  Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 847 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 136.2.1.153 |
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060707/NEWS99/ 60707010 That's why you hippies need to get a car! (Message edited by sharmaal on July 07, 2006) | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1984 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
Yes, And you need to get your fat ass out of your car and get some execise. Otherwise you'll die of a heart attack long before I get run over by a bus. (Message edited by ndavies on July 07, 2006) | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1161 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.17 |
sounds like he may have been a commuter given the time of day  always look over those shoulders when cutting across a lane, and those buses with their rear mounted engines can sneak up ya with nothing more than a whisper sometimes | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 322 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56 |
this isn't the first time this has happened. Fuck those city buses I hate them. | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 323 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56 |
I'd be willing to bet the bus drivers version of the incident is a bunch of bullshit as well. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1985 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
Let's see. According to the CDC 30% of michiganders died of Heart attacks in 2003. 3.8% died from accidental causes. I'm sure very few of those accidental causes were getting run over by a bus. I'll definitely take my chances with the bus rather than a heart attack. | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 325 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56 |
it'd be better to look at how many people who get hit by buses die, rather than just "accidental causes", dontcha think? | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 311 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.250.214.33 |
Not to sound mean... but sometimes bikers piss me off! While I fully support their rights, I've seen way to many bikers act recklessly. I've been cut of by bikes (the 10-speed versions) while I'm moving and have the right of way (The bike came from behind my right rear side, crossed 3 feet in front of my bumper to run a red light). I've seen bikes run red lights, on the freeway and most of all ride two across on a two-lane road while refusing to enter the dedicated bike lane. I feel sorry for this biker and given the driving habits of DDOT Bus Drivers we really don't know how this happened, but remember to be extra carfull. Automobile drivers aren't the only idiots on the road. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1986 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
That statistic wasn't available. I assumed getting hit by a bus fell under accidental deaths. | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 336 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.212.45.228 |
Another real issue here is the lack of bicycle lanes in the downtown area. Riding in the city is like an obstacle course as it is. Streets intersecting at odd angles, bad traffic lights, and many busses make riding quite scary at times. | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 326 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56 |
no we don't, and we never will. I'm just speaking from experience. | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 327 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 69.209.138.56 |
Ndavies...I survived! | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1987 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
Why do you need bicycle lanes. A bike has just as much right to the lane as a car does. It is just another vehicle. It's the car drivers who are impatient and don't understand the rules. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 630 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 209.69.221.253 |
I agree with Ndavies. Anyway, I almost got clobbered by a city bus just the other day, and I was pretty far to the right. They seem to get a kick out of cutting it as close as they can. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 969 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
I like the bicycle lane that lasts a block on Atwater. Real waste of paint. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 848 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 136.2.1.153 |
Agreed. I have no problem biking in the normal lanes. Besides, if they put in bike lanes, people would probably just park in them! I think Bike lanes are nice where there is lots of pedestrian / jogger traffic. | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 313 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.250.214.33 |
Ndavies, when a bike can do the posted speed limit (35-40 MPH) then it will be fully deserving of having its own lane space, but when a bicyclist doing 15 MPH ties-up traffic, then perhaps they should get to the side. I should NEVER see a bike on the freeway, even on the shoulder. Freeways were only designed for motorized traffic. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1988 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
According to Michigan law it is a vehicle and has just as much right to the to the surface streets as a car. Bicycles and anything with an engine less than 250CC are specifically banned from freeways. Bicycles should never be on a freeway, but on the surface streets they are prefectly legal and expected to follow all traffic laws. | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 314 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.250.214.33 |
So Ndavies, if bikes were to take ALL of the lanes on 8-mile, causing traffic to slow to 10-15MPH from the posted speed of 40-45MPH, you'd be perfectly fine with the resulting traffic nightmere? I'm not arguing that bicyclists don't have the right, I'm just saying that this right must be balanced against the laws of physics and common sense. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 332 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
