Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Draw Bridges in Southwest Detroit.... « Previous Next »
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 20
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's an interesting topic!

Anyone been across those draw bridges on Fort St. and Jefferson and on Dix. Anyone know when those were built? and maybe what was there before? I'm referring to the draw bridges that go across the Rouge River.

I remember when the Fort St. and Jefferson Bridges were closed to be rebuilt, in the mid 1980's First the Jefferson, then the Fort Street Bridge. I dunno if the dix bridge was ever rebuilt at all..

Photo? Memories? History?

-Chuck
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 255
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 68.164.106.52
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those three road Drawbridges, Dix, Fort and Jefferson, were all built during the 1920s as the Government and Ford Motor teamed up to straighten, widen and dredge the river to allow Ford's ore boats to access the Rouge Plant. At the same time, three new train bridges were added as well: Bridge (NS), Conrail Bridge, and the Shortcut Bridge. The three road bridges are all similar (but not exactly the same), and are technically dual leaf bascule lift bridges, while the train bridges are all single leaf drawbridges. In order, starting from the Rouge Plant towards the Detroit River: Dix Ave, Fort Street, NS Bridge, I-75 overpass (built in 1966-1967), Conrail Bridge, Jefferson Ave, and the Shortcut Bridge.

During the "upgrades" to Jefferson and Fort St in the 80s, much of the original terra cotta railings were removed and replaced with standard cement barriers along the sidewalks. Some of the terra cotta pieces from the Jefferson St. Bridge were just pushed over the side into the water, and you can see them near the unused bridge tower on the Jefferson Bridge. All three road bridges are staffed 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, with an operator at each. Both the Dix Ave. and Jefferson Ave. bridges have a second currently unused tower on the other side of the bridge from the operational tower - Fort Street's second tower was demolished, perhaps when the 1980s upgrades were done. The operational tower for the road bridges are all located in the Northeast quadrant of the bridges. The steel arches which stretch over each end of the Fort St. bridge are left over from the DSR streetcar days to suspend streetcar wires; two similar spans were actually on the bridge leaves and have since been removed, though the two on the bridge piers remain. Jefferson still has the streetcar arch posts in place with streetlights, but the arches no longer cross over the roadway. The road spans of both bridges have been updated, I don't know about Dix Ave.

Each railroad bridge has it's own bridgetender tower, and in all three cases, the tender has more responsibility than simply raising or lowering the bridge. All three towers are also interlocking towers, controlling nearby switches and signals in addition to those associated with the bridge itself. All three are pretty much inaccessable to the public, but are easily seen from the Rouge River. NS Bridge has a two story cement block tower, CR Bridge has a cool looking 2 story brick tower, and Shortcut Bridge is a Ford inspired light tan brick with red tile roof tower - left over from when Ford controlled the Detroit Toledo and Ironton, the railroad which operated over the bridge until the 1980s. NS and CR Bridges are both painted black and are doubletrack, while the Shortcut bridge is single track and painted light green. All three train towers monitor Shipping channel 12, so in general, ships do not need to blow their horns to get them to lift the bridge. The road bridges, however, do not always monitor the shipping frequency, so ships will often need to blow the horn (1 long, 1 short) to signal to open the bridge - unless the bridge tender sees them coming.

Each drawbridge bridge has a character all to itself, as I'm sure you can see. The Jefferson St. bridge features two "schoolbell" mechanical bells which go off when the gates go up and down and when the bridge is being raised or lowered. The Fort and Dix bridges also have mechanical bells, but theirs go "ding ding ding ding" slowly. All three road bridges have a classic pair of Leslie air horns, which they sometimes use to signal to a ship captain that they will now raise the bridge. The bridge tenders at Fort Street tend to use this horn the most often of any of the three bridges. This is the same horn used on Electro-Motive F-7 train locomotives. NS Bridge has a high pitched whistle, and sounds sort of like Thomas the Tank Engine.

It's really interesting to follow a boat through the Rouge, especailly one of the Interlake Steamship boats which have ore for Rouge Steel, and must go through all the bridges. The Rouge River has a number of docks, which receive ore, cement, coal, stone, salt, and fuel/oil. Sometimes, three or more boats can be in the river at any one time! The steamer Arthur M. Anderson was unloading coal at the Marblehead Stone dock today, with their bow almost on top of the Jefferson Ave. drawbridge.

