  Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1581 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.33 |
Here's a real hack-job story on the BC and Tiger Stadium as well as Detroit in general. They don't call it the Snews for nothing: http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060621/BIZ/6 06210392 | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 884 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/74653.html?1150891403 | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Okay, call me stupid, but how is this article a hack-job? I read it this morning and thought it was a pretty decent overview of the feelings surrounding the two projects. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 362 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
Headline: "Book-Cadillac, stadium deals bring hope Detroit areas could be turning a corner"" Why is this a hack journalism job, care to explain? Me thinks you're just being too sensitive. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3162 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.100.44 |
Did I miss something as well?? | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1926 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Some people aren't happy unless they are bitching about something. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1600 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Wasn't me... | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1582 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.33 |
The reason it's a hack journalism job is because it jumps between the two projects with little clarity when a jump is being made. Furthermore it has a lot of negativity mixed in with it, making it sound like Corktown is the hood and that Downtown is really dangerous. It's just a lot of the suburban stereotypes sprinkled through out the article. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1927 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Not this time. | ||
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_ Post Number: 119 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84 |
Bvos is maybe upset with the use of these words and phrases: (So I guess when fact is stated that's a "Hack-job"). sad and mean. scores of homeless gather near the abandoned institutions for free meals provided by churches. potholes. ,is dotted by empty storefronts. But after years of failure, blighted, No question there's a lot of room for improvement. "You basically watch your back," said Ralph Galik, 32, who walks by the Book-Cadillac on the days he takes a bus to work at the SBC building downtown. "It's more depressing really than dangerous," "You see people talking to themselves, guys drinking like at 8 a.m., and you see a lot of empty buildings. languish in decay. The street had a lot of hobos. I got in a few fistfights with drunks. And then things got even worse," When the stadium closed, many storefronts shut and went into disrepair. Before it closed, the glass-walled building was probably a drug den. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1929 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Most of that is true so where is the problem? | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 65 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Well, the fact is, the areas surrounding the Book Cadillac and Tiger Stadium look like hell, and while perhaps on their way back, certainly don't appear to be revitalized neighborhoods upon first glance. Need I mention again that when I brought my girlfriend's parents downtown, it was within a block of the Book Cadillac that we were harassed by two very agressive men, and the surroundings of that hotel are not exactly what I'd call a "nice" neighborhood. I have taken numerous people to Slows, and I jokingly refer to the surroundings as "blown out". The backdrop of the train station is both beautiful and depressing. The condition of Michigan Ave. nearby is hardly worthy of a third world country. Loving Detroit is a special kind of love, and sometimes we become blind to the reality that it's a city with a whole lot of rough edges. I think any article that points out the good needs to remain level-headed by reminding everyone that we still have a long ways to go, even if we're on the right track. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4352 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.223 |
I'll believe it when I see it. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1779 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 70.228.2.13 |
Bvos, it does start out pretty negative. What I notice is that most writers fail to notice a lot of positive progress, and when they do, they diminish it as each new piece of positive development news comes in. In the name of sensationalism, they hype each new development as the savior of downtown, forgetting all the other positive things that came before it. Yes, there is such thing as critical mass, and yes we'll definitly notice a lot of different, good things after the hotel renovations and Corktown redevelopment, but let's not pretend that downtown isn't lightyears ahead of where it was in the 1990s. We have a downtown where hundreds (thousands?) of people now live, it's quickly becoming a 24-hour downtown too, and it's safe, despite the presence of those terrible bums that the News story starts off with. Basically, my point is: the newspapers make a big deal out of developments, and then take them for granted or say "there's way more that needs to be done" afterwards, always reverting to a suburban viewpoint by pointing out "potholes, bums, and empty storefronts," along with new developments. Ya know, I saw a lot of empty storefronts, half-abandoned malls, and empty office parks last time I traveled Livonia, Redford, Warren, Southfield, and even Bloomfield. And the bums are riding transit (or their bikes) into inner-ring suburbs, oh my! Yet suburbanites want to believe that it's Detroit, and even downtown, that has a monopoly on the riff-raff. Unfortunately, the media keeps re-inforcing this, even whilst they report on good things. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 63.171.81.130 |
