Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » U of M raises tuition « Previous Next »
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 60
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 24.169.224.43
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Students at U-M Ann Arbor to pay 5.5% more this year

Costs at Flint, Dearborn campuses also rise

July 21, 2006

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By PEGGY WALSH-SARNECKI

FREE PRESS EDUCATION WRITER

The University of Michigan Board of Regents approved a 5.5% tuition increase this morning for most of its undergraduate students, bringing the cost of a year’s tuition at the Ann Arbor campus to $9,723.

Students at the Dearborn campus will pay 8 % more this school year, and Flint students will pay 7.9% more.

The tuition increases are in line with hikes announced by many of Michigan’s other public universities earlier this week, which ranged from 4.8 % at Northern Michigan University to 17.8% at Central Michigan University, which locked this year’s tuition price of $7,530 for Michigan residents for up to five years.

Even though the state is giving each of Michigan’s 15 public universities a 3% funding boost for this school year, U-M officials said today that they’re still playing catch up with previous cuts. Much of the shortfall will have to be made up by tuition increases.

That’s unsettling to Andrea Fisher Newman, the only regent to vote against the rate hikes at all of the campuses.

“We’re pricing people out of higher education,” Fisher Newman said. “We can’t go yell at the state if they decrease appropriations if they have a bad year and we can’t keep placing it on the backs of students.”

She said that after approving double-digit tuition increases last year, she wouldn’t vote in favor of another rate hike unless the university established an endowment to offset continually rising costs and lower the burden on students.

“There’s lot of ways to cut costs, and we don’t do it,” she said.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060721/NEWS99/ 60721007
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Jtw
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Username: Jtw

Post Number: 94
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 12.159.32.66
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

title should have been "U of M raises tuition less than previous years."
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4021
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.107
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Title should be that just about every single public univeristy in the state is raising tuition.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4978
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is nothing new, or unexpected. I'm just surprised it's only 5.5%.
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 79
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 152.160.42.163
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still cheap for what you get in state.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4979
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Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's ridiculous how much out of state tuition is. I mean, there's a reason why it is the way it is, but it's still mind-blowing. My first roommate was from Thailand, and he told me how much he was spending on tuition, and I couldn't believe it. In-state is such a bargain.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 61
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 24.169.224.43
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what caught my eye was the 8% increase at Dearborn, which is HUGE!
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 62
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Posted From: 24.169.224.43
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You guys talking about the thread title or the title of the article?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4022
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Posted From: 24.11.189.107
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does it matter?
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 64
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 24.169.224.43
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, actually
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2745
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan is still expensive compared to other state schools. You want to know a bargain? University of California schools are a BARGAIN for in-state students.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4982
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's be honest, though. A lot of those California state schools aren't very good. UCLA and Berkeley are the tops in the University of California system, and the Cal-Poly's in the CSU system. The rest are middle of the road at best.

And I don't know how $9700/year isn't a bargain for a UM education...
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2746
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Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The University of California schools aren't very good? Aram, are you on serious crack? No other public university system in the country has a majority of their schools rank in the top 50 of the U.S. News and World Report. When almost every California resident wants to attend their in-state college to save money, that is a sign of a bargain.

Yeah, U-M is $9700/year for tuition. What about ROOM AND BOARD? Other fees? That quickly increases to almost $20,000. Sorry, that is so not a bargain at all. U-M is known for giving crappy financial aid too if you are not low-income.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 68
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Posted From: 68.62.6.138
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know about the UC system's undergrad schools, but all 4 of their law schools are top 50, and 2 of those are top 15....
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2709
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.221.38.102
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here comes Ltorivia again with less than accurate information and taking swipes at U of M.

Aram's point was quite correct. The CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY (CSU) schools aren't very good. Note that the UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA (UC) schools are a different entity.

Furthermore, the UC System varies in any given year between 5-6 schools (out of 10) in the Top 50 (undergrad). So throwing around that "a majority of their schools rank in the Top 50" would not be the best way to describe those rankings.

Guess what, "almost every resident (in any state) wants to attend their in-state college(s) to save money" (among other reasons). That isn't a sign of anything. Also, "crappy financial aid" is certainly a debatable point.



(Message edited by metrodetguy on July 22, 2006)
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4983
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia's childish, petty hatred of UM is no secret around here. She'll take any chance she gets to take a cheap shot.

Even if it does come out to 20k (and if you watch your pennies, it doesn't have to cost that much), what do you get for it? Access to some of the best academic programs in the country, more degree options than you can shake a stick at, access to one of the largest and most renowned library systems in the United States (if not the world), access to many incredible cultural opportunities (how many universities can claim to have the Royal Shakespeare Company do a residency in their city on a regular basis?)...

Yes, it's a large state school. And it's not for everybody. But to say it's too expensive is a joke.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 457
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Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry, but this is high. When you factor in room & board, food, and other living expenses, you are looking at $15,000-17,000 a year, and that's if you live like a pauper. Most students will be financing this entirely through student loans.

That means that the cost of a four-year public university education for an in-state Michigan student will put them 40K-60K in debt, possibly more. That's not "cheap" at all. Yes, UofM is a quality education with an elite reputation, but how many people would go 60 grand in the hole just to say they went to UofM? Try making a $400 a month student loan repayment when you are only making 45K a year as a recent college grad, I wouldn't want to.
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 176
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 24.247.163.145
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia, what the hell are you talking about? I know people coming from mid to high income families getting a significant amount of financial aid. One of my friends who comes from a middle class family in Baltimore was recently awarded a $40,000 scholarship for his good grades and active membership in student groups. Shit, anyone can get scholarships and financial aid from the university if they take the time to actually apply for it.

