  Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 71 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Without going as far as to accuse our favorite paper of being a "hack job" this morning, I'd really like to take issue with the latest poll & articles regarding "Michigan's Mood". http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060627/P OLITICS01/606270376 The entire tone of this article is "we're all doomed" and "nothing, absolutely nothing could be worse than living in Michigan & Detroit" (sarcasm, not quotes from the article). Are we having a rough time economically in this state? Absolutely. But do we need to have daily articles pointing out every possible reason to pity ourselves? The fact that the entire poll, and a majority of the statements of fact in the article are based on opinions, makes it of little substance. That's not to say that these problems don't exist; I realize they do, but the entire article seems to be straining to make the picture look as bleak as possible. It's absolutely the last thing we need to be reading. From the article: "My great-nieces and nephews will not have the life I had," said Diana Lesser, 65, a retired teacher from Clawson. "There are no benefits anymore, no company loyalty." "I've seen so much pain and doubt in the community. People don't know what tomorrow's going to bring, where things are headed." "Michigan will never see the glory days it once did because of the people running GM and Ford." I just don't even know how to respond, other than I wouldn't disagree for a minute if Michigan ranked first in the world for sour attitude. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1349 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
You could have helped slow the pity party by NOT posting this article. | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 72 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Well, considering it's on the front of the paper, I doubt I'm really expanding its exposure. I guess I don't know why I posted it other than it frusterates the hell out of me, and I wish that we as a region could find reason to be optimistic despite bad news. I would imagine most successful people look at ways to rise and improve from their failures rather than dwell on them. | ||
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_ Post Number: 148 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84 |
Quote: You could have helped slow the pity party by NOT posting this article. You mean like the mainstream media does by not reporting good news from Iraq? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1045 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Everything is not ALL doom and gloom in our state economy. There are companies in our state not ties to the auto industry that are actually doing quite well. The office furniture industry based in Grand Rapids is doing quite well. There are a lot of bio-science companies doing quite well. Since the auto industry is so much a huge part of our state economy, it tends to overtake the news. And since the media are out there to get out attention to sell advertising and papers, bad news sells better than good news. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 902 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Sure feels like everything is doom and gloom in our state. I'm about to cry (but not give up on Michigan). | ||
Hockey_player Member Username: Hockey_player Post Number: 215 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.148.213.218 |
Gee, sorry that real people who don't know how they're going to buy food or keep their houses aren't keeping it real cheerful and positive. What assholes for expressing pessimism about their situation. They should just suck it up and rah rah everything, right? Must everyone always pretend everything is wonderful in Detroit and Michigan, even when their day-to-day lives say otherwise? I guess the fact that they don't know how they'll survive six months from now is irrelevant; the real issue is they should keep their mouths shut about it. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 947 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Good post Hockey_player.
Ain't this the truth? Start hiding money in the box springs kids... your pension won't be there in thirty years. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 546 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 71.213.228.30 |
Your benefit from your company is called a paycheck. Yes, sometimes business has to make harsh decisions and lay people off. It's the cradle-to-grave mentality referenced above that has helped the region get into the position it is in. And Ms. Lesser, your nieces & nephews will have it better than you, maybe not with a new iPod every other year, but their lives will certainly be better, they always are. I agree w/ Wazootyman, while times are tough for some, continually pounding the negativity does not do anyone any good. Within every setback is an opportunity. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1688 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
What I think the article emphasizes is the complete lack of understanding that people in this state have about how the world has changed in the last 30 years. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 948 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Yeah, and I'm sure the hundreds of folks waiting in line outside DDOT yesterday for 126 job openings as bus drivers making $10. an hour would agree with that statement. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1967 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Those jobs pay 11 to 16 an hour with benefits might not be great but you can live on that. Plus there are thousand of people in the city that wished that had that type of job. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 949 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Uhhh...Yeah, starting with the folks who waited in line who don't get the 126 open positions. You've neglected to think about what type of "opportunity" remains for the other hundreds who don't get a job at all. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1125 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
It's easy to keep saying this, but I don't hear any workable solutions coming from you - What would it take? What would it take to turn the schools around? What would it take to get a more educated workforce here? How can the state lower taxes and still meet citizens' needs? General putdowns and negative comments are easy but solutions aren't - that's why there's a generalized depression around here. (Message edited by lilpup on June 27, 2006) | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1968 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
