Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Granholm « Previous Next »
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Thecreator
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Username: Thecreator

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 160.39.252.37
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's got to be a thread tracking this somewhere already but I couldn't find it. The next in the governor's saga:

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060711/NEWS99/ 60711004

Granholm's had some questionable legislation but she's definitely working in Detroit's interest. Losing her is one large step backwards
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7even
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Username: 7even

Post Number: 82
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 198.109.26.19
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

first thejesus now thecreator

whats next!?
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let the mudslinging begin. This is going to be one interesting election in which every little thing each candidate for governor does the other is going to sling mud and try to expose fraud in the other.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 24
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 68.62.6.138
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Am I missing something?

How is a state petition to protest high gas prices classified as the use of government resources for a political purpose?

I mean, for it to be a political purpose, then there would have to be citizens who actually favor high gas prices, right? Does anyone here favor high gas prices? Does anyone here know anyone who does?
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Rberlin
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Username: Rberlin

Post Number: 573
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 75.7.197.102
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well you would expect politicians to be smart enough to understand that gas prices are market driven and that any petition to protest them isn't going to make any difference. Of course I do expect them to be smart enough to realize that most people don't realize this and they would be stupid not to take advantage of their ignorance. Anyway it's easier to blame big oil than to tell Americans the truth that they are responsible thanks to urban sprawl and his and hers Hummers.
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 29
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.209.158.217
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I mean, for it to be a political purpose, then there would have to be citizens who actually favor high gas prices, right? Does anyone here favor high gas prices? Does anyone here know anyone who does?"

You might be surprised.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1046
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The increase in MI sales tax revenues based upon higher crude costs was thoroughly covered before in DYES. Granholm has been repeatedly pressed to forgive this added sales tax (windfall profits to the State Treasury, in a manner of speaking), but she refuses to consider that.
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Funkycarrie
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Username: Funkycarrie

Post Number: 332
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 69.209.138.56
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I favor even higher gas prices so people go out and look at alternative fuels!
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 564
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 75.9.255.242
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Throw her out in the streets!

(Message edited by irish_mafia on July 12, 2006)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10308
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could somebody please post a detailed list of what exactly Granholm has accomplished that has helped Detroit?
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 86
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 216.111.89.3
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How long was Engler's list?? Has Dick Devos ever been to Detroit (Dearborn doesn't count).
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 565
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 75.9.255.242
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wilus1mj,

That was an interesting list.

I didn't realize her accomplishments were so extensive.

By the by, while Ms. G celebrates the potential Google deal....the rest of the country just got down to 4% unemployment....and somehere around 121,000 new jobs created...I believe that would put us at .8% of the rest of the country woo hoo!
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 443
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

How long was Engler's list??




Jesus, you guys with Engler, you are almost as bad as the Republicans who blame everything on Clinton. If John Engler set a kitten on fire, would that mean that it would be OK for Granholm to do it too?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"By the by, while Ms. G celebrates the potential Google deal....the rest of the country just got down to 4% unemployment....and somehere around 121,000 new jobs created...I believe that would put us at .8% of the rest of the country woo hoo!"


Well, it's not even that much. Those job stats are for the last reported MONTH, whereas those thousand Googlers will not be fully onboard for five YEARS.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 567
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 75.9.255.242
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard,

I was trying to be generous
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 128
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.141.144.2
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Irish Mafia:

In just the recent months, Granholm has helped detroit:

-She makes frequent visits (raising visibility / importance)
-has publicly stated that she believes detroit is a key in Michigan's future
-Made a STATE package offering to entice rock financial to move to detroit
-Flushed STATE money into the Book Cadillac Deal
-Is proposing STATE HEALTHCARE (which would bail out detroit and detroit auto makers)
-AND... last time I checked, she hadn't looked into bringing detroit into receivership...

this is just recent stuff... there is more, i'm sure... I guarantee DeVos is pro suburban/sprawl. Granholm isn't perfect... (she's no Kwame Kilpatrick..) but Devos sucks chucks of ass. (that kwame thing was a joke, btw)
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1054
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Granholm's fix it first program for roads is also a great anti-sprawl idea. Not perfect but much better than Engler's expand roads into suburbia plan.
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.209.178.224
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I favor even higher gas prices so people go out and look at alternative fuels!"

That and mass transit.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 130
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.141.144.2
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob - i've heard of fix it first before, but what are the details? i'd like to be better informed... I'm just curious how the program works! thanks!
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Brandonz
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Username: Brandonz

Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 198.108.4.105
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I support much higher fuel prices to help disincentivize sprawl, increase demand for living in dense, mixed-use communities, and increasing transit/nonmotorized transportation usage.

$5/gallon, anyone?

We'll be there in a few years anyway, with Peak Oil and all... I fear metro Detroit will be more ill-prepared than many places, however...
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 357
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would love to see $5/gallon gasoline (slowly, not all at once), but if it happens, I'm sure as fuck leaving Detroit...NYC here I come.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1055
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Granholm's fix-it first plan is simple, let's fix up our current road system before building new highways/adding more lanes. There have been select projects that have been given the green light, like the new M-59/Adams Rd interchange, new 696 Franklin Rd interchange, Beck Rd and I-96, and I-96 and Wixom Rd. Republicans have not been fans of this program because they say it is in the way of future development.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 134
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i say NO new roads... ever again... transit, man, transit.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen Andylinn!
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10310
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMAO at Andylinn!

So, making appearances, stating Detroit is the key, and not checking into receivership are notable accomplishments? Then the others you list, the Book Cadillac, Rock Financial, and the health care reform have not yet come to fruition. So, in four years, these are her only legit accomplishments from your list? Thank you, thank you very much for proving my point.

Nothing changes around here for Detroit. If Detroit wants something done, Detroit and DETROIT'S politicians are the one's that have to make it happen. Republicans or Democrats, it doesn't matter, nobody in Lansing wants to put forth any sort of serious effort in regards to Detroit.
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 108
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone remember that we have a Republican state legislature? Does anyone blame them? Does having a Republican President, Congress, Conservative Supreme Court, and Republican state legislature have any effect on the effectiveness of a Democratic governor? DeVos is a GW who has yet to be governor.

(Message edited by gmich99 on July 12, 2006)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10311
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, so now that we've heard the "It's George Bush's fault!" and related branches excuse many times over, perhaps you could explain why there are 48 other states in better shape than Michigan. I'm not even playing the part of the devils advocate here, I just want honest to God answers. What has Granholm actually did, not have in the works as her 4 years are coming to an end and is pulling the usual "I gotta rush some stuff through, it's an election year" accomplishments.