So then you begin talking about room and board. Well, lets see.. I don't pay at all for my university meals because I work in the cafeterias which will employ just about anyone. So free meals + $8.50 an hour seems like a great way to pay off those expenses. Don't want to pay for the dorm room? Hmmm, why not be an RA and stay for free? It isn't extremely hard to get that position...just don't have a bad track record of MIP's. If RA isn't your thing, you could be a peer advisor or something which hardly requires any effort. You don't get free room and board, but you do get a reduction in your expenses. U of M can be affordable if you want it to be.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4985
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Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wolverine speaks the truth. If you're willing to put the effort in to find scholarships for yourself, there's always ways to find a way to make it out of Ann Arbor without any debt.

Hell, my sister is probably going to end up -making- money going to grad school at Michigan. Why? She researched the hell out of every single grant and scholarship and red cent she could get out of it, and came out with some incredibly amazing things that end up giving her stipends on top of tuition for room and board and expenses. And by watching her pennies, she's able to stretch that out to make ends meet.

If you really want to find a way to pay for it, you can do it. I have tons of friends who've done it that way.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2747
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Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I applied to University of Michigan, they gave me $0 in financial aid. Not everyone at University of Michigan can be an RA (not with its population size), and most people don't win scholarships or grants even if they research like hell in books or over the Internet. Let's be for real, folks. It is common fact that Michigan is one of the most expensive public universities in the country. That is not a lie. Michigan's need-based financial aid system SUCKS. You're better off low-income to get a free ride there. Michigan did not want me. Thankfully, Northwestern welcomed with me a financial aid I could not ignore. In return, I had the opportunity to live in Chicago without having to worry about living costs and to live in a city that is not suffering like Detroit. In addition, it was more affordable for my parents to have me live in Chicago than stay in the Detroit-Ann Arbor area because their Detroit automobile insurance dropped FIFTY percent. Something you should look into if you want to make your life more affordable in Detroit if you have dependents.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2748
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Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Top Public National Universities

1. University of California–Berkeley
2. University of Virginia
3. Univ. of California–Los Angeles
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
5. U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill
6. College of William and Mary (VA)
7. Univ. of California–San Diego
8. Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison
9. Georgia Institute of Technology
10. University of California–Irvine
11. U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
12. Univ. of California–Santa Barbara
University of Washington
14. Pennsylvania State U.–University Park
University of California–Davis
16. University of Florida
17. University of Texas–Austin
18. Univ. of Maryland–College Park
19. University of Georgia
University of Pittsburgh
21. Ohio State University–Columbus
Purdue Univ.–West Lafayette (IN)
Rutgers–New Brunswick (NJ)
Texas A&M Univ.–College Station
University of Iowa
26. Miami University–Oxford (OH)
University of Delaware
28. Univ. of California–Santa Cruz
University of Connecticut
30. Indiana University–Bloomington
Michigan State University
SUNY–Binghamton
Univ. of Minnesota–Twin Cities
34. Clemson University (SC)
North Carolina State U.–Raleigh
University of Colorado–Boulder
Virginia Tech
38. Auburn University (AL)
Iowa State University
Univ. of California–Riverside
Univ. of Missouri–Columbia
University of Tennessee
43. SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry
University of Vermont
45. SUNY–Stony Brook
University of Arizona
University of Kansas
Univ. of Nebraska–Lincoln
University of New Hampshire
50. University of Alabama
Univ. of Massachusetts–Amherst
52. Florida State University
Ohio University
University of Missouri–Rolla
University of Oklahoma
Univ. of South Carolina–Columbia
57. University at Buffalo–SUNY
University of Oregon
59. Colorado State University
University of Kentucky
University of Utah
Washington State University

I counted six UC schools in the top 50 national on the U.S. News and World Report. 8 are in the top 85. There are currently 9 UC schools (if you exclude Merced because it's brand new and too early to rate it). 6 out of 9 is a clear majority to me. That is two-thirds (66.67%).

OK, MetroDetGuy, repeat after me: I AM AN IDIOT. I AM AN IDIOT. I AM IDIOT. Yes, that's right. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!! SO SHUT ThE F--- UP unless you want to make yourself look more dumb than necessary. I swear, you are stupid as hell.
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2710
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.221.78.81
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia, nice try. Your original claim said "Top 50". After being proven wrong (once again), you not so subtlely changed the argument to "Top 50 PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES". Nice to see your lack of honesty and integrity.

Ltorivia, I hate to say this as a Black person, but you are a shining example of what is wrong with affirmative action. Your repeated lack of cognitive and analytical skills along with your lack of research ability and honesty/integrity shows you to be one of those High GPA in a weak curriculum at a weak school, low board scores, affirmative action admits. Your ego, bragging, and name-calling when you are proven wrong or disagree with someone just shows to be what the old folks called an educated fool.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4986
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Michigan did not want me.



No, you just didn't want to pay for it when there were other students who deserved the financial aid more than you.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4987
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Additionally, I would like to see you prove this statement:


quote:

It is common fact that Michigan is one of the most expensive public universities in the country.




All signs point to you calling me a name rather than backing it up with facts.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2749
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.194
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aram, why don't you try GOOGLE for a change? You know it doesn't hurt to take three seconds to type out the name on the search button. Look who's foolish now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U niversity_of_Michigan

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/2 7/pf/college/priciest_colleges /index.htm

http://webcenters.netscape.com puserve.com/pf/package.jsp?flo c=DC-topb&name=fte/mostexpensi vecolleges/mostexpensivecolleg es

And according to US News Best Colleges rankings (ya know, you don't even need a subscription to view the tuition numbers), I selected a few public schools and these were their tuition (exluding room and board) for the 2005-2006 school year.

$8910 Michigan-Ann Arbor
$7180 Virginia
$6681 UCSD
$6485 UCLA
$6413 Berkeley
$6220 Wisconsin-Madison
$4648 Georgia Tech
$4613 UNC-Chapel Hill
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2750
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.194
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MetroDetGuy, I have yet to see you research anything substantively on this board. In essence, you never defend your comments yet you call ME (where is your analytical proof? articles? numbers?) an affirmative action student. You have a lot of nerve to preach to the choir. Pot calling the kettle black? Two words for ya and Ward Connerly: Shut up.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4988
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Aram, why don't you try GOOGLE for a change? You know it doesn't hurt to take three seconds to type out the name on the search button.