The article is stating facts, good and bad, so what’s the big deal? What if it was an article about the Book Cadillac and Tiger Stadium being demolished and nothing was planned to replace them? The point is progress is coming along slowly but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. If you want a sugarcoated article about Downtown and Corktown, I suggest you pay for an advertisement in the News. | ||
Hockey_player Member Username: Hockey_player Post Number: 206 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.148.213.218 |
Jesus Christ. The point of the article is the redevelopment of two abandoned properties. The story is this: two things were decaying, they are now being brought back to life in varying degrees. To establish that something is about to get better, you have to acknowledge that things were bad in the first place. The article starts out "negative" because having a giant skyscraper like the BC remain abandoned since the 80s is actually a rather negative thing, believe it or not. The article states that these once-negative things are becoming positives. It is an accurate description. The article is reporting conditions as they are right now, as it is supposed to do. I fail to see what is inaccurate about its portrayal of those areas. Should it gloss over negatives about the area? Should the reporter choose not to include his sources' anecdotes about their experiences in the area because it doesn't fit in with some tourism bureau worldview? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 905 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Even if the BC renovation restarts or rerestarts, would there be enough revenue generated and invested for inevitable, necessary repairs? Or, would a likely future scenario be another "Lee Plaza" w/ or w/o its copper? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1780 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 70.228.2.13 |
A newspaper story should tell us something we don't already know. Give me details, dammit, don't just give me your personal observations and regurgitate crap that people have said for years. And don't state the obvious: there are bums downtown, and some empty storefronts. It's like the writer is writing (at least at the beginning of the story) to reaffirm to non-Detroiters who never go downtown that downtown is still a piece of crap, and this is a pattern in our newspapers. If you read real newspapers like Crain's Detroit Business or the Wall Street Journal, they talk about facts, not feelings, when they cover economic development news. | ||
Hockey_player Member Username: Hockey_player Post Number: 207 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.148.213.218 |
So should articles on the War in Iraq not mention casualties, because it's stuff we already know? Should they gloss over the insurgency, because it would be stating the obvious? These things downtown are persistent issues. What is accomplished by ignoring them, censoring articles and glossing over reality? Would you accept those conditions when applied to Iraq, or the economy, or any other issue? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1271 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.216.1.4 |
Who wants to read just facts Mackinaw? That would be dry and boring, sometimes the feelings are the story. A truly great writer will be able to tie the two together in an appealing way. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1782 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 70.228.2.13 |
Spending several years on newspaper staffs, I know this Gumby. Usually, though, this sort of stuff belongs on the feature page, or the editorial section. Of course, talking to locals and attributing facts to people (i.e. people who live in Corktown) definitly deserves a spot in a good piece of reporting. Just try reading different newspapers sometimes...you'll feel like Detroit newspaper really cheat you out of information, because they fill space in already short stories with old news, opinions, and hearsay. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1272 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.216.1.4 |
I agree with you on that. I live up here in Flint and I would say that our little Flint Journal is much better at that than the papers in Detroit. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 580 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.47.159 |
Mackinaw, I really don't think downtown is fast becoming a 24 hour city. Downtown will have to have many many thousands more residential units constructed to achieve this. Across the country, cities with much smaller metro populations are constructing far more residential units downtown and they have yet to attain 24 hour city stature. Even with the Broderick, Book Cadillac, 1403 Woodward, 1001 Woodward, Vinton, Whitney, Lafayette, and Pick-Fort Shelby renovated and fully occupied, I don't believe downtown would be a 24 hour city, yet it would be much busier no doubt. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1783 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 70.228.2.13 |
