  Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6140 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.213.167 |
An ordinance that would allow the City of Detroit to levy a $300 annual flat fee for garbage pick-up finally took a key first step forward today when the Detroit City Council -- after previously blocking it three times -- voted to introduce the measure. The council voted 5-4 to introduce the ordinance, which is needed as part of the 2006-07 budget that takes effect July 1. The council voted last month to approve the budget, which included the fee. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060616/NEW S99/60616016 | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1926 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.210.7 |
They actually haven't approved the measure yet. They've only approved the introduction of the measure. We now get public hearings and a vote afterwards. Can't wait to watch those hearings on the evening news. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4318 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.157 |
YAY!!! Now all Detroiters whether they are rich or poor will have to pay a $300 yearly fee so they can get their trash off their lawns. Well if the low-income Detroiters are DEAD BROKE looks like their trash will not be pick up. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6143 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.213.167 |
This will be horrible. People will refuse to pay the fee and end up putting their garbage... where ever. (Hopefully in front of the Manoogian Mansion.) Trash piles will appear all over the city and, with reduced bulk pickup, will become more and more of a problem. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3462 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.83.103 |
I'd have no problem with the fee if the City just wasn't sending everything to an incinerator and instituted a "Blue Box" system of recycling materials. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 93 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.195.233 |
I too would like curbside recycling in detroit. I'd be interested in seeing if what ann arbor has could be instituted in detroit. Recycling is not officially part of the city of A2, instead it is a non profit... from my understanding, here is how they pay for the service: -first, they have a store called the re-use center... like a big thrift store, but for large items, such as stereos, couches, bikes, work out equipment... no clothes... this turns a profit and puts some money towards recycling -second everything they take in is weighed. the city of ann arbor pays them SOME money towards the difference of what the weight is... for example, if a garbage truck can carrry 2 tons of trash, there is a certain area in which it can work before it wills up... In ann arbor, A2 pays the recycling group some money because the city trash service SAVES some money by the recycling system running. -third, ann arbor's automated system picks through everything with machines and then sells all or most of it... this seems to come close to paying, or pays for itself. swell. we need it. (although the second point might be moot in detroit, where the city already makes money off the trash in the incinerator's power generation...) | ||
7051 Member Username: 7051 Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 70.225.112.36 |
Trash from all residences will get picked up. The fee will appear on the property tax bill and become a lien if not paid. The fee gets paid with property tax ike a sidewalk or street assessment, etc. Its that simple. Cities everywhere collect fees on property tax bills. This isn't rocket science. | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 268 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.47.103.87 |
itsjeff...people have already been putting their garbage where ever for a long time now, even before bulk pick up was taken away. it's a problem that already exists but will get much worse now...as a matter of fact, just this morning i spent 3 hours with the sdev cleaning up some areas around romanowski park where dumping has become a big issue. we managed to fill 3 dumpsters. if the fee is tacked onto property taxes, and people have no choice but to pay it, but everyone gets their stuff picked up just the same, i still think dumping will be an issue. but at this point, doing almost anything i think will help in some way to not contribute to this ongoing problem. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2651 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.90 |
Wonderful, a $300 fee for A BASIC SERVICE (trash) ON TOP of a 67 mil property tax bill (the largest property tax rate around). | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 72 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
The city of Detroit should privatize DDOT. This will easily free up lots of money to attract new businesses and jobs and pay for trash pick-up without any fees. In addition, the city will get a real mass transit system that works and actually moves lots of people. It will be one that is safe and clean. Transit officials will actually work and answer their phones and mail. Detroit city council members will actually be awake at meetings instead of sleeping and ignoring almost everyone. A privatized bus system will work to ensure that people will actually go downtown and spend lots of money that can help your city. AND pay for your trash pick-up | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 740 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 75.9.252.89 |
I paid $45.00 a quarter for trash in Kalamazoo. You could pick from 2 companies (competition is a great thing) the city did recycling and bulk. Taxes are still far lower then here. Here's hoping for recievership to clear out the real bulk trash...city employees. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1588 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.50 |
Metrodetguy, The 67 mills will drop down to 64 mills with the change in garbage service since there is a 3 mill garbage tax that all property owners pay. However this works out to a higher garbage fee for all but the most expensive houses in the city (you'd have to get to the $250,000 mark for the $300 fee to be cheaper than the 3 mills). | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2653 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.1.237 |
I know Bvos, however, given that the median home value in Detroit is less than $65,000, and as you said about the $250k mark, the vast majority of Detroiters will (once again) pay more (for less). | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 18 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.42.78.175 |
It seems that the trash collection fee is not yet a reality.