If you're going to make a generalized claim like that, it's YOUR responsibility to back it up with facts- not mine. When you make a point, back it up. I have no way of knowing what your source is- that's why YOU have to provide it.

I see you chose just a few schools. Is Michigan the most expensive? Or did you delete a few to prove your point?

Your third link there is essentially useless for this argument, as it only lists tuition for public universities for out-of-state students, and the ten most expensive private universities. That's not what we're discussing here. Your second link is also useless, as it doesn't touch on the subject at hand- tuition for in-state students at public universities. It also pretty much just copies the information from the third link.

Nice work. Someone's got their diploma from the DetroitYES School of Quality Research.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2751
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The_aram, since you don't get around much outside the state, I selected the most Ivy-caliber public universities in the country. In essence, when you think of PUBLIC IVIES, you think of Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, Virginia, North Carolina, etc. Schools such as Tennessee, Ohio State, or Florida are irrelevant to this discussion because they are not considered very selective public research universities. As with the case above, according to U.S. News and World Report Best Colleges Rankings 2005, Michigan is clearly more expensive than schools like Berkeley and Wisconsin which provide just an equal (if not superior) education than Michigan. Berkeley is considered the #1 Public university in the country, and their in-state tuition is no where near as high as Michigan's. It seems like students at Berkeley get a much better bargain.

The aram, I know this must be stressful for you to believe that Michigan is clearly more expensive (and probably overpriced) than public universities its caliber.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2752
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since you're too lazy to even look up U.S. News and World Report, here's the link for ya:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/e du/college/rankings/brief/natu doc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php

I'm not gonna paste a link to every school I listed above. You can go to that link and click on the school and see for yourself the in-state and out-of-state tuition.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4990
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I'm asking for is not the list of the most expensive public universities that meet your small search criteria- what I'm asking for is the list of every public university in the country and their respective high tuitions. Which you have not, as of yet, provided.

Thus, your point is moot until you can back it up with complete figures.

Not my fault you can't properly back up a claim. Maybe they don't teach that at your beloved Northwestern.

I'm not afraid of Michigan being the most expensive public university in the country- it may very well be. I'd just like to see you properly prove your point. Which you seem to be unable to do.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2753
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aram, I gave you the sample data of the MOST SELECTIVE PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES. You want an entire list of all the schools in the country which is not what I am arguing. If you seriously want that, take what I have and do an entire list of the most selective public universities. I am not going to list you all 200+ schools and their tuition when that information is available over the Internet and even in books such as Princeton Review, U.S. News and World Report, and heck, even Barron's. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT MICHIGAN IS MORE EXPENSIVE (AND PROBABLY OVERPRICED) THAN SELECTIVE PUBLIC COLLEGES AMONG ITS CALIBER. Can you not read? Or are you too dumb to know the names of the most selective public colleges? I can give you one hint, it's not 200+ universities. You are the one with the comprehension problem.
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2711
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.248.11.127
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia, once again your name calling and inaccurate/dishonest claims can't distract from your lack of accuracy/honesty nor from the topic at hand. Nice try.

1. Your story is fishy. On previous threads you've claimed that you are in serious financial need (as "evidenced" by your supposed Pell Grant and Work Study). Yet you chose Northwestern, which is about twice as much as U of M. Furthermore, how can someone that was awarded a Pell Grant and Work Study at one school allegedly be offered zero aid at another. Sorry that doesn't add up.

2. Where did I say that I didn't support affirmative action? Supporting something doesn't mean blindly following it without acknowledging its faults (and looking for improvements). Nice try. Your welfare mentality is sad.

3. How can one school (UC-B) that sometimes ranks above another (U of M), and vice-versa, and another school (Wisconsin) that always ranks below both, be about equals one minute...and then you turn around and claim that Berkley is "considered the #1 public school in the country"? (We get it, you don't like U of M)

4. Once again, you never addressed the issues that you clearly got wrong. Instead, more distractions by name-calling, talking in circles, and more inaccurate/dishonest claims. Sorry, but providing unrelated links for the sake of posting a link and/or a link and then stating the opposite of what it actually contains (hoping that people don't actually read and/or understand it) doesn't count.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4991
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

(We get it, you don't like U of M)



I think this pretty much sums up Ltorivia's argument right there.

She is unable to provide substantial support for her argument. Thus, it's just another thread where she shows up to say how amazing her education is at Northwestern while trying to justify to herself why she chose it over Michigan. I'm not saying this because I go to Michigan. Northwestern is an incredibly good school, and I applaud Ltorivia for attending it. I just have to call into question how someone who goes to such a prestigious university is unable to formulate a basic argument without angry all-caps namecalling, scant, nonsensical, selective factual information that doesn't directly back up her generalized claims, and useless html links to articles that don't provide the answers to the questions being asked by others when they want to know what the hell she's talking about.

I really wonder if in fact she didn't say no to Michigan, but rather, they said no to her...
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2754
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Your story is fishy. On previous threads you've claimed that you are in serious financial need (as "evidenced" by your supposed Pell Grant and Work Study). Yet you chose Northwestern, which is about twice as much as U of M. Furthermore, how can someone that was awarded a Pell Grant and Work Study at one school allegedly be offered zero aid at another. Sorry that doesn't add up.

I have never qualified for Pell Grants and I have always had work/study (and will continue to have it this school year). I don't know what the hell you are talking about, MetroDetGuy. In addition, Pell Grants go to low-income students. I am not considered "poor" by the federal government.

2. Ltorivia, I hate to say this as a Black person, but you are a shining example of what is wrong with affirmative action.

You assumed that I only got into Northwestern because of affirmative action. I never explicitly said you disagreed with affirmative action, but the mere fact you brought the subject up told me that that you think I'm not capable of excelling at my current university. (You know nothing about my life so don't even dare think you do). This thread is not about affirmative action, MetroDetGuy. You are the one who brought it up.