Diamond Jack's River Tours is currently keeping their boats in the Rouge, and they make the daily trip through all of the bridges except Dix Ave to reach the Detroit River and their docks at Hart Plaza or Bishop Park. It's a fun trip each way, but it takes a while. Interlake Boats going to Rouge/Severstal steel take between an hour and a half and 2 hours to get from the Rouge Entry/Chortcut until they are secure at the steel mill. Our boats only take about a half hour, assuming we don't get stuck by any of the bridges, which does in fact happen.

Oh yes, the Rouge "Shortcut" was dug in the 1920s, to eliminate the twistys old riverbed, and making Zug Island an actual Island. Previously, the area which is now the shortcut was simply a low marsh, and the river made a huge oxbow a half mile below the Jefferson Bridge, curving north back to Jefferson, and then around the east side of Zug Island. Two bridges exist on this route also today, the Swing Bridge (out of service), and the 141 Bridge (a drawbridge). Both are used only by US Steel trains and cars, and inaccessable to the public. The Shortcut Bridge was added when then Shortcut canal was dug in the 20s. Today, the Shortcut Bridge is used by US Steel and Delray Connecting trains bringing coke cars onto or off the island, and the slag trains using "bottle" cars. CN and Conrail trains also occassionally use this route, so I've been told.

OK, so that's probably WAYYYYY more than you wanted to know, and I'm sure there is more that I've forgotten. Like Pictures! I've got some that I need to scan and shrink. I'll try to add them soon. Great topic, I hope this helps! You may also find the below links useful:

Jefferson Bridge:
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0 ,1607,7-151-9620_11154_11188-2 9408--,00.html

Fort St. Bridge:
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0 ,1607,7-151-9620_11154_11188-2 9393--,00.html

All road bridges have placards placed with information about when they were built.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 671
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fantastic writeup on the topic, Buster! Great read. Thanks a bundle!
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 30
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Fantastic writeup on the topic, Buster! Great read. Thanks a bundle!




Agreed. Just wish there were more pictures...

:-)
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1638
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Posted From: 75.10.21.159
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget that these bridges were the site of the Rouge Plant sit down strike. Henry had his goon squad come out and bust some chops with blackjacks, but the workers didn't budge. They stood their ground and formed the UAW. The rest is history.
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Livedog2
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Username: Livedog2

Post Number: 577
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 71.10.61.35
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great job, Busterwmu about a topic I have never heard about before! I'm going to check them out more closely the next time I see them.

Livedog2
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Pdtpuck
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Username: Pdtpuck

Post Number: 87
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 208.251.168.194
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 5:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dix Bascule Bridge Pics
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 34
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm...

Pdtpuck,

I tried looking for info and pics on the Fort Street Bridge... No dice... Interesting the way the original bridge looked like on Dix... wow.. It don't look like that no more! :-) I'll be search myself...

-Chuck
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 6104
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These bridges are some of my earliest childhood memories...we called them the 'singing bridges' due to the tone generated when tired rolled over the metal grid roadway.

That tone changed slightly with the advent of radial tires...pitch raised quite a bit. Could be the speed I take 'em at versus how my mum did, too.


Cheers!
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 35
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Fort Street's second tower was demolished, perhaps when the 1980s upgrades were done.




Buster,

Not to correct you or anything, But that second tower wasn't there when they were doing the repairs on the Fort Street Bridge in the 1980's. I know, we used to cross that bridge...ALOT, when I was a kid. Although, I lived in Southwest Detroit, We used to shop out in the 'Burbs for Food, Clothes, ect... So, every Friday, we'd cross that bridge. like clockwork... and I only remember the one tower on Fort Street. They must have removed it back in the 1960's when they did the first upgrade on the bridges.

Here's some stories I've heard from my Dad. (of all people), I wonder if these are true or just old Detroit folklore...

1. Someone tried jumping that bridge, when it was going up. Ended up making the bridge, but ended up distroying the car.

2. Someone's car stalled on the bridge.. and they had to chain the tires to the bridge so they could raise it...(I don't even believe that.... so...)

3. Someone tried jumping the bridge and ended up in the river...(in a car of course...)

Any truth to any of these??? :-)

They sound kinda silly to me, But again, this is Detroit, anything can happen... (kinda like Porky Pig in wackyland... IT CAN HAPPEN HERE!) :P

-Chuck
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 38
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

These bridges are some of my earliest childhood memories...we called them the 'singing bridges' due to the tone generated when tired rolled over the metal grid roadway.

