  Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 612 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
I would just like to notice that when I started the thread entitled "Jews in Detroit" back on “Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 2:54 pm:” it caught on right away and is still going over three (3) months later. On the other hand I started the thread entitled “Black Bottom” and it has gone no where! In a non-scientific personal survey I would say that the current state of affairs is that blacks make up the majority of the population of Detroit and Jews represent the minority population in Detroit today. So, what does this lack of interest in the history of the black majority population on a website devoted to Detroit say about the interest in and of the only major metropolitan black majority city in the U.S.? I don’t know what this means but it does mean something. What do you think it means?  Livedog2 | ||
Ed_golick Member Username: Ed_golick Post Number: 300 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.55.51 |
Forumers are on vacation, away from their computers??? | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1990 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Personally I think Black Bottom would win by submission. Now a cage match I'm not sure who would win. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6287 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
The Jews are scrappy. I wouldn't be so quick to discount them. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 735 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.69 |
Also, I think there are threads buried in the archives (some not very old) that go into great detail about Black Bottom/Paradise Valley. It's not really fair to the newer posters, but a subject near and to their hearts may have been covered just a few months before they joined. | ||
Ha_asfan Member Username: Ha_asfan Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 69.14.17.198 |
An observation and a curiosity to me: why is there such a low level of Black involvement in the Detroit cultural scene ? When The Music Hall has a Black performance, it is typically very well attended by Blacks but the opera, the symphony, the museums remain very very very white. Why ? Also, as a kid I remember my parents and their friends discussing the destruction of Paradise Valley and what a shame it was. I was told "their [Blacks] neighborhoods are being destroyed and they won't have a place to call home....". Growing up in a good liberal Jewish home did teach me to be "scrappy" and standup for those who need help. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6290 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
At the time, the destruction of Paradise Valley was considered progressive. The housing stock in Paradise Valley was substandard, much of it lacking even basic plumbing. And even if it were a bad idea, black people didn't have the political clout in 1950s Detroit to block it. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 293 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
Jjaba didn’t grow up there? =) He and a few others have done an excellent job keeping the "Jews in Detroit" thread both interesting and alive. I'm sure some one could do the same thing for your other thread if they were willing to share their experiences. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4075 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.171.136.201 |
Johnnny5 tells it like it tis. Thanks for the props. jjaba will say it again. Detroit is Little Warsaw. Detroit is Little Italy. Detroit is Little Tel Aviv. Detroit is Bronzeville. Detroit is Little Budapest. Detroit is Little Beirut. Detroit is Chinatown. Our daily doses of Detroit in person or on the Forum, is loaded with an entire city and blacks are a daily part of it. (You want black threads, dial up Garyyes.com, Newarkyes. com, Oaklandyes.com, or Camdenyes. com.) Livedog2 is commended for his Jewish thread. jjaba has started many threads and most die rather quickly. jjaba appreciates your kind words about his work on this website. His memories are all over the synagogue tour also, a modest tribute to Lowell's research. jjaba, Westside Bar Mitzvah bukkor. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6292 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
"Bronzeville?" | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4077 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.171.136.201 |
Bronzeville is Inner Southside of Chicago. The term is used in other cities also. Does Itsjeff prefer Black Bottom, Little Harlem, or Schvartzaville better? jjaba's point is that Detroit is NOT just this thriving Black place. That's all. jjaba. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2647 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 128.36.14.165 |
bronzeville = third rate gold coast | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4078 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.171.136.201 |
Perhaps Rustic can give The Froum the boundaries of Bronzeville, Chicago, and ein bissella history of it. Is that where Bad Bad Leroy Brown lives? jjaba. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 968 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Thriving would be overstating it a bit but, 87% is pretty damn Black... | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2648 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 128.36.14.165 |
jjaba, naw I don't personally know much about Chicago other than to make an occasional quip about it. I've got kin there, but they are in the suburbs and some of the playground neighborhoods on the Northside. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 614 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Has anyone ever heard of the Detroit Police Officer "Black Bart" in relation to "Black Bottom"? Livedog2 | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1992 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Here is a link about "Black Bart" enjoy. http://www.sptddog.com/sotp/bb po8.html | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 67 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 63.102.87.27 |