The bottom line is Michigan is more expensive (and probably overpriced) than other selective public universities in the country. Michigan is clearly not a "bargain" when students at other top-rated universities pay less in in-state tuition costs. During the 2005-2006 school year, Michigan's in-state tuition was around $8900. Now, the Detroit Free Press published $9700. Is this really an affordable cost for a public institution? When your public rivals cost thousands of dollars less? I rest my case. And to prove all doubters, I was accepted to U-M in Ann Arbor. I chose to matriculate to NU instead.

I think Michigan is a fabulous institution, and quite happy that the state of Michigan has one of the finest institutions of higher education in the country. However, I am quick to tell people that Michigan is not "cheap" or a "bargain" for undergraduates. Michigan has its current reputation because of its superior graduate programs and research centers. Students across the state of Michigan are wondering how they can afford to attend their local colleges, and U-M is the costliest public university in the state. As Warriorfan mentioned above in this thread, if you add room and board and living expenses, it easily costs up to $20,000 for just one year. Is Michigan really worth that price tag for a public university?
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2713
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.248.11.127
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia,

1. I based my assumption about your admission to Northwestern through affirmative action because of your behavior on this forum. If your own words can't be used to take an educated guess about your abilities, then I don't know what can...

Futhermore you did in fact imply that I was against affirmative action by attempting to equate me with Ward Connerly. Again your dishonesty speaks volumes.

2. Again, if costs are such an important issue with you, why did you go to a school that cost nearly twice as much as the one you complain about so much?

The bottom line is that your constant knee-jerk emotional responses and swipes at U of M are tiresome. Either step up to the stature of an elite student (and highly educated person) that you so seek...or be one of these uneducated, race-baiters, class warfare, etc. antagonists that isn't doing a damn thing to help anyone. You can't have it both ways.
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Hagglerock
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Username: Hagglerock

Post Number: 274
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 12.214.243.66
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan alumni are way too sensitive. I know, I'm one of em.

Ltorivia has a very good points, Michigan can be quite pricey for a public school. Like buying a Cadillac, in part, you pay for the name.

Personally I felt that a few of my academic experiences were over priced, especially having had a class taught by a TA/GSI who could barely communicate the subject in English. Don't forget the lack of the passion for teaching many professors seem to exhibit these days. Come on, I've sat-in a history class at my little brother's community college that had more of a passion for knowledge than some of my upper level courses.
My wife can also vouch for me, as we'll be paying for her 4-year BA over the next decade. However, I got lucky, I sold my soul to the government for my experience, but even that can't entice everyone.
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2715
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.248.11.127
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Most upperclassmen move out of dorms. Living off campus is cheaper than living in the dorms. So for many, the price tag does not equal $20,000.

2. Again, to counter Ltorivia's claim, many schools (among many other things in life) are more expense than they're actually "worth". Sorry but when the same poster is always singing the same type of tune against the same thing, regardless of the particular subject at hand (combined with name-calling and poor support), it's pretty suspect as to the intentions.

3. To counter another of Ltorivia's claims, many schools have "their current (overall) reputation because of superior graduate programs and/or research centers". Even second and third-tier schools have better overall reputations because of their advanced programs. Acting as if this is an anomaly at U of M is disingenuous and completely inaccurate.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2756
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Most upperclassmen move out of dorms. Living off campus is cheaper than living in the dorms. So for many, the price tag does not equal $20,000.

Since you claim to be a know-it-all, find me the statistic that most upper-classmen move off-campus. Find me evidence of the cost of living in Ann Arbor as a full-time student (including living expenses). I will not believe you until you provide SOUND PROOF EVIDENCE. I am sick and tired of your baseless responses.

2. Again, to counter Ltorivia's claim, many schools (among many other things in life) are more expense than they're actually "worth". Sorry but when the same poster is always singing the same type of tune against the same thing, regardless of the particular subject at hand (combined with name-calling and poor support), it's pretty suspect as to the intentions.

This thread is about selective public universities, MetroDetGuy. What do you mean "many things are worth more than they actually worth?" What does that have anything to do with this thread? Public universities have a duty to provide an affordable excellent to their state residents. Again, you are the one who is doing the knee-jerking response. Now assumptions by the way on my education. Again, all assumptions and you are the one who continues to look like an idiot. I never make assumptions about your background yet you think you're mightier than thou to think you know me. I have news for you, Metro: While you may not be Ward Connerly, you are no better to think I lack intellect and only got into my school because of affirmative action. You will be amazed at some of the accomplishments and praises I have done in college thus far. You are no better than Connerly, whether you support or disapprove of affirmative action.

3. To counter another of Ltorivia's claims, many schools have "their current (overall) reputation because of superior graduate programs and/or research centers". Even second and third-tier schools have better overall reputations because of their advanced programs. Acting as if this is an anomaly at U of M is disingenuous and completely inaccurate.

What does second and third tier schools have to do with this thread? My entire posts have been about SELECTIVE PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES. Michigan has many second and third tier universities, but none of them cost the enormous price of the University of Michigan. And I agree, that some second tier universities offer a better undergraduate education (many of the HBCUs and selective small liberal arts colleges come into mind) Many second and third tier universities don't have nearly the large endowments or quality research centers like Michigan, Berkeley and Wisconsin. Again, your baseless arguments without evidence are getting redundant and tiring, MetroDetGuy. Instead of sticking on-topic, you come up with other knee-jerking responses that are irrelevant to the discussion.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2757
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hagglerock, don't listen to aram and MetroDetGuy. They think it's impossible that a Michigan resident can criticize (with sound reasons) the overpriced undergraduate education of the University of Michigan. When you have residents in Michigan who cannot afford to attend the other 15 state colleges and universities, then you know something is up. It is also not a great statistic for Michigan to be the most expensive out-of-state public university in the country. People can criticize the price of private universities, but people must realize that many selective universities have enormous financial aid endowments to offset the cost.
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2717
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.248.1.251
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia, scroll up and answer the original questions and defend your original claims FIRST. Stop changing the subject by talking in circles and making false/inaccurate claims in an attempt to back away from your original false claims and name-calling.

