  Mike Member Username: Mike Post Number: 636 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.93.235 |
Somehow this does not suprise me... Little blurb from www.leftlanenews.com List: Top ten U.S. cities for speed traps This week, the SpeedTrap Exchange put out a list of the top ten areas that combine needlessly low speed limits with aggressive enforcement. In the eyes of many libertarians, these schemes exist to raise revenue for municipalities. The top ten, according to the organization, are: Detroit, Michigan suburbs Washington, D.C. Orlando, Florida Colorado Springs, Colorado Houston, Texas Virginia Beach, Virginia Austin, Texas Baton Rouge, Louisiana Nashville, Tennessee Fresno, California Did not really want to create a brand new thread and clutter space, but thought it would be an interesting tidbit for those on the way to the courthouse to pay a ridiculus ticket to bitch about. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 68 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
I got TWO tickets in less than a week, one in Warren and the other in Inkster. It was within days of my grandmother passing in May and I just wasn't paying attention to the 25 MPH speed limit on Frazho Rd. I was going 39....I thought the SL was 40, not that I cared. It was at 7 am and I was upset after being at my grandmothers house and her dying the day before. I was there to make funeral arrangements. I have a court date on the 23 of August. Wonder if they'll cut me some slack. The other was for running a yellow/red light but I honestly didn't think the jerk behind me was going to stop. I explained this to the cop but he could give a chit. Going to court on that one too....but no date as of yet. So, ok, this is my bitch......I'm done. B ut really, we do have some over zealous cops just itching to write tickets.... | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1024 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
That'll TEACH you! | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10289 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
I've got a pretty good track record for getting tickets dismissed or lowered when challenging them in court. If you go in with a pretty clean record, they are often easier on ya. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 69 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Other than these two I haven't had a ticket in Decades!~ I can only say that Livernois is right....that'll teach me....LOL My brain wasn't working right and my mind was on gramma's funeral and getting that together....had to be done in TWO days.....so I was a bit frazzled. Not an excuse, just a mitigating factor. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10291 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.37.236 |
I'd take an obituary or death certificate as proof if you can. I'm sure they hear all kinds of stories in the court room, I know I've heard some doozies. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1025 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
How would you feel as a passenger if your pilot (whose grammy just died) deviated into hostile airspace near North Korea and your plane got shot down? Of course, it's a bit of a stretch. | ||
Mike Member Username: Mike Post Number: 637 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.93.235 |
http://www.thecarconnection.co m/Extras/Contests/TCCs_Speedin g_Excuses_Contest.S207.A10511. html this could help... they are all over dearborn, speed traps are so common. but those living here almost always know when they are around. the ones i hate are those on i94 | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1649 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 75.10.21.159 |
Warren runs speed traps all over the place: 696, Macomb Community College, Mound Rd. in the old downtown, etc. They've got to balance the budget some how! Allen Park also has a speed trap set up on the Sfld. Fwy. Don't ever speed on the Sfld in Allen Park. It's pretty much a guaranteed that you'll get caught. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 600 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
I would say this is not the place to air your vulnerabilities because the scab pickers'll be all over you as you can see. Just toss them one of these and watch them go to work on these scabs.  Livedog2 | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1286 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 12.64.30.248 |
http://www.speedtrap.org/speed traps/ste_city.asp?state=MI | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1155 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.136.142.0 |
yeah, watch out for "Boots", he's always on the motorcycle parked in a church parking lot on the northbound side around lunchtime. he got me once, but I and about 30 other people in the courtroom one morning got out of em when he didn't show. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 71 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Livernois......I wasn't driving recklessly.....just wasn't going the posted limit. NO ONE else was around......and I mean NO ONE except the cop driving the sports car.....I had no passengers.......but will take an obit with me. It was on Frazho...the SL jumps around ont hat road more than a hot potato.....first 40 then 30 then 25 then back to 40....what's a girl to do?? | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1371 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.61.100.126 |
I had no idea you were a girl. Are you hot? There was a doozie of a speed trap on westbound 696 this evening. There were two state cops sitting side by side on motorcycles just past a bridge near Orchard Lake. Good thing I was heading eastbound... | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 72 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