Detroit delays its trash fee decision | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1970 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
As I posted earlier:
all they had approved was a procedural thing to start the discussion of the bill. | ||
Solarflare Member Username: Solarflare Post Number: 451 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 65.112.56.3 |
Good thing they already wrote it into the budget. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1983 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
I say screw the trash fee lay off a bunch of workers to balance the budget. Then tell everyone that gets laid off to thank the CC members that voted against the trash fee. | ||
Col_kat Member Username: Col_kat Post Number: 5 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 63.68.196.38 |
Does this $300 trash pick up include bulk pick up to? | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 683 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.61.194.237 |
http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/9446542/detail.html | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4467 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 198.111.165.50 |
HUMM!!! Pay the fee or let the city workers go free. Decisions, decisions. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 407 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 12.172.207.3 |
This all just doesn't make since to me. We are already paying for regular garbage pick up. We don't get any extras, just regular pick up. What pisses me off is that they want us to pay $25.00 a month for this. All the other cities get recycling and bulk with what they pay. I would not have a problem with this at all if an outside company was doing it and we received recycling and bulk. Other cities also do not pay $25.00. They pay less and get more services. This is just another way the city is gouging their residents. Then they say if they don't charge the fee they have to lay off firemen and policemen. I guess they expect us to say, "Okay then, we will pay". But I think everyone now is saying, screw that. They need to be laying off some of Big Boy's relatives, that would save the city alot of money! And since our population have gone down, get rid of two or three CC members. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1715 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.255.243.244 |
A good chunk of the "city workers" slated for layoff are police officers and fire fighters. It'll cost me an extra $156 per year - but it's worth it. | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1590 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.61.197.206 |
A couple clarifications: (1) The fee (per the original concept) is not added on top of the city tax. It actually reduces the millage. Whether this makes economic sense for each person individually depends on how much they pay in city real estate taxes. I think break even is around 190/200K in real sale value. (2) The city cannot recycle until its committment to the incinerator expires in... 2009, I believe. With the city already flowing in red ink, there's no possibility of anything else. Part of the excessive cost of trash in Detroit is due to the incinerator cost... but the cost would increase exponentially if the city does not honor its contract. I think one thing the city has not clearly stated is one of the motives for the change. With a large percentage of the people in the city paying little or nothing in property taxes, this means they get free trash collection that is being paid for by, well, probably by most of you. The fee is a way to rectify that. Now I'm not so heartless that I want more financial burdens placed on the poor... but they are getting a free ride here. Remember that next time the tax base shrinks further and it gets even harder to pay for city services. My problem is that I don't like any of the choices. I think we all realize that the city really does have issues with figuring out how to pay for things right now. As to whether the fee is a good approach or not is another thing. I'm a fence sitter right now. I will say that in my personal opinion a little healthy competition would probably help bring down rates. And if the city is forced to keep cutting jobs, it might actually save some. Monopolies just don't have the same incentive to cut costs and deliver service. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2678 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.155.192.54 |
"The fee is a way to rectify that." You're kidding, right Llyn? With the break even point at $225k or so and the savings point at $250k, the vast majority of city residents (that pay property taxes) will be paying MORE in order to give a break to a select FEW. (Remember, the median home value is around $65k.) Also, isn't the millage only going to be reduced in a few neighborhoods and not citywide? If that is the case, many would be paying $300 ON TOP of 67 mills (rather than 64). A further insult. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 408 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 12.172.207.3 |
I'm with you Metro. And I wouldn't mind paying more if I was getting better service. But here is my question: What if you are not a homeowner, but a renter. Who will get the bill for trash pick up. Will the landlords make the tenants pay this monthly bill now? I think they should have put this on some type of ballot or something. Let the people decide on how they want to pay for trash. Or better yet, let us hire our own company to do it. They said that if they didn't pass it, they would have to lay off around 400 police officers. Do we even have 400 officers left? | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 808 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