Here I'll help you out:

1. University of California System vs California State University System. [Aram's point was correct, you combined the two different systems into one and argued that "point"]

2. Top 50 vs Top 50 Public [You can't change from the original argument to an entirely different criteria and not expect anyone to notice and still brag about being "right"]

3. Where did I say (for you to "agree") that "some second tier universities offer a better education"? [Again your comprehension skills are sorely lacking.]

4. "Many things COST more than they are actually worth". That's pretty self-explanatory. You misquoted me, hence you didn't understand your own misquote. Again, lack of comprehension.

5. Please cite with ACTUAL support where most upperclassmen still live in dorms. Please support your apparent counter claim that dorms are cheaper.

6. Most students in every state want to attend their in-state schools because it is cheaper, among other reasons. This isn't unique to California. Please support your assertion to the contrary.

7. 5 out of 10 is not a "majority". Please provide evidence to the contrary. Depending on the given year and poll, 6 out of 10 is a majority, however, again not the best way to make that selective point.

8. Please provide documented support for your claim that "Michigan's financial aid system sucks". No your own alleged personal experience doesn't count.

9. "Berkeley is considered the #1 public university". Please support that claim. No one poll from one given year does not count.

10. Again, costs are such an issue with you, but you went to a school that costs about twice as much as the one you are complaining about being so expense. Explain.

Try addressing those issues first before you begin asking other questions and posting more nonsense.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2758
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 143.231.249.141
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. University of California System vs California State University System. [Aram's point was correct, you combined the two different systems into one and argued that "point"]

I never said anything about the California State University system. Find me a post where I SPECFICIALLY mentioned California State University. All my posts have specifically dealt with the University of California system (hence Berkeley, UCLA, San Diego, etc.).

2. Top 50 vs Top 50 Public [You can't change from the original argument to an entirely different criteria and not expect anyone to notice and still brag about being "right"]

I posted the Top 50 Public Universities from the U.S. News and World Report because my concern was not private universities. It isolated the public universities from the private universities. I guess I shouldn't make statistics "easier" for people like you.

3. Where did I say (for you to "agree") that "some second tier universities offer a better education"? [Again your comprehension skills are sorely lacking.]

There are many undergraduate programs in the United States that provide an enriching education for their students. I highly recommend black students to attend HBCUS, especially Morehouse, Spelman, Fisk, Hampton, and Howard because they train the future leaders of America. These same HBCU students get into the top-ranked graduate programs (usually Michigan, Berkeley and other private universities).

4. "Many things COST more than they are actually worth". That's pretty self-explanatory. You misquoted me, hence you didn't understand your own misquote. Again, lack of comprehension.

I completely understand MY POINT. What are these "things" you speak of? You never clarify, so therefore your argument is moot.


5. Please cite with ACTUAL support where most upperclassmen still live in dorms. Please support your apparent counter claim that dorms are cheaper.

LOL TYPICAL CONSERVATIVE HOGWASH! Instead of answering MY ORIGINAL QUESTION, you answer WITH A QUESTION. HAHAHAHAHA!!!

6. Most students in every state want to attend their in-state schools because it is cheaper, among other reasons. This isn't unique to California. Please support your assertion to the contrary.

When did I ever say that most students do not want to attend their in-state universities? Please find where I said this.

7. 5 out of 10 is not a "majority". Please provide evidence to the contrary. Depending on the given year and poll, 6 out of 10 is a majority, however, again not the best way to make that selective point.

I listed 6 UC schools. There are currently 10. 6 out of 10 is a majority. MetroDetGuy, Is the weed getting to you? Do you seriously need glasses, or you cannot read English?

8. Please provide documented support for your claim that "Michigan's financial aid system sucks". No your own alleged personal experience doesn't count.

It is common knowledge that private universities usually offer better financial aid packages than public universities. I thought you were the Mr. Smarty Pants, Metro?

Private colleges with large endowments almost universally offer generous financial assistance, primarily in the form of grants, which students do not need to pay back. Scholarship aid at top universities can amount to more than $150,000 for a single student over four years. In fact, data from the U.S. Department of Education show that the median family income of students at private schools is actually lower than those at flagship public universities. In many cases, the private schools can offer better financial aid than public schools because they have greater resources.


http://www.questbridge.org/res ources/q_and_a/paying_for_coll ege.php#15


9. "Berkeley is considered the #1 public university". Please support that claim. No one poll from one given year does not count.

My, my, my. Someone is in denial.

Top Public National Universities

1. University of California–Berkeley
2. University of Virginia
3. Univ. of California–Los Angeles
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
5. U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/e du/college/rankings/brief/natu doc/natudoc_pub_brief.php

“Berkeley is consistently ranked as the number one public University in the United States for several reasons, but perhaps the most dominant one is its challenging academic atmosphere. The intense learning environment in some classes can lead to a high level of anxiety and distrust among students. The massive number of classes and majors may leave students a bit confused, but these cases are exceptions, not the rule.” -Student Author on Academics
http://www.collegeprowler.com/ guide.asp/1-59658-140-9/index. html

Academic success
By any standard, Cal offers its students one of the best educations available. Since its birth it has earned a reputation unmatched by any public university in America. According to a recent study by the National Research Council, Cal ranks first nationally in both the number of graduate programs in the Top 10 in their fields (97 percent) and the number of "distinguished" programs for the scholarship of the faculty (32 programs).


http://calbears.cstv.com/schoo l-bio/cal-school-bio.html

What's next, Metro? Gonna say that Michigan is better than Harvard and Yale? As much as I despise the methodology of the U.S. News and World Report, their rankings are usually accurate.

10. Again, costs are such an issue with you, but you went to a school that costs about twice as much as the one you are complaining about being so expense. Explain.

