating costs - that was one of the main reasons for it! i'm pretty sure that was the old superintendents idea, and that thread is a year and a half old. i'm not sure if it's still being considered however. i certainly wouldn't support it - central is gorgeous, although i would like to see it restored. not likely though. i also saw homedale today, and was impressed with it's architecture as well, like many of flint's older schools. however, it's not particularly my place to say much - i don't live there, and as much as i love the architecture, a school's number one priority is education. if we're spending a fortune just keeping the buildings warm, what's left to teach the kids with? | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 16 Registered: 09-2006 |
I agree with you Scottr that we're all in this together. It's just if someone is publicly bad-mouthing Flint (Like MMoore does), someone else is going to cite the technicality if they're not actually from Flint. I would gather that most people who aren't from Flint are FOR Flint... in which case, who cares where you're from. I was born in Flint, but grew up in Flint Township so technically I'm not a city kid. That doesn't mean I haven't missed having sidewalks since I was 4. Everyone has their reasons for supporting... just not sure the point of shooting down... except in MMoore's case - to make money. I do accept the fact that for this generation MMoore did put Flint on the map. When I roomed blind at college my roomate (from NY) thought I had grown up on a farm. Anyone of my parents' generation knew Flint as a prospering town. So maybe it's like Madonna says... any PR is good PR. Gumby, I actually posted on your site (because I couldn't figure out how to get on this site, and was asking you how). The page I originally got was from google and didn't include the left sidebar. So please delete those posts. I kept getting pop-ups ... not big on the pop-ups. ;) | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1432 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thats cool Grumkin. The pop ups are from the bravenet server that I was using to have a forum page. Obviously since you and me are the only ones to have ever posted on that forum I think I am going to delete it and just provide a link to the Urban Flint Forum. I have already ran that by the guy who runs that forum and he was cool with that. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 323 Registered: 12-2005 |
I lived near downtown Flint from Aug. 1971 thru Dec. 1973, while attending General Motors Institute (now Kettering University). Four of us students rented a house on Lyon Place, right near the intersection of Third Ave. and Detroit (MLK). Our house was across the street from the Third Ave. Fish and Chips and just down the street from a little place near Atwood Stadium that sold pasties (the Yooper version of "good-to-go" food). We would do all of our grocery shopping (canned chili, mac and cheese, Hamburger Helper, etc.) at the Hamady Brothers grocery, which was just two blocks away at the northeast corner of Third Ave. and North Grand Traverse. This was a old residential area nestled on the north edge of downtown, consisting of large old homes, many of which had been turned into either rental housing or converted into commercial uses like funeral parlors or hairdressing shops. It was a quiet neighborhood - except for the 24/7 sounds of ambulances heading to Hurley and fire trucks leaving on runs from their station on Detroit (MLK) - and we never had any problems the entire time we lived there. I would often ride my bicycle around downtown after classes were done for the day and I can tell you that even though the downtown commercial district was still largely intact in the early 1970's (prior to Genesee Valley Mall), even then you could fire a cannon down any downtown street after 6 PM and not hit a soul. As "poor" college students, we didn't have the cash to frequent very many eating and drinking establishments, particularly downtown. Most of our discretionary spending took place at the many fast food restaurants located near Ballenger Hwy. and Miller Rd. Traffic on Miller Rd. between Ballenger and I-75 was a mess, even in those days. When we would splurge for a sit-down restaurant meal it was usually at the Texan (Clio near Pasadena?) or at Walli's (Pierson Rd. and I-75). Several years later in 1981, I found myself back in Flint, working at the Fisher Body No. 1 Plant on S. Saginaw (between Hemphill and Atherton Roads). I was working there temporarily during the launch of the new 1982 Chevrolet Celebrity when one day, I got the call that my wife had gone into labor with our first child. Sixteen years later, I was transferred by GM to work at the same site, except by then, it had been transformed into the Great Lakes Technology Center. My office was in the "A" Building, which had been the assembly plant's administration building. This building and factory had been built by Billy Durant for his Durant Motors Corporation and his personal office and conference room on the first floor had been restored by GM to it's original 1923 glory. After four years of commuting daily from Sterling Hts. I was transferred back to Warren in 2000 and the balance of the GM employees at the Great Lakes Technology were transferred out of Flint within the next two years or so. GM has never built a Cadillac in Flint, but the same could be said about Lansing up until 2002. I was intimately involved in the Cadillac CTS/SRX/STS programs, and I can assure you, it was the cooperative approach of the Lansing UAW Locals that was the deciding factor to build the new Cadillac Lansing Grand River assembly plant on a very "brownfield" site in Lansing. Flint could have been a contender for that "brownfield" plant if only their UAW local leadership had not been "stuck on stupid". The Flint economy needs to revitalize itself based on the service, knowledge and educational economies, because new outside investment in manufacturing operations just ain't gonna happen while the area is still dominated by the obsolete local UAW group-think. (Message edited by Mikeg on September 30, 2006) | ||
