  Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3452 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.118.75 |
The news about the raid on the largest urban farm in L.A., the threads about the tall weeds not being cut throughout Detroit, and the demolition of structures leaving hundreds, if not thousands, of vacant lots with practically nil economic value or possibility of new structures being erected, has been on my mind lately. Instead of weed-strewn lots, is there a possibility of using those empty acres of land to raise crops that will employ people, supply foodstuffs to those who need it or create a new source of cash with the sale of the produce from land that has no near-term development potential? I'm not suggesting we turn Detroit into a permanent agrarian center, but possibly a way to utilize a resource we have in abundance until other usages for that land become available. Why or why not? I'll appreciate your input. ps Tomato plants are very efficient at pulling heavy metal pollutants from the soil, one of the benefits of this wacky proposal, just don't eat them for a year or two if they were grown on an industrial site. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3871 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
This idea is tossed around every once in awhile, and more community gardens to make neighborhoods more self-sufficient sounds great, but wouldn't we're not talking about tilling virgin lands, here, rather polluted lands. I wonder how healthy and safe the food would be, and especially if you're talking medium-to-large-scale farming? Then, you'd have to consider how large a farm as to be to be viable, and all kinds of things. This would take some large-scale land consolidation. I don't know; I'm not a big fan of the idea, and never have been. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
The Cornfields in Los Angeles:  | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1516 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.40 |
Already being done: http://www.geocities.com/detro itag/ http://www.sustainabledetroit. org/network/category.php?Categ ory=1 | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 14 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.21.43.26 |
How about growing biofuel crops? Then it wouldn't matter how polluted the soil was. The toxins would not get into the oil use to produce ethanol or biodiesel. In addition, you would decrease the transportation cost to get the crops to the biofuel processing plant that is being built in Techtown (which also decreases the transportation costs to the potential consumer). The plants would help to remediate the contamination of the soil. It would also look pretty. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1518 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.40 |
Phytoremediation does result in the toxins being drawn up into the seed or fruit of the plant. That's why most phytoremediation projects result in the plant being hauled off to the landfill instead of being reused. While not ideal, it's a lot cheaper and much more environmentally friendly to do phytoremediation than digging out and replacing soil. I don't think someone could state with certainty that the toxin wouldn't get into the production of fuel. I do think however that the production of biofuel crops on vacant land in Detroit, especially for Tech Town, would be a novel idea that would at least bring some tax revenue to the city. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 878 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Nainrouge...didn't you and I just submit a federal grant application for the sort of program you're proposing? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 141 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
I've actually taken a tour of urban farms in Detroit. Did you know Detroit has a 4-H club on McClellen Street? http://www.detroitagriculture. org/Calendarof%20Events.htm Did you know that off of the Jeffries/Rosa Parks Freeway there is a farm attached to a high school for pregnant teens/ mothers? This teaches the mothers nurturing techniques many of them lack. http://www.michigandaily.com/m edia/storage/paper851/news/200 6/03/30/News/School.Caters.To. Detroit.Moms-1765566.shtml?nor ewrite200606150934&sourcedomai n=www.michigandaily.com http://www.cyss.org/pdf/Vibran tSchoolsHealthful.pdf | ||
Scardetroit Member Username: Scardetroit Post Number: 58 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 63.236.225.250 |
See Farm-A-Lot Program @ the following link: http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/nc h/neighborhood_serv.htm Also: http://www.detroitagriculture. org/ | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 871 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.215.246.115 |
started with this project: http://www.adamah.org/ thru a design project at udm school of architecture, kyong park, and the center for urban ecology. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1522 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.40 |
While the Adamah project and its front page article in the Metro Times brought urban ag. to a wider audience, Detroit Ag. Network, Ferguson Acad., 4-H and others existed long before Adamah (a rather ironic thing if you think about the name there). In fact the groups mentioned above were the inspiration and launching pad for the Adamah vision. Adamah created a vision that helped all these groups realize how they could work and connect together as well as create a green revolution in a city that doesn't see a reason for it. (Message edited by BVos on June 15, 2006) | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3453 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.154 |
Bvos, etal, Thanks for the links, I knew about some of the organizations, but appreciate the info about those I was not aware. Each day as I walk through Delray to my job passing those fields of weeds and trash, I've come to envision those empty blocks filled with raspberries, corn, cabbages, or any crops that might provide a better usage of that land than weeds and dumped trash at such a small cost, adding benefits to our City. | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 130 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.77.166.98 |