Northwestern is the same price as Michigan for me because I receive a generous financial aid package. Michigan would have given me NO money. Plus, I saved my parents an extra $4000 in car insurance they could not afford. Plus, I would pay an extra $10,000 to live in Chicago. This is an opportunity of a lifetime. I have met so many influential people because of my connections to Illinois, Michigan, and now Washington D.C. (where I'm currently residing).
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Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2719
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 75.10.24.148
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice try Ltorivia. Your latest post is absolutely piss poor. You can't be serious.

This thread is about many things, not just "selective public universities". Constantly trying to shift the discussion isn't helping your "cause".

1 and 2

Aram: "Let's be honest, though. A lot of those California state schools aren't very good. UCLA and Berkeley are the tops in the University of California system, and the Cal-Poly's in the CSU system. The rest are middle of the road at best.

Ltorivia: "The University of California schools aren't very good? Aram, are you on serious crack? [Note that Aram said CSU schools aren't very good, you chose to shift that observation onto UC schools and argue that non-point] No other public university system in the country has a majority of their schools rank in the TOP 50 [note no mention of the Top 50 PUBLIC] of the U.S. News and World Report. When almost every California resident wants to attend their in-state college to save money, that is a sign of a bargain."

3. Likewise, students from second, third, and fourth tier schools get into top grad schools. What's your point? And what's the point of bringing up HBCUs? A little race-baiting (with another Black person nonetheless) to distract from your inaccuracies. I thought you said the topic of the thread was "selective public universities"?

4. That doesn't even make sense.

5. On the contrary, I asked a question and you answered it with another question, so I asked a question again. Nice attempt at distration by bringing up conservatism.

6. You pointed to California students wanting to attend school in-state as a sign of a bargin. I asked how that was different from any other state. Keep trying.

7. Funny that you now acknowledge 10 UC schools. Previously you abitrarily eliminated one. Also, I ask yet again...in any given year 5 or 6 schools are ranked, I acknowledged that 6 is a majority, however, I pointed out that 5 is not. You are being dishonest again.

8. Ltorivia: "It is common knowledge that private universities usually offer better financial aid packages than public universities."

Last time I checked, there were hundreds of other public universities besides U of M. Again, why do you single U of M out?

9. Funny that you forgot to mention this about your source "College Prowler"... "University of California, Berkeley 2006 Students tell it like it is"...written by a student (at that school) author...Duh! a student rates his/her own school as the best, COME ON LTORIVIA!

Also, what's up with you using a College Sports Television bio of a school as a source? Are you that desperate?

Funny also on previous threads you dismissed US News and World Reports as inaccurate and biased! Try to keep your stories straight. We already know what's next for you, comparing Northwestern to the Ivy League while dismissing other school such as U of M, Hopkins, etc.

10. Once again, since Northwestern is the same price for you as U of M, why are you constantly complaining about and singling out U of M's tuition fees?
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Spartacus
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Username: Spartacus

Post Number: 129
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 209.114.251.65
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is one of the silliest threads in some time and I hate to contribute to it, but how can anoyone look at U.S. News and World Reports and determine that a school is overpriced? Since when did their subjective analysis become the end all be all? Furthermore, isn't it possible that the half dozen schools you're comparing UM to are incredible bargains? I have no love for UM, but I happen to think it still represents a trememdous bargain. If you don't believe me just look at what people are willing to pay for out of state tuition.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2759
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 143.231.249.141
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spartacus, the University of Michigan is one of the most expensive public universities in the country. I find it hard to believe that $9700 per year for in-state tuition is affordable for a public university. Out-of-state students are willing to go to Michigan because the majority were either Ivy rejects (sorry, MetroDetGuy and The_Aram) or rejected from their first-choice schools. In addition, the University of California schools are much cheaper to attend than the University of Michigan for in-state students. I pasted above in this thread the cost for in-state students at selective public universities and how they compared to Michigan. Given that the vast majority of selective public universities cost thousands of dollars less than Michigan for in-state tuition and offer the same quality of education, Michigan is therefore among the most expensive, overpriced and not-so-bargain pubilc universities in the country.

(Message edited by ltorivia485 on July 24, 2006)
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Umstucoach
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Username: Umstucoach

Post Number: 62
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Pennsylvania State University and the University of Illinois have higher in-state tuition. The in-state tuition is not even the highest in the Big Ten. Out of state tuition Michigan is the highest in the Big Ten for public instutions.

Nittany Lions

Illini

Also of interest, while Berkeley has a low out of state tuition ($17,820), don't live in a residence hall ($11,629)...ouch!

Bears
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4992
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like Umstucoach just pretty much busted a hole right through Ltorivia's argument. Well done, coach.
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The_kern
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Username: The_kern

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 24.11.217.126
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct me if i'm wrong but state funding has a lot to do with as well. The state of Michigan allocated X dollars for public higher education, the rest students and their families have to make up.
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Czar
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Username: Czar

Post Number: 3163
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 72.49.172.67
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Worst...thread...ever.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2760
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Illinois (UC): Tuition and fees: $8,624 in-state,

Michigan: Tuition and fees: $8,910 in-state,

Penn State: Tuition and fees: $9,822 in-state,

Source: U.S. News and World Report (2005-2006)

Illinois is not more expensive than Michigan. Again, my numbers above are reflecting the 2005-2006 costs. Penn State is also somewhat meaningless here because most people do not equate Penn State in the same "prestige" category as Berkeley, Michigan, Virginia, UCLA, and Wisconsin-Madison (the exception might be in engineering, but I am speaking in terms of overall ranking of departments). Remember, the most expensive private university in America is not Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Stanford caliber either. That title goes to Landmark University or George Washington University (personally, I think it's GWU) according to CNN Money magazine.

Nice try, nontheless. I still have my argument. Michigan is still among the most expensive of the selective public universities compared to Berkeley, Wisconsin, Virginia, and UCLA. Being mong the most expensive public universities in the nation for state residents is not a good thing either.
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2721
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.154.54.153
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C'mon Umstucoach, according to Ltorivia the original argument was Top 50...I mean Top 50 Public Schools...I mean most expensive schools...I mean most expensive public schools...I mean...