Let's see, our property taxes will hopefully get lowered...thanks to my Mayor and his efforts. My car insurance could possibly get lowered, thanks the the Mayor, Sharon McPhail, Churches, and a few other organizations. The major development deals are happening mostly because of the cities efforts, with nothing more than a smack on the ass near the finish line from Lansing, after they nearly pulled the rug out from under that one.

So honestly, I ask again, what has Granholm done for Detroit? Somebody out there HAS to have programs that they were involved in or proof that Granholm made a difference in one shape or form. That's all I'm asking for, not some bullshit finger pointing.
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 109
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lets understand that these 48 states aren't gaining equal jobs to the jobs the manufacturing sector is losing and our federal government, specifically the legislative and executive, which has the only power to sway any of the outsourcing and trade deficits that are killing the manufacturing industry are not taking action but actually promoting this trend. Ask Northeast Ohio how things are going, I'm sure they'll tell you just swell.
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 110
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan is losing out domestically to the cheap backwater Southern states with their absence of Unions (A.K.A. benefits and responsibility to the workers, lax enforcement of environmental law, conservative courts, cheap land, and cheap minimum wages. But more than those Southern states, Michigan is losing to Mexico, China, India and other cheap manufacturing countries.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10312
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So the Federal government tells states what industries they should focus on? In our case, industrial/manufacturing. Come on, the manufacturing industry has been shrinking for decades, this is hardly something new. So again, instead of placing blame, tell me what Granholm HAS done.
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 111
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In February 2005, Michigan's Republican-dominated Legislature refused to vote on Granholm's proposed state budget, citing concerns over cuts to state funding for higher education.[2] In the previous years of Granholm's term, many cuts to higher education had been demanded and voted in the Legislature in order to balance the state budget. The year before, Republican leaders had called Granholm a "do-nothing Governor", claiming that she failed to lead, while Democrats accused legislative Republicans of being obstructionist. In January 2005, Granholm presented an early budget proposal, demanded immediate response from the Legislature, and held a press conference outlining the highlights of the proposed budget. After refusing to consider, debate, or vote on the proposed budget, Republicans stated they would prefer that the Legislature have more involvement in the formation of the state budget*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J ennifer_Granholm

LANSING – Governor Jennifer M. Granholm today signed legislation that will protect the personal information of Michigan citizens. Public Act 246 of 2006 prohibits the unauthorized sale of confidential telephone records, including cell phones, without the customer’s permission.*

*http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0, 1607,7-168--146634--,00.html

The “Pure Michigan” tourism campaign is being funded with part of the $2 billion 21st Century Jobs Fund to dramatically increase the marketing of Michigan across the country. The campaign encourages people in other states to visit Michigan and share in the feelings and emotions brought on by the miles of shoreline, beautiful lakes and rivers, exciting sports and events, golf courses, and cultural attractions that inspire Michigan residents.*

*http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0, 1607,7-168--146601--,00.html

Since taking office, she has successfully resolved over $4 billion dollars in budget deficits, trimming more from state government than any governor in Michigan’s history

diversifying Michigan’s economy through an unprecedented $2 billion dollar Jobs for Michigan Fund. Granholm has also reduced the red tape businesses face when seeking permits from the state

focus on families has meant expanded health care coverage for 300,000 uninsured Michiganians through new federally-qualified health care centers in Jackson and Detroit. Granholm saved the state nearly $40 million in 2003 when she introduced the nation’s first bulk-buying pool for prescription drugs; and in 2004, she extended those savings to citizens by introducing the MiRx Card, which provides discount prescription drugs to uninsured families. Since 2003, Granholm has also enrolled nearly 50,000 additional children for health insurance through the Healthy Kids and MiCHILD programs.*

http://democraticgovernors.org /governors/395/governor-jennif er-granholm

In February 2000, she introduced Michigan's Mentoring Initiative, a program aimed at linking children who have had a light touch with the justice system with a stable adult mentor who can steer them away from the courthouse doors. She has also teamed with the State Bar of Michigan to introduce "Peace on the Playground," a peer mentoring program designed to help elementary school children solve their conflicts before they escalate into violence.

She introduced Michigan's first State-level High Tech Crime Unit to explore, investigate, and prosecute Internet and high tech crimes. Her office brought the nation's first criminal charges against an on-line company selling GHB, the date rape drug, via the Internet and was the first law enforcement official to use racketeering charges to successfully shut down a for-profit child pornography website.
Granholm led a multi-agency effort to ensure that Michigan laws can effectively be used to fight terrorism at the State level. She took legal action against 46 gas stations statewide accused of price gouging following the September attacks, forcing the stations to pay consumer refunds and civil fines.*

*http://www.cglg.org/governors/ MI/index.asp

07/07/2006 Granholm Says Alternative Energy Development Critical to Diversifying Economy
Unknown

07/06/2006 Granholm Signs New Laws to Protect Michigan's Children from Exposure to Drugs
Lansing, MI

07/05/2006 Granholm Calls on President Bush to Meet with Domestic Automotive Leaders
Lansing, MI
07/05/2006 Letter to the President

07/05/2006 Granholm Signs Law Making Environmental Protections, Alternative Energy Production More Affordable
Lansing, MI

06/30/2006 Granholm Signs Legislation to Provide Additional Consumer Protections
Lansing, MI

06/30/2006 Budget Agreement Invests in Education, Protects Social Safety Net and Increases Public Safety
Lansing, MI

06/30/2006 Granholm: Investment in Tourism is Investment in Economy

06/28/2006 Governor Granholm Committed to Protecting Michigan's Water Resources
Lansing, MI

06/23/2006 Granholm Says Michigan has Strategy to Help Businesses Grow, Succeed
Unknown

06/22/2006 Governor Granholm Touts Legislation to Allow Communities to Invest in Mass Transit
Lansing, MI

06/22/2006 Granholm Supports National Goal of 25 x 25: Increasing Renewable Energy to 25 Percent by 2025
Lansing, MI

06/20/2006 Granholm Unveils Plan to Help Small Business Employees, Self-Employed Save for Retirement
Lansing, MI

06/20/2006 Detroit Free Press - 227 Fugitives Nabbed in Statewide Sweep
Detroit, MI
0
6/20/2006 The Detroit News - Guard's Return Mixes Joy, Sorrow
University Center, MI

06/19/2006 Granholm Special Message to Lawmakers: Approve New Merit Award Scholarship Now
Lansing, MI
0
6/16/2006 Granholm to Send Special Message to Legislature to Act on New Merit Award Scholarship
Unknown

06/13/2006 Granholm Fighting for Fair Trade Policies to Protect Michigan Jobs
Lansing, MI