That tone changed slightly with the advent of radial tires...pitch raised quite a bit. Could be the speed I take 'em at versus how my mum did, too.




Yeah! "HUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMM!" Was wild man! LOL!

and what was really wild is, if you were ever STUCK on those bridge, if there was a traffic back up!... Remember??? BOUNCE BOUNCE BOUNCE!!!! That was some scary stuff man, especally if there was a big semi coming the other way.. LOL! If he was loaded and heavy, you'd be doing to bouncing around... I always hated that...

The other scary thing was being ON the Bridge and hearing... DING DING DING... (it didn't sound like railroad crossing bells, it's slower and spookier too!) Ding......ding.....ding.. Oh crap! get off the bridge! :-)

Such memories as a youngin...

-Chuck
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 6107
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You ever feel the I-75 bridge move when you're stuck on it NOW?

That feeling is even worse...you expect a drawbridge to move.
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K8cpachuck
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Post Number: 40
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Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

You ever feel the I-75 bridge move when you're stuck on it NOW?

That feeling is even worse...you expect a drawbridge to move.




Yeah. I have. that is spooky... :-O

-Chuck
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2598
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 128.36.14.165
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In addition to all the industry and labor history those bridges "saw", they also overarched the vast majority of bootleg booze snuck into the US back in prohibition days.
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 41
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

In addition to all the industry and labor history those bridges "saw", they also overarched the vast majority of bootleg booze snuck into the US back in prohibition days.




That I can believe. There was alot of that going back in them days. My question is, what kinda bridges where there before the them bridges were built? and if there were none, how'd people get out to the burbs in the horse and buggy days? I know that fort street was used in the horse and buggy days... so, there had to be a bridge of some sort... I mean, they didn't fly across that rouge river! :-O LOL! anyhow.... anyone?

-Chuck
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 6110
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Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sweet!


Someone needs to make an 'if these bridges could talk' book on the subject...sounds like BusterWMU is already well along on the subject!
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 982
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back during the 1950s, the drawbridge across the Milwaukee River on Milwaukee's main downtown drag--Wisconsin Ave--starting going up w/o the bridgetender realizing a city bus was almost midway across. Fortunately, the driver "gunned" it across the gap and made it to the other span before it got lifted too high.

Probably was that tender's last official act...
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 42
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Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Probably was that tender's last official act...




:-O Ya think?!?! :-O LOL!

I'd love a job like that man, would be sweet.

-Chuck
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4035
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.171.136.201
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Busterwmu gives us a wonderful post. Very interesting. jjaba doesn't know the area so this was very educational. Thanks.

So this is still active today. How much of the ship traffic is related to the Ford Rouge operation, now and when Henry Ford was alive with his 100,000 workers out there?

jjaba hopes nobody is confusing the Miller Road overpass with these draw bridges in labor history.

Thanks to CPAchuck for his memories. Wonderful.

jjaba, on the Michigan Ave.-Rouge Plant Streetcar..
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2599
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Posted From: 128.36.14.165
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well prior to the rouge plant there would have been no reason to have the rouge industrially navagable (sp?) all the way up to where Dix crossed. As a kid I recall playing in an adandoned old brick building that looked pre 1900 in a wooded area along the river between fort and dix that we called the Ferry house but I doubt there was really was a ferry there. (I looked on Google satellite image but I couldn't find anthing familiar).

MikeM posts all sorts of old maps of the city and would have the scoop on old bridges.

second thread in as many days where I light up the Batsignal for MikeM!!!
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 984
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba: The Fort Street bridge has a plaque commemorating some labor/management disturbance, but I thought, as you, it was in error (about the Miller Road incident). Apparently, there were at least two such events.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 6112
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, MikeM misses another, he loses his SuperPower status, doesn't he?!


Does he have to give anything BACK to Jjaba then?
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 3479
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Posted From: 68.248.90.157
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba,
the march started near the Fort St bridge, went down Miller Road. Just an addendum.