I'm a teacher who doesn't look like a teacher.....I don't have an issue finding dates, if that answers your Hot questions....sheeeesh. Anywho.....I have an impecable record..except for these two minor foul ups. So I am sure they will have mercy on my hot little soul. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2391 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.219 |
There's a speed trap on I-94 coming around the bend just north of 8 Mile. Harper Woods and SCS share that blind spot. There's also a speed trap on I-94 in Dearborn, before the speed limit goes up to 65 (or is it 70?). There's a speed trap in Dearborn Heights on Warren as you're going near Rouge Park (near Ann Arbor Trail). There's a speed trap on 11 Mile in Roseville, just as you're approaching I-94 (at the SCS border). | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1372 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.61.100.126 |
Thanks for answering, I wasn't expecting an answer  | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 73 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Welcome...... | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 420 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
here's my so-far successful strategy: have a radar detector. when that fails and you get puled over, have a police sticker on your car and address the officer as "sir" or "ma'am" and be apologetic. when that fails & you get a ticket, take every ticket to court & hope the cops don't show up. when that fails, I've always been offered a higher fine for 0 points due to my clean driving record. I always keep it 'clean' by paying more for 0 points. I ride a ridiculously fast sportbike as my primary transportation. insert the ubiquitous 'go figure' here. **edited to say that my speeding policy is only with a clear line of sight, never around corners or over hills, never in the left lane for extended periods of time, and know your local hot-spots. whenever possible, find a fast decoy driver and run at their speed at least 10 car lengths behind. think like a traffic cop and your 80% ahead of the game (Message edited by paulj on July 05, 2006) | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1630 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.132.81 |
Zero points will only work if you are on the expressway and have an Mph violation reduced to 75 Mph or an energy violation. I can't say for the courts in Detroit or the burbs but here in A2 the courts stopped giving advisement and forgiving points several years ago.And it is my understanding that the reason for this is a mandate from the court administrators in Lansing.So unless someone has a compelling reason it is unlikely Magistrate/Judge will vary much from case to case. I do think our teacher friend has a compelling circumstance and I have seen a Magistrate completely forgive a fine in a similar case.However I don't think the points were erased or forgiven but when factoring in the cost of the ticket and the increase that could happen to insurance rates it was a pretty good thing for the defendant. It is all a matter of record so Judge/Magistrate can't just dole out niceness because we want it. As for speed traps I can't say I have seen more than one and that is on Platt road south of A2 because there are very few posted Mph signs there so one must recall what the last sign they saw was and stick to that. Cops nailing people for speeding in area's where the speed limit is posted numerous times is not a speed trap.It is just people getting caught for speeding in an area where there is probably many speeders. Two example here in A2 which I know well are Huron Parkway and M14.On the appointed day for such cases several people wii have been stopped and ticketed for speeding on m14 where the limit is 55mph or Huron P'way where the limit never exceeds 40mph.When they complain of a "spped trap" the Magistrate points out that there are several signs that give the posted limit therefore no speed trap. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 979 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
"Zero points will only work if you are on the expressway and have an Mph violation reduced to 75 Mph or an energy violation. " Thats not true. Last year I had the points taken away after a ticket in downtown Brighton, Main Street actually for speeding.... And the police officer showed up for the meeting too, but said because I had a clean record they would drop the points for the fine... | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 46 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
"Best" speed trap: 275 @ 7 Mile. 1 Livonia police officer w/ a radar gun...4 officers parked on the shoulder waiting for the officer with the radar gun to radio in speeders. Livonia makes a lot of money on those days | ||
Mikeydbn Member Username: Mikeydbn Post Number: 319 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.41.96.170 |
Somebody told me that the Taylor PD recieved a grant to fund extra patrols in the speed trap on Telegraph between 94 and Ecorse. | ||
Mikeydbn Member Username: Mikeydbn Post Number: 320 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.41.96.170 |
Also, there is one on Telegraph between Plymouth Rd. and 96 in Redford | ||
Mikeydbn Member Username: Mikeydbn Post Number: 321 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 68.41.96.170 |
The MSP like to sit on 275 between 5 mile and 10 mile | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 422 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
I got let off from a left turn at a no-left-turn in GPP last year to 'obstructing traffic', thank you GPP prosecutor. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 74 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
