  Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1624 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.33 |
Here's an article from the Snews about the BC deal possibly being the tipping point for downtown. I think other projects, such as Merchants Row, the Kales Bldg. and others, were more pioneering projects but the BC is definately a watershed moment in downtown revitalization. http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060627/BIZ/6 06270377 P.S. Maybe Mr. Aguilar has been reading DetYes. This is the second good article after the "hack job". It's a balanced article and shows that there is a positive feeling downtown versus the pessimism of the "hack" article. (Message edited by BVos on June 27, 2006) | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 63.171.81.130 |
Agreed Bvos. I know Merchants Row, the Kales Bldg. and others really pushed the Broderick Tower development. Also, they resulted in the announcements from Illich holdings and their developments. Now we shall see if Illich holding follows through with it. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 35.8.144.6 |
The biggest change that I'm noticing is that we're seeing discussions that a few years back would have been "why would you ever..." that are now "why wouldn't you..." | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 793 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
The BC project shows that the city is really pulling out the stops to rebuild downtown. Restoring the BC to its former glory proves that anything is possible. It has the power to let the development flood gates open. The only other potential project that I can see having a similar impact is the building of Rock/Quicken HQ downtown. | ||
Pacypacy_ Member Username: Pacypacy_ Post Number: 153 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.84 |
Yeah, Downtown has reached the "tipping point". I get asked for tips from panhandlers, wino's are tipping bottles, and garbage cans are tipped over. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4433 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.84.90 |
Downtown Detroit has NOT been " tipped over in Development. So far a slow ecomony in Michigan leads to slow housing market in Detroit. And leads to slow developments in retail and residential houses in Downtown Detroit. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 584 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.74.7.89 |
I don't think there will EVER be one single event or renovation that can be attributed to "tipping" downtown. I always think it will be a gradual process, with some faster periods and some slower periods. After all, Compuware was supposed to unleash an "avalanche" of interest in Campus Martius and be the tipping point for that development, but it didn't happen. One thing that is critical for downtown to continue it's momentum is the decision by Quicken Loans to relocate downtown. This will be far more important than a renovated BC. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10232 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
I've reached the tipping point a few times while downtown. Luckily, a drinking buddy is always there to stand me back upright.  | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1970 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Bvos something tells me Mr. Aguilar doesn't give a shit about what this website thinks. There was nothing wrong with that article. Bvos why do you read the Detroit News all you do is bitch about how shitty it is? Either you like the abuse or you just like to bitch. Which one is it? If something sucks or is shitty most people tend to avoid it for some reason you are attracted to it. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 951 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
well, the website was even mentioned in the article, so... | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1613 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Merchantgander -- why do you read this website when all you do is bitch about how stupid everybody is? | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10236 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Hey Dabitch, You still go to Tiger games or what? | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1971 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
I don't think everybody is stupid. There are a few folks that qualify as somewhat intelligent. I am open for suggestion if you have a better way to kill time. Plus stupidity can be entertaining. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1614 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
JAL is that you?
As often as possible. No tix tonight, though. You going? | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1615 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Actually, just got a couple SRO's. The family and I will by there tonight. It will be game 6 for the 9 week old son... | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10237 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Sorry, recalled ItsJeff calling you that once, thought that is what you went by now. Yep, going tonight, be game #18 for me. I usually meet RSA at the Well for one prior to the game, weather permitting out on the porch. Your kids booze? | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 109 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 208.50.91.234 |
I would have to agree that there has been a point reached where there is a lot going on down there. I don't know if you can quantify it as a tipping point, but there is defeintely a whole lot going on. Just think back to about 5 years ago. There has been so much positive change that it is even hard to think of it all. I ask anyone who thinks that there is a not a critical mass of developemtn to walk down Woodward from the river to the ballpark. That strech is beginning to feel like a true urban environment. I know that there are still some holes, but five years ago it felt like a ghost town ANY time of the day. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1630 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.38 |
Some folks forgot to turn on the sarcasm detector today! I'm certainly not the only person to mention the state of the Snews. Their journalism standards have been on the decline for years, and I'm not even in the news business. Just talk to someone who's a journalist. They'll give you an earful about the Snews. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1584 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