Generally speaking, blacks don't have access to the internet. Jews do. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1993 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Thank you Spacemonkey it has been awhile since I posted something in the Stupid DetroitYES post du jour thread. | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 641 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Check out An American Odyssey by Robert Conant, Before Motown: A History Of Jazz In Detroit, 1920 - 1960 by Lars Bjorn with Jim Gallert, Detroit's Paradise Valley by Ernest H. Borden. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2654 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 128.36.14.165 |
Merchantgander, don't waste your time ... since that website became a gated community it has gone to shit. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 615 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Although your link was an interesting read, Merchantgander that's not the same "Black Bart" associated with "Black Bottom" of Detroit fame or is it infamy? Rule #1, Spacemonkey don’t even consider a disparaging remarks about blacks err, I mean African-Americans on this site, even if it is true. Strike that make that even if it MIGHT be true! Thank you, Jimg for the simple and intelligent answer to the questions surrounding “Black Bottom” and it's history. Livedog2 | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 73 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 63.102.87.27 |
Merchantgander, what do you mean? I don't understand your remarks. I was not trying to be racist or semtic or anything, just pointing out what might, perhaps, be a reality. Generally speaking, blacks (African American?? Give me a break, or dare call me an Irish/English/Welsh/Scottish/G erman/French Canadian/Hungarian/Yugoslavian /American Indian/SonOfABitch. Because that's what I am. It's all about semantics, no?) blacks (my dad still calls 'em coloreds, the silly goose) in this town 'probably' and most likely don't have as much access to (or interest in) the internet as Jews do; just because Detroiit isn't really wired as well as da burbs. And before you call me anti-semtic, know this: my wife and son are Jewish. And before you call me racist: I lived at Cass and Bagley in the Ramada Hotel in Detroit for 3.5 years and while I had a level of internet access, I was also mugged one time there: by three white guys. Right out in front of the hotel. They were just out of the military, said they needed money, and they jacked me. However, now that I think of it, I was also shot at three times by your so-called 'African Americans'; one time right in the hand on Eight Mile; thank you very much. That time I was just sitting at a restaurant at Eight and Livernois at a Top Hat Restaurant and the Young Boys Inc. decided to shoot the place up. Busted my hand, and all I wanted was a burger. So, I digress ... I'm just saying ... the internet ... yay ... we all have access I guess, buit who uses it more than others? I don't really know or care. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4079 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.171.136.201 |
Although Jewish, jjaba tries not to speak for all Jews. That's what's bothersome here. Spacemonkey has a right to his beliefs and ofcourse, when you get out there on a limb, you might take some heat. jjaba. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4508 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
The first early black community in Detroit was in Black Bottom in the 1840s before the Jews came. They first community was from Larned St. to Hastings St. and then up to Paradise Valley. Black Detroiters follow the ethnic Jews all the way to the West Side, the NW side of Detroit Oak Park, Southfield, Lathrup Village, Farmington Hills and West Bloomfield. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 616 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Can Danny say that Jjaba? Livedog2 | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4084 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.171.136.201 |
Jews in Detroit move every generation, 25 years. They sell out quickly and rebuild elsewhere. When that signal is given, they'll sell to the first ones to bid. Black folks have followed the Hungarians, the Polish, the Kashubs, the Italians, the Belgians, the Scots, the Irish, the Germans out of Detroit. Also, Jews, Presbyterians, Catholics, and an occasional Lutheran. That's the damn truth of the matter. jjaba Westside Bar Mitzvah Bukkor. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1177 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.130.18.100 |
"Jews in Detroit" is a broader and much more general discussion than "Black Bottom" which was a single neighborhood that no longer exists. Why don't you try a "Blacks in Detroit" thread or a "Whites in Detroit" thread for a better comparison & see if they can go anywhere without a war breaking out? | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 624 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
That's too dangerous these days, Lilpup considering the state of affairs on these discussions. I’m sure the accusations of racism, code talking, extremism on the right and left and all other forms of coercion, pc and peer pressure would make it a wasted exercise. Livedog2 | ||