There is a nice community garden off of Cochrane Street in the north Corktown area on an empty corner lot that grows tomatoes, brussel sprouts and the like, although I haven't been by there this year to see what's growing. But it illustrates that you don't necessarily need a huge tract of land to produce a lot of food to feed a neighborhood. And vast tracts of the city are seriously undernourished and underserved by quality produce markets. I had such wonderful garden plots in my backyard at my old Detroit house. The topsoil there is deep, rich and well-suited for growing. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 15 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Ummm, yes 1953, I did just submit a grant to the EPA to study the feasibility of biofuel farming in an urban environment. How did you know that? Are you reading my mail? Do you work for the NSA?  (Full disclosure - I work with 1953) BVOS - I talked to some folks at NextEnergy who told me that the toxins would not be in the oil produced for biofuel. The problem with phytoremediation is that you can't use the left over plant materials for anything. Most other biofuel production facilities use the left over materials to feed cattle and it produces a secondary revenue stream (note: we will have the only urban biofuel production facility. All others are in rural areas). In addition to tax revenue, the idea would also help clean up some toxic sites, improve the look of the city, improve air quality, potentially improve storm runoff, employ a few people, etc. Of course there are a lot of questions as well. Are there enough contiguous vacant lots? How do you get a combine downtown? What are some of the structures underground that would interfere with tilling, etc. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1529 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.34 |
I guess that's news to me. Most folks I know doing phytoremediation in Detroit do not use the plant material in any way. Their research shows it's not safe to use. Of course they're looking at it from a food/compost standpoint so that's probably a different safety standard that they're considering. On the eastside, there would be enough contiguous lots. You could probably find an underused/unused industrial building in the area to store a combine, tractor and farm implements in. If not, it doesn't cost that much to put up a machine shed. If you can find the money for a combine (it's unreal how much those things cost), you can definately find the money to buy/build a storage facility. Underground structures may be a bit tricky, but nothing that a community development organization wouldn't be able to help out with. If you get the grant, which sounds really cool, be sure to get in contact with the network at Sustainable Detroit (link posted above). They are an invaluable source of information and practicing professionals regarding urban ag., adaptive reuse and other sustainability issues. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 874 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.215.246.115 |
agreed bvos; good points. also at the time of adamah, there were some other design/solutions/cooperation with urban farmers such as the hay house. this specific project "took over" former drug/abandoned houses and used them as storage for hay farmed in the community. floor to ceiling filled with hay was quite a determent for anybody getting back into the house... | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 16 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
BVOS - yes, we are just looking at the oil produced, not the plant material. That material would have to be hauled off to an appropriate landfill site. The oil itself is not intended to be eaten but of course you don't want the toxins released into the air either. The people that we spoke to said that this would not be an issue. If we get the grant, we will definitely be in contact with the folks who have been active in this field for years. We also want to model the economic and social impact that this project might potentially have. Anyone have some pull at the EPA? -- Nain Rouge | ||
Kimmiann Member Username: Kimmiann Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 155.139.50.15 |
I love this idea! Would you keep us posted on your progress please? | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 17 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Currently, the grant has been submitted and we were told that we should know in six months. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3455 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.12.55 |
Nainrouge, Hoping all the best to you for your project. Keep us updated. I hesitantly posted this subject fully expecting to get a lot of "pie-in-the-sky" and "it's not Urban" jeers. It's good to know others are seriously examining this type of land use and hope to involve myself in this more than my backyard garden. If nothing else, as you said, "It would look pretty. I'm wondering, as so much of Detroit's vacant land was developed as residential, would that lessen many of our concerns about toxins in the soil in those areas? | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1533 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.50 |
Jams, the toxin problem would still have to be addressed, especially if it were to be developed as residential. The problem of old industrial land and its adjacent parcels is one of several reasons that land is sitting vacant with no plans for redevelopment. Developing residential property requires the highest standards for soil cleanliness. Nainrouge, I do believe the Sustainable Detroit groups have some contacts with the EPA. One I can think of works for the EPA in Chicago after transfering from the Detroit office. I'd give Jacob at WARM (a group that's part of Sus. Det.) a call. http://www.warmtraining.org/ | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 879 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Homes built more than thirty years ago may have contaminated the soil by leaving behind lead dust commonly produced through the use of lead paint. I bet there are other toxins from older housing materials as well. | ||
Hagglerock Member Username: Hagglerock Post Number: 244 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 12.214.243.66 |