If the fee is passed the three mills will be reduced for the entire city. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 410 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 12.172.207.3 |
Yes and this goes into affect in 30 days. so let's see.....property taxes are due on August 15th, do you really think we will see these three mills taken off? NOT | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 956 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
LOL, really. Good point Bratt. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 412 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 12.172.207.3 |
Okay I read some more and they are going to take off the three mills on the property taxes, and add the $300 trash fee. Okay, help me, what the hell? All they had to do was just raise the taxes. Basically that's all they are doing anyway. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1786 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
This is the majority of the problem. We can do it cheap as we want (ie hiring a company), we are still obligated to pay off the incinerator in the next couple years. The whole system will change then. And I believe (I'm sure unless the proposal changed) the millage reduction is for all city property. There are separate proposals to give partial NEZ status to some neighborhoods. This is not related. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1716 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.255.243.244 |
Bratt, You're criticizing the City for not raising taxes? **Fnemecek looks out the window, expecting to see a flock of pigs go flying by.** Anyway, one of the reasons for a flat fee is that it costs exactly the same to pick up a Courville container in one neighborhood as it does in a more affluent neighborhood. Since the fee is relatively small (my net increase is $156 per year and I'll spend more than that at the bar) and they are including a provision to help low-income Detroiters, I feel this really is the best solution. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1973 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.227.12.109 |
Looks like we're going to be paying the $300. City council passed the measure. http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/9455784/detail.html | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10259 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
Yeah, won't be holding my breath for that 3 mill decrease. Probably be a lot like the city income tax roll back. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1719 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.220.232.214 |
Yeah, you're right, Supersport. It'll never happen. And you know whatelse will never happen? The Tigers in first place. Folks talk about it. It even shows up in the news media a few hundred times. But it'll never happen. Oh, there's this talk of building a public park in the middle of downtown - one with free concerts in the summer; ice skating in the winter. They talk about a large monument to commemorate a bunch of guys from Detroit who literally changed the fate of the nation at some fictional town in Pennsylvania called "Gettysburg". But that'll never happen either. Oh, and there's also these people talking about bringing the Super Bowl and/or MLB All-Star Game to Detroit, too. But that'll never happen, right? | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1593 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.61.197.206 |
Well, I'm pretty sure the Book Cadillac will never be restored. I think they went through all that financing just to pay their lawyers. Now that everything is in place they'll just walk away. I'll believe it if and when I see it. Maybe. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 21 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.42.78.175 |
I expect to see the Book Cadillac restored. I also expect to see it close again once Westin's management contract expires. There just aren't enough visitors to downtown Detroit to support all the new hotel rooms being built in the city. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3319 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.136.144.236 |
This is a back door tax increase and a selected tax cut. KK promised he would cut property taxes for yall rich folks in the city. But this way, the residents don't get a vote as they would if this was done as a tax increase. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 995 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
A really interesting animal downtown will be the condo owners' association for the BC. Will its funds for necessary repairs and upkeep be frittered away due to fraud and undercapitalization, and will the BC end up another Lee Plaza (with its copper intact, for now...)? Wherever in Detroit there's a money pot, there will be a lurking bear or three to raid it. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1212 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.252.124.43 |
I tend to agree with itsjeff... this seems like a simple shift from a progressive (property) tax to a regressive tax (flat fee), without any of the side benefits you sometimes get with some regressive taxes (such as sin taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, gas, etc). It overall seems more bad than good. I suppose one argument in favor might be that the tax structure in the city is a bit too progressive, and it needs to be flattened somewhat (for the city to simply survive), which this does a bit. | ||