Ltorivia knows everything via "The Michigan Citizen"...Rasputin...name-cal ling...changing the subject...what her friends and family told her...her alleged attendance at Northwestern...polls from different sources from different years that she pieced together...College Sports TV...student reviews of their own schools from a little known website...and US News and World Report (when she's not dismissing it as "inaccurate" and "biased")

It's funny that you previously made such a stink about including room and board (at U of M of course) yet dismissed the point once Umstucoach posted information to the contrary...hmmm

And of course Northwestern is a first choice school not populated with Ivy League rejects like U of M!

(Message edited by metrodetguy on July 24, 2006)
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2722
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.154.54.153
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry to do this to you Ltorivia...wait, no I'm not!

Dorm Occupancy statistics: Juniors 8% + Seniors 5% = 13%. What happend to that "common knowledge" that you spoke of?

http://www.housing.umich.edu/g eneral/factsheet.html

MDG: Most upperclassmen move out of dorms. Living off campus is cheaper than living in the dorms. So for many, the price tag does not equal $20,000.

Ltorivia: Since you claim to be a know-it-all, find me the statistic that most upper-classmen move off-campus. Find me evidence of the cost of living in Ann Arbor as a full-time student (including living expenses). I will not believe you until you provide SOUND PROOF EVIDENCE. I am sick and tired of your baseless responses.

STICK A FORK IN HER, SHE'S DONE!
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Umstucoach
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Username: Umstucoach

Post Number: 63
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geez, I didn't know that the tuition reported by the schools themselves quallified as correct information because what the individual schools report themselves is obviously false or not important.

You attack Aram for not doing research yet quickly dismiss tuition statements from the websites from two universities that were top 15 public universites on lists you provided, now those schools aren't seen as good enough. Plus, when confronted with more up-to-date source material, it too is simply dismissed. Does it matter now what freshmen @ State College and Champaign-Urbana paid last year, or what they'll pay this year.

College is expensive in the state of Michigan period. Look at the tuitions at all state universites in Michigan, many now cost $7-8K a year in-state. It speaks to a larger problem in the state, one that is not being solved anytime soon, and the state suffers for that.

A little off the point: $11,000 to live on campus @ Berkeley, WOW.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2761
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, for once, MetroDetGuy actually posted LINKS LINKS LINKS LINKS! The world is a safer place because he had the audacity to look up information other than preach to the choir!

Too bad MetroDetGuy also forgot to mention that Ann Arbor has a HIGH COST OF LIVING.

In a 2001-2002 survey answered by Ann Arbor landlords, the University Off-Campus Housing Program found the average rental rates for a two bedroom house or apartment to be $1204.50. While this figure is near the same as Billing's estimate for a single room, one needs to take into account the costs of utilities, cable, telephone and food.

Ann Arbor is not a representative model for other Michigan campuses. At Michigan State University in East Lansing, students enjoy a fairly cheaper lifestyle that may include a newer place to live.

"Newer, bigger apartment buildings are being built further from the heart of the campus and many students choose to live in them," explained Gary Murphy, East Lansing finance director. "Although students now have to drive to class, these apartments are more updated and less expensive. This may force landlords to fix up the homes that are closer to campus."

As the property value of Ann Arbor increases, you can expect that the rents will too. Kathleen Hines, Ann Arbor interim community development administrator, describes the living costs to be based on principles of supply and demand.

"It's entirely possible for rent to increase when renovations are completed," she stated. "If a landlord puts $10,000 into a house, he has to make up for the costs by increasing the rent of his tenants. People want to and will live in Ann Arbor even though the cost of demand is so high."

A University student can live in a very old home that is in dire need of renovations and still pay more than their friends with new single-bedroom apartments at other universities. Perhaps the student body is being ripped off, and we need to ask ourselves one thing: Why is Ann Arbor so expensive?

Dave Brown, an Ann Arbor resident since 1968 and general manager of Shaman Drum Bookstore for five years, may have the answer to this elusive question. As a longtime member of the community, he has seen people and businesses come and go.

"Over the years there has been more development in the downtown areas and the outskirts of the city, causing the rent for businesses to increase," he noted. The student population has also increased dramatically, and with the last dorm being built in the 1970s (Bursley), more and more students need to find off-campus housing."

Brown, who brings his own lunch to work every day to avoid high restaurant prices, also added that the value of the dollar and education has changed while he has lived here. As the University increases the cost of tuition, the city can charge whatever the market allows, which seems to be basically any desired amount.

"The school can charge certain prices and be successful," he added. "The cost of education has altered so much that you have to have quite a bit of money to come here."

An Ivy League education is also associated with affluence, but surprisingly, it can be less expensive to live at a private school than at the University. Jenny Soble, a first-year law student at Yale who completed her undergraduate studies here in Ann Arbor believes that her living expenses are cheaper in New Haven, Conn.

"Living is definitely cheaper at Yale. When I was here, I lived in a house on Greenwood and now I'm in a much nicer place for $20 less each month. But, the pizza is better at Michigan and I used to have in-state tuition."


http://www.michigandaily.com/h ome/index.cfm?event=displayArt iclePrinterFriendly&uStory_id= 9f48b2a3-2524-4516-9442-98fe07 0442ad

BRAVO Metro! Bravo Metro! You are now a Class A Murderer! Lowell, we have enough proof that MetroDetGuy is beyond insanity! He wants to kill me! LOL!

HAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHHAHA!
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Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2762
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UMSTU, you also forget that California is home to the most expensive real estate property in the country. There is nothing "shocking" about that statistic. And oh yeah, speak like Metro, most students at Berkeley don't "live on campus." They don't have to live in university housing. Still can't neglect the fact that Berkeley is much cheaper in tuition than Michigan.
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Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2728
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.154.54.153
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And California (especially Southern) has a low cost of living, right Ltorivia? Same with Chicago, right? And how about those Berkeley dorm costs?

