Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Frank Lloyd Wright (or Wrong) « Previous Next »
Top of pageBottom of page

Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1204
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.252.124.43
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saw a blurb in the free press a week ago about the Frank Lloyd Wright house on 7 Mile being sold, now this story...

http://metrotimes.com/editoria l/story.asp?id=9372

Excerpts:

quote:

Wright or wrong?

Detroit’s Turkel house drips with history

by Michael Jackman
6/28/2006

Detroit's Palmer Park area is a stately neighborhood of architectural showoffs. The area is the pride of the city's leading citizens, with English and colonial revival residences and bright green carpets of manicured lawn that command attention. But those who drive slowly down West Seven Mile Road, easing to a crawl on the busy thoroughfare, are treated to one of Detroit's architectural curiosities. Up a narrow driveway, screened off by foliage, is the Frank Lloyd Wright-designed Dorothy Turkel house. Where Palmer Woods' homes stand drawn up in all their finery, this house turns its face away from the street like a wallflower at a debutante's ball.

Unseen by oblivious motorists whizzing by, it's a world unto its own. The building will be 50 years old next year, and, due to neglect, it looks its age. The fine lines of the textile-block building show wear, with a light coating of moss in places on top. A plywood patch covers one of the small rectangular windows. The yard is a patch of tough city turf.

...

But things are looking up for the beleaguered property. A plate glass door that was cracked a few weeks ago has now been replaced. The house has been for sale since last fall with an asking price of $420,000, but this month it was bought by Norman Silk and Dale Morgan, co-owners of Blossoms flower boutique in Birmingham, who are reportedly optimistic about restoring the property to its original condition.

...

In a way, it's fitting that the only Wright home within city limits would also be among the most threatened. Not just because of the disinvestments that have hit the city so hard, but because the city was in many ways inimical to Wright's most ecstatic visions for the future. In The Owner-Built Home, architect and writer Ken Kern tells how Wright was contracted by the city to produce a plan that would make Detroit more livable. After due consideration, Wright made a typically dramatic presentation at a meeting of the City Council. He said, "I suggest, you tear it all down and start over."

Like his contemporary Henry Ford, Wright wanted to empty out American cities. He was captivated by the mobility of the automobile, and among his most ambitious plans he included a sprawling paradise of homes on large parcels, a design he called Broadacre City, which would give each American family an acre of land so they could build Wright-designed communities. These quixotic plans would be embodied in the mushrooming suburbs of the postwar era, the explosion that ended up draining Detroit of people with means.

...


Top of pageBottom of page

Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 539
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.242.221.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see a lot of activity these days @ the Turkel house. It seems as though no one stays there longer than a year or so.. the for sale sign keeps popping up. Most FLW houses are not house homes per se' they are live in museums and you can't raise a family in those houses... well not most of them. They are delicate and have a lot of custom fit and finishings that are irreplacible.

I am sure those homes are hard to keep heated and cooled and live comfortably in. If you have ever been in an FLW house, he made them the way he thought they should be made, the Wright way.. smalls narrow halls... super high ceilings.. no windows in some places... etc...

It's a nice house.. anyone have any current pics of the interior?
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 39
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like it may have been interesting in its day.....BUT, lots of work needed on it. Looks to me more like a modern (for the 50s) office building. With that glass door to the hallway and the outside pics......makes it look daunting. Maybe it's just a personal thing, I much prefer the architecture of the Classic Detroit Look and old farmhouses. Tons of storage space in the Wright home though, from the pics. Would love to do a walkthrough, would prove to be interesting.
Top of pageBottom of page

Billpdx
Member
Username: Billpdx

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 198.107.48.11
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are a ton of photos.

http://www.peterbeers.net/inte rests/flw_rt/Michigan/Turkel_H ouse/2006-03-19_Turkel/index.h tm

I'm moving back to Michigan soon, and I was thinking seriously of buying this home...actually, saying I was obsessed with the idea wouldn't be too far off. But the timing isn't quite right, and now it's gone.

It appears from the article that there may be more work involved in fixing it up than most people (including myself) have the budget for.

Congratulations and good luck to the new owners. It's a beautiful and fascinating house.
Top of pageBottom of page

Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6209
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.136.149.133
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sure hope they can preserve the architectural grandeur of this room:
hellaugly
Top of pageBottom of page

Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1266
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.202
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That room needs my yellow vinyl, plexiglas, Star Trek chair (currently undergoing restoration).

Top of pageBottom of page

Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 540
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.242.221.8
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never seen so many shots of that house.. Usually I just see a few.
Top of pageBottom of page

Billpdx
Member
Username: Billpdx

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 198.107.48.11
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

itsjeff, you are killing me with that blue carpet post.

nice work.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livedog2
Member
Username: Livedog2

Post Number: 557
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 24.223.133.177
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tear that schitt down and build a REAL house!

whitney

Livedog2
Top of pageBottom of page

Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2587
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wright was contracted by the city to produce a plan that would make Detroit more livable. After due consideration, Wright made a typically dramatic presentation at a meeting of the City Council. He said, "I suggest, you tear it all down and start over.