Leoqueen Member Username: Leoqueen Post Number: 1382 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I'd be curious to know just how many black posters to this forum are, and if they have first-hand experience with Black Bottom and Paradise Valley. My only experience with said neighborhoods is listening to stories my Dad used to tell about it; he's been gone since 1987. I dont think there is any conspiracy to hide the history because the thread couldnt be sustained, and I dont think there is a lack of interest, at least not from my point of view.....I am fascinated by the history as I live in the renovated area that was once this thriving community. I am African American and didnt post because I have no direct knowledge of the area. | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3724 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.74.31.233 |
What there is .... is a lack of information on YOUR part!! roflmbao .... because nobody's telling ya either .... Black-atcha .... | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 294 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
Livedog are you purposely trying to get people here to argue about race? I may just be missing something, but on this and a few other threads you really seem to baiting arguements for no reason. My apologies if I'm reading into your posts incorrectly. (Message edited by Johnnny5 on July 08, 2006) | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 635 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
I can't get you or anybody to do anything about anything. If you are doing or saying something about something its because its in you. I'm not that powerful primo. And, if you think I am then maybe you need to figure out how to take your power back. Projections are hell, Johnnny5. It's the thing that almost wiped out the Jews in Europe because the Germans tried to make all their problems about the Jews. When people start pointing the fingers is when it gets dangerous. Remember when you point one finger at me you've got four pointing at yourself, homey. Livedog2 | ||
K_solomon Member Username: K_solomon Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 199.178.223.4 |
I been lurking for quite some time, but it sure seems that way. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 662 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
I think you are both right about things always boiling down to questions of race when it comes to the city of Detroit and now that I think of it in the United States, period. Now, in so far as me inciting people to argue about race I think you've got me mixed-up with a few other people on these discussion threads. I don’t make anybody do or say anything. If you don’t like what I write then when you see “Livedog2” don’t read it. And, furthermore what I write is for myself and if anyone else gets something out of it it’s through their own filters not mine. I categorically reject your assertions. Do-gooders are always looking to blame someone else for something instead of looking at their own issues! Livedog2  | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 296 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
I often enjoy reading your posts and would not consider ignoring them (Although I do reserve that option for a few others here =)). Perhaps I was just interpreting your posts differently than you had intended. Actually after rereading my post above it now seems almost insulting, which is not how I meant to come across. My apologies. John. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4533 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.84.91 |
Jjaba, Black folks in Detroit followed the Jews first and then they followed the Hungarians, the Polish, the Kashubs, the Italians, the Belgians, the Scots, the Irish, the Germans out of Detroit. Also, Jews, Presbyterians, Catholics, and an occasional Lutheran. What they move Detroit or suburbs black-folks follow, too. If some folks have a problem dealing the growing black communities in Detroit and suburbs just face them and live in diverse harmony. Words and actions of Xenophobia, Segregation, Demarcation and hate would only make the black-folks strong. It would not make them go away. Most African-America communities in Detroit and suburbs rather expand and make a exodus. Even through their communities are a ghetto or not. White-folks and any ethnic folks just to adapt to the constant ethnic change. Moving to middle of nowheresville will not solve the black problem. They just have to diversify. Most white communties in Detroit and Suburbs will not be pretty white forever. | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 18 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 68.60.182.26 |
Typical American attitude...thinks everything is black and/or white. Most of America is white. The black population is a small number. the Hispanic population is on the rise, greater than the black population. So I think the burbs will not be white or black forever. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4629 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
That's right Mani, The ethnic Hispanics are quickly growing faster in the U.S. than any other country in the world. The 2004 U.S. Census reports that the U.S. Hispanic population has officially surpass the black population by 2% raising its number to 14% making it the #1 minority race in America. By 2010 the Hispanic population will increase to 20% and up to 50% by 2050. Much of it is due to an influx of Mexican and Hispanic immigrants comming from their own poverty stricken homeland, comming to America not just for freedom but to look for work. President BENDAR Bush wants to close the "GOLDEN DOOR" on the illegal Mexican and Hispanic immigrants by installing National Guard Troops along the U.S./Mexico border and patrolling the Carribean Sea. The Minutemen has order a shoot to kill any Mexican and Hispanic immigrants who resist arrest. But the Illegal Mexican and Hispanic immigrants will keep on comming until their own homeland becomes free like the U.S. in which that would never happen in next 100 to 500 years. |