My brother in law is a cop and he says I'm a sure candidate for a reduced infraction like no seat belt (although I always wear one). The cop in Warren told me to go to court. Obviously he didn't see that I was balling my eyes out....either that or he gets it alot. I wasn't crying cuz I got stopped though....The Inkster cop was just an ASS. Cops sit all the time at the Gardner White store parking lot just south of Ecorse Rd on Telegraph waiting for speeders.....they pulled my son over everyday on his way to school.....it got comical. They never gave him a ticket but he looked suspicious in a beat up old car......and he was speeding each day.....by his own admission. He just is a sweet kid and can sell ice to Eskimos. | ||
Swgz31 Member Username: Swgz31 Post Number: 3 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.43.3.234 |
I always try to be careful on 94 between 9 and 8 mile heading downtown where the speed limit goes from 65 to 55, it seems someone is always pulled over there, especially in the late hours of night or early hours of morning. I've been pulled over for nearly anything in the Grosse Pointes from passengers not wearing seatbelts to 6 over the speed limit... On a side note, I'm a criminal justice major at MSU and we had a state patrolman lecture the class one day. Sure enough the question was asked how much one can speed without getting pulled over. Simply don't speed more than 10 over, and most likely you'll be fine unless the cops are looken for somethen. | ||
Boshna Member Username: Boshna Post Number: 135 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 71.227.103.29 |
Outer Drive between Wyoming and Livernois is a favorite at dismissal time for U of D High. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 100 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Nothing worse than a suburban cop with nothing better to do than to nab you while you are turning left in a no left turn intersection despite the fact that it is almost midnight and traffic is nonexistent. | ||
Ptero Member Username: Ptero Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 4.229.36.19 |
Agreed regarding MSP on 275! Last summer I saw at least 14 MSP motorcycles along a 3 or 4 mile stretch on 275. They were working both sides up and down. At the moment I went through, about half had cars stopped, about half were sitting on the median looking for more to stop. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1631 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.213 |
I will say it again if there is a posted speed limit the only "speed trap" is the driver trapping him/herself into a ticket by speeding. Depmayor the insurance co is gonna love you until they drop you good luck getting ins with that kind of attitude.Some rules are dumb perhaps and at midnite when no one is around it is annoying to get caught making a clearly illegal turn blah blah blah.......trus me it is much easier and cheaper to just obey the damn rules. | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 424 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
hey heres my take..... I get the game. I also know that it's possible, under the right circumstances, to safely operate my vehicle at speeds much higher than thje posted speed limit. I understand how the radar technology works, I understand that there are certain hiding places. Despite the fact that my vehicle weighs only 450 pounds and poses almost no threat to anyone but myself, the law wants to paint me with the same brush as a tractor trailer. In Germany, people operate at speeds well over 100 MPH daily, and do it safely. So it's electronic warefare, OK. I'll take my precautions, use my radar detector, and be very choosy about the whens & wheres. But make no mistake, I don't feel guilty or bad, I just know that it's a matter of circumstances and that the law has decided to frame itself around the lowest common denominator and least skilled drivers. If pulled over I'm polite and understand the circumstances, but don't need a lecturing. It's a game and I dont feel it's morally reprehensible to take a motorcycle out on an open country road with no one around & let it strech its legs a little. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1632 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.213 |
I think your point about it being a a game is well put Paulj.Just remember when the game is played in the "mans" playground you and I are likely to lose. | ||
Mike Member Username: Mike Post Number: 638 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.93.235 |
i would like to see the direct corelation between speed traps and traffic accidents. I would imagine that there isn't one. I would imagine that speed traps really do not protect the roads. There main intention is to raise revenue. Now, if the police car was driving along side traffic, that would force everyone to drive safer. Ever drive on Chicago freeways? The speed limit is only 55 but yet everyone drives much faster than that, even though there are cops around. Its like the cops will only pull you over if your driving over the top and about to injure someone. Or driving a really fast sports car. (Message edited by mike on July 06, 2006) | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 316 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56 |
Livonia banks on 275, I can see them nailing people left and right from my office. They're especially feisty at lunchtime from 8 mile down to 5 mile-ish. and Paulj, you left out the other "if that fails", have the officer break your helmet... Mike...is there ever a chance to get up to 55 on a Chicago freeway??? | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 390 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
"Now, if the police car was driving along side traffic, that would force everyone to drive safer." That's the whole point of speed traps isn't it? A lot of people will only follow the speed limit when they see a police car. When you don't know where a police car might be hiding it will make you more cognizant of the speed limit. Most people don't break laws when they know the police are looking. What about police giving out tickets for speeding while they're driving an unmarked car? That wouldn't be fair because you're suppose to be able to see them from a hundred yards away so you can slow down? | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1633 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.213 |