I laugh at bikers who run stop signs, red lights, change direction without hand signals, etc etc...but then hide behind "the rules of the road" when it comes to these stories. If you want to be treated the same as a car, then stop when the cars do. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1989 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
Cmon, give me a break. I didn't write the rules, I'm just telling what they are. You'd never get that many bicycles on 8 mile unless it was a special event. De tour Detroit stops traffic every year. They get a police escort and screw up traffic along the entire route. They even block the roads and travel through red lights. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
Is it just me or does everyone else see a bunch of kids and young adults driving mini-bikes around on side streets not wearing helmets? I know this is slightly off topic, but most of these folks are driving like idionts, blowing through stop signs screaching their brakes. I'm just glad they have the sense to stay off the main streets, but why the heck don't they have a helmet? and what sort of thrill is it to drive up and down the same street without a particular destination? | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 167 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
Be careful out there. In a potential conflict between a cyclist and a bus, the bus is most likely to come out the winner. The_nerd, I partially agree with you. Cyclists do need to obey the law. However, it is still up to the bus driver (and other motorists) to drive safely, too. Oh, and Detroitplanner, there was a horrible scooter accident in Royal Oak a few weeks ago. A guy was nearly decapitated by Kimball HS. http://www.hometownlife.com/ap ps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060 616/NEWS/606150855/1024/NEWS07 | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1384 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
Don't you mean Royal Oak High School? I caught that story too. I live pretty close to there, and last year when the city replaced the sidewalks in our neighborhood they didn't replace the square by that wire. I figured they were waiting to put in the new sidewalk until after they moved the wire. A couple months ago I noticed the walk was filled in (I don't remember it being blacktop but apparently it was) but the wire still stretched across the walk. It took an accident like that to get them to move the wire. All of twenty minutes to fix, buh-mmer. | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1068 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.49.95.12 |
this isn't the first time this has happened. Fuck those city buses I hate them. I'd be willing to bet the bus drivers version of the incident is a bunch of bullshit as well. Wow, you're quite the bitch aren't you, Funkycarrie? | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 74 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.217.174.222 |
My question is, was this one of the DDOT drivers who gets away without being qualified to drive a bus or even have a valid drivers license? Eh, probably not. My only close-encounter with a DDOT bus was in 2004 when I first moved here. I was crossing Woodward from Merchants Row when a bus came roaring (had to be 35-40 mph) and nearly creamed me. I was so pissed, I f*ed and whipped my carrots at it (lol). I even called DDOT to complain, but unfortunately didn't get the bus ID number. The operator on the other end didn't seem to give a flying shit either. Speaking of taking up all the lanes on 8 Mile, check out this video experiment on an Atlanta freeway: http://video.google.com/videop lay?docid=-5366552067462745475 &q=speed+limit | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4510 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
All D-DOT city buses are required to follow rules, safety guidelines and routes Some of them don't even follow these rules and may ended up into a conflict that would be monitored and recorded through the global presitional system. Eventually its the bicyclist fault for not riding in the sidewalk. If the bicyclist wore a helmut it could have survived the crash. | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 328 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
Matt, you're quite the shmuck aren't you? I was T-boned by a city bus that blew a red light, while parking my car 2 years ago. I'm lucky to be alive, since he was flying along 15 mph over the speed limit. The bus driver made up some story about me making an illegal left turn (which is impossible because I was backing out of a parking spot). Its not the first time that a city bus has plowed and killed someone on a bike, its a well known fact that their driving records aren't exactly squeaky clean. | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 329 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.249.241.80 |
something tells me that a helmet wouldn't have helped this guy... " The bus hit the bicycle that became lodged under bus." | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1795 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
In this case the law is that you must stay to the right except to pass or turn left. So... Under a freak even when about 10 bikes were simulaintiously passing one another that might be OK. But that would only take a couple of seconds, so there really would be no delay. Now if they kept taking turns passing one another, then I think they could be considered to be actively attempting to block traffic, which is already illegal. Now if there was thousands of bikes riding down 8 mile, then I think that would be great. It would be a lot more efficient. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 83 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
In a car I almost get creamed by buses when they want to pull back out into traffic after picking up riders. They just pull out, even if there are folk on their left....and changing lanes, they just do it....they can't possibly look! That biker didn't have a chance.....I say ride on the sidewalk and avoid even the slightest chance of being creamed by a bus and by the driver who probably isn't licensed. | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 938 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.255.247.10 |
Memo to 'y-t'__ this is not the sticks!__ WATCH OUT FO' BUSES!!!!! super d(motordetroit) | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 84 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