Now trying posting more links that are unrelated to your erroneous claims. Maybe you'll get lucky and no one will actually click on them. Maybe you'll get really lucky and find some people that have the same type of comprehension and honesty problems as you. And surely ESPN and Fox Sports has something to go with your CSTV "source"?

You know all about these links:

http://www.detroit.k12.mi.us/i ndex.shtml

http://www.michigancitizen.com /

http://www.northwestern.edu/

By the way, the term "preaching to the choir" would mean that we are in agreement, which is not at all the case. Please please hit the books instead of wasting time on this forum. God knows you need it.

Hip hip hooray!
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Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2729
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.154.54.153
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keeping digging your own grave of credibility Ltorivia.

1. Ann Arbor is also home to some of the most expensive real estate in Michigan. Of course that doesn't matter, only in California's case right?

2. Most (residential) schools (generally) require freshmen to live in the dorms (unless commuting from home or other special circumstances). I stated that most upperclassmen at most schools live off campus. You seem to have made up yet another erroneous claim about that situation at Berkeley.
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Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2763
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So nice of you to AVOID THE ARTICLE STATING THAT ANN ARBOR HAS A HIGH COST OF LIVING. Metro you are in full D-E-N-I-A-L. But wait! Michigan is affordable for everyone. No inflation whatsoever! Everybody can attend and leave debt-free!

Please, Chicago is like Detroit when it comes to standard of living. I have a job during the school year so I never have to worry about money. Try living in Washington D.C. for the summer! This place will definitely make your eyes roll (or faint)! You haven't seen nothing!
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Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2764
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Ann Arbor is also home to some of the most expensive real estate in Michigan. Of course that doesn't matter, only in California's case right?

Puh-lease. Ann Arbor is overpriced and students cannot afford it. Michigan as a whole is an affordable place to live. At least most of California costs the same regardless whether you're in Southern Cal or Northern Cali (San Fran area).

2. Most (residential) schools (generally) require freshmen to live in the dorms (unless commuting from home or other special circumstances). I stated that most upperclassmen at most schools live off campus. You seem to have made up yet another erroneous claim about that situation at Berkeley.

Huh? I said that most students at Berkeley don't live in undergraduate housing. How does that conflict with what you said previously? Again, someone has comprehension problems.

God, save me from the wretched soul called MetroDetGuy!
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Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2731
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.154.54.153
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia, from the top, please address points 1-10 (along with your latest erroneous claims). Go!
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Umstucoach
Member
Username: Umstucoach

Post Number: 65
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't forget it, but I'm still amazed considering the only school that comes close to that in the Bay Area is SF State, but it is still over 3,000 less. UCSF, USF, and Stanford are all less.

Oh well, I'll let you knuckleheads duke it out...like Barry Bonds said, "I'm tired"
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Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2765
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.17.38.195
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UMSTU, you will realize that Metro will never ever back down on a fight. He's a Know-It-All. I consider him the worst member on this forum. I have better relations with Livernois than this punk black conservative named MetroDetGuy. (And believe me, not many people here like him). Yea, he's worse than Karl. And that's a hard feat to beat!
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Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2732
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 75.0.89.208
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia, you really, really should be studying or going to class.
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Swiburn
Member
Username: Swiburn

Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 35.10.67.132
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have often heard (and also at this website, the comment that the Univ. of Michigan could go private to raise more money. That will not happen- the state constitution mandates a "University 'of' Michigan" and branches. There were once branches of the U.of M in Albion and other cities.
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Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2799
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.21.35.235
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia...

Why do you even bother to argue with Metrosexual? You know that you can never win since he knows EVERYTHING. Dont let your hair fall out becuase of him/her. I'm inclined to think he a spoiled rotten lil girl cause he bicker like a one treying to get attention(No offense to the women on the forum intended).When he/she/it can engage in a decent exchange with out resorting to his two favorite words of the week (disingenious and erroneous) then MAYBE he/she/it can engage in an intelligent debate.

But for now let Discuss Detroit's version of KKKarl and CraigD continue to argue with himself, you stated your point and proved it WELL (Not to mention backed it up with facts, stats, and evidence, while they offered nothing but childish rants)...

Keep doing what you do...
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Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2824
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 70.237.162.213
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit Lyin, tell us again how you compared yourself to Generals such as Eisenhower, Franks, Bradley, Patton, etc.

And tell us again about your other bogus military claims (trying to back up Rasputin's race war sniper training school claims).

And tell us again about your bogus military history claims..."Eisenhower fought in a conflict prior to attending West Point"..."POW Spicher was prompty returned from Iraq after the Gulf War", "Iraq didn't do anything wrong", "US pilots shot down Iraqi jets firing on them in the no-fly-zone", etc.

Also please feign some outrage at someone questioning the validity of your claims of military service while you mock the service of others (comparing it to a video game).

And don't forget to throw in some name-calling, sexual comments, and threats as part of your "decent exchange" and "intelligent debate".

You are a PHONY.
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Quinn
Member
Username: Quinn

Post Number: 828
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow...this is cool...I'm not the only one! Awesome!

m
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The_aram
Member
Username: The_aram

Post Number: 5011
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.124.8
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:


But for now let Discuss Detroit's version of KKKarl and CraigD continue to argue with himself, you stated your point and proved it WELL (Not to mention backed it up with facts, stats, and evidence, while they offered nothing but childish rants)...



Apparently you missed the posts where I pointed out that the "proof" Ltorivia posted was in fact useless links that had little to do with the argument at hand.

At no point was she able to adequately prove her point with reliable, relevant source material. Her bias shows. It's a shame, really, that someone who goes to one of the finest universities in the country can't formulate a basic argument.
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Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2830
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.221.68.144
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny that there was no mention by Ltorivia, Detroit Lying, etc of U of M recently following several of the Ivy's lead in offering financial aid packages that replace loans with grants to lower income students. Only a handful of schools in the country have these kinds of aid packages.

And very ironic that Quinn post something about being suburban, White, and gay, considering that those characteristics were his original claims about himself.

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