That is a myth about supposed to be able to see them. Most people don't speed at all.Most people obey the traffic laws and rules.It is a minority of drivers commiting the majority of traffic offenses. I certainly am not being self righteous.I speak from personal experience of years of getting one to two tickets a year and paying fines and higher insurance rates.Driving life is much easier now.........I OBEY THE TRAFFIC LAWS. | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 318 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56 |
I love it when you see a cop car on the highway and nobody will dare to pass it. Shit cracks me up. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2393 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.90.176 |
If that doesn't sound self righteous, then I don't know what does! | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1979 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
People will drive the speed they consider safe. It doesn't matter what the speed limit is. Speed limits are usually set by the 80th percentile rule. That means they are set to the speed 80% of the people will drive in that stretch of road. If a speed limit is set too low people will always ignore it. They just raised speed limits on some of the near in freeways because way too many people were exceeding the limit. The first to be raised was the stretch of I-75 between Eureka road and outer drive. It went from 65 to 70 just a couple of weeks ago. So yes, most people drive the limit. Since that's the most comfortable, Not because of what it says on the sign. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1634 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 67.36.21.222 |
Thats bullshit from both davies and gistock_ people drive the limit because it is posted those that don't as I said before are the ones making most of the violations; speeding running yellow lights, coasting thru stop signs etc etc_ Gistock if stating that I obey traffic rules is self ritghteous you need a dictionary. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1982 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.52.159 |
Bullshit CL. Get your head out of your ass and look at the real data. Collected by the federal and state governments. There are many studies that verify my conjecture http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/p-s l.html http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl- irrel.html
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/biz/tr afficoperations/traffic/limits .htm http://www.leftlanenews.com/20 06/05/15/texas-to-raise-speed- limits-to-conform-to-driver-ha bits/
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0, 1607,7-123-1593_25680_25802-87 384--,00.html
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/spe ed/speedbrochure.html#regulato ry Do you need more proof. or are you going to keep your head firmly implanted up your ass. Just because you belive that doesn't make it so. Where's your independent data to back your idiotic conjecture. (Message edited by ndavies on July 06, 2006) (Message edited by ndavies on July 06, 2006) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2399 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.165 |
Citylover, go back and reread your threads.... your first post was great, made a lot of sense. But then in your subsequet posts you went into "lecture mode"... people just don't like to be lectured to.... This thread was about where speed traps are. We all know the logic behind why speed limits are posted, and the consequences thereof, no one was arguing about that, so there was no need to "preach to the choir".... We were just discussing WHERE speed traps were. Simply that, nothing more... (Message edited by Gistok on July 06, 2006) | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1635 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.23 |
Proof of what Ndavies? You linked something about unrealistic speed limits.Well if the cops determine that it is unrealistic then it probably gets raised.But what about when it is not unrealistic? Anyone can drive.Driving carefully and with caution is another matter that is being a good driver.The thread is about alleged speed traps.I have pointed out that the term speed trap is in itself a misleading thing. I also pointed out that a few people are responsible for the majority of violations.I am sure you have seen it at the sec of state as I have a little pie chart where in a sliver of the pie is the percentage of driver with more than 2-3 points. I have never ever heard anyone in traffic court say that they were going at a speed they thought was safe and effecient for their purposes.I live in an area close to one of the main atreries here in AA(there are only a few) where the limit is 30mph.There are driveways and businesses and people biking and riding and walking,and the cops sit several times a week and nail people for speeding.Not because it is an unrealistic limit(very very few are) but because they are not paying attention to the traffic signs. Gistock I acept your explanation and apologize for being crude and harsh. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1983 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.52.159 |
you were the one that called my post bullshit. I then backed it up with quotes from the government that basically stated the exact same thing I said my original quote
The governments quote
Where is the difference in what I said and what the governemtn said? Yet you called my quote bullshit. Drivers always drive at the speed they feel comfotable at. The speed limit has little to do with it. Once again from the federal report.
| ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1636 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.23 |
This is sillly.I stand by what I said and you can stand by your stuff.I will continue to be very careul about watching for no turn on red and speed limit signs and whatever else I must look out for to conform as best I am able; and you can do whatever it is you do.I am not important enough to be anywhere other then when I get there and I can easily do that by going the posted speed limit. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 690 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
I can only note that I got my first driver's license at the age of 14 in 1950. I can also note that in 56 years of driving -- and I drive a lot -- I've never had a ticket. Only one accident; got rear-ended in '64. Grand River and Dumbarton. | ||
Wabashrr1 Member Username: Wabashrr1 Post Number: 180 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 172.147.227.89 |
Allen Park, Melvindale, Dearborn Heights speed traps. Be particularly weary of the one east side of Southfeild road going onto Van Born. They make a LOT of money with that one. The one on the other side of the freeway, the police (Allen Park) sit in the church parking lot. You won't see them until they see you. The one by where the VA hospital use to be has been there forever and frankly, anyone who gets busted there deserves a speeding ticket. The other at outer drive and enterprise, is relatively new. They use the Baker college driveway as a hiding spot. You come over the hill, and there they are. Good luck.  | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 426 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
I dont care when I get there, I just like going fast :-) tahst said, you never ever speed where you cant see the clear path ahead of you, cops or not. once I came over the top of a hill to find an extension ladder across my lane. an inconvienient repair in a car, a possible death sentence on a cycle. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1036 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.142.86.133 |
God has something changed? When I was working in Detroit in 2003 I commuted from Grosse Pointe Park to Chrysler. Took 94 to 696 to 75 and I drove FAST, particularly on 696 where speeds of 80-90 were not uncommon. In fact I'd often get passed. NEVER felt like I was gonna get nailed and never (as best as I can recall) saw anyone pulled over on either 696 or 75. I did see a couple on 94 around Harper Woods. Then I drove from Chicago to detroit fairly often. Michigan you could mostly do 75 or 80 and be safe. You'd see a few troopers here and there. Then as soon as you'd get to the point where 94 spreads into more lanes east of Detroit the speeds would jump dramatically. Again, I'd say 80 is pushing "slow", and rarely did I see anyone pulled over. Has the stuff changed or is it that they really like to hit up the non-freeway routes? Maybe that's why? As an aside, I nearly got pulled over in Allen Park over Memorial Day on my way to DTW to head back to CA. Doing probably 75 or 80 in either a 65 or 70. My savior was that some gal had passed me right before we came across Allen Park PD. Pulled her over instead. Thank God, as I had gotten my 1st speeding ticket here in CA 2 weeks before! Surprised AP was doing the patrol, and not MSP. Anyway, agreed on the speed limits. They are set to increase revenue NOT to increase safety. Why don't we make all the interstates 30? Or 45? When they're set too low, it is just as dangerous as going too fast. People get bored, they stop concentrating, they get drowsy. Speeds should almost ALWAYS be set at the 85th percentile. Most of the time they're not. Funny speeds have not increased as cars have become vastly more capable. Anyway, everything NDavies posted, I completely agree with. And speed differential is most dangerous, not speed itself. When you got someone obeying the limit because they don't want a ticket, and others are doing 20mph faster because that feels "comfortable", thats when the accidents happen. You need everyone going close to the same speed. I think people accept this as a risk. Most take their chances and pay their dues every now and then. If they start putting in speed cameras and continue to suppress limits, then we could have a big uproar. Or you'll turn everyone into a criminal and the insurance companies will be rolling in cash. FYI, Chicago has been artifically lowering limits and then complaining that people are speeding and thus they need speed cameras. They estimate that on Western Ave the city would make more than $13,000 per HOUR with speed cameras. And the worst thing is that leaders can pull a number out of their ass and make it so. NO voting. No studies. Just whatever they feel like. So they decrease it, put up cameras, and watch the bills come rolling in. What a freakin joke. You bet your ass if cameras become widespread I'll be shielding my plate. I'm willing to be millions of others will as well. Jeez...long post, sorry! | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 288 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