A tipping point will be when projects can proceed without public financing! Seems like things are certainly improving for the better. The amount of public vs. private financing, and the number of funding sources required, for the BC project, though, are indicative that there is plenty of room for growth. Keep fighting the good fight! There won't be a single "project" or "catalyst" after which all the other dominoes will fall. That line of thinking has doomed many a city in the past (see: Cleveland). Rather, it tends to be a more gradual process, where you almost don't even notice the incremental changes, until you realize how drastically things have changed in 5 years. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10244 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Uh....you mean kind of what has happened here the past 5 years? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1585 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Yeah, but even more so. I didn't mean to imply that it's strictly a five year process. What I meant is that there's no "big bang", so to speak. It's so gradual, that you only notice after time passes. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 736 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.248.16.100 |
The answer is NO. later - naturalsister | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 232 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.136.10.153 |
Perhaps the pace of development will take a hockey stick shape of which we're still at the point where things are happening slowly and steadily for the past several years in a row. Once we surpass the 'elbow', there shouldn't be any question whether we've passed the tipping point. At least we're now at the point where only the most serious denyers and haters can say that progress hasn't and isn't being made. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 666 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
How could you say that? Compuware was the tipping point for a shitload of new development... Campus Martius, Au Bon Pain, Borders, Hard Rock, the new 1001 Woodward condos and garage, CVS, the new businesses in the Bates garage, Merchants Row, the new office building at Kennedy Square, the restoration of the National Theatre, and the new YMCA are just a few of the spin-off developments from Compuware. Without Compuware, most of these new developments would not have happened. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 667 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
Back on topic: "Has downtown reached the tipping point?" It's getting closer, but not yet. If everything works out, the next round of projects could finally push downtown over the tipping point. The addition of a renovated BC, Fort Shelby, Broderick, new Rock Financial HQ, and heavy development in Rivertown would probably make it happen. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 955 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Detroit apparently goes ecstatic over what would be trivial in Chicago... Skyscraper Projects Booming in Chicago Skyscraper projects booming - particularly in Chicago, where the term was born CHICAGO, Jun. 24, 2006 By DON BABWIN Associated Press Writer (AP) In this city where the skyscraper was born, it is thriving like never before. Luxury condominium towers and office buildings that climb 600 feet and more are sprouting up all over downtown. Along the Chicago River, the Trump International Hotel and Tower is inching its way up to a planned 92 stories. Plans are in the works for a nearby 124-story skyscraper, the Fordham Spire, that would knock the Sears Tower from its perch as the tallest building in the United States. Since 2000, no fewer than 40 buildings at least 50 stories high have been built, are under construction or are being planned. It's a surge in high-rise construction that hasn't been seen here since the 1960s and 1970s when the Sears Tower, John Hancock Center and other buildings helped give the city one of the most distinctive skylines in the world... [snipped] | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 586 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.74.7.89 |
ErikD, I really appreciate your Detroit boosterism and trust me, I would give anything to see a booming, vibrant Detroit that has conquered most of what holds it back. Some extremely positive developments that can be closely linked to Compuware are Campus Martius Park and the new retail in the building. Yet the spinoff development in the Campus Martius district specifically is disappointing. The Hudsons and Monroe block sit empty with no plans for anything. One Kennedy Square will bring a grand total of 100 suburban office workers downtown with the rest being sucked out of existing downtown office space. The National Theater is STILL vacant. And the YMCA being the direct result of Compuware is speculation at best. I would hardly call these things an "avalanche" of development in Campus Martius. Merchant's Row has been very successful, with 153 units occupied out of 157! It will be interesting to see how well the 1001 Woodward condos sell though, I wonder what the reason is for all the delays. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4443 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.84.90 |
As for the highest investment for business development for Downtown Detroit was permament MGM Grand CaSINo and hotel. It cost over $725 million dollars. But Detroit will not get over 90% of its revenue money. Most of it goes back to Vegas. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1617 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
That there's not a market for $300+ condos in an office building? | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1974 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Dabirch, I am tired of your negativity. Please go to the daily love thread and try to be positive for once in your life. Stop being a hater and try being more positive like I am. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1618 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
I am all sorts of positive on the Asian Parking Garage thread. I pick and choose my positivity. I tend to call it reality. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 170.232.128.10 |
The tipping point really comes from each individual's perspective. I have a co-worker living in A2 who goes to the Theodore Levin Federal Courthouse weekly for a Grand Jury investigation/trial. I try to point out interesting places to visit on his lunch hour such as Campus Martius and the Guardian. Every time we talk of his Detroit visits, his perspective and discourse is negative. I asked him how the Courthouse looked after its powerwashing and all he could talk about are the abandoned buildings nearby (Freep/Lafayette/BC etc.) This friend of mine will see little positive with the upcoming BC restoration. He only sees abandonment and lost grandeur. I see things differently. While the number of abandoned structures is still amazing, I believe the recent extensive development is far more exciting than the sadness of continued, but diminishing, abandonment. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 670 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