Yay Detroit!
Top of pageBottom of page

Mccarch
Member
Username: Mccarch

Post Number: 77
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 68.255.167.208
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was FLW actually "contracted" by the City of Detroit to produce a plan, or is that just urban legend?
Top of pageBottom of page

220hendrie1910
Member
Username: 220hendrie1910

Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.217.124.27
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it just me, or was Frank Lloyd Wright bitten by a curved line when he was young?

Bored with rectilinearity in Ottawa.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livedog2
Member
Username: Livedog2

Post Number: 558
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 24.223.133.177
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wright was a megalomaniac! And, the people that gave him a commission obviously never read “The Emperor’s New Clothes” and needed to be abused. They could have accomplished the same thing with a dominatrix but cheaper!!

dominatrix

Livedog2
Top of pageBottom of page

Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1698
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.250.205.35
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I read this blurb in the News. Very cool news for a number of reasons.

First off, cool that very successful business owners from Birmingham bought a house in Palmer Park. Would be lovely if this was an indicator of a bigger trend in general, although I am pretty sure it's the house that was the draw.

Secondly, great news for Detroit's architectural heritage, particularly in such a nice area of the city. Judging from the new owners' business, they have the right kind of creative vision to restore a house like this appropriately.

The Palmer House in Ann Arbor is a Wright design and the owners have always been very gracious about showing it off. You can't just walk up and get a tour, but they've been great private stewards of the home, entertaining often and maintaining the original design meticulously. The husband passed away several years back but the wife still lives there, although I wouldn't be surprised to see that home come on the market soon as she is getting quite elderly.

Hopefully the new owners will be the same kinds of stewards. Living in a FLW home is not for everyone, but it can be amazing for the right people. I would expect to see many photo shoots of this home in shelter magazines in about 2 years.

Oh, and Viziondetroit, considering who bought the home, I don't think raising a family is an issue, although the original owner raised four children.

Here's a link to a (bad) photo and a little more info:

http://vh10624.moc.gbahn.net/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2006 0617/LIFESTYLE01/606170410/103 8
Top of pageBottom of page

Sumotect
Member
Username: Sumotect

Post Number: 197
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.243.32.9
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't say that Turkel is one of the Old Man's better work. Concrete block is not a very good material for a good building.

You wan't to see a house? Check out the Affleck House. (Gregor not Ben)

Now you're talkin HOUSE!!!!
Top of pageBottom of page

Neilr
Member
Username: Neilr

Post Number: 287
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 68.60.139.212
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe that the new owners of the Turkel House on 7 Mile, Norm Silk and Dale Morgan, who own Blossoms in Birmingham, have lived in Palmer Woods for years. I have attended fund-raisers held in their current home which is desgned in a very different fashion than the FLW House on 7 Mile. If they expend only a fraction of the talent, creativity and money on the FLW House that they spent on their current home, it will surely become another Detroit jewel.
Top of pageBottom of page

Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 951
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.90
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If any Wright fans find themselves in or around Lakeland check out the campus at Florida Southern.

http://www.flsouthern.edu/fllw ctr/index.htm
Top of pageBottom of page

Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 541
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.42.23.2
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

D4H... I don't doubt that you could raise a family in the house back in the day.. it just doesn't look child friendly. I would be scared to wire and drill through walls like I would be ruining art.
Top of pageBottom of page

Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6220
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I say drill away.

ugly
Top of pageBottom of page

Sknutson
Member
Username: Sknutson

Post Number: 610
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 67.114.23.202
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe that Neilr is correct, and that this is the house that the new owners of the Turkel are selling:

http://www.gerrybanister.com/c ontent/listdetail.html/4089813 7?proppos=2&ag_id=1811926&star tpos=1&endpos=10&ids=39048440, 40898137,40924648,41226279,412 26278&propertyCount=5
Top of pageBottom of page

Bvos
Member
Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1634
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 134.215.223.211
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sumotect,

The Turkel house was built in a style Wright called Unisonian Automatic. All those homes were built with concrete block (CMU). CMU was a very common building material for Wright, especially in his later years. It's pretty amazing what he did with CMU. If only folks today could come up with the designs he did with CMU the material would have a lot more respect.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1700
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.250.205.35
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Itsjeff, remove that carpet and you have a very different room, and you know it. Now behave.
Top of pageBottom of page

Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6222
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hrumph.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thnk2mch
Member
Username: Thnk2mch

Post Number: 182
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 71.65.11.152
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With a lot of hard work it could look like this !


red
Top of pageBottom of page

Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6223
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was... interesting. Thank you.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1206
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.1.1.154
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed Dialh, great news for Detroit's architectural history... sounds like the new owners should be able to bring the house back to its former glory.

Ok itsjeff, is that actually a room from this house? (Or another FLW house?) I can't really rule it out, what with the straight lines, solid-looking wood walls and built-in storage space. The blue carpet is awful, though.
Top of pageBottom of page

Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6224
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it's a room in that house. From Billpdx' photolink above.