Nainrouge and 1953, I am very interested in what you are doing esp. since I'm starting to make and run biodiesel in my diesel liberty. Who are you submitting your proposal though(if you can say) and where would be a good start to find more information on what you are doing, in particular within Michigan. This is something I see great potential in in the upcoming years. Good luck to the both of you! D | ||
Dillpicklesoup Member Username: Dillpicklesoup Post Number: 58 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 64.7.187.221 |
There is so much vacant land in Detroit- why not homestead? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3456 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.12.55 |
Homesteading is a completely different issue, and might be a possibility, but there is a huge difference btween planting crops on property with the City or owner permission and building permanent structures on other's property. Nainrouge,
If possible, could you elaborate a bit more about that plant or provide links. I chatted wih a few people involved in the ethanol industry tonight, they are unaware of of those plans and doubt, due to zoning restrictions, that location would be able to have a plant. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1541 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.38 |
1953, lead paint dust from demolished homes doesn't seem to be that big of an issue since it can easily be remedied with a good layer of topsoil. The real issue with improperly demolished homes is asbestos. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 20 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.21.43.26 |
From NextEnergy: "The establishment of a commercial biodiesel production facility to fuel Michigan's diesel fleets. Biodiesel Industries, the world's leader in biodiesel technology and development, is developing a state-of-the-art biodiesel production plant located just blocks away from NextEnergy Center." | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3457 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.219.20.253 |
Thanks Nainrouge, I appreciate that link. As I passed by that entire empty (empty of everything except 3foot grasses, weeds and refuse left by dumpers) block yesterday, my idealistic mind envisioned a field full of a crop that could have a positive economic impact on the City instead of the negative drain of mowing weeds (if that actually happened) and picking up the dumped trash. Bvos, Thanks again for those links especially \i {Sustainable Detroit.} | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 21 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.21.43.26 |
I always imagine sunflowers. Sunflowers are one of many potential biofuel crops. Maybe the sunflower could become the symbol of Detroit like the tulip is to Holland MI? Ok, now I am being too idealistic... Hagglerock - I realized that I didn't answer your question. To keep up with what is going on with biodiesel and other alternative fuels, keep an eye on NextEnergy. We are working together with them and they are doing stuff all the time in this field. http://www.nextenergy.org | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 650 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
Urban farming only works for small-scale projects. A local church or neighborhood block group can buy up a few vacant plots for farming, but it will never work on a large scale basis. Detroit has acres of empty land, but it is scattered around the city in small parcels. Any large-scale farming project would reqire the puchase of property from thousands of different land owners, relocation of thousands of residents and businesses, removal of miles of streetlights, fire hydrants, sidewalks, streets, and buildings. Clearing a few square miles of the most run-down ghettoes in Detroit for farming would cost billions. It is at least a billion dollars cheaper to purchase the same amount of open land 100 miles outside of Detroit. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 23 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.21.43.26 |
Hmmm yes, Erikd, I have heard some of these arguments before - but has anyone really looked into it? Do you have the statistics to back up your claim of billions of dollars? I have not encountered any such study and I have been looking. I bet if you give me a billion dollars, I could buy more than enough land, deal? Relocations might not be necessary depending on the choice of location. Take a look at a map of vacant lots in the city. I would not call that "scattered". What about large vacant industrial lots? The fact is that no one knows because no one has looked into it. The thinking is too out of the box for most people to even want to consider but that doesn't make it any less valid. I also think it is not the point to ask if land would be cheaper out 100 miles from Detroit. Of course it would be. So would land in Mexico. The question is whether is makes sense to transport the crops from 100 miles out into Detroit for processing. The fuel that the transport trucks would burn would potentially make the whole exercise pointless. Not to mention increased traffic, pollution, the cost of maintaining our road system, jobs going out of Detroit, etc. etc. Also there is the question of ancillary benefits and whether this is something that should be supported with public funds. Demolition of buildings is already something that is paid for with public funds. Tearing up old and unusable infrastructure such as old pipes and dangerous buildings increases the value of the land for ANY use. I think the idea warrants investigation. Unless someone has some hard data to refute it. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 655 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
You won't see a seroius study of this idea because it isn't even remotely feasible. Even if you could buy every single piece of property covering a large swath of the city, you still can't tear out all of the infrastructure that breaks it up. The freeways, water and sewer lines, power lines, phone lines, cable lines, major surface streets, rail lines, etc, can't just be torn out. All of these systems are part of a large network serving the entire region. The cost of re-routing all of that infrastructure would be billions.