Have you tried a race track for that? No tickets there. | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 427 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
if there *was* a nearby track, i'd love to. nearest one is Grattan in Grand Rapids. Not only far away, but you have to drain your coolant, replaced it with water, and remove alot of street-necessary stuff before you even get to go out there. an all day thing to say the least. I much preferred the backroads of Nevada and the visibility you have there. 20-mile line of sight, it doesn't matter how fast you go as you can see the cars coming for minutes before you're in any kind of radar range. me & another rider from Idaho were able to cruise along in the mid-triple digit range for a couple hours out there. unreal. Out there they only believe in speed traps within city limits, where they belong. anyhow, all that said, where all the speed traps above have been mentioned, they're warranted. It makes me cringe when I see other riders using I-96 or the Lodge as their personal track. There's a time and a place, and anywhere within 50 miles of downtown detroit is *not* the place. I've been guilty myself of wicking it up a little on local highways, but only in the wee hours when there's almost no traffic. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 27 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 216.93.94.191 |
I agree with Citylover. There is no such thing as a speed "trap". Limits are clearly posted. If they aren't then you have a case against the ticket. Speed doesn't cause accidents? Do you think that Navigator would have flown over 6 lanes of traffic and left an imprint on the concrete wall if he wasn't going an estimated 100mph? Why is it that when most people get caught breaking the law the scream "trap"? Like the pedophiles who were "trapped" on Dateline. Obey the laws and your life will be much easier. When there is a horrific accident caused by a speeder, someone inevitably says "where were the cops? Why didn't they get this person off the road?" That's what these beefed up enforcements are trying to do. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1039 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.153.103.15 |
Obeying the law isn't the problem, its that the law is not just. Most speed limits are too low. That guy doing 100 would have done it anyway. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 28 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 216.93.94.25 |
You missed the point...if he was going slower he might not have gone over the edge. Speed kills, contrary to what someone previously said. The limits might be too low, but the law is the law. You can't break them just because you don't agree with them. Well, I guess you can but don't whine about getting a ticket in a "trap". | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 428 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.255.167.177 |
no whining here | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1004 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.23 |
The law is unjust and I refuse to follow it, especially when I'm on two wheels. If you want safe roads, institute a true driving skills test instead of allowing any uncoordinated moron to get a license. There are some people who simply shouldn't be on the road under any circumstances. Look around you. Speed combined with incompetent drivers, poorly maintained vehicles and roads, etc. kills. If it was simply "speed kills" then a lot more people would die in airplane crashes. I resent being treated like a criminal when I am operating my vehicle in a safe manner. And I further resent pinheads who trot out stupid slogans like "speed kills" or "follow the law" instead of using their critical thinking skills, if any. | ||
Wabashrr1 Member Username: Wabashrr1 Post Number: 183 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 172.145.164.216 |
That is without a doubt, the DUMBEST statement I've seen in this thread yet. How many people have you seen survive a plane crash?