06/13/2006 Granholm: Company Expansions and Community Redevelopments to Create and Retain 669 Jobs

06/12/2006 Governor Encourages Michigan Residents to Observe Flag Day, Flag Month in Michigan
Lansing, MI

06/09/2006 Granholm Message to Lawmakers: Don't Jeopardize Job Creation in Michigan
Lansing, MI

06/09/2006 Granholm Fighting for Fair Trade Policies to Protect Michigan Jobs
Unknown

06/08/2006 Granholm Makes Case for Jobs at Battle Creek Air National Guard Base
Lansing, MI

06/06/2006 Governor Granholm, Representative Angerer Announce New Legislation to Help Parents
Lansing, MI

06/05/2006 Governor Granholm Asks Trust Fund Board to Recognize Private Support for Natural Resources

Etc Etc
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10313
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heh, not much there in terms of bringing jobs to Michigan eh? What have we got in 4 years, 1,000 Google jobs?
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 112
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no argument here about the job loss. Politics aside, a long-term trend in manufacturing industry declines in the US combined with 9/11, Iraq, fuel prices, and many other factors have contributed toward making a bad situation worse. The Big 3 being located in Michigan, the hit has been hardest at home. What I think we have is a near lame-duck governor and a don't tax and spend governor candidate who will benefit Grand Rapids and the Grand Rapids area, but will hurt Southeast Michigan with the usual Republican cuts, i.e health care, schools, social welfare programs, etc. In this case I think the consequence of a lame-duck governor is less damage to Detroit while a unified Republican state government would mean cuts in programs that hurt Detroit the most.

PS

You asked what Granhomlm has done, I hope that gets you started.
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Brandonz
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Username: Brandonz

Post Number: 45
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.40.195.29
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"06/12/2006 Governor Encourages Michigan Residents to Observe Flag Day, Flag Month in Michigan"

..."Flag Month"? Guess I missed that one. Whoops.

I think we should have a State of Michigan Flag day. Who's in?
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2683
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.221.37.61
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andylinn,

1. DeVos has stated strong support for Detroit. Paraphrasing..."Michigan's comeback won't be complete without Detroit's comeback".

2. DeVos has also visited Detroit on a number of occasions and has more visits planned.

3. Whether receivership is good or bad for Detroit is highly debatable.

Thejesus, the issue regarding the gas price petition involves the Granholm Campaign contacting people that signed the petition soliciting them for votes. The Democrats acknowledged doing so, stating that it was not illegal because they did not solicit donations and that they obtained the information through a FOIA. The Republicans argue that they also filed a FOIA for the same information and were denied. The Democrats deny that allegation.
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 113
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The DeVos family has had money for decades now. Is there anyone who can trace a donation of any significance to a Detroit/area institution (art museum, historical foundation, educational foundation, research group, etc)?
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 135
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.141.144.2
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

saying he supports detroit and being republican are polar opposites. being republican, is he for personal transit, not mass transit, for suburban living, not urban living? does he support no child left behind? what are his thoughts on the environment? he's conservative, therefore, obviously a silly sally. .andy.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 143
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One can criticise a candidate from a wealthy family if you think they do not give enough of their wealth to charity (assuming you don't live in a glass house), but it is their money and they should be allowed to distribute it wherever they choose. To criticise a candidate just because he may not have made donations in the area where you live is really "grasping at straws" and prooves nothing.

Looking at the records, it is clear that the DeVos families are very generous with their wealth and as one would expect, it has been targeted to charitable causes in the local areas where they live (which is more than you can say about the Ford Foundation).

The Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation, with assets of over $97 million, has awarded over the years a total of $177 million in grants, recently averaging more than $25 million per year. Dick and Betsy DeVos have contributed more than $29 million of their wealth to the Dick and Betsy DeVos Foundation, which has awarded various grants totalling about $3.3 million in each of the past three years.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 136
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.141.144.2
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

generous? good for him, thumbs up... but i'm detroit centric.... what's he going to do for detroit? A: nothing...
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 568
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 75.9.255.242
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Which of course is three times what Ms. G has done!
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 114
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you people serious? Do you think a neo-conservative is going to help Detroit?
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 570
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Posted From: 75.9.255.242
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you think our dem Gov. with hands firmly shackled to the left's private interest groups has done anything for Detroit?

Wake up.
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 115
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wake up? Geeze. The people get the government they deserve.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1057
Registered: 11-2003
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Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But you have to look at where the DeVos Foundation has given their money. They have personally bankrolled the ballot proposals the past 20 years for school vouchers. And how they want to do vouchers is, public schools you have to deal with all the regulations, privatye schools, you take state money, you have no regulation, no state tests, no guidelines. True they give away a lot of their money to their foundations and cause, but most of those causes are ultra conservative Republican causes, including being one of the largest contributors to W and the Republican party. Again, it's their money and they can do what they want with it, but you have to look at where it goes.
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Livernoisyard
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Bob tried to convey a message: "And how they want to do vouchers is, public schools you have to deal with all the regulations, privatye schools, you take state money, you have no regulation, no state tests, no guidelines."


The preceding "sentence" (from a bona fide public-school teacher, no less) could be used as a poster child for affording parents an "opting out" of the public-school systems and switching to anything better.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on July 13, 2006)
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Bob
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Not sure if you were agreeing with me or not. The DeVos idea of vouchers is going to end up making public schools even more of a dumping ground than they are already becoming. Because under the DeVos voucher plan (which he claims is a dead issue when asked right now), since the private schools would not have to follow regulations, they could still turn away anyone based on whatever criteria they use. And by the way Livernoisyard, I am actually a private school teacher, but have also taught for four years in a public school, so I have a somewhat unique take on things. Public schools do have their issues, which we have discusses at length, but the DeVos voucher plan would have killed them in the state of Michigan.
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Livernoisyard
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Oops! My bad, Bob...

I taught both public and private but preferred private, BTW.

Anything that empowers parents concerning the education of their children is fine with me. The state should provide equal funding (or even somewhat less) to alternative school choices as to what it applies to the public schools. So far, a relatively limited number of state charters is about the only choice available now. Any other alternative is a financial hardship to many (most?) parents.
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Metrodetguy
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Sorry Andylinn and GMich, but you're going to have to provide more substance than stereotypes and labeling. The "liberal" "Democrat" incumbent governor hasn't done much for Detroit (or the state) so labels don't mean much.

And sorry Bob but your analysis on the voucher issue is less than accurate. Anything that helps children in their schooling is a good thing, whether public or private. Why shouldn't people have choices? Why should only those that can afford it get to go to private schools? Imagine if someone said that only those can afford it can go to college.