and what sense was the Y-T comment?? What in the hell does this possibly have to do with race? And...BTW.....I have driven Detroit ALL MY DRIVING LIFE! So knock off the racial bullshit comments ya moron. | ||
Ypsirocks Member Username: Ypsirocks Post Number: 24 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 68.121.100.58 |
The last person who yelled out their window that I should ride on the sidewalk nearly got my ulock through their windshield. I've also been hit by a car while at a dead stop in a crosswalk waiting for a light to change. I don't think I'm being careless when I ride, but I do try and make my presence as large as possible. I don't pass on the right side at intersections and position myself so that every car can plainly see me. Think about it, I'm on a bike, if you almost hit me by throwing your door open or being impatient in your 2000 pound car, I'll be fucking pissed and I'll surely let you know about it. Honestly, this is one of the biggest stopping points in our moving from the bay area back to michigan. I love only needing one car and love that there bike lanes EVERYWHERE. That being said, the wife and I looked at a house in woodbridge last week and almost didn't come home. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 85 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Ypsi.....wasn't saying all bikers should be on the sidewalk.....there should be no need.....I was simply saying that it sure seems safer....given the history of poor driving records of many city bus drivers and some of the confusing intersections downtown (not to mention construction everywhere). | ||
Ypsirocks Member Username: Ypsirocks Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 68.122.41.197 |
yikes, apologies detroitteacher, missed your post regarding sidewalks. AC Transit drivers in Oakland aren't much better. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 86 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Ypsi....tis ok...just don't want Ulock upside my head....LOL | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 170 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 24.247.163.145 |
It's amazing how divided this discussion is. There are safe bike riders out there, and ones that are out of control. I don't think this was necessarily a cyclist that was out of control, but one that just wasn't paying much attention at the time. As for the bus driver, it's hard to decide if he was in the wrong or not. Buses are difficult vehicles to drive as they hard to maneuver and stop quickly. Then again, maybe the driver could have sounded the horn to warn the cyclist. I don't see why people are quick to blame one group or the other, when we don't know all the facts. Of course, I should have known better, it's pretty much the norm for people to point fingers here. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 244 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.248.72.109 |
I would like to make a couple of points as a bike rider (doing about 50 miles a week) AND a driver in Detroit (20 miles a week). As a bike rider: 1. Unpredictable and inconsistent uses of the right lane for parking and driving make bicycling very dangerous. Ditto for right-lane road condition, which is usually pretty poor. 2. Hand signals don't improve safety much because drivers don't know what they are. 3. There is no really safe way to make a left turn on a bike, or more precisely, to get into a left turn lane where the speed limit is above 25. 4. The city’s failure to enforce drunk driving/open container laws results in a lot of glass on the road. Think about it – beer and liquor are just about the only things that come in glass bottles. 5. City buses are very carelessly driven. As a driver: 1. Cyclists tend, through a combination of advocacy and wishful thinking, to exaggerate the legal stature of a bike versus a motorcycle or a car. Look up the Michigan Motor Vehicle Act. Motorcycles are the only things other than cars and trucks that have a right to their own lanes. There are restrictions on bicycles but no privileges whatsoever. 2. Cyclists need to be a lot more self-aware when it comes riding along with high-speed traffic. If you get hit by a 3,500 lb car going 35 mph faster than you, there’s an excellent chance you’ll end up dead before you even hit the ground. It’s established that a 35mph collision between two 3,500 lb cars is often fatal; imagine what happens when one player is a 200 lb bike and rider. It’s just the physics of collisions, and it is always a risk because in some instances, by the time a driver can see a bicycle, it is too late to stop safely. 3. Even if bikes had every legal right that cars have, I would not think there was parity in the “rules of the road.” Most places don’t enforce rules against bikes. You don’t get points on your license for mishandling bikes. You don’t end up in a place like 36th District Court. And your insurance doesn’t go up. 4. Still on parity, the limit of the average bike rider’s ability (15-20mph in sustained riding) often adds up to what would be a moving violation for a car. Take the example (which I saw the other day) of a Greg LeMond wannabe riding his carbon fiber wonder up Woodward north of 696 – at 15 mph, max. If that were a car, he would have been ticketed for obstructing traffic. As a practical matter, he was obstructing traffic turning off the service drive onto Woodward. I don't think it's really that practical to combine bike traffic with high-speed car traffic, since those two uses are not well-matched in term of speed, mass, etc. What I would suggest instead is narrowing the car portions of bigger streets to provide dedicated (if not curbed off) bike lanes that are actually ridable. Another thing to consider is curtailing street parking on major roads on weekends (c.f. Jefferson) to avoid the block-to-block right lane problem. | ||
Hugo8100 Member Username: Hugo8100 Post Number: 2 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 146.9.204.13 |