The idea of urban farming, on any large-scale basis, is not valid. I hate to piss on the parade, but this one just doesn't work. Having said all of that, I think it is great for people to think "outside the box", and propose some radical ideas. This region needs some innovative thinking and creative solutions to pull us out of our economic quagmire. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 74 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
Erikd- We all have to think outside the box! The old paradigms and conventional wisdom do not have to apply anymore. Large, mechanized farms are not necessarily more productive than small farms. All the small farmer has to do is practice "intercropping", which involves growing another crop between the rows of the first crop. This should more than make up for the inefficiencies associated with having to work small plots of land that are ringed by concrete curbs. Of course, intercropping requires a lot more manual labor, but since unemployment in Mich. is the highest in the USA, there should be plenty of willing workers to help get things started. Once the urban demonstration farms start producing crops, then they can become eligible for Commodity Program Payments from the US Dept. of Agriculture, which will help make urban farming economically competitive with their rural counterparts. Finally, once it can be proven that urban farming can make money, the "social justice" folks will get called in to help landless laborers (and jobless factory workers) organize occupations of idle land belonging to wealthy landlords. Of course, their definition of "idle land" and "wealthy" might be a little different than those who hold title to subdivided lots, so things could get a little messy at this point. However, if they call in enough Hollywood stars to assist in the occupations, popular public opinion will fall in line and unlike a Third World country, the US will see their first "land reform" in urban areas, which will then spread to the countryside. You see, urban farming has less to do with growing crops to sell at Eastern Market (or to Archer Daniels Midland) and more to do with reclaiming the urban prairie and putting it to the highest and best use of land, which is to employ grant writers and bureaucrats, redistribute the wealth and most importantly, promote environmental and social justice. Not all new development in Detroit needs to be "urban, dense and livable" if it can serve a higher cause. (Message edited by Mikeg on June 20, 2006) | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1566 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.40 |
Erikd, Large scale comodity farming (which you are speaking of) is not a feasible way to farm anymore. The only people making money of of that form of farming are giant agribusiness and those farm families that own and farm several thousand acres. Furthermore what is being proposed here is not comodity farming. This is specialty/nitch farming which has a much higher rate of return for the farmer due to the lack of a middle man (no one has to process and transport the crop from North Dakota to Chicago) and being able to adapt and change to market forces quickly. Nearly all specialty farming today is done on a small scale. The empty lots in urban prarie land on the eastside are of a perfect size to do this sort of farming. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3468 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.35.36 |
Something more in line of my original question is somewhat answered by an email I received this week.
Computer problems have kept me away, until today. It was interesting to read some of the responses. Nainrouge, your project sounds very promising as a productive use of the land until other development is available. Bvos, thanks again for the links, the info they have sent me is very thought provoking. Erikd, I never envisioned large scale agriculture within the City. Nor did I see it as a permanent solution, although my open-ended question could be perceived as that. My thoughts were based on the usage of empty blocks or 1/2 blocks as they currently exist, not removing streets or freeways. In particular, I pass by a completely empty (except for weeds and trash) formerly residential block that has little possibility of any near-term development but is under consideration for something 5-10 years from now preventing anything from happening on that land until then. Converting that land to an agricultural usage temporarily just makes both environmental and economic sense to me. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4406 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
About 3 years ago, the Ford Motor Company did a lot a urban farming along Southfield FWY. and Hubbard Rd., Michigan Ave. between Mercury Rd. and Southfield FWY. The company were harvesting lots of sunflowers at the time. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 663 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
Jams, I was respoonding to the suggestions of bringing in combines for harvesting or farming to supply biofuel production. The amount of farmland needed to justify the purchase of a combine would cost a fortune to purchase and clear. The same goes for the amount of farmland needed to grow crops for biofuel production. I never dismissed the idea of urban farming on the small-scale basis that you are talking about. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 94 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
I wonder if any criminal activity might ruin an urban farming project. Whether it be simply tearing down crops, or burning them, or whatever, would Detroit gangs and such try and eliminate them? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3469 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.38.30.87 |
Or a building project, or a park... What will be lost? A few seeds that grow into mature plants. The PR might actually increase awareness of the efforts of the urban farming community by the media and strengthen it. Yes, crime is an issue in Detroit, but if everyone lives their life in fear because of it, than we have lost. Otherwise, we all head to the "safe" suburbs and surrender the City to the evildoers. Not an option I choose, if I lose a few raspberries or tomatoes to those with less moral character, so be it. I'll just plant again. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3924 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