Also, your "analysis" of where they give their money used selective reasoning. Northwood University, Hope College, Calvin College, Aquinas College, Ava Maria Law School, Red Cross-West MI, United Way, Second Harvest Food Bank, Grand Rapids Symphony, Boys and Girls Club, St. Mary's Medican Center, Salvation Army-GR, Transplant Recipients International, Hospice of MI-GR, National Right to Read Foundation, Alzheimers Assocation, etc. certainly doesn't equal "most of those causes are ultra conservative Republican causes".
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Gmich99
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Metrodetguy... Northwood University, Hope College, Aquinas College, Ave Maria Law School, and lets not forget his donations to Republican party... all of which are very liberal organizations as we are all aware.

(Message edited by gmich99 on July 14, 2006)
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Gmich99
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Detroit Free Press
MAY 18, 2000
Amway Corp., Michigan's largest direct-sales company, said Wednesday that it's eliminating 1,300 jobs -- or about 11 percent of its workforce worldwide -- as part of an plan to focus more on e-commerce opportunities.
About 900 jobs will come from Amway's headquarters in Ada, which employs 4,500 people. Most of the cuts there will occur among the 2,700 managers and salaried staff members, Amway officials said. The remaining cuts will take place in California and overseas.
The 3 million people who sell Amway detergents, vitamins and lipsticks worldwide will not be affected by the cuts.
Amway officials, who first hinted at the cuts in February, refused to call Wednesday's announcement a cost-cutting effort, even though sales are slipping and the officials noted the cuts will save the company $300 million a year.
Instead, they blamed the cuts on a need to better develop Internet sales opportunities to aid its traditional sales force.
"We truly hate to have to part with so many talented, hard-working people. But like so many companies today, we must adapt our business to succeed in the new economy, where the Internet is transforming business," Amway President Dick DeVos said in a statement.
But business turnaround expert Van Conway, president of Conway, Mackenzie & Dunleavy in Birmingham, said the move has cost-cutting written all over it.
"This is a pure reduction of overhead and downsizing," Conway said. "It suggests there may be more severe problems than they want to admit."
DeVos and Amway Chairman Steve Van Andel began notifying workers about the cuts at 6 a.m. Wednesday. Employees will be identified for cuts throughout the summer and let go by the end of the year, company officials say.
Amway employees described the mood at the company as somber Wednesday.
Ada Township Supervisor George Haga expressed concern for the workers but said he wasn't too worried about the move's economic impact on the bedroom community located about 15 miles east of Grand Rapids.
"We're always concerned about people leaving the community, but the desirability isn't just focused around Amway," he said.
DeVos and Van Andel are sons of retired Amway founders, Grand Rapids-area philanthropists Jay Van Andel and Rich DeVos, who left the company in 1995 and 1993, respectively.
The families are responsible for a number of Grand Rapids projects, including the Amway Grand Plaza hotel, Van Andel Arena and DeVos Hall.
Their company -- sometimes accused of being a pyramid scheme, but considered legal because it bases pay on product sales and not on how many new recruits workers bring in -- is considered a world leader in the direct-sales industry.
Motive: Moving forward
Amway officials insisted the cuts announced Wednesday are being done for a different reason than the 2,000 job eliminations -- some taken as early retirements -- that took place at Amway in 1998.
Those, which included about 400 in Ada, were blamed on company losses tied to the troubled Asian market and problems in China with the government controlling direct-selling efforts.
Because Amway is privately held by the DeVos and Van Andel families, it's impossible to know how much money the company is making.
Mark Bain, an Amway spokesman, said Amway is financially sound and that its cash position is solid. "We're just creating a business for the future," he said.
But Amway's sales have been declining, despite industry-wide direct-sales increases. Between 1997 and 1999, Amway sales dropped 29 percent to $5 billion.
Experts say the problem involves the fact that dual-income families have less time to sell products or be bothered with one-on-one sales.
In an effort to make buying more convenient, many traditional direct-selling companies, including Avon and Tupperware, are experimenting with Internet sales.
The Van Andel and DeVos families established the Web site www.quixtar.com in September to market Amway products. Within the first 200 days, the company -- which is separate from Amway -- generated $250 million in sales. Sales beyond that date have not been released.
Quixtar's success has encouraged Amway executives to shift more of their growth focus to the Internet.
"Clearly, we feel very optimistic about the potential of the e-business, but we also feel very optimistic about the Amway business," Bain said.
He stressed that the new Internet focus will not replace Amway's traditional sales force.
"What we will be doing is creating new products and opportunities to help them be more successful," Bain said.
Michael Bernacchi, a marketing professor at the University of Detroit Mercy, said he interpreted Amway's justification for the cuts as "part reality and part smoke screen."
"I really think Amway has been looking for a way to dump their origins for a long, long time," he said. "And then came e-commerce, which is another form of direct marketing."
As Amway makes these shifts toward e-business strategies, its employees are likely to agonize over the pending cuts all summer, experts said.
"This is going to lead to bad morale," Conway said.
Trent Buck, owner of the Ada Barber Shop, said, "A lot of people are right on the edge of their seats wondering whether they'll have jobs. Nobody really knows what's going to happen. It's kind of a somber mood."
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Gmich99
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Detroit Free Press
NOVEMBER 21, 1998
Amway Corp. announced Friday it will shed 10 percent of its U.S. workforce, including 410 employees in Michigan, through job cuts and early retirement.
The home- and personal-care products distributor said Friday that 180 jobs will be cut at its world headquarters in the west Michigan town of Ada.
Another 70 jobs will be eliminated in California, Colorado and Nevada. Additionally, 291 employees -- 230 in Michigan -- already have chosen to accept an early-retirement program. With the reduction, the employee count in Michigan will drop from about 5,200 to 4,800.
The job cuts, which Amway President Dick DeVos called "an absolute necessity," come amidst a company restructuring and a weakening demand for Amway products in economically troubled Asia, where the company does nearly half its business.
"The benefits, long-term, will be significant as we emerge from this restructuring with a smaller, more-focused organization," DeVos said.
He said he expects next year to be a "transition year, given the softness of the Asian market." Although he expects sales to be flat, DeVos said he does not expect further job cuts. A faster development cycle for new products and the launch of an Internet site in the next year will help turn the company around, he said.
"This was an especially difficult step for Amway to take because we've worked with many of these employees for so long," Amway Chairman Steve Van Andel said in a statement.
Those losing their jobs -- mostly administrative workers -- will receive full wages through the end of the year and a severance package based on their position and years of service. They also will continue to receive life and health insurance through the end of March.
Amway reported its global sales dropped 18 percent in fiscal 1998 to $5.7 billion, the first decline since 1984. The figures represent combined results from 49 markets served by privately owned Amway and its publicly traded affiliates, Amway Asia Pacific Ltd. and Amway Japan Ltd.
The company, with a direct-sales force of three million people worldwide, said 85 percent of the sales decline could be attributed to factors associated with the strong U.S. dollar and the weak Asian economy
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Gmich99
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George Weeks, Detroit News, March 4, 2001
“Michigan businessman Dick DeVos, a major Republican contributor and driving force behind last year's failed school voucher ballot campaign, has declined to become President Bush's ambassador to the Netherlands.
"I am honored and flattered that the president would consider giving me the opportunity to represent our country abroad," said DeVos, president of Ada-based Alticor Inc., formerly Amway Corp. "Unfortunately, however, my business commitments do not permit me to serve at this time."
Bush aide Karl Rove called DeVos to ask if he would be willing to be considered. DeVos has also ruled out a bid next year for governor or U.S. Senate.”
May 24, 2005 by the Niagara Falls Reporter
“The DeVos crowd dominates Michigan Republican circles these days and they would drum out Grand Rapid's own Gerald Ford from the party. The former president's views are far too liberal and inclusive for the Bush-DeVos GOP, rooted as it now is in fundamentalism and intolerance. Given that environment, it's easy to see why Bush's "brain" Karl Rove selected Calvin College as one of two schools where the president delivers the commencement address this year.”
DeVos Won't Release Tax Returns
Phil Dawson