From Jim's Historical Marker Site, the plaque on the Fort Street bridge states:

quote:

Ford Hunger March
On March 7, 1932, in the midst of the Depression, unemployed autoworkers, their families and union organizers braved bitter cold temperatures and gathered at this bridge, intent on marching to the Ford Rouge Plant and presenting a list of demands to Henry Ford. Some three thousand "hunger marchers" paraded down Miller Road. At the city limit Dearborn police blocked their path and hurled tear gas; The marchers responded with rocks and frozen mud. Near Gate No. 3 the demonstrators were bombarded by water from firehoses and a barrage of bullets. In the end, five marchers were killed, nineteen wounded by gunfire and numerous others by stones, bricks and clubs. Newspapers alleged the marchers were communists, but they were in fact people of all political, racial and ethnic backgrounds.




jjaba, I realize those from the affluent NW Detroit are confused by the industry of SW Detroit but take the #29 Vernor to get to the Rouge.

JamS, cooking Chicken Paprikash in Delray for the tourist buses to Zug Island.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 986
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another addendum: Ford has restored the look and feel of Miller Road to what it was like during that era.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 6113
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Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That pseudo-documentary on Fordism and its effects on the city that Lowell was in...while driving in the rain...told of some long march beginning one of the major strikes then...very different than the wars fought on the Miller Road overpass on the way to Gate 4.


Here is some interesting history from a first-page google.
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 45
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

From Jim's Historical Marker Site, the plaque on the Fort Street bridge states:




I've seen that plaque in person and on the net... those were rough times. kinda like were going through today... it sucks... no work around here at all. :-(

-Chuck
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 6114
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Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My grandpappy was a pro-union foreman during that time...wish I could ask him of his conflicts having to wear that tie and be a company man while his direct worker-friends were getting the excrement beaten out of 'em.
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K8cpachuck
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Post Number: 46
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Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

That pseudo-documentary on Fordism and its effects on the city that Lowell was in...while driving in the rain...told of some long march beginning one of the major strikes then...very different than the wars fought on the Miller Road overpass on the way to Gate 4.


Here is some interesting history from a first-page google.




Another good place to look for the REAL history of the Labor movement in this wonderful town of ours is here..:

70 Years of the UAW... A Flash presentation..Awesome to Watch!
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 988
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vernor bus is route #49.
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K8cpachuck
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Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 49
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Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Vernor bus is route #49




That's one thing I never have done, is rode the city busses in Detroit. My folks always had a car. so, we drove everywhere. One time, I rode a city bus, The Cadillac plant on clark street was having a open house once and me and my mom went to it, we had to park a long ways from the plant. and I guess the plant got the city to let them use a bus to transport people from the parking lot to the place where the tour started. I thought it was neat. I was very little though, but I do remember the ride. My dad was in the plant working..

-Chuck
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Jjaba
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Posted From: 67.171.136.201
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jams for clearing up the locations of the famous Ford union marchers. There's a lot of history there. Including jjaba's Northlawn and Schoolcraft, and Brightmoor, there's nuthin' more affluent in NW Detroit than SW Detroit. But finding good chicken paprikash over here might be hard to find; sounds great. What time is dinner?

jjaba, on the Vernor bus.
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Billybbrew
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Post Number: 184
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I watched a Jeep Cherokee jump off the 141 Bridge over the Old Rouge (Zug Island Road). The bridge was about 6 or so feet up in the air and the guy gunned it. When he landed on shore he rolled the Jeep a couple of times and slid about 200 feet down past where he landed. Pretty scary to watch from 10 feet away....
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Busterwmu
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Post Number: 256
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Posted From: 68.164.106.52
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ford Motor Company had their own fleet of ore boats from the beginning of the Rouge plant era until 1989. At one point during the 1950s and 1960s, they had 5 boats: the William Clay Ford, Benson Ford, Henry Ford II, Ernest R. Breech, and John Dykstra. The William Clay was the flagship of the fleet, yet had a relitavely short life. It's pilothouse is at the Dossin Museum. The bow and forward cabins of the Benson Ford are now a part of a residence on South Bass Island in Lake Erie. The Ernest R. Breech still sails today as the Voyageur Independent. The William Clay, HF II and Dykstra were scrapped in the 80s. When the Benson, William Clay, and HF II were scrapped, Ford purchased the Edward B. Greene and Walter A. Sterling from the Cleveland Cliffs Steamship Company, and sailed them from about 1983 or 1984 until the end of the Ford era in 1989. Also sailing until that time was the Breech. The Greene was renamed the Benson Ford, and the Sterling the William Clay Ford. When the Ford fleet folded in 89, the Breech became the Kinsman Independent, sailing with that name until 2004 when it laid up until being renamed the Voyageur Independent. The two former Cleveland Cliffs boats were sold to Interlake Steamship Co and sail under a division of the fleet named Lakes Shipping Co. The Greene/Benson Ford became the Kaye E. Barker, and the Sterling/William Clay became the Lee A. Tregurtha. Both still regularly call on the Rouge Plant with ore. Also, Interlake's steamer Charles M. Beeghly, steamer Herbert C. Jackson, and tug Dorothy Ann/barge Pathfinder are familiar sights with ore for today's Severstal Steel.