"opportunity" there are a ton of opportunities out there the problem is not everyone is willing to due what it takes to grab one of those "opportunities". Currently, Michigan has a shortage of auditors and accountants. Also Michigan is short about 5,000 healthcare workers. In the next 10 to 25 years with the aging population there projects to be a shortage of anywhere 15,000 to 25,000 workers. These jobs pay well have very good benefits. Sometimes you have to make your own opportunity. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1126 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
Merchantgander - who's hiring the accountants? I've been doing small biz bookkeeping for almost 20 years. I have no problem going to school (again) to make the change - but will those jobs wait for me? I already got burned once with a lack of jobs upon graduation. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1969 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Look in the paper there are a lot of opportunities but there is a lot opportunity if you have an audit background. Ever since SOX was passed because of all the accounting scandals there has been a shortage of auditors to fill needed positions. In fact the big 4 has been dropping smaller clients because of it. Lilpup my advice for you would be to go to school get your accounting degree do a few years of audit work for a public firm you shouldn't have to worry about employment the rest of your life. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1689 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
You seriously want me to solve the problems of ignorance and entitlement in Michigan? Nothing I suggest is going to affect things one way or another. My solution is that when I finally can't deal with it anymore, I will move. (Message edited by dialh4hipster on June 27, 2006) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1127 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
Nice non-response Hipster - What are YOU doing to contribute to the betterment of the region? Or are you just here for yourself? | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1692 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
That was a full response, whether or not you want to hear it. I do plenty to contribute to the betterment of the region, including continuing to work on the relocation of my business to downtown Detroit despite the insanity of the retail market downtown (and when I could have been open a year ago for less money had I gone to Ferndale). I am the president of the board of directors of a non-profit arts group in downtown. I have begun to get involved with the Triangle Foundation to try to improve what I view as an abysmal atmosphere for gay & lesbian people in Michigan/Detroit. Not to mention I am a Detroit booster who has credibility with people in the suburbs, and I'm just a fun person to run into around town. What about you "Pup," what are YOU doing to contribute to the betterment of the region? (Message edited by dialh4hipster on June 28, 2006) | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6202 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
We seem to have a tradition on this forum of anytime someone asks condescendingly, "What are YOU doing for Detroit," the answer is "tons more than you." Like when someone asked Ndavies what HE was doing to restore an abandoned building, and it turns out he's one of the partners restoring the Vinton. Someone once asked JMY what HE was doing for Cass Park, and it turns out he spends his weekends picking up trash and planting flowers. Hipster does a lot of important work for the region, Pup, without compensation. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 837 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 136.1.1.33 |
Anybody with a background in Accounting has no room to complain right now. That field is on fire ever since Sox (as stated before)! | ||
Russell Member Username: Russell Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 207.238.177.246 |
This isn't just in Michigan but one big problem in general is that in 2005 CEOs on average made 262 times the average worker pay http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060626/BUSINES S07/606260334. That to me is just GREED GREED GREED. That's why companys are cutting health benefits, downsizing, etc to feed that type of greed. Then the company files bankrupcy. It makes me sick. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 89 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
Russell, In 2002 the ratio was only 143 and the reason the average ratio is now significantly higher has little to do with greed and everything to do with the "at-risk" nature of most of a CEOs pay. When a company fails to meet their performance targets, the CEOs bonuses and options always take a hit and the ratio numbers for the recession years of 2002-2003 support that fact. Few "average workers" are willing to accept a compensation package that varies year to year based on their company's success or failure. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 55 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 170.232.128.10 |
Michigan's health care industry is thriving. Our customers--the people of Michigan--have been good for business. Michiganders eat excessively and poorly, rarely exercise, smoke, breathe second hand smoke and breathe some of the worst air in the country. All this makes up for an ever expanding health care industry. The health care industry is the single largest sector employer in this state. It seems to be ever expanding with an ever increasing and sicker customer base. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1132 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
So Hipster does a lot of work for the region without compensation. A lot of us do volunteer work in the city (yes I do). But what good does that do to run around pissing on everybody telling them they have a shitty attitude? I understand where the malaise is coming from. The sources of the problems need to be addressed otherwise it's like telling a guy who gets hurt in a car accident that it's his fault for just getting in the car. | ||
Atl_runner Member Username: Atl_runner Post Number: 1927 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.151.12.10 |
When I was up there last weekend, it was hard to tell that the area is hurting so badly. I thought about it often though. Michigan can really be a great place, the problem is, that all people do is talk. There is little action. Cool cities, transit, etc. It's like people know what it will take, but lack the will to get it done. People and jobs are not going to flock to michigan as it is now.. we already know that. Instead of waiting for it to happen, the leaders need to actually do something about it. I find that part the most difficult to swallow. It appears as if nothing is being done. | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 74 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Maybe it's hard to tell because things aren't quite as bad as they're made out to be? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1133 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
got any funding? the city's strapped, the state's strapped, the feds don't give a shit | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1693 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
For the record Pup, I didn't tell anyone they had a shitty attitude. I said some of the quotes from the article emphasized to me that people here are not keeping up. And then you said that instead of commenting on what I got out of this article, which is what this thread is about, I should provide some workable solutions for a problem that, actually, I don't personally have. When I said the workable solution for me was that I'll stay here until I can't anymore, you said that was a non-response (the logic of which, again, completely escapes me -- it was totally a response). And then I needed to prove that I am actually doing something. And now that I have demonstrated that I do far, far more than you do (as evidenced in your weak parenthetical "I volunteer too" response), you decide you need to dismiss what I do, and again say I am not helping the state's attitude problem. Well listen up, sunshine. I lead by example. There is no real reason why I should stay here and work to make Detroit a better place except for the fact that I see the potential and I care. So when I see people complaining that the state is on the wrong track because they can't count on a job with the same company for their entire lives, I don't coddle them and pat them on the head and say "poor baby." I say "pull it together and look at the world around you, and figure out a way to adapt." Everyone in this state is waiting for someone else to solve their problems. Leadership is uninspired. When was the last time Michigan led the way on ANY positive change? Health care reform, civil rights, education reform, public health issues (ie: smoking), poverty issues ... any of these areas are ripe for creative approaches. But people of this state are not progressive thinkers, politically, and they do not support change from the old guard or the status quo. The majority of parents in this state don't even think a college education is important for their children! So instead they wait for a bailout and complain in the meantime? Nice. So getting back to my contribution, I am trying to be the kind of person this region needs. Entrepeneurial, philanthropic, creative, well-dressed and fun. I support the efforts of small businesspeople and developers in town, many of whom have become friends over time. And if my being here can help keep others like me from jumping ship, that's great. Maybe someday I will succumb to the siren's call of life in a "functional" city, as my friends around the country implore me to do, but for the time being I am passionate about doing something to make a difference in Detroit, I am capable of it, and I certainly don't need a little whippernsapper like you questioning my approach or my credibility on, of all places, an internet forum. Now why don't you talk a little about your real contributions, besides being contrary. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3932 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.11.154.56 |
Michigan is easily one of the most pessimistic states I've ever seen, and the media is to blame for a lot of that. Bad news sells stories, plain and simple, and we eat it up. In fact, I think it's the pessimism (some warranted, but most not) that is the single thing holding the state back. In a morbid kind of way, Michigan has come to not only accept, but embrace and wallow in it decline instead of looking forward and up. I know it pains and surprises Detroiter's (and other inner-city Michiganders) to hear it, but there are cities worse off than us in quite a few different categories. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1137 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
gee, sorry, I guess since I don't have any money or high profile influence to throw around my volunteerism doesn't count - but I doubt I'll ever run in to you while tutoring, picking up trash, working with groups like Habitat for Humanity, or anything else that benefits the non-hipsters in the area anyway. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1696 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Who said I had money? You're right about the rest of that, though. edit: PS - Lilpup, before you get bent out of shape - I am being an ass on purpose. That whole "what do you do???" accusatory bullshit is so ridiculous on here. As it turns out I spend 20 hours a week on volunteer work, so I enjoy using that as ammo when some fucktard gets all uppity on me. It's great that you have some involvement with those causes, whatever that may be. But I'm still not sure where you get off telling other people to come up with solutions when you yourself have presented nothing (nor have you presented an argument that people here DON'T have an attitude problem). And finally, while this screen name existed long before hipster came to mean what it does today (as an old email address), I find it offensive when people use their "regular guy" cred to put down hipsters, as if hipsters represent something bad. This city could stand a couple hundred more, frankly. They may dress funny, but they tend to be educated, creative, and committed to an urban lifestyle. (Message edited by dialh4hipster on June 28, 2006) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1138 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
You've repeatedly made your disdain for people who live here obvious. Doing so doesn't help anything at all unless you can suggest ways to improve the situation. I asked, you didn't offer any ideas. You lead by example? Then I hope you know to build upon the positive instead of constantly wailing about the negative. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1697 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Actually, if I am showing disdain it is pretty much limited to some of the idiocy I see on this website. In the real world, I have significantly fewer problems with the attitudes of people I encounter. |