Holland- Republican candidate for governor Dick DeVos, a member of one of America's richest families, says he will not release his entire income tax returns. He says he will provide some summaries of his wealth.

"I have decided I'm going to disclose certain information because I think it is important," DeVos said during a campaign stop in Holland.
"Certain information as a governor is appropriate."

Mark Brewer, the Chair of the Michigan Democratic Party, is calling upon DeVos to release his entire tax return so voters can know his income and how much tax he pays.

"It creates the suspicion there is something in there he is trying to hide," says Brewer.

Brewer says not only does Governor Granholm release her tax returns; he says recent Republican candidates also shared their financial secrets.

"John Engler, Dick Posthumous disclosed their tax returns," says Brewer. "We think Dick DeVos should adhere to the same standard."

"The Democrats are discussing an issue we will address openly and directly at the appropriate time," says DeVos.

Candidates who release their tax returns may think it is an important issue for voters, which may or may not be true.

"I don't feel they need to share that information," says Robert Dody in Holland. "It's more of personal information."

"Of course I do want to see the returns," says Tracy Beeks in Grand Rapids. "I just want to see what's going on."

Mark Brewer says the tax returns can reveal a possible conflict of interest.

"The press and citizens can decide if anything in there is important," he says.

But DeVos calls the demand to see his tax return a distraction from the important issues.

"While Democrats are talking about tax returns, I'm tallking about how do we get jobs in Michigan," he says. "How to get more people working so they have the opportunity to pay taxes."
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Gmich99
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Dick DeVos on the Frank Beckman Show on WJR, 11/08/05
Beckman: Do you like the tax reform measure that’s going through the House and Senate right now, the compromise that was forged between Ken Sikkema from the Senate.. and Craig DeRoche from the House and Governor Granholm?
DeVos: No
Beckman: Why not?
DeVos: Its half measure in my view, a mean it’s a compromise.
DeVos speaking to the Roscommon Co. GOP in Prudenville, 10-5-05
Anonymous Woman: Hi, where do you stand on the minimum wage?
Dick DeVos: Where do I stand on the minimum wage?
AW: Uh Huh
DD: As far as whether, what minimum wage raising the minimum wage?
AW: Yeah.
DD: I am very concerned about the the discussion right now to increase the minimum wage. I have not established a position on the current proposal. And I, I will soon. But here is my concern just to just to talk through the issue. My concern is that we need to find ways to help folks be sure they are making more than the minimum wage.
AW: Right.
DD: We all agree. My question then is how do we best do that, right. What is the best way for that to happen. Because we all agree on the goal. A couple things, one is that most of you know most of the minimum wage jobs that occur today uh are part time. A lot of folks are doing part time work. My concern is that if we if we push the minimum wage too much the possibility is, and I think a lot of economists will tell you, that if you push the minimum wage up artificially you end up losing jobs. So then the question and concern we have to have is do we do we you know are we rather have folks have a job where they can learn job skills, part time. A lot these folks are col- kids coming out of school. I mean there are a lot of folks are doing this work on a part time basis to make some money. They are learning skills, you know they are developing a pattern of work and their understanding and building a resume. So this artificial increase in the minimum wage, I am not sure it actually does what we want it to do. Because we all want everybody, we all want for folks to be able to make more, and be able to do more. The problem is always, what we do, how do we how do we get that goal. And I think the experience has been by many that we don't achieve the objective by simply artif- by increasing uh minimum wage. We want people to have jobs that they can they can grow in and we want kids to be able learn how they enter the world of work. Uh,We want folks to have as many options for part time and I and I guess my fundamental view is that I would rather have folks working and being involved uh and being productive. Rather than not having jobs at all.
Transcript from Dick DeVos, speaking to the Heritage Foundation, December 3, 2002
"Having a governor now who uh who is opposed to education reform uh provides uh a somewhat of a of a lock-out as well as Michigan having one of the most difficult constitutions as it relates to allowing any public funds to flow into uh non-public institutions. And so Michigan sadly, having defeated the voucher initiative, which I must say was really a very good and uh a very well uh thought through proposal. Um unfortunately, Michigan may well move to the back of the education reform train which which uh as a native of Michigan I'm I'm saddened to say, but uh when the time comes uh we will bring the fight back to Michigan again and do everything we can there. So I uh I am continuing to be optimistic. Uh I have in the ten plus years of involvement and discussion on education reform um initiative I've seen tremendous progress."
Fox News Special Report with Brit Hume 05/20/99 Copyright Federal Document Clearing House
Jeff Birnbaum, from Fortune magazine, in an interview by Brit Hume on Fox news, discussing fundraising forRepublican Majority Issues Committee. Hume asked who the possible contributors may be and Birnbaum responded:
“Well, I was told about a Delay briefing on the republican Majority Issues Committee on the yacht of Dick and Betsy DeVos (ph). Dick DeVos is the president of Amway Corporation, a very big contributor to conservative and Republican causes. He could certainly pony up some money.”
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Gmich99
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Big GOP Contributors Look for Return on Their Money
By Tom Hamburger. Wall Street Journal. (Eastern edition). New York, N.Y.: Dec 28, 2000. pg. A.12
The family that contributed more than any other to the Bush campaign and the Republican Party isn't communicating with transition officials at all, says Dick DeVos, president of Altico, parent of Amway Co. of Grand Rapids, Mich.
Mr. DeVos and family members contributed $602,000, according to the Center for Responsive Politics in Washington. "We want to see good policy enacted and to see good people of quality and integrity elected," Mr. DeVos says. He hopes Mr. Bush will champion school vouchers and push regulatory and tax relief for family businesses, but says he doesn't think he needs to call the Bush transition team now. "They know where we are," he says.