I don't know about years past, but probably 3-4 boatloads of ore come into the Rouge every week these days, sometimes as many as 5. The Kaye E. Barker came in with ore today, and the Herbert C. Jackson is expected tomorrow afternoon. Occassionally, a Canada Steamship Lines boat will come into the Rouge to load Millscale or some other bi-product of the Steel making process.
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Pdtpuck
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Posted From: 208.251.168.194
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw the Tregurtha in Duluth in May. Didn't Ford also have something to do with the Oglebay Norton also, or am I mistaken? (saw it in Duluth, too). (sorry for the threadjack!)
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Busterwmu
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Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not that I am aware of. (Though I'm not sure if you are refering to the company Oglebay Norton or the ship Oglebay Norton). The freighter ON is a 1000 footer and could not fit through the Rouge. The Lee A. Tregurtha, at 826', it the longest boat which can transit the Rouge. I'll post some bridge photos in the next couple days.
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Hornwrecker
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Post Number: 1277
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Posted From: 63.157.67.169
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's your damn map. :-) Everything else I had was too low a resolution, or didn't show that area as it was not in Detroit in the earlier maps. The Fort St bridge is listed as being made of iron, no other details given.



(Message edited by Hornwrecker on July 02, 2006)
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Pdtpuck
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Post Number: 91
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Posted From: 208.251.168.194
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Not that I am aware of. (Though I'm not sure if you are refering to the company Oglebay Norton or the ship Oglebay Norton). The freighter ON is a 1000 footer and could not fit through the Rouge. The Lee A. Tregurtha, at 826', it the longest boat which can transit the Rouge. I'll post some bridge photos in the next couple days.



I was referring to the ship, but now that I see your post, I believe I saw something in the "Duluth Shipping News" while I was there about it (the ON), and it was right next to the post about the Tregurtha, so maybe that's where my confusion lies! FYI, the Tregurtha was in Duluth loading ore for Detroit! Thanx for the info, though! :-)
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Jjaba
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Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 2:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is an excellent thread. Very educational. Thanks.

In honor of Delray does the First Mate sing the Hungarian National Anthem and break out Chicken Paprakash for the deserving crew as the enter the Rouge River?

jjaba.
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Busterwmu
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Post Number: 258
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Posted From: 68.164.106.52
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rouge Tour:
Dix Avenue Bridge
Sykes
The Steamer Wilfred Sykes sneaks through the Dix Avenue Drawbridge after unloading a cargo of taconite ore at Rouge Steel in 2002.

Anderson Dix
The Steamer Arthur M. Anderson unloads a cargo of Limestone at the old Detroit Lime Terminal. The dock is so close to the Dix Avenue Bridge that the Anderson's steering ploe has been turned in. A good detail of the Bridge tower - this is the unused side. The Lime Terminal is currently being dismantled.

Fort St. Bridge:
Fort 1
This is the view from the River heading downstream approaching the Fort St. drawbridge. As Fort St. opens, you can see that the Ns Bridge is already up for us. The I-75 overpass is also in the background.


Here is the other side of the Fort Bridge, looking UpRiver. The M/V Diamond Belle is shown coming through thr Bridge. Note the single bridge tower (I see your note K8cpachuck about there only being 1 tower by the 80s, I did not know that :-)), and the arches used for the streetcar wires.

NS Bridge & I-75:

The Diamond Belle is dwarfed by the I-75 overpass, nearly 100 feet above the water level, and also the NS Railroad Bridge. This view looks upstream towards Fort Street.

Conrail Bridge:
CR Bridge
A good silhouette shot of a southbound train crossing the Conrail Bridge. Note the massive concrete counter-weight on the left. This view looks downstream.

CR Bridge and Belle
With the train passed, the Diamond Queen and Diamond Belle can go through the opened Conrail Bridge. This sunny side shot provides more detail.

