  Planner_727 Member Username: Planner_727 Post Number: 9 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 24.33.241.132 |
Several times in the past months and year, the possibiltiy of redeveloping a cleared Tiger Stadium site with big box stores has been discussed in the media. Personally, the idea repulses me for many reasons, one being that ample land is available elsewhere in that area that removes most 'advantages' of redeveloping the Tiger Stadium site. It is akin to the WalMart visible from the top of the temple at Chitchen-Itza (sp?). As an urban planner, my profession often grapples with environmental and economic justice. I interpret this to include making core services and amenities available to all, regarless of location/income/situation. This leads to the issue of big box retailers in inner cities. They bring with them a significant number of low-wage jobs, which are often filled by lower-income residents. In addition, they provide low-price goods and services that otherwise would only be reachable by venturing a considerable distance out of the City. Further inflaming this issue is the lack of reliable transportation for City residents. Without rambling on too much more or stating any more generalities... This brings me to my question: Do big box retailers have a place in the City Limits? If yes, where, which ones, how many, and under what conditions? (Message edited by Planner_727 on July 21, 2006) | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 379 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
Absolutely, anyone, anywhere outside the Boulevard. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
If the retailers structures are tied into the environment, I see no reason why they cannot exist. Kmart on Market in Philadelphia is situated in an historic structure and looks fine while providing retail at the lower end. Best Buy in Baltimore utilizes a new structure along with other retail that ties into the Inner Harbor feel. The big box is fine. The big parking lot in front of it is not conducive to a city. Just my opinion. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 39 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Kmart in City Center is a historic Structure?? Can you elaborate please? Why? | ||
Planner_727 Member Username: Planner_727 Post Number: 18 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 24.33.241.132 |
Maybe I should re-state my intentions. I guess I was thinking more about the traditional big-box, with parking out front. There are numerous examples of Target stores in center cities located in multiple-story facilties with indoor parking and multi-level shopping areas. Where and how should these types of stores be integrated into the City of Detroit? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 40 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Big Boxes should be put in places close to where peopole live, and where there are tracts of open land large enough to support them. The selected areas should also have access to [ublic transportation so that both workers and shoppers can use this service. Since these will be in urbanized areas, parking needs will be less than in suburban ones. Stores should be built near the street, and doors located in a spot that is accessible from both the sidewalk and the parking lot. In some cases these stores could be grouped together, with shared parking structures. I would not build these downtown. Downtown does not have the ability to support stores. Neighborhoods have larger populations and better access to suburban neighborhoods. It will be years before major shopping is viable downtown. Downtown should concentrate on basics such as food, and lower end retail such as Od Navy. High end stuff has been tried and has failed misrably. I would like to buy underwear some day without driving to the suburbs. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4620 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.98.87 |
Too many big stores in the suburbs. especially the competitive ones can sometimes closed down within 10 years depending the competitive low prices and customer confidence and courtasy. Take The first ever super K-Mart in Dearborn for example. When it opened in 1994 customers from mile around shop there along came Sam's Club next door. It too opened in 1994 to compete with Super K. Two years later Sam's Club closed down and it building still up for sale for 12 years. Service Mechandise closed down in 1998. Builder's Square next to Sam's Club merged with HQ and it closed down in late 1990's. Wal-Mart's everyday low prices cause Super K in Dearborn to shut it's doors in 2004. Now the former Super K' Building is still up for sale ever since it's closed down. It amazing that Big Box superstores buy up to 25 acres of land, make a huge parking lot, and install their superbrick fortress. but the superfortresses of hold off against other barbaric corporate companies and one of them will come tumbling down. Leaving it a eyesore for years to come. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4024 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.197.17.207 |
There are PLENTY of places in Detroit for BigBox retailers. And as Focus said, that is the majority of the city outside of the boulevard. | ||
Illwill Member Username: Illwill Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.194.123.139 |
The City of Chicago is challanging most big box stores, specifically Target and Walmart to pay their employees a livable wage or to hit the burbs. This will be done by vote and is expected to pass. Chicago is such a pro-active city and I assure you that Target and Walmart will increase the hourly wages because they make a ton of money in the city. Chicago is also aware that the samll businessman can always make up for their loss. I agree with the proposal...everyone should be able to make some kind of living off a full-hard days work. http://new.dealerscope.com/ene ws/fullStory.bsp?sid=32032&var =story | ||
Michael Member Username: Michael Post Number: 751 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.38.18.67 |
This question always makes me laugh. It is often asked as if no big box retailers exist in the city. I know it seems like that, but growing up in Warrendale, we had and still have CompUSA and Office Depot within the city limits, granted they are on the border. Danny - the Builder's Square, then HQ, then Builder's Square II then became Home Depot. It is still going strong too. However, I always like to joke with my Dearborn neighbors about their blight at Ford Road and Southfield FWY. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 151 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