Leoqueen Member Username: Leoqueen Post Number: 1370 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
...and I live in a mid-income co-op near Lafayette Park; our association fees pay for private trash/garbage pick-up. I am not sure how and why we should be assessed this $300, when our tax burden is so high. I am sick and tired of being stripped naked finanacially. And I am not in a good mood because I just finished watching the latest Harry Potter on cable. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 672 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
I think that charging user fees, in lieu of property taxes, is the best way to pay for services like trash colletion. IMO, this is a good idea for a number of reasons: A system based on user fees will result in a much more transparent and accountable government. For decades, Detroiters have been paying too much for city services like trash collection. Everybody knows that Detroiters pay too much in taxes for substandard services, but the complex system of tax collection and payment for said services makes it very difficult for Detroiters to come together and demand change. Under the current system, the cost trash collection is masked by high property taxes and a bloated city government. To determine if the city is providing trash collection at a competetive rate, Detroiters need to find out how many mils are collected for this service, factor this amount with their SEV, find out how much of the DPW budget is devoted to trash collection, find out how many households are getting this service, divide the total cost of the trash collection portion of the DPW budget by number of households getting trash pickup, and then compare these numbers to the fees charged by other local municipalities. Due to the complexity of the current system, it is very difficult for taxpayers to compare the real cost of trash collection in Detroit to the cost in other municipalities. The benefits of switching from trash collection paid for by user fees, instead of property taxes, have already started to show up... I have lived in the city of Detroit for a decade, and I have been posting on this forum for almost 5 years. Through the course of all these years, I keep hearing a common agreement that Detroiters pay way too much for services, but I rarely hear any real solutions. The standard responses are that the city needs to "cut taxes", or "provide better services", or "fix the schools", or "lower crime", or some other vague idea without any way to actually implement it. Outside the vague complaints of high taxes and poor services in Detroit, I have never heard anybody complain about the cost of trash collection in Detroit. I have heard people from the suburbs and other cities talk about how they get better services at a lower cost (in general), but I have never heard any numbers regarding trash collection... Until now. Everybody knew that Detroiters were getting overcharged for trash collection, but it was hard to come up with a solid number. When the city set the $300 fee, Detroit residents were finally able to quantify how badly we have been getting fucked over. After the city announced the $300 fee, this forum was filled with residents of other large cities, and local suburbanites, all posting about how much less they pay for trash pickup. The new trash collection fee is a blessing for Detroiters fighting for lower taxes and better city services. 10,000 people calling the mayor or city council with a broad request for "better services" or "lower taxes" won't get much of a response, but 10,000 people calling to demand a reduction in trash collection fees will... | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1215 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.252.124.43 |
Good points, Erikd. What is the going yearly rate for trash collection in other cities, anyway? I assume part of the reason for the high rate here is the bad deal with the incinerator. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2754 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.59.60 |
Does anyone know the details on how this fee will be collected? Will it be simply added to the tax bill - a tax bill purportedly to be reduced by three mills? Or will periodic invoices be sent out like water and sewage? If the latter, what happens if it is not paid? Does the garbage sit on curb to the disgust of the paying neighbors? Or do the paying slide it over on their lawn so it gets removed? My guess is that much of it will get deposited in the urban prairies, just as businesses that have to pay tipping fees do now. The bureaucracy and enforcement of this alone portends to consume a good chunk of the income. IMO, if they go into a pay for trash fee, a system for payment by volume of trash should be considered. I saw this in Germany. The result was most tightly folded and packed trash I ever saw. It was also common practice, when making purchases, to have the item removed from its shelf-hogging packaging so as not to have to pay for its disposal. This creates pressures for choking off the waste stream from where it arises, with the manufacturers and retailers. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 999 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Once or twice yearly on the property tax bill, I heard. Plus 50% abatement for elderly (65 or older earning less than $40K or so) and 100% abatement for some hardship cases. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 673 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
I have seen forumers from other cities and suburbs post similar trash collection fees. I'll start a new thread to gather some more comparisons... |