I really wish I hadn't been so critical now. Especially just after my week-long rant about preserving Ford Auditorium.
Top of pageBottom of page

Sumotect
Member
Username: Sumotect

Post Number: 198
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.243.32.9
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That bedroom looks way too small for anything but a midget.

The book matched paneling is quite nice. The two horizontal wood strips are picture rails, which I think is how they planned to add any wall art.

Nice ceiling.

I would bet may last dollar that that floor covering is not original. It is not a FLW color for sure. I bet the original flooring was a colored concrete.

Most if not all of Wright's concrete block houses wind up with serious problems, Even in warmer climates like LA. CMU is like a sponge when it comes to water, some of the photographs show that.

(Message edited by sumotect on June 29, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Rrl
Member
Username: Rrl

Post Number: 549
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 71.213.228.30
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, that house the new owners are selling in Palmer Woods is quite nice. They'll have a big project on their hands with the Turkel house. Be interesting to see before & after shots in about two years.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2367
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.197
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting fact about Wright's Usonian Automatic houses is that the Turkel House was the only 2 story example of that style.

That house certainly has a lot of shelf space for knick-knacks!

It was not one of Wright's best designs, and doesn't exude a lot of warmth (especially in its' current state.

My favorite Michigan Wright home design was the Meyer May House (1908) in Grand Rapids.

I'm sure that Silk & Morgan will give this house some lacking TLC. And no Wallside windows for this project! :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Sumotect
Member
Username: Sumotect

Post Number: 199
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.243.32.9
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Silk & Morgan, I remember the place they started from, a little storefront next to the Willis bar, on Third. Looks like they moved up in the world. Very Cool.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4021
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.171.136.201
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With his Usonian Automatic system, Wright called for the owners to make their own brick, on-site.
Wright was hoping that post-war commissions by modest folks would demonstrate that new buyers of the American dream could make their own facades.
He was 50 yrs. ahead of Habitat for Humanity.

It turned out to be anything but "automatic" for most of those who tried it. Wright thought he could teach concrete block making and eliminate the need for costly contractors.

Examples of Wright homes of the Usonian Automatic period are in Kalamazoo and Okemos, Michigan.
The Turkel house at 2760 W. Seven Mile Road, Detroit, is much larger than these others, however.

The pierced concrete blocks admit plenty of light into the house, absent any really large windows.
With the prominent decorated cornice and the flat roof, Wright achieves his horizonal concept of a home on the midwestern prairie which blends into the natural landscape. It can be argued that the siting of the house on this Detroit lot is way off the mark. In jjaba's vernacular, it is cockeyed as hell. But none-the-less, Detroit can boast it's own Frank Lloyd Wright design.

A very similar house of this period by FL Wright is the Kalil house of 1956, Manchester, New Hampshire, but in a one-storey plan.

jjaba, some research notes on the Westside.
Top of pageBottom of page

Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 317
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 24.192.25.47
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That house reminds me of the DC Metro...but I'd live there.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4022
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.171.136.201
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Focusonthed is right as hell. Those METRO interiors look just like Wright's Usonian Automatic exteriors. Good point.

jjaba on the Westside.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4023
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.171.136.201
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Freeman and the Ennis houses of 1923 in Los Angeles and the Arizona Biltmore Hotel of 1927 in Phoenix are references of earlier work by FL Wright using his patterned brickwork.

jjaba, architectural references.
Top of pageBottom of page

Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1627
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.74
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is there an architect that elicits as much debate as FLW?
Btw a friend of mine considered buying the Turkel house circa 1984 or so for about 50grand.......bought instead on Artesian and now lives in Dexter.
Here is a link to a pretty interesting site and a take on FLW.Btw one of these guys is from Detroit and gives a compliment to the Detroit ruins site


http://www.2blowhards.com/arch ives/000993.html
Top of pageBottom of page

Sumotect
Member
Username: Sumotect

Post Number: 202
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.243.32.9
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In renovating this house, I don’t think I would be so reverential to Wright. I think I would try to work with what is there but bring this pile of blocks into this century. I would take the problems of comfort and utility and maintenance very seriously. It could be very interesting to see how new electronics might help this building. A new rubber roof might be right for Wright.

And what about adding on if needed? Expanding the cramped living spaces.

The LA versions of this house style have been used in many movies. In Blade runner Harrison Ford lived in a Wright house with similar concrete block. The exterior of the House on Haunted Hill with Vincent Price was a FLW, the Ennis - Brown house, I think.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4025
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.171.136.201
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 1:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sumotect, exactly. jjaba hired two Chinese workers to fix up his FL Wright masterpeice.

jjaba left for a vacation and when he got back the Chinese had installed Pagodas on the roof.
Oy veyesmere, jjaba fired them on the spot and said,

"GOES TO SHOW YA, TWO WONGS CAN'T MAKE A WRIGHT."

jjaba, LOL.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.