Brewer Gives DeVos Campaign “Details” of Amway’s $300 Million China Tax Break
DeVos spokesman claims ignorance on the “details” of DeVos’ soft money and corporate tax
LANSING- Today Michigan Democratic Party Chair Mark Brewer sent the DeVos For Governor Campaign the Common Cause report on the tax loophole inserted into the 1997 federal tax and budget bill which primarily benefited Amway and its Asian investments, to the tune of nearly $300 million. Amway’s tax giveaway occurred while Dick DeVos was president of the company and after Amway and the DeVos family had given millions of dollars in soft money to various Republican groups during the 1990’s. The Associated Press recently reported that, "John Truscott, DeVos' campaign spokesman, said he didn't know the details of the federal tax breaks Brewer referred to and wouldn't respond to the Democratic charges."
“It seems that the DeVos campaign continues to be ignorant of his record at Amway,” said Brewer. “Today, I’m filling them in on the details of how the DeVos family’s millions of dollars in soft money to Republican groups was followed by a huge hidden tax break for their company.”
Taking advantage of the family political influence created by millions of dollars in soft money contributions to the GOP, DeVos sought and got federal tax breaks on Amway’s China investments. The $300 million tax loophole for Amway came just before DeVos cut 1,400 Michigan jobs, invested hundreds of millions of dollars in China and created tens of thousands of jobs in China.
“Amway never replaced the 1,400 jobs lost under Dick DeVos, but he, Amway and his family have since received hundreds of millions of dollars in benefits,” said Brewer. “DeVos cannot continue to dodge questions about his record at Amway by claiming ignorance.”
Brewer’s letter to the DeVos Campaign, the Common Cause report and other articles regarding Amway’s China tax break are attached.
Fox News Special Report with Brit Hume 05/20/99 Copyright Federal Document Clearing House
Jeff Birnbaum, from Fortune magazine, in an interview by Brit Hume on Fox news, discussing fundraising forRepublican Majority Issues Committee. Hume asked who the possible contributors may be and Birnbaum responded:
“Well, I was told about a Delay briefing on the republican Majority Issues Committee on the yacht of Dick and Betsy DeVos (ph). Dick DeVos is the president of Amway Corporation, a very big contributor to conservative and Republican causes. He could certainly pony up some money.”
Big GOP Contributors Look for Return on Their Money
By Tom Hamburger. Wall Street Journal. (Eastern edition). New York, N.Y.: Dec 28, 2000. pg. A.12
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Gmich99
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The Wall Street Journal
11/16/2004
Author: Carol Hymowitz

Red or blue, or however they voted on Election Day, business leaders share common economic concerns. As a result, many of them would offer similar counsel if they were invited by President Bush to the Oval Office for an economic summit.
Shrinking the U.S. budget deficit, which reached $412.28 billion in the year that ended Sept. 30, should be the president's No. 1 economic priority, many of them say. Other top concerns: expanding the economy by creating more U.S.-based jobs.
Yet many top corporate leaders, who need White House and congressional support on regulatory, trade and tax issues, are reluctant to voice their views publicly. "There's so much at stake, but no one wants to get a call from Karl Rove [the president's chief political strategist] asking why you are talking to the press instead of talking directly to the White House," says one executive.
Adds a CEO at one of the world's largest corporations, who also declined to be named: "The deficit is out of control, but you've got this expectation that taxes should be lower and that social services can't be eliminated, which doesn't lead to easy solutions."
David Brandon isn't so reticent about sharing his wish list. The chairman and CEO of Domino's Pizza says he hopes the administration will hold down the price of gasoline. Domino's employees drive nine million miles each week and are reimbursed for what they spend on gasoline, "so we care a lot about fuel prices," he says.
He is also counting on the president to counter any potential moves to increase the minimum wage. "From our perspective, raising the minimum wage is a job killer,” says Mr. Brandon, whose company pays that wage to about 60,000 pizza-delivery drivers, who account for more than half of its work force. These employees, he notes, also earn tips from customers, which boosts their hourly salary. "If the minimum wage were increased, there would be price inflation for consumers or we would likely employ fewer people." he says.
As head of Domino's and in his duties as a director at Burger King and TJX, which operates retail chains such as TJ Maxx and HomeGoods, Mr. Brandon also worries about consumer confidence. "Our businesses depend on people feeling confident enough to spend money on things they don't absolutely need, so we're looking to the president and his team to give people a sense of confidence in terms of interest rates, economic growth and job creation," he says.
Michael Bonsignore, retired chairman and CEO of Honeywell, wants "bold intervention" from the White House on several economic fronts. To help shrink the deficit, while also closing the gap between rich and poor, he suggests educational funding for technical and vocational training. "We've let the pendulum on outsourcing swing too far," he says, "and we have to focus on bringing back skilled jobs through more targeted technical education."
Mr. Bonsignore believes that, in turn, would improve wages and produce consumers with more buying power. "President Bush is saying he is going to halve the deficit in his second term by broadening the economy," he notes, "and this is one way to do it."
He also hopes President Bush will reach out to global allies. "We need to reassure them that we aren't taking them for granted," he says. Americans don't earn or save enough to finance all their consumption and investment needs plus the federal deficit. The shortfall must be financed by selling stocks, bonds or other IOUs to foreigners. "We are alienating people who are friends -- and needed investors," Mr. Bonsignore says.
Chris Viehbacher, president of US Pharmaceuticals at U.K.-based GlaxoSmithKline, argues that one way to narrow the deficit is to cut health-care costs. Within the next four or five years, the federal government will be paying for about 50% of all prescription drugs, he notes. He urges the government, working with pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, physicians and insurers, to reduce costs by pressing for better medical outcomes. "The bulk of health-care costs go to treating patients with chronic diseases, such as diabetes, asthma and cardiovascular problems," he says. "If you focus on prevention and start managing treatment better to contain the disease, you can save substantial sums."
Bob Fair, vice president and chief marketing officer of NCR's Teradata division, gives kudos to President Bush's re-election team for their marketing prowess. On Election Day, he received six telephone calls at his Dayton home from Republican Party campaigners who were calling to remind him that the race in Ohio was tight and to urge him to vote.
Now, he hopes that the Bush administration will purchase his company's information-technology systems to better manage the economy and national security. Government officials "have tons of information, but the challenge is pulling it together fast enough to glean insight and take action to prevent a catastrophe," he says.


