  Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 778 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
While I certainly wouldn't expect the new Westin Book-Cadillac to completely replicate the as-built appearance of the hotel (French antiques, customized "Cadillac" door handles, etc.), I'm sure many Detroiters are expecting at least an attempt at a modern approximation. I've wondered how the developers will remake the Washington Boulevard entrance and Promenade, as well as the Michigan entrance with it's stairway. I wonder if there will be a "grand staircase" again, or escalators like after Sheraton took control. Does anyone know anything about how some of the public interiors will be recreated? Is there a website with renderings from an architectural or design firm that I have yet to come across? Do any of you have any opinions on what you'd like to see when the building reopens? I'm curious what we might expect to find upon entering Detroit's finest hotel. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 459 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.18.219 |
I'm trying not to think about those things too much until I actually see construction work happening, assuming that this closing process indeed wraps up this week. Having said that, I REALLY look forward to walking about the public floors of the reopened B-C with copies of those floor plans from the Arcadia book-- comparing what was there originally with what will now be there. Certain things like columns, elevators and windows won't change, so those will be orienting marks if part of a floor becomes totally different from anything before. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 16 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
I think it depends on the specifics of the laws regarding historical landmarks in your area, but I'd certainly expect a fairly good approximation of the original - particularly in the lobby proper, and in the ballrooms. Maybe even a restored Italian Garden. Don't expect a grand staircase though - they're not efficient in a modern hotel where people tend to haul their own bags. You don't want to tie up the elevators with people going between the arcade level and lobby level. It'll be an escalator. The guest room and condo floors will be totally reconfigured - taken down to the columns and rebuilt as new. They're way too small for today's traveler. As an example, The historic hotel I worked at in Seattle went from 900 or so rooms to 350 rooms (no condos) when it wsa renovated. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6154 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Lobby interior:  | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1701 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.34.252 |
Jeff: There are moments when I seriously want to smack you. And other times when I'm laughing too darn hard to do it. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6155 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
You take the good with the bad... | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1033 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
It will also be interesting to see how much they have to follow the American's With Disabilities Act when it comes to the rennovation. How many things will have to be slightly or majorly changed to meet ADA. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 405 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.234 |
The one area I would like to see put back is the Ballroom. Conrad Schmidt studios could make this happen, if given the budget http://www.conradschmitt.com/. The lobby areas were hopelessly re-muddled by the 70's--sparly white "popcorn" finish plaster with "glass babalonian hanging garden" light fixtures. Itsjeff--like those Barcelona chairs! | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 775 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
Actually, the interior will probably have more of a "classic" Detroit theme.  | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 103 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 141.209.33.164 |
Great Detroiter Tim "The Toolman" Taylor would love it, E_Hemingway, lol. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 83 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 72.229.136.103 |
What is the starting price for the condos?313 | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 216.93.121.82 |
Plans call for the remade property to feature 455 hotel rooms and 66 luxury condominiums on the upper floors selling in the low $300,000s. -freep | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 17 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.54.213.11 |
In a historic facility, such as B-C, all that is generally needed is a way that disabled people can get from point A to point B - it doesn't have to be the most direct route. For instance, the hotel I worked at (the Four Seasons Olympic in Seattle) had a staircase leading from the lobby to the ballroom foyer, and a three step entrance from the foyer to the ballroom. There was a similar arrangement for the dining room. Guests in wheelchairs were sent by elevator to the lobby mezzanine, where they could reach the all of these area via the kitchens. The BC - from the looks of the floorplans on forgottendetroit.com at least - doesn't seem to have that many obstructions - not nearly as many as the Olympic has. The only place I could see was the entrance to the English Grill room. Looks like there two or three steps there. As far as historical restoration, I am now involved with the restoration of the train station in Seattle. 90% of the original plasterwork was removed in the 60's as part of a modernization, but an English company is re-creating the plaster by working from some remnants and the original plans. Another company has recast the original light fixtures, working from photos. The results have been outstanding. And, from looking at forgottendetroit.com, it appears that the original lobby ceiing (or at least part of it) is still in place above the 60's modern work, so that's a hopeful sign as well. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2329 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.77 |
Great posts.... thanks for the info Dalangdon. When they restored Detroit's old 1922 Capitol Theatre to be the new Detroit Opera House, they replaced 90% of the plasterwork in the building (severe water damage). Recreating old ornate plasterwork has really become a new "lost craft" in recent years. No American movie palace was as badly decomposed and brought back to life as the Detroit Opera House. And other buildings have been following suit as of late. Now it appears that the Book-Cadillac will also receive some major plasterwork/metalwork restoration of the public spaces. It'll look awesome when it is done. Now if we could just get some folks to think about restoring Detroit's Spanish Gothic/Art Deco United Artists Theatre.... | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1039 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Didn't they rip out almost all of the BC plasterwork when they did the cleaning work in there a couple of years ago? | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 461 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.217.84.70 |
Somebody posted a pic of the Grand Ballroom on here that showed it completely barren after the cleanup: just steel and concrete structure. All remaining plaster remnants appeared to be gone. I don't know if that's the case with the other public areas. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 462 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.217.84.70 |
