  