Dick DeVos on the Frank Beckman Show on WJR, 11/08/05
Beckman: Do you like the tax reform measure that’s going through the House and Senate right now, the compromise that was forged between Ken Sikkema from the Senate.. and Craig DeRoche from the House and Governor Granholm?
DeVos: No
Beckman: Why not?
DeVos: Its half measure in my view, a mean it’s a compromise.
DeVos speaking to the Roscommon Co. GOP in Prudenville, 10-5-05
Anonymous Woman: Hi, where do you stand on the minimum wage?
Dick DeVos: Where do I stand on the minimum wage?
AW: Uh Huh
DD: As far as whether, what minimum wage raising the minimum wage?
AW: Yeah.
DD: I am very concerned about the the discussion right now to increase the minimum wage. I have not established a position on the current proposal. And I, I will soon. But here is my concern just to just to talk through the issue. My concern is that we need to find ways to help folks be sure they are making more than the minimum wage.
AW: Right.
DD: We all agree. My question then is how do we best do that, right. What is the best way for that to happen. Because we all agree on the goal. A couple things, one is that most of you know most of the minimum wage jobs that occur today uh are part time. A lot of folks are doing part time work. My concern is that if we if we push the minimum wage too much the possibility is, and I think a lot of economists will tell you, that if you push the minimum wage up artificially you end up losing jobs. So then the question and concern we have to have is do we do we you know are we rather have folks have a job where they can learn job skills, part time. A lot these folks are col- kids coming out of school. I mean there are a lot of folks are doing this work on a part time basis to make some money. They are learning skills, you know they are developing a pattern of work and their understanding and building a resume. So this artificial increase in the minimum wage, I am not sure it actually does what we want it to do. Because we all want everybody, we all want for folks to be able to make more, and be able to do more. The problem is always, what we do, how do we how do we get that goal. And I think the experience has been by many that we don't achieve the objective by simply artif- by increasing uh minimum wage. We want people to have jobs that they can they can grow in and we want kids to be able learn how they enter the world of work. Uh,We want folks to have as many options for part time and I and I guess my fundamental view is that I would rather have folks working and being involved uh and being productive. Rather than not having jobs at all.
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Gmich99
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THE MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY

November 23, 2005
DeVos to Michigan Citizens: Pay More
DeVos forced GOP to break tax agreement in order to eliminate business tax and shift tax burden to Michigan families
LANSING -Today Michigan Democratic Party Chair Mark Brewer blamed GOP gubernatorial candidate Dick DeVos for breaking the deal between the Legislature and Governor Granholm on the tax stimulus package.
"Dick DeVos, through personal phone calls and media appearances, used his money and political influence to force Republicans in the Legislature to break their agreement. DeVos' tax scheme will shift the tax burden from corporations to individuals, helping DeVos' corporate executive friends and costing Michigan households an additional $800 a year," said Brewer. "This political stunt hurts Michigan workers and the state's ability to create jobs."
The original agreement the Governor and Republicans reached on an economic stimulus for businesses would have helped Michigan businesses and encouraged them to keep their jobs here, without hurting citizens or forcing them to pay more. The original agreement called for substantial Single Business Tax credits and a rate reduction. Michigan's small businesses that pay the alternative tax will also receive a tax cut.
"Dick DeVos has put his political ambitions ahead of an agreement that would create jobs and help businesses without shifting the tax bill from corporations to Michigan families," added Brewer.
Transcript from Dick DeVos, speaking to the Heritage Foundation, December 3, 2002
"Having a governor now who uh who is opposed to education reform uh provides uh a somewhat of a of a lock-out as well as Michigan having one of the most difficult constitutions as it relates to allowing any public funds to flow into uh non-public institutions. And so Michigan sadly, having defeated the voucher initiative, which I must say was really a very good and uh a very well uh thought through proposal. Um unfortunately, Michigan may well move to the back of the education reform train which which uh as a native of Michigan I'm I'm saddened to say, but uh when the time comes uh we will bring the fight back to Michigan again and do everything we can there. So I uh I am continuing to be optimistic. Uh I have in the ten plus years of involvement and discussion on education reform um initiative I've seen tremendous progress."
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 24
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 68.43.29.171
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My big issue with the vouchers is that, we live in a pretty decent area where most women don't work and have gardeners in to maintain their lawns and flower beds but one of our neighbors was EXTREMELY gung ho on the vouchers because then vouchers would have paid for their daughter's private school education, which they can easily affort. I really can't see taking money from families that otherwise couldn't affort a decent education to pay for those who can.

My parents scraped and saved (Dad working up to four jobs at a time) to give each of us private education for 12 years with the understanding that we were responsible for our educations, etc. from there on in. We have no children but pay the same taxes as everyone else. I have no problem with helping educate children but I have a BIG issue with sending neighbors' children to expensive private schools when the parents could affort the tuition far more easily than mine did.
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 726
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.133.85
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gmich/Andylin, you make some wild generaliations. I'm a Republican and I strongly support mass transit and Detroit. I also happen to believe that the Democratic policies, which have held sway by and large here for over 80 years, have failed the people people and led to our current plight.

You criticize nonunion states and plants. Have you ever spent one minute in the new industrial facilties being built down South? These are state of the art factories with well paid work forces. Toyota, for example, has never had a lay off. The workers in these facilities have zero desire to be "saved" by the UAW and its culture of failure.

I think the UAW has cut the throat of the American worker, and most especially the people in and around Detroit, and I hate them for that.
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 727
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.133.85
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another group alongside the UAW that has royally screwed us and our children is the public school system. What's wrong with vouchers? Why shouldn't everyone get a choice?

I'd like to know what make-believe suburb the poster above thinks he lives in where the ladies spend all day gardening and the population can easily afford private school. That does not describe any significant demographic of this region.
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 25
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 68.43.29.171
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "make-believe suburb" is Northville Twp. And, believe me, when I drag my tired butt to and from work every day, I get extremely tired of the Ladies of the neighborhood who spend the majority of their days playing buncko (whatever the heck that is) and getting their hair done - blond, of course. The statement about a neighbor hoping that the vouchers could pay for her daughter's private, parochial education is what I was told directly by the neighbor - a faithful Republican.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 446
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 11:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

My big issue with the vouchers is that, we live in a pretty decent area where most women don't work and have gardeners in to maintain their lawns and flower beds but one of our neighbors was EXTREMELY gung ho on the vouchers because then vouchers would have paid for their daughter's private school education, which they can easily affort. I really can't see taking money from families that otherwise couldn't affort a decent education to pay for those who can.