Yep, even Flint has a better paper. Not everything is better, as I think that the Oakland and Macomb papers are really cut from the same cloth as the Detroit papers, but there are many big city papers that are just plain better. Basically I've extrapalated on Bvos's post to make this point again, and in my characterization of how the papers depict the city, I wasn't relying on this story at hand alone. This is true Mind_field...we could start by having downtown stores stay open a little later. Downtown has a decent amount of late nite restaurants and bars and events, but yeah more people living there and comfortably walking the streets late at night will make it a 24 hour city. (Message edited by mackinaw on June 21, 2006) | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 886 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
I support Mackinaw and facts in journalism. The worst news reports begin with anectdotes. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 466 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.21.67 |
The article was fairly well written. Nothing is helped by pretending the current problems don't exist. And they aren't kidding about the potholes in front of Tiger Stadium. I drove through there yesterday evening and it's impossible to drive anywhere near the speed limit through Michigan and Trumbull without risking suspension damage. "The worst news reports begin with anectdotes." Huh? Would an article about, say, a drought in Oklahoma be automatically terrible because it starts with a personal account from a farmer about how he's suffering, how it came to be, and his opinions on the situation? If a newspaper wants to even attempt being in touch with the community it serves (whether it's city or suburban), it can't simply give dry listings of statistics and facts. It needs to attempt getting "the pulse of the city." This means quoting opinions from people, and trying to infer the general state of mind of the community. If you don't like the results, start your own damned paper. | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 1043 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 4.229.57.240 |
"But it hasn't been all success. He owns another building, whose last incarnation was Maxi's[sp] Deli, across the street from Tiger Stadium, which has been vacant for three years. "This is a tough economy," Misfud said." Yeah, maybe try taking into account that he's been asking half a million dollars or more for freakin Maxie's Deli. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 888 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 65.54.154.25 |
Burnsie - Yes, an article starting with how a farmer is suffering would be a horrible article. News columns should begin by putting the situation in context. That's done best by starting with the general and working to the narrow. For example, an article about a farmer's troubles could begin, "A severe drought is affecting farms across the midwest." Later in the article they can show you how it affects one individual. The reason you dont do it the other way is two fold. One being context, the other being that anectdotes could be the anomoly. (Message edited by 1953 on June 21, 2006) | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 134 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 24.192.27.161 |
Yes yes yes. Everything is 24-hour flowers, rainbows and unicorns downtown, and shame on any journalist who has the reckless audacity to mention anything remotely negative like bums, derelict buildings or glacial redevelopment progress. Because as all us pro-Detroiters know, none of it is true anyway. And any reporter worth his salt knows these inconvenient details should be left on the cutting-room floor — especially when mentioned in direct quotes from a source — to fit in as much positive spin as possible. Just look at Fox News for an example: We are winning the war on terror, and Iraq is really showing terrific signs of progress — if you hold stock in KBR. I realize the media is f#%@ed up and imperfect, but some of you on this forum simply hate all media, period. | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 135 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 24.192.27.161 |
1953, we need to get you a job in journalism, tout de suite. "A severe drought is affecting farms across the midwest." Wow. What a lede. You had me at "affecting." | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 470 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.19.231 |
1953, I challenge you to tell me why the following first paragraphs of a hypothetical article I wrote are horrible: Drought shows no signs of letup GRAINFIELD, KS (June 22) By Bill Smith Centerville Times Metro Writer Tom Jackson glances up at the sun while taking a break from plowing the scorched corn on his 1500-acre farm. "This has been one of the worst summers in the 25-plus years I've been farming," he wearily notes as he takes a swig of water. Indeed, farmers throughout Kansas and the entire Midwest have been devastated by the drought which began in late April and threatens to wipe out much of the region's agriculture this year. Says National Weather Service forecaster Brenda Jones in Omaha: "Our forecast models don't show much of a letup from the lack of rain through at least the end of July. The high-pressure system has settled over us in a highly unusual, persistent way." | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 471 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.19.231 |
1953, what I just did was put the situation in context, like you said should be done. The farming citizens of Centerville want the news, if possible, to be put into the context of their daily lives. The newspaper responds to that desire by starting off with a tidbit about nearby Grainfield that grabs the readers' attention. Beginning the article with "A severe drought is affecting farms across the midwest" would be just plain boring and redundant. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1624 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.252 |
This sure was a hack piece of journalism...........if you are a paranoid schizophrenic........ |