How can criminal activity ruin the city more than it already has? And, how is an empty lot less apt to attract criminal activity? If anything, it's the complete opposite. Urban farming could perhaps give back communities control on vacant land more used by criminals than anything else. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1620 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.33 |
Urban farming has been proven to keep thugs away. The smell of manure is apparently very unatractive to them. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 95 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Whoa. I did not mean that I was fearful of criminal activity or thought that we should throw away ideas because of it. I just find it interesting how some Detroiters always find a way to destroy things and pondered if they would attempt it with the planting. | ||
Gianni Member Username: Gianni Post Number: 234 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 209.104.144.90 |
Beekeeping and making honey is a viable urban farming project that is happening now. I'd venture that those beehives are virtually immune to thievery, except for bears. And in all the talk of Detroit urban wildlife (coyotes, pheasant, deer, possum, rabbits, racoons, hawks . . .) a bear is one critter that I have yet to see or hear of. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 241 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.79.117.92 |
There some things we just don't do because they are undignified. We don't sell children, even though little white babies are worth a lot of money on the illegal market. We don't pimp out our sisters, even if they are (so to speak) underutilized resources. We don't panhandle, even if it teaches entrepreneurship and gives us something to do with ourselves. And I think we should eschew "urban farming" (what an oxymoron) for the same reason. Urban farming is a pretty extreme expression of defeat for what was once a cutting-edge, 20th century city. If this became a movement on a bigger scale, the national media would have even more of a field day than when the NYT profiled this practice in a couple parts of Detroit a few years ago. And there is something perverse about converting a city to a farm, converting houses and lawns and garages and parks into 40 acres and a mule, converting what was once an industrial mecca into an approximation of the Alabama-Mississippi-Georgia that most Detroiters' relatives tried to escape in the first place. Sure, someone is going to quote Talking Heads. Whatever. And I'm sorry - where are these fantasies about self-sufficiency and profitability coming from? Families sold their farms to agribusiness because the margins were low, subsidy or not, and they were too low given existing economies of scale. Farm equipment is expensive. Farm chemicals are expensive. And most people don't like the type of work. At the end of the day, we end up with something very close to subsistence farming - which brings no money into the city and develops no marketable skills in workers. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 97 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
So leaving empty trash-filled lots is not a pretty extreme expression of defeat? | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 665 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
I don't know what the criminals would do to the crops, but I would love to see some gang-bangers go cow tipping on an urban farm. That would be priceless... | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3473 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.38.4.255 |
Undignified? According to whom? I find a geat deal of dignity serving the produce that I have grown myself to others. I find it ridiculous that others take the idea to extremes of dividing the City into 40 acre plots and turning the City into an agrarian economy as a rebuttal to the concept of usage of non-productive plots of land temporarily. The benefits to the City may be small per lot economically, but what value is there to lots filled with weeds and trash that require resources to cut those weeds and pick up that trash?
Enjoy your corn flakes.......oh, wait..... it's undignified to produce the core product and isn't a marketable skill. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6070 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Huggy, You might never get it. Your false city pride will get in the way of fully engaging an idea that could make Detroit the only sustainable city in the world within a short period of time when oil and gasoline prices make the jump that some of us believe. Every other city has pushed their farmland further and further from the populace. We are the only ones that have created some from a series of historic occurences. There is NO shame in using this grassland as food production...a collection of small-scale less-than-peak-efficient but wholly-sustainable near-zero-input farms. We're talking about going back to a time when farming didn't need motorized vehicles...or fertilizers and pesticides made from petrol. Crop rotation, and all that good stuff. Using one of our most persistent and available resources...the beautiful earth that once made a few French farmers call the area Black Bottom...to benefit the citizens of Detroit. Creating many, many jobs. Turning a city that admittedly will NEVER again be a manufacturing capital into a bountiful destination. A place where you can eat food that is guaranteed organic and locally grown. Maybe in a restaurant with music and beer that is produced locally, too. Before going to see a movie that was shot here. We've GOT to stop thinking within our little boxes...only then can the City freely grow. | ||
Kimmiann Member Username: Kimmiann Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 155.139.40.51 |
Oh! Well said, Gannon! Certainly noone was thinking of reverting Detroit to rural farmland, but why waste the empty space? |