More CR Bridge, with a zoom lense from Jefferson:
Algosoo
The Conrail Bridge even makes the big freighters look small. Here, Algoma Central Marine's Algosoo is assisted through the bridge by the G Tugs Wyoming and Maine.


Canada Steamship Lines' steamer Halifax, a 730' long freighter, is shown unloading stone at the St. Mary's Cement Terminal next to the open Conrail Bridge.

Jefferson Avenue Bridge:
Munson 1
Here, the steamer John G. Munson is shown unloading stone at the Karmooth/Marblehead stone dock as the Jefferson Ave. Bridge opens for the outbound Diamond Queen. This view looks toward the Detroit River.

Barker 1
The steamer Kaye E. Barker (of Lakes Shipping Co/Interlake Steamship), formerly the Edward B. Greene of the Cleveland-Cliffs Steamship Co, and also serving for a few years as Ford Motor Company's Benson Ford, is shown coming inbound the Rouge through the Jefferson Ave. Bridge in this photo and below.
Barker 2

Jefferson/Pathfinder
Looking upstream at the Jefferson Ave Bridge, we see the tug/barge Dorothy Ann/Pathfinder unloading at the Levy Stone Dock above Jefferson. The Conrail Bridge is raised in the distance.

Shortcut Bridge:

The Diamond Belle looks tiny as she clears the Shortcut Bridge, the last of 6 movable bridges in the Rouge River. The large steam lines link the steel mills on Zug Island with the Detroit Edison River Rouge Plant, to ensure that any excess from one plant can be utilized by the other, etc.

I hope you enjoyed the tour!
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Pdtpuck
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Posted From: 208.251.168.194
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 3:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

great stuff, Buster!
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Billybbrew
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Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 185
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Posted From: 172.165.5.223
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 4:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And I thought I came here to escape from work :-)
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Bvos
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Posted From: 134.215.223.211
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the great tour Buster! Another great post that you'll only get on DetroitYes!
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Zulu_warrior
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Post Number: 2899
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Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And its time for an upgrade of these bridges....


Fort Street (M-85) Bridge Replacement Study


Built in 1922 by the Wayne County Road Commission, the Fort Street Bridge is one of three drawbridges on the Rouge River built to accommodate freighter traffic to and from the Ford Rouge complex. The historically significant bridge was a critical crossing point for the 1933 Hunger March, a key event in the formation of the United Auto Workers union.


The operator’s house at the east end of the bridge

After more than 80 years of service, the bridge has many deficiencies that need to be addressed, including inward pier migration, structural deterioration, inadequacies in the electrical and mechanical systems, a substandard fender system, and a horizontal clearance that does not meet current U.S. Coast Guard standards. Although extensive repairs have been made to the bridge over the years, replacement or a major rehabilitation is imminent. In addition to correcting bridge problems, there also is a need to improve the current alignment of the Fort Street/Oakland Boulevard intersection to better define M-85 as the through route.

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0 ,1607,7-151-9621_11058_33926-1 05921--,00.html

Here is the environmental assessment:
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0 ,1607,7-151-9621_11058_33926-1 05981--,00.html
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5662
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Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks! Awesome photo set.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2632
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, thanks Buster! I love the Wilfred Syke, but I've never known an Inland Steel ship to pass through our straits. I'd love to see the Edward L Ryerson pass by one of these days (other than on her way to a scrapyard).

I know nothing about drawbridges, but here's a little Rouge River history, somewhat tedious, courtesy of "Essays: A History of the Detroit District, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers"

Part I:

quote:

When the Rouge River was examined in 1886 to determine if it should be surveyed and eventually improved for navigation, it emptied into the Detroit River about one mile west of the then present limits of the city of Detroit. Though only about 50 miles in length, the Rouge River in its natural state was “somewhat remarkable in depth of water in its lower reaches, having a channel of 1l feet at its mouth, and from 13 to 18 feet for... a distance of 1 ¼ miles.” In the early days, light-draft vessels ascended the river to the city of Dearborn, a distance of 15 miles.

Already in 1886, the waterfront of the Detroit River. both above the mouth of the Rouge River and to the easterly city limits, was fully occupied by manufacturing establishments, and “a very decided movement” was being made to seek locations at the junction of the Detroit and Rouge Rivers and along the banks of the latter. The Detroit City Glass Works, the Delta Company’s lumber docks, the Anchor Manufacturing Company and the Michigan Carbon Works were already situated on the lower reaches of the Rouge River and all received supplies of raw materials from other states and from Canada. Arrangements were being made for other enterprises to move to the area and it could be anticipated that business would increase steadily year by year. Lieutenant Colonel Orlando M. Poe, who made the preliminary examination, recommended that survey be made at as early a date as practical.

