  Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 96 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.73.228.59 |
After reading the Free Press article on the increased ridership on the People Mover, the ever present desire to see it expanded reared its head. This got me thinking about past conversations that have been had on the forum in terms of potential routs ect…… From the article there is a quote that states, “another concept is focused on expanding the People Mover. Since November, Marsden Burger, who worked for the firm that built the People Mover, has lobbied for expanding the route north to Detroit Medical Center and the New Center area”. The question I have is: is this alternative idea feasible and if so, what would/could these possible routs be? I was also wondering if anyone had the proposed routs that would have been built from the get go if the money would have been there; I am sure they needed to have a detailed plan to get the funding they did. I for one would like to see a midtown expansion and a Metro Airport expansion, similar to the blueline in Chicago, and maybe NW corridor expansion to the NW suburbs; like Chicago’s purple and yellow line. I have heard rumors in the past that the People Mover can reach speeds well over 60mph. Now, addressing the argument that the technology is outdated, I would point to Chicago’s major El redevelopment project, a form of mass transit that has gone relatively unchanged for over 100 years. If that works for them, a 19 year old technology should be able to be expanded on. What other paths would people like to see? I believe this is a job for PaintShop here is the article: http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=2006607180369 | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 369 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
The people mover should not be expanded. Transit should, in the form of light rail up Woodward, and maybe eventually to the airport, but Woodward first and foremost. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2456 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.102 |
Um.... the transit study is a separate entity not at all related to the People Mover, which I don't think the Freep reporter did a good job of explaining. Having an elevated PM route to the airport would be prohibitively expensive (over $1 billion, I'm sure). Even a loop thru the Medical/Cultural Center up to New Center, and back down thru Wayne State/Cass Park would be very costly, although the PM maintenance facility is already large enough to handle many times the number of PM cars they already have. I can't find any estimates, but it has to be millions per thousand feet of elevated track. Those columns and beams are not cheap!! | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 525 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
Using the existing rail lines from Metro to the Amtrak station would be the cheapest way to get people from Metro airport to downtown Detroit. Extending the People Mover to the Amtrak station in Midtown might not be feasible or cost effective. Expanding the track to Ford Field, Comerica Park or the casinos might increase ridership. Also, what new venues would influence the future path of the People Mover? | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.73.228.59 |
What is the reason for not-expanding the people mover, seems more convenient to keep one continuous form of transit instead of switching from one to another to make one commute……..what would have been initially the best idea is Amsterdam’s hybrid street grade, above ground light rail. I believe Boston has a similar style as does Minneapolis’s. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 36 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
One of the alernatives being studied for the AA-Detroit route would use the station built at Joe Loius as a transfer point from the line (result of the AA-Detroit Study) to the circulator (peoplemover). I would personally like to see longer lines that connect E-W (for example AA along Michigan to Gratiot to at least Hall Rd (M-59) or along Telegraph from Pontiac to Wyandotte to reduce the number of transfers, but we have to start expanding this service somewhere, somehow, if we ever want to serve the needs of the region. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2006 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
The Detroit people mover will never be expanded. The technology used was experimental. To recreate that technology would be cost prohibitive. Creating a second system with traditional light rail technology would be much cheaper. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 583 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
it just feels like none of this will ever happen | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2457 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.102 |
OK Ndavies... I'm gonna bite...  I think what you mean is that the technology is there... (the company who designed it is lobbying for an expansion) but to recreate the components (not exactly what one would call off-the-shelf parts assembly)... is cost prohibitive... | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1061 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I think more conventional light rail technology like the El system in Chicago is more cost-effective. With the growth in the New Center/Downtown/Cultural Center, can you imagine how much better it would be if all of this was connected? | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 149 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
The DPM is a one-way loop, which is OK for users in a short CBD loop. Expanding it outside the CBD as a one-way loop to the Medical Center or New Center would mean that to go from one side of the CBD to the other, one would have to make a much longer DPM trip and they would find that is probably just as quick or quicker to walk. To convert the DPM to a two-way system, it would be easier and cheaper to tear it all down and begin from scratch. | ||
Scardetroit Member Username: Scardetroit Post Number: 62 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 63.236.225.250 |
Hit the nail on the head Mikeg. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2007 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
The people mover's technology was only used in a couple of cities. It never reached production levels that would allow it to drop under experimental prices. The technology is now 25 years old and no one has picked up on it. No engineer in their right mind is going to choose this extremely expensive obsolete technology to expand the people mover. So you either go with a new ground up experimental technology for an equivilant price or lower cost proven light rail technology. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 637 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
The People Mover originally failed (read: low ridership) because it did not connect with residential areas of the city. The principal goal of any transit should be to get people from their home to their place of work. Any expansion or future light rail needs to connect with dense residential areas. My vote is for a line up the middle of Jefferson to Belle Isle, along which lies some of the densest residential in the city (there are DOZENS of 15-20 story high-rises and lots of tightly-packed residential units along this route with thousands of more high/medium density units en route).. This would result in a massive increase in ridership and a big decrease in demand for parking spots downtown. Oh yeah, and then I could take it downtown. | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 171 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.43.156.135 |
If the city DOES expand the DPM in the future. That will be outatanding for the city!!!! | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 98 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.73.228.59 |
I say go to a light rail system like Amersterdam......a sorta hybrid/modern day trolley | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1625 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Oooh! Doesn't Kami know it's illegal to compare Detroit to places like Chicago and New York??? Kami just doesn't understand Detroit. LOL | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2462 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.69 |
Looks like Kami is not alone.... | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 99 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.73.228.59 |
I would take Kami's opinion over the majority of the forum "experts" | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1062 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I don't think it would be a one way loop if it were expanded out to New Center. It would have a transfer point, they mentioned Broadway station, then it would have another ywo way line that would go out to New Center. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 524 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.209.147.12 |
Ndavies and Mikeg made terrific points. I agree that the technology and layout work fine for a short enclosed loop such as the CBD. In order to include the neighborhoods, Detroit needs technology and layout that are better suited for those purposes. Going up Woodward is priority #1, then connect to Metro Airport in some way, shape or form. After that, the next priority should be Jefferson up to the Pointes, as well as Grand River out to Novi. If the above can be accomplished, more hard-working Detroiters will be able to find employment that are out in the suburbs. People in the suburbs would also be able to enjoy more activities in Detroit without worrying about I-75 or I-696 being closed from Friday until Monday for construction. Rapid transit needs to happen and it WILL happen - the question is WHEN. Do you want to be the one using it ? Or should it wait until your grandchildren's era ? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1102 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
It's amusing seeing the greedy kids in this forum handing their department-store Santas lists that are four feet long with want they want for Christmas. The really amusing part would be to watch them afterwards receive only large bags of M&Ms in a "Season's Greetings" motif for all their wasted efforts. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 139 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
The answer is to improve our existing public bus systems to attract more riders. This will lower the per-passenger costs, attract more jobs to the downtown area and get more federal and state funding from fuel taxes. http://savethefueltax.org | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1628 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
And if you ask for nothing, you'll get at most, nothing. Greed on. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1103 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
"And if you ask for nothing, you'll get at most, nothing. Greed on." OK, here's your coal. Make it last. |