I should add that even the balcony railings were removed during the cleanup. I wonder if they're in storage, ready to be put back? Somehow I doubt it. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 86 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 12.45.2.184 |
That should make it easy for the restoration to begin. I CANT WAIT! I am all smiles. 313 | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 779 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.194.208 |
One would hope that if plaster restoration had at all been considered by the developer, any original remaining fragments would have been molded and photographed for later reproduction. This is what I'm interested in knowing, though; particularly ceilings in the public spaces. The original Book was so opulent that I can't imagine being able to replicate the work with a modern budget. While I'm thrilled by the mere fact it will reopen, I remain cautiously optimistic about the final interior treatments for the public space. I would be disappointed to see some attempt at "period rehab", like wide bands of molding rimming painted ceiling surfaces where three dimensional rosettes and gold leaf were once applied. I just want the place to be hands down the top hotel in Michigan. There should be no question that when you walk in the door of the Book-Cadillac you can expect the absolute best of everything. For many guests, its' architecture and decor design will be the first chance the hotel has to really demonstrate that attribute. | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 504 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
E_Hemingway - Is that a Yosemite Sam creation? | ||
7even Member Username: 7even Post Number: 35 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 198.109.26.18 |
It will probably look like this in a few years.  http://www.detroitblog.org/images/ballroom-after.jpg | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 780 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.194.208 |
No faith at all, huh, 7even? | ||
7even Member Username: 7even Post Number: 36 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 198.109.26.18 |
No, I have hope, I am just having fun. (Message edited by 7even on June 20, 2006) | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 776 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
No clue. Just found it on the net somewhere. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 18 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
I have faith in Starwood - they prize the Westin brand name and don't hand it out lightly. It ranks higher than Sheraton, and is equal with "W". With the operating agreement are responsibilities on the owner's part for the property's physical plant, and I expect there are requirements in the funding that specify a level of historical restoration. In other words, this won't be a Marriott or Day's inn. :-) | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 782 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.194.208 |
I'd like to see the Book-Cadillac capture the Townsend and Dearborn Hyatt business, where possible. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 768 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Dalangdon, the Ren Cen used to be a Westin. Look what happened there....... | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 407 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.234 |
Hey--be fair to the Westin folks--no one could make that John Portman joke work until GM poured TONS of money into the structure, taking out many of the "rat maze" features. I remember Red Skelton at the Fox, many years ago (he's been dead for at least 10 years) saying "I'm staying at the Westin hotel, the world's largest basement" well said by a man who stayed in palatial hotels like the BC in it's day, or the Palmer House in Chicago. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6163 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Westin's departure from Ren Cen had absolutely nothing to do with the building itself. In fact, they very badly wanted to remain there and are bitter about being unceremoniously booted out after spending significant sums preparing plans to update the facility. Bill Marriott sits on the Board of Directors of General Motors. Marriott is now the hotel in the Ren Cen. You do the math. Westin wants to sock it to Marriott and has been trying to get back into the Detroit CBD for quite some time. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 19 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.54.213.11 |
The "old" Westin (before the Starwood absorption, when it was still based out of Seattle) had a very different management philosophy - they wanted modern glam hotels (LA Bonaventure, Atlanta Westin, etc) They had a few old hotels, but those were mostly legacy properties - they prefered new, architecturally distinctive properties. The look of the Ren Center matched their aesthetic, but since they didn't own the building, there wasn't much they could to to make it better without the owners stepping up to the plate - and they didn't have much leverage as a smaller, albeit upscale, company. Now, as part of the Starwood collection, they are better able to influence owners (many of their hotels are owned by a division of Marriott, ironically enough) and they have have positioned the Westin Brand to be their upscale leisure/business brand. They have one brand above it (St. Regis) but those are rare and more at the level of Four Seasons or Ritz-Carleton. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1093 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.60.45.70 |
Here are some interior pix from WSU of the original Cadillac Hotel. Red Room  Interior  Dinning Room  Exterior  In the Book Cadillac here is the Crystal Ball Room  | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 784 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
Thanks! This thread needed some more pictures. I tried searching around for historic pictures of the Book, but I'm not techniaclly savvy enough to be able to post them. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.54.213.11 |
I believe that last picture is actually the Grand Ballroom. The Crystal Ballroom is a Junior Ballroom with a lower ceiling and no balcony. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1094 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.60.45.70 |
^^^That could very well be, I used the captions from the LOC, so they could be wrong. Sorry about the small size, my computer that runs Photoshop died, so I had to use a cheep M$ program to resize it. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 21 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.171.17.254 |
in case you haven't seen them, there are great historic photos of the B-C, along with a good history of the hotel at Forgottendetroit.com http://www.forgottendetroit.co m/caddy/ There's also floorplans and fairly recent interior photos | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 785 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
These are great photos, no doubt. Has anyone seen or does anyone have a list of the contractors involved? Perhaps one of them is exclusively an interior design or restoration firm. A name might help us find a website or PDF somewhere. Bueller? Bueller? |