My advice to commuters is to plan your route. The only time I really ride the major streets is when I need to cross a freeway overpass. Ride to the right as far as you can but do not put yourself in danger. As someone said earlier, the condition of the rightmost side of the road in this city is not always conducive to bike riding (I've found that heavy duty touring tires cut down on the flats). Memorize where the potholes are on your route so you aren't swerving into traffic at the last moment. Also, stay off the sidewalks unless you ride below 10mph, it's dangerous to pedestrians, especially as they enter/exit buildings. Sidewalk riding is dangerous at intersections because cars rarely check the sidewalk when turning right on a red or left on green. They also tend not to check sidewalks when entering/exiting driveways or parking lots. Moreover, everyone needs to just have some patience and have some respect for their fellow traveler. There are idiot drivers and there are idiot bicyclists (like the guy riding the wrong way down Second on a rusty Huffy I saw yesterday). Until we have unobstructed and well planned bikelanes we all have to share the roads. Just pay attention to your surroundings and we can avoid incidents like these. All that being said, the only thing I fear on my bike rides is the city buses. I have had by far more close encounters with them than with other vehicle. (minus the nice bus driver who gave me lots of room on Mack at Gratiot the other week, thanks) Stay safe everybody. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 983 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
We need more bike trails devoid of cars. I hate riding my bike around cars, especially in Detroit where once you cross into the city limit, even safe drivers start driving badly. | ||
Aarne_frobom Member Username: Aarne_frobom Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 162.108.2.222 |
Cyclists should know that Michigan law regarding lane use by bikes is about to change. Senate Bill 1224 has been passed by both houses, and will probably be signed by Governor Granholm within a few days. The new law will preserve the requirement that bicycles keep to the right of the roadway when possible, but will make it expressly legal for bicycles to use as much of the lane as needed to avoid parked cars, other traffic, holes and debris, or other obstacles that make the right part of the road unusable. It will also be legal to use all of the lane when the lane is too narrow to permit a car to safely pass the bike. It will also allow bikes to keep to the left when preparing to turn left (although it won't make it any safer) and when proceeding straight through an intersection (to pass or get out of the way of right-turning cars). The new law also allows bikes to use sidewalks (except where locally prohibited) and to use the crosswalks associated with the sidewalks. This bill enlarges the rights of bicycles, over the somewhat-vague present language that confers on them the rights of a vehicle but limits them to the gutter. The new law can be seen at www.MichiganLegislature.org Enter 1224 under "bill number." | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 137 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
yeah, as hugo said, never ride on the side walk. I got hit hard by a car here in ann arbor while riding on the side walk. (huron and state... dead mans land) I was impressed with the city response, though. three cops and an ambulance within a couple minutes... anyway, sometimes my friends and i ride our bikes in the road as a form of advocacy (including but not limited to critical mass)... people need to get out of their cars and walk/ride their bikes/ride transit. in a2 my house mates and i live much less than a mile to campus... however half of my house drives EVERYWHERE.... what the hell is this? we need to stop driving, and start biking... we don't need cars we don't need gas to ride a round town in a critical mass | ||
Adamjab19 Member Username: Adamjab19 Post Number: 693 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 24.192.148.148 |
probally had some sort of entertainment in his ear as well.... | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 993 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
Wow... Not Detroit, but relevant to the convo.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new s/gossip/story/434634p-366199c .html | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1226 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.103 |
Thanks for the info on the bill, Aarne. Ypsirocks, some good news... there are plans in the works to add bike lanes in Detroit in the coming years. See: http://www.detroitmi.gov/pland evl/advplanning/green/ and https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/62684/69606.html . (Part of the "Greenways" project, although most of the paths on the maps are actually bike lanes on roads.) So, go ahead and put that deposit down on the Woodbridge house. ;) | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 117 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.14.26.135 |
FYI: the new bike law is going to take a little more time than a few days. It requires another vote in the Senate but we're hoping we can get that to happen to the summer sessions. For those who aren't comfortable making left turns on higher-speed roads, there are alternatives.  | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 83 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.136.140.132 |
Fishtoes, I was just going to suggest something like number 2 or 3. The only time I did #1 was when I rode around downtown A2. Even then I'm sure some people thought I was nuts. And as far as not having bike lanes, I sometimes think we don't need them. Look at the infrastructure (streets) of Detroit: they were overbuilt. How many times have you seen Woodward completely clogged between two points of distance; say I-75 and Warren? Or Grand River, or Gratiot, or Rosa Parks. The list goes on and on. That's not to say that the right hand lanes are actually kept up to snuff. Like a few have said before, construction, manhole covers, parked cars, Macadam that fades into brick, potholes, and so forth make riding in the right most lane dangerous even if there's two or three other lanes to choose from. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 119 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.14.26.135 |
Our bill passed the Senate yesterday and is on the way to the Governor.  | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1200 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
sweet. I employ methods 1-3 depending on trafffic conditions and the street layout |