An act of August 5, 1886, authorized a survey which resulted in a project for improving the Rouge River from its junction with the Detroit River upstream for a distance of 15.000 feet, or to the practical head of navigation, because of a bridge there of the St. Louis and Wabash Railway.

The river and harbor act of August 11, 1888, appropriated $10,000 to begin the project. In the fall of 1888 and the spring of 1889, a single dredge worked 565 hours and 45 minutes to remove 81,000 cubic yards. for which the contractor received $9,333, an hourly earning of $16.50. For this comparatively modest sum, a channel 16 feet deep and 240 feet wide was achieved at the river’s mouth, and from there decreasing to 100-foot width to a point about 1,150 feet upstream. Beyond this point, there was a channel 60 feet wide for an additional distance of 7,600 feet.

Commerce on the Rouge River may have totaled about 194,000 tons in 1888, and generally it remained around 100,000 tons until 1903. As funds were made available by river and harbor acts of September 19, 1890, and November 18, 1892, the entire stretch from the mouth of the Rouge River, 15,000 feet upstream to the Wabash Railway Bridge, was dredged to a uniform depth of 16 feet and a varying width from 240 feet to 70 feet. This project was completed by 1892, but it was anticipated that a dredged channel in such a narrow stream with a soft bed would require periodic maintenance.

The St. Louis and Wabash Railway, meanwhile, planned an alteration of the location of its bridge, thus opening an additional stretch of river for navigation. The river and harbor act of June 3, 1896, authorized a survey with the objective of extending the Rouge River project at a 16-foot depth and 75-foot width from the Wabash Bridge Crossing to Maples Road, an additional distance of 1¾ miles. The only industrial establishment then located on this stretch of the river was a work of the Detroit Salt Company which, in 1897, was manufacturing 200,000 barrels of salt yearly and anticipated opening a new operation with a capacity for 300 tons daily. The salt company reported on June 4, 1897, “We already have our slips dredged ready for boats as soon as we can get them to our docks.” Dredging the stretch of river from the Wabash Railway crossing to Maples Road to a depth of 13 feet was authorized by Congress by joint resolution approved April 11, 1898.

In 1903, after the large plant of the Detroit Iron and Steel Corporation was established near the mouth of the Rouge River. it was recommended that the depth of the first 1,400 feet of the lower reach of the project be increased to 21 feet. The river and harbor act of March 2, 1907, provided for this modification. The approved project was completed before 1912.

Meanwhile, commerce on the river increased considerably. In 1903, it was about 135,000 tons, by 1909 it reached 336,000 tons, by 1912 it was nearly a million tons greater or 1,321,000 tons, and by 1916, 1,415,000 tons at a value in excess of $5 million. Shipments were negligible but receipts of such bulk items as gravel and sand, iron ore, petroleum products and stone well justified the $106,000 which had been expended on the project between 1888 and June 30, 1917.






circa 1917

Part II:

quote:

Two days before Major Burgess became Detroit District Engineer, on July 27, 1916, President Woodrow Wilson signed a rivers and harbors act which, among other things, called for an examination of the Rouge River to determine what, if any. further improvement should be undertaken there. Responsibility for the examination was assigned to Major Burgess by the Chief of Engineers. A civilian engineer in the Detroit office, Mr. Bamlet Kent, carried out the investigation.

To obtain the views of people interested in improvement of the Rouge River. letters were sent to all those who owned property along its improved lower reaches and a public hearing was held at the Board of Commerce Building in Detroit on November 16. Responses to inquiries and the public hearing made clear that further improvement of the river was desired primarily because the Ford Motor Company was constructing a large industrial plant which would occupy about 3,000 feet of river frontage immediately below Maple Road near the head of the federal improvement. The company also proposed excavating a large turning basin at the head of the improved channel. The plant. which was expected to employ 15,000 people, was to include two blast furnaces which would require about 6,000 tons of iron ore daily for full operation. Additional blast furnaces were to be added as needed. The iron ore would be brought in by water and it was anticipated that the Ford Motor Company might ship 50 percent of its factory product by this means. Economic handling of iron ore required a channel sufficient for boats 600 feet long with 65-foot beam and 20-foot draft. Among other firms desiring the improvement were the Detroit United Railway Company and the Thomas Forman Lumber Company, both of which also had docks on the river.