detroitplanner-Kmart is on Market Street in Philadelphia in a series of historic buildings that are quite old. Until you are walking and right up on it, I personally did not even realize it was a Kmart. It is a big box store in the middle of Center City that fits right in to the surroundings--subway entrance no more than two blocks away---and tons of shoppers. They did not build a new structure but chose to incorporate their retail into the existing structures. I was impressed and still am. Hope that helps explain. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 42 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 69.215.74.162 |
I've been to the store, it seemed like any other K-mart, just multi storied with entrances to City Center Mall. I agree that it fits well there, and there should be more stores like that one. K-mart also put similar stores in places like Manhatten with market purchases on the lowest levels so that you can buy a half gallon of milk and other stuff on your way home. I just never saw it as being an old department store that was re-used. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1713 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 134.215.223.211 |
There is a Home Depot in the former Super Kmart store on Meyers and 7 Mile. It's a lot better than what was there before (meaning before the Kmart). There is also a Super Kmart (still in operation) on Telegraph just south of 8 Mile on the site of a former golf course. There is a new Farmer Jack on E. Jefferson on a neighborhood that was cleared out through eminent domain. As Michael said, there is a CompUSA, Office Depot (or whatever name the office place is), Red Robin and Chili's on Ford Rd. just barely in the city limits, but most of these places advertise themselves as being a Dearborn store (hence the new name of the former Holiday Inn Fairlane, now Double Tree Dearborn). Most folks probably don't even realize that the stores mentioned above on Ford Rd. are in the city limits of Detroit. There are numerous locations where big box stores used to be, scattered through out the city much like many of the inner-ring suburbs have as well. I think big box can work in some places in the city limits, however the track record of the big boxes in the city doesn't seem to make courting them a wise decision. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 669 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
The Staples being built on E. Jefferson is a taste of what's to come IMO. I think E. Jefferson will see a big box boom in the next 5 years due to all the downtown and riverfront projects. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Target on E. Jefferson in the next 5 years. Chances are they will all have large parking lots like Farmer Jack too. With current zoning codes and lack of rapid transit not much else can be expected, which is too bad. Farmer Jacks parking lot is usually only 1/4 to 1/3 full on a busy Sat. afternoon. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1647 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
L.A. of the Rust Belt, here we come! | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 671 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
We're pretty much there Danindc! Minus, the ocean, the weather, the Hollywood, hmm what else. Well really Detroit is and will continue to remain very different but the built environment is likely to become more and more sprawling and suburban whether we like it or not. Mass transit and a development slow down on the exurban fringe could change that but I wouldn't put my money on it. On the plus side I think some of Detroit's neighborhoods will be rebuilt quite nicely, but the retail on the big thoroughfares will likely be very big and gaudy and suburban. Maybe if we're lucky E. Jefferson could be like Woodward in OC (8 mile to Birmingham) but not likely. It seems to me that the cool small businesses do better in older buildings in the funkier retail districts in the city. Since most of E. Jefferson is plowed down, the new buildings will likely accomodate mostly chains. Just my 2 cents. Correct me if I'm wrong. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1721 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.217.81.166 |
I have to agree with Eastsidedog that E. Jefferson, save the area between Chalmers & Altar, has gone to strip mall hell. I think momentum has swung in the strip mall/big box favor to the point that there can be no return to the traditional streetfronts of those on the far eastern edge near Altar. Woodward and Michigan can remain solidly traditional storefronts and Grand River in some places as well. We'll see what happens to the rest of the city. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 746 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.209.182.243 |
Part of me is gratified to see retail development on Jefferson, but the strip models were not appropriate for the river front area; hopefully the area will be sufficiently succcessful in 20 years that some of those centers can come down. I wonder why they can't put the parking in the rear as you are seeing in some new developments along Woodward in the suburbs. Otherwise, there are a ton of major roads in the city that are appropriate places for big box retailing. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 397 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
Goddamnit, I can't believe the stupid f-ing Staples has come up again. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4029 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.197.28.123 |
Wait, how is strip-mall use not suited for current East Jefferson Avenue on the Far Eastside, Ray? If that usage is not suited there, I guess it's not suited for anywhere in the city. | ||
Ericdfan Member Username: Ericdfan Post Number: 121 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.41.116.2 |
I heard that wal mart bought either the old sams club or kmart in dearborn with plans to turn it into one of their own... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2565 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.90.94 |
Lmichigan, between Dickerson and Alter Road (about a 1 mile stretch), there are no strip malls, and the old retail strip is still relatively densely intact (and close to Jefferson), with few demolitions. So any strip malls in that area would mean wholesale demolition of entire blocks of existing (and often very attractive) structures. |