By Whose standards? Yours? What qualifies you to make such judgements? The fact that you're still alive doesn't count because so are those you call morons. | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 429 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.255.167.177 |
wow wait a minute.... People drive the autobahn every year and they have a fine sadety record. Speed laws are set around an arbitrary, obbjective figure. There are many other driving behaviors that are more dangerous than speed ittself, but they're not as heavily enforced. Why? I can point at a speed gun and say 'this number is bigger than that number on the sign', but its nearly impossible proving tailgating in court. speeding is way less dangerous than tailgating, yet tailgating is subjective. so is driving in the left lane at 55 MPH or cutting people off. Speeding is the money maker, so enforcement is biased towards it. It *is* possible to operate your vehicle safely at 175 MPH, just probably not on any of the metro Detroit highways. (Message edited by paulj on July 07, 2006) | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1637 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.132.160 |
If paying attention to the posted limits and the various traffic rules makes me a moron......then I am a moron. If avoiding tickets and in turn avoiding paying fines to the courts and increased insurance rates means I lack crtical thinking skills then I am not only a non critical thinking moron but an extremely content one. As an aside on the bike/bus thread I do wonder how ndavies reconciles his point about bikes having the right to ride in traffic with his right to "speed" safely..... | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1006 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.23 |
No shit, people die in plane crashes, but: ** How many people die in plane crashes each year versus auto accidents? ** How much more likely is one to be killed in a car accident than a plane crash? ** How much faster do planes travel than cars? It is simply not true that "speed kills". But I guess we always have to dumb everything down so the pinheads can understand. Yes, by my standards. Until we have some other means of evaluating how safe people are in operating their vehicles, such as real driving tests, not the dumbed-down shit we have today to satisfy the morons, my own judgement will have to suffice. I dream that someday I won't have to worry that some jackass yakking on his cell phone while stuffing his fat face with a Big Mac is going to suddenly swerve into my lane because he dropped a french fry in his lap. CityLover - bicyclists don't travel on freeways. There's no inconsistency in Ndavies' statements. | ||
Wabashrr1 Member Username: Wabashrr1 Post Number: 184 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 172.134.190.24 |
Statistically it's true that more die in cars than in plane crashes but you really cannot compare the two for your 'speed doesn't kill' argument. First of all, Cars and people are operated on a 1:1 basis, that is, one car, one driver. Further, people driving cars, for better or for worse, share the same road. A much more confined space than the sky. While an airplane has One operator with a backup for 100s of people at a time. Further, they are monitored at all times by air traffic controllers who dictate, speed, altitude, and other factors to keep the airplanes from intermingling. A wait at the airport runway to take off may make it seem different but traffic volume in the sky comes no where near close to that of the roads. Your argument doesn't wash. In other words, it's Bullshit.
This, I completely agree with but it has nothing to do with traveling speed or the original point of this thread, speed traps (or to make some others happy, speed enforcement zones).
For you. Since I don't know you, I don't trust you, regardless of how safe you think you are. | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 430 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
speed can be a mitigating factor in the severity of accidents.... ...only when first good judgement is thrown out the window. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1638 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.126.89 |
And might that occur paulj when one decides to speed? (throwing good judgment away) | ||
Andysrc Member Username: Andysrc Post Number: 89 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.14.24.48 |
If the speed limit is too low, why not do something about it? Try to get the speed limit changed. Don't just ignore the law then bitch when you get caught. If you're not actively trying to change the law, then it's hard to be sympathetic towards you when you get caught breaking it and complain. If it's that important to you, do something about it. If it's not that important to you, quit whining. | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1007 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.23 |
Actually, you've proven my point. It's speed combined with many other factors that cause deaths. I'm glad that you and others are able to see this distinction and step beyond the slogans. | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 431 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