In his report to the Chief of Engineers on December 12,1916, Major Burgess favored a plan which would make use of a privately owned cutoff canal which had been constructed on 1886. This 3,000 foot long canal extended from the Detroit River about one mile below the mouth of the Rouge River to a point on the Rouge River about 1¼ miles above its mouth. The plan also included two new cutoffs to eliminate bends in the river near the head of the project. Improvement of the private canal was preferred to improvement of the natural river because it was shorter and it avoided an S-shaped curve in the lower reaches of the Rouge river which made it unlikely that vessels of over 400 feet in length could ever navigate there. This improvement, Major Burgess explained, would be of benefit to owners of land along the river but it would also be of more general benefit. “It is believed,” he predicted. “that within a few years after completion of a channel suitable for the largest lake carriers, the total annual freight movement upon the Rouge will considerably exceed 3 million tons, and that there will be a continual growth thereafter.” “My conclusion,” he added, “is that the general and the private benefit are so intermingled that the cost of the improvement ought to be divided between the United States and the locality.” The United States should pay for and carry out the necessary dredging, while local interests should donate the necessary land, settle claim for damages and assume costs of alteration of bridges when this could not be required of bridge owners.”

Major Burgess submitted his report through Colonel J. G. Warren, Lakes Division Engineer at Buffalo, New York, who recommended against the project because the improvement would be “primarily in the interests of the Ford Motor Company.” However, both the Board of Engineers for Rivers and Harbors and the Chief of Engineers supported Major Burgess’ recommendation. On February 5, 1917, the Chief of Engineers telegraphed Major Burgess, instructing him to prepare a cost estimate for his proposal so that a report could be made to Congress as soon as possible. Major Burgess estimated the project would involve dredging of 3,150,000 cubic yards of material at a cost of $490,000 including contingencies and engineering. Congress adopted the project in the river and harbor act of August 8, 1917. On November 3, 1919, the Secretary of War accepted a bond of an indefinite amount furnished by Mr. Henry Ford to cover the costs of all necessary rights-of-way, alteration of bridges, and incidental damages, and to provide a turning basin free for public use at the upper end of the improvement. The project was completed in 1923.

In presenting his proposed Rouge River improvement, Major Burgess had called attention to the fact that dredging would always be required to maintain the new channel. After the project was completed, maintenance dredging was carried out annually by contract or with government equipment and hired labor. In 1929, about 500,000 cubic yards of material was removed from the 21-foot project channel by the U.S. hopper dredges Burton and Meade. Major Burgess prediction that in a few years freight movement on the Rouge River would exceed 3 million tons annually also proved correct. This figure was exceeded in 1921. In 1929, freight traffic on the Rouge River was nearly 6 million tons and consisted mainly of gravel and sand, iron ore, steel, and petroleum products.

The Rouge River project was the only significant harbor improvement authorized in the l920’s within the Detroit District’s area of responsibility.




(Message edited by MikeM on July 06, 2006)
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Jjaba
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Posted From: 67.171.136.201
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent site. Thanks to BusterWMU and MikeM. Who would have thought that Ford Rouge would grow to 100,000 workers on that site, the largest industrial complex in the World.

jjaba.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1324
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Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great shots, buster!! I recall when both the Sykes and the Ryerson first came out. They were both frequent visitors thru the Straits of Mackinac when I was the bell captain at the Grand Hotel and I would watch them pass by from a majestic view from the front porch.
It is doubtful that the Ryerson is going anywhere other than the smelter.
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Billybbrew
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Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 186
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah Rock, but you are wrong. Apparently you haven't been reading your "Boatnerd" news. The Ryerson IS currently fitting out and will be sailing in about 10 days......
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1326
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Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 8:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The rock is never wrong----he just needs to be corrected occasionally. Thanks for the information, Billyb. I will have to get back on the boatnerd mailing list.
Mikem will be especially happy to see that the Ryerson is scheduled to sail again. That vessel is his favorite.
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Scofield
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Username: Scofield

Post Number: 2
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Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice pics Busterwmu.

:-)
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Busterwmu
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Post Number: 259
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 217.195.233.67
Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks guys! I've learned a few things here myself!

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