Except giving a voucher to that "affluent" family wouldn't be taking money away from anyone, it would simply be giving the affluent family their money BACK that they paid into the public school system via taxes and allowing them to use it to seek a better education for their children.

Under the current "government knows best" system, you are forcibly taxed by the government and then TOLD where to send your child to school. That is, unless you want to pay twice (both taxes and tuition) to go your own way. Don't you think that PARENTS should be the gatekeeper of their child's educational choices, NOT the government? Who knows what's best for your child, YOU or the corrupt politicians?

Last time I checked, there was no shortage of old people and childless adults that pay taxes and fund the public school system without getting any direct use out of it, so it's not like the public schools will go bankrupt if a few thousand parents opt their children out to seek a better education.
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 124
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.106.156
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray-

"I also happen to believe that the Democratic policies, which have held sway by and large here for over 80 years, have failed the people and led to our current plight."

Your statement, like that of WMD and terrorist ties between Saddam, have no standing and are not based on any fact other than that’s what you would like to believe.

The Democratic Party has only controlled the Michigan Senate FOUR times since 1855 (earliest date that party control records are kept), (1) 1933-1934, (2) 1937 through 1938, (3) 1965-1966, and (4) 1975- 1983. The Democratic Party has only controlled the Michigan House SIX times since 1855, (1) 1891, (2) 1833-34, (3) 1938, (4) 1965-66, (5) 1969-92, and (6) 1997-98. The total number of times the Democratic Party has controlled both the House and the Senate is THREE times, (1) 1833-34, (2) 1938, and (3) 1965-66. Further, the Democrats only held both the Michigan Legislature and Executive TWICE in the state’s history, (1) 1933-34 and (2)1938. Michigan has had only 17 Democratic governors since 1837 out of 47 governors the most recent being 2000-2006, 1983-1991, and 1961-1963.

To characterize the Michigan Democratic Party as holding sway by-and-large in this state for over 80 years is a gross mischaracterization. Michigan has been dominated by the Republican Party from its inception to present. Michigan even holds claim as the birthplace of the Republican Party.

Michigan currently has a very conservative Republican leaning judiciary, a Republican majority in both the Michigan House and Senate all the while under a Republican President, House, Senate, and Supreme Court dominated by conservatives. If Michigan Republicans cannot get it done with advantages like these, then what difference would a Republican Governor with the success track record and political record of our laughable President G.W. Bush do for Michigan? If you’re wondering why Governor Granholm has been unable to do enough for Michigan you might want to look at our Republican legislature here in Michigan and our Republican Congress and President.

Now while you assemble all the justifications for electing DeVos from your re-elect George W. Bush box, consider the effect of a Governor DeVos on Detroit. A small minority of Detroiters will cast any votes toward a Republican candidate for any office from Detroit. Will this bring favor upon the city? DeVos has in the past favored a voucher system for Michigan. Only about half of Detroiters own a car. Will Detroiters even be able to transport their children to these better schools? DeVos is opposed to a minimum wage increase. An increase in the minimum wage would directly benefit Detroit. The current minimum wage is below that of the 1968 minimum wage when inflation is accounted for. The minimum wage would have to be around $8.50 cents to match that of the 1968 minimum wage. Then there is the topic of job creation. Amway had a net loss for Michigan jobs while DeVos was its president.

Blah blah blah… you’ll either vote one way or the other and I’m sure you won’t let the facts get in the way of your “truth.”

(Message edited by gmich99 on July 15, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1074
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A wayward DYES historian and eminent geographer was known to have uttered:
"Michigan even holds claim as the birthplace of the Republican Party."


GOP
The Schoolhouse in Ripon, Wisconsin where the Republican Party was organized in 1854.
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Gmich99
Member
Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 126
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 24.33.245.116
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While Ripon, Wisconsin plays an important role in Republican history, it was not until its first convention in Michigan that it truely became a party by adopting a platform. As the Grand Old Party's webpage says: The first official Republican meeting took place on July 6th, 1854 in Jackson, Michigan. The name "Republican" was chosen because it alluded to equality and reminded individuals of Thomas Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party. At the Jackson convention, the new party adopted a platform and nominated candidates for office in Michigan.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1080
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeh! Ripon is very important because the party have to be created first in order to have an "official" meeting afterwards!
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 127
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 24.33.245.116
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard, is this your point? Perhaps the 2008 election can be decided on the origin of their postal code.

(Message edited by gmich99 on July 16, 2006)
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Mtm
Member
Username: Mtm

Post Number: 26
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 68.43.29.171
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warriorfan,

Yes, giving affluent parents vouchers to pay for their children's education WOULD take away from others. There is only a (currently) finite amount to distribute for education and, if we start funding the private education of children whose parents CAN and DO chose to send them to private insitutions, there is less in the fund to pay for those who CANNOT affort otherwise.

As I said, we have no children and my parents struggled to pay for our private education while all of us paid taxes to support children whose futures will affect all of our futures despite gaining no personal benefit from said taxes. Why should I work so hard and pay my taxes to support the children of those who make considerably more than I do and who spend their days lounging without contributing anything other than their offspring to society?
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 406
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.41.145.5
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with the woman who was qouted in the front page article in this mornings paper about the gov. race when she stated, "Someones head has to roll" as to why she won't vote for Granholm like she did 4 years ago.

I'd say that 70% of the time I vote Republican, the rest Libertarian or Democrat. I voted for Kerry in the last presidential election because I couldn't in good conscience vote for Bush based on how he screwed up the war with Iraq. I certainly was no fan of Kerry as my vote for him was a "message" vote to the Republican party.

I vote for Granholm in the last election because I didn't like the other guy (I can't spell his name and I don't feel like looking it up). I'll be voting for Devos and I'm not thrilled with him at all, but in my opinion Granholm needs to be thrown out on her ass. If the tables were turned and a Republican was the governor of the Michigan the last 4 years I would be voting for a Democrat in the coming election. Regardless of what party they represent I refuse to reward incompetent politicians.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1059
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ONE of the biggest problems with the DeVos voucher plan, was the fact that for a private school to take the money, there were no strings attached, no testing, no regulations, you just get the money. But the public schools have to go by No Child Left Behind, do MEAP testing, deal with Title 1, handle sepcial eduation, etc. SO this would give private schools an unfair advantage over public, in effect turning them into a dumping ground. Charters are a nice in between because, they get the money, parents get the choice, AND they have to follow the same rules as public schools. There are lots of other problems with charters, but at least they are more fair than a private school getting money, but not having to follow the education laws.

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