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson Post Number: 35 Registered: 06-2006 |
The incident Mikeg calls, "Stuck on stupid" was the unions opposition to "outside contractors", probably meaning non union and the Lansing plant agreed to having a lot fewer workers and outside contactors. GM invested how many millions in re-vamping the Buick plant, and taking the City of Flint for however many millions in tax abatements, still closed the factory. As far as the union workers were concerned, they turned out a quality, award winning products (LaSabre and 3800 engine) for GM during the Buick city era. And it still wasn't enough for management to keep the factory open. Now it's an urban prairie where there had been employment for thousands of local people for decades. I think this problem has many different angles to it, and it shouldn't all be placed on the shoulders of the union members or union management. I feel that the management of GM has to look more towards themselves rather than point their fingers at the unions. They should have listened to Ross Perot more instead of paying him the "greenmail". http://findarticles.com/p/arti cles/mi_m3165/is_n7_v28/ai_124 85653 | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 324 Registered: 12-2005 |
Yes Mama_jackson, the massive decline of GM's market share has many different angles to it and many different parties who should shoulder the blame for it. Poor decision-making by arrogant, egotistical, know-it-all GM executives such as Roger Smith and Ross Perot nearly drove GM bankrupt in late 1992. That management style no longer exists at GM and those who practiced it are long gone. I cannot understand why you would think that Mr. Perot could have somehow produced a more favorable outcome for the GM workers in Flint. However, the way forward requires all parties to set aside past differences and work together when opportunities arise, something the local Flint UAW leadership could not bring themselves to do when the CTS program came about. The result was that a product and assembly plant which was designed and engineered on the south side of Flint ended up becoming the first of two new assembly plants worth of new GM products now being built by Lansing area UAW workers. Believe me, the preliminary plant layout we did using a Flint site had quite a few advantages over the tight Lansing site that was eventually chosen to build the CTS. It's a shame that it never got to see the light of day. | ||
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson Post Number: 36 Registered: 06-2006 |
Au contraire, that old management style (and attitude) is still alive! The sense of entitlement that management has is still very much alive and kicking! The theory that I've gone to college for X years, and I deserve not to work as hard as you, because you didn't go to college is still very much in the offices and plants. Our old family farm is on property in the GM proving grounds, I have worked at Kettering, back in the ole GMI days, worked in GM and DCX offices, and my hubby just retired from Buick. So, I think my qualifications to speak out about this is well founded. Believe me, the entitlement attitude is still there. Also, another attitude that I don't think will ever go away is: Blame everything on the UAW. Sounds good. Maybe someone who hasn't seen management and engineering in action, will believe it. GM is still following Roger Smith's road map for the company. Years ago, Roger said he will make Flint a ghost town. Well, guess what? He and those in management that followed in the years after him, did. To find an assembly job in the area is difficult. Mostly these jobs are outside of the area, Fenton, Holly, Grand Blanc-nothing much at all in Flint. I think it's time to look beyond GM for Flint's resurrection. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 52 Registered: 07-2006 |
the community foundation of greater flint announced they (along with uptown reinvestment and uptown six) are renovating 2 buildings downtown for their new headquarters on the second floor, using the first for retail and the third for 2 lofts. more great news for downtown! their plans look like a HUGE improvement over the current facades, which besides their sad shape, were hideous to begin with (to my eyes, anyways) i'm sure this will help first street lofts too, since it will give residents there a better view than the side of a deteriorating building. i'll be interested in seeing what retail moves in there. work is expected to start before the end of this year, with occupancy by the end of '07. http://cfgf.org/FAQ.htm (thanks to the urbanflint forum for the tip) | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1435 Registered: 11-2003 |
The building that the Community Foundation is going to be moving to is in the following pictures.  It is the one on the left with the ugly ass tiles covering the facade. The tiles will be removed to restore the facade that lies underneath.  The arched windows and doors will be opened up and reused once again. The funny thing is the arched doors have been bricked up since the early 1900's leaving me to question, just how old is this building? | ||
Grumkin Member Username: Grumkin Post Number: 17 Registered: 09-2006 |
Does anyone know if there's zoning restrictions on what moves into downtown Flint? Where I'm from, there used to be a grocery store, but that was bought up by CVS, and so it is a CVS now, and everyone has to travel 20 minutes away to grocery shop. Our town didn't have restrictions on retail, so I wondered if this Flint redevelopment project has thought that far ahead. It's great to have retail, but if not mixed use, downtown will still remain empty. Perhaps I'm putting the cart before the horse though... but I just thought I'd throw that question out there.... Am really excited to see the Dales/Bakers renovation... the Dales 1st st facade work looks amazing!... esp the arched doors. They mentioned alot of historical pieces in Dales 2nd story... will that be preserved in some way? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1437 Registered: 11-2003 |
I do not know of any zoning restrictions. |