I am just making the argument that legal does not always equal safe, and illegal does not necessarily mean unsafe. If speed is so unsafe then how has the autobahn operated for so long? I am of the opinion that speed is unfairly singled out as the major enforcement fatcor because anyone can point a radar gun & go 'hmmm, that number is pretty big'. I think that road ragers, lane 'sharks' that try to trap you by cutting around you at the last second, tailgaters, and red light runners are all much more dangerous than cars travelling at 80 MPH, but they are difficult to prove in court and therefore take a back-seat to radar guns. In Germany, people are not even eligible to get a DL until they are 18. The testing of the driver, as well as the vehicle, is extensive and frequent. The roads are engineered and built in a way to handle high speeds. I'm not saying I think everyone in the US should be allowed to go 100MPH everywhere, but 55 on the Davison is obviously a ridiculously low speed for the way that the highway is engineered. Ditto the Lodge, both freeways are sunken and traffic poses no threat to pedestrians or buildings. I personally am in favor of a graduated system that would allow experienced drivers to take testing, have vehicles inspected, and pay a fee to be allowed to move faster. Vehicle weight should also be a consideration, and passing lane/driving lane enforcement should be moved to a high priority. Since this is basically a pipe-dream knowing that the traffic enforcement is such a revenue-generator, I'm content and unremorseful to turn on my radar detector and fly across the desert on my motorcycle at 120+. It's all about a proper time, a proper place, and proper conditions including weather, surface, and line-of-sight. the idea of someone 'speeding' is only based on someone elses idea of a proper speed limit. The speed limits are made for the lowest common denominator of both vehicle (i.e. tractor trailer) and driver (commuter-only types who dont care to advance their skill and control). I am much more in control of a 1000cc sport biek at 120 MPH when I have dual front disc brakes than someone else at the helm of a hummer at 95. The stopping distances and potential of damage to other people & property is night & day. Beyond that, the majority of my very-high-speed rides have been in the western US, where the line of sight and population density is like nothing that we have here in Michigan. If you've never driven across places liek Nevada or Wyoming it's hard to understand but this pic might give you an idea: Nevada I respect your opinion CL but don't & won't 'feel bad' for speeding when it's safe. I understand teh game and have & will pay to play. I dont feel its a wrongdoing in the scheme of things. (Message edited by paulj on July 08, 2006) | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 432 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
and andy: who's whining? | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1009 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.255.239.23 |
Unfortunately, we may have gone too far down the path of catering to the lowest common denominator by the way we've planned (or failed to plan) the development of our infrastructure that I don't ever see a time when things will change. Look at all the stupid things we've done. Allowing semis with heavy and/or hazardous loads to travel long distances on the freeways, for example. Putting those loads back on the rails or ships where it belongs would go a long way toward increasing highway safety. Of course, it's obvious why this practice became common - it's cheaper for the transporters of goods to spread out the cost of infrastructure (in dollars for road construction and maintenance, in highway deaths, air pollution, etc.) among all of us than to bear the true costs themselves. Does anyone really believe it's safe to have heavy trucks that cannot stop, accelerate or otherwise maneuver well to share the road with passenger cars? What about vehicles that are substantially taller than others on the road that block the view of those around them? And look at our driving habits. Cars bunched together all over the place with no one leaving a safe distance around them. People driving in the blindspots of others, slamming on the brakes when they're about to miss an exit (or even backing up on the shoulder when they actually do miss it), failing to accelerate to a safe merging speed, and on and on. As Paulj points out, there is little to no enforcement of any of these unsafe behaviors. And you can tell some people are just not comfortable driving at freeway speeds. Some are constantly hitting their brakes for no apparent reason. Others slow down far in advance of their exit. And what's the deal with those folks in the right lane with the hazard lights on going 35mph? Again, these are all unsafe behaviors. If I were a cop, I'd like to think I'd put the radar gun away and write tickets for infractions that truly create unsafe conditions. If someone is going 90mph and the conditions are not safe for it, it will be obvious to anyone with common sense, with or without a radar gun. | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 433 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.255.167.177 |
while I agree with you whole heartedly, DRM, the reason the cops fall back on radar guns is if they write people up for the reasons you & I both cite, they'll spend their next 3 lives in the 36th district court and likely be written up & fired for their 'poor performance' in etraffic enforcement. I'm totally in agreement with the philosophy, but it's hard to screw people for money over subjective traffic mistakes & violations. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1639 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.126.94 |
The way I see it is that those folks speeding even on the highway are the same people by and large that are tailgating slamming on their brakes and doing all the other shit that irks the rest of us. I am not saying that paulj and DRM exceed the speed limit therefor they must also be the ones doing the other shit but I suspect the majority opf speeders also disregard other traffic rules. As for graduated licensing way to cumbersome and costly probably.My thought is to try and be the best driver I can and to constantly remind my friends, family and offspring about the shitbird drivers that gum up our roads. | ||
Wabashrr1 Member Username: Wabashrr1 Post Number: 185 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 172.165.186.200 |
If THAT was what you were saying to begin with, then I agree. Drive safely. |