Mindfield, I don't understand your incredible disappointment regarding the Compuware/C-Mart developments. Complete development of the Campus Martius area was expected to take 10-15 years. Compuware and C-Mart Park were just the first step. 1KS, the 1001 Woodward condos and garage, and the ongoing work on the National Theatre are the second step. Development of the Hudson and Monroe blocks will be the final steps of this plan. There was never any expectation for all these projects to be completed by 2006, so I'm not sure where you got that idea. So far, the spin-off development from Compuware and the progress of the Campus Martius plan have met or exceeded expectations, so I don't understand why you are disappointed. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 801 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
Docmo: I have a friend just like that. Only he works in one of the Jefferson office buildings, so he spends a lot of time in the city. However, he never really goes beyond walking to his car in the Ford Auditorium garage or to lunch at a sandwich shop a block or two away. He's convinced nothing will ever get better. Detroit is just one big ghetto incapable of improving, in his opinion. At times it almost sounds like he's invested money in the city's downfall. And this is a highly educated young man. But for whatever reason, he just can't see beyond the stereotypes. These people are lost. Convincing them about the city's potential, or even downtown's, is about as easy as talking Dick Cheney into voting for Hillary Clinton. It just ain't gonna happen. The good news is most people aren't stubbornly pessimistic like this. For instance, my dad worked in the city for 30 plus years. He has seen the good and bad things over those years. He built a home way out in the exurbs partly because he didn't have faith in the city or the direction it was headed. But he sat in my apartment last night to watch the fireworks and raved about all of the recent redevelopment and how clean and alive everything seemed. He mused about whether downtown could be turning a corner with the Book Cadillac deal. He even said a good thing or two about Kwame, which he hasn't done in years. To me, hearing that from a skeptical but open mind that knows the city carries much more weight than whatever I hear from someone who is always trying to find something wrong. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1805 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 71.144.119.173 |
"He built a home way out in the exurbs partly because he didn't have faith in the city or the direction it was headed." I like how having qualms about the city requires building a new house in the hinterlands. What a world we live in, what a world... Having two luxury hotels built in historic downtown structures is a tipping point, no doubt. So would a Quicken HQ with its thousands of workers. In terms of changing the critical mass of attitudes in this region, it will take at least a generation to tip things the full 180 degrees. | ||
Mike Member Username: Mike Post Number: 628 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 66.227.165.194 |
The Detroit Tigers are the tipping point. With them playing so well, and actually bringing people into Downtown on a nightly basis, more and more suburbanites are seeing the revival, albeit from the comfort of their own car, but they are seeing it, with some acutally brave enough to visit a restaurant or bar afterwards. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1588 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Yes, bread and circuses--the cornerstone of any successful city. Seriously, the real tipping point is when someone is able to buy a surface parking lot and put a damn building on it. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 802 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
That's a very good point. This Tigers team is doing a helluva lot to bring more and more people downtown. I would argue that this team could have a bigger impact than a winning Wings team for two reasons. #1 More people fit into Comerica Park. #2 The weath is nicer so more people are likely to walk around and discover new things. As a side note: Cheli's picked the perfect time to open. The money must just be pouring in on him this summer. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 313 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
^^ No doubt. I was excited to see during one of the STL capacity crowds, people were watching from Cheli's roof, a la Wrigley. There's so much empty space in the outfield that we could someday have buildings out there with rooftop bars, etc. | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 234 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.136.10.153 |
E_hemingway, I also feel that some people are practically invested in keeping Detroit from coming back. There is much malice that it's not just skepticism. It'll take a generation for those to die out. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 803 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
Yeah, I've seen that anger. Mainly I see it in baby boomers who keep remincing about how great the city was when they grew up there, but how it went to crap after they left. As if they and their friends were the key to the city's success. One would think their train of thought was "I'll take every chance I get to bag on the city until those that still live there beg me to come back, lead the way and save it from them. Then I'll think about saying something nice." It works from the other side, too. I run into city dwellers who basically rip on everything suburban as if the suburbs were the Empire and L. Brooks was Darth Vader. They basically come across as "F_ck everyone who left. We don't need those bastards. We're better off without them." All of this reminds me of a scene from Resevoir Dogs when Mr. Pink, Steve Buscemi's character, is breaking up a fight between Mr. White and Mr. Blonde and says "F_ck sides. What we need here is a little unity." That's what Metro Detroit needs more than anything. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 587 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.74.7.89 |
I agree with Mike. A best in league Tigers team is doing a lot to pump energy and life into downtown. Attendance this year is up by at least 100k over last year and last Tuesday's game against Houston (of all teams) brought in almost 40,000. The tigers this year are helping downtown reach a tipping point. My sister, who could care less about sports, even wants to go see a game at Copa. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 743 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.8.10.203 |
Here, Here!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^E_hemingway!!!!! later - naturalsister (Message edited by naturalsister on June 29, 2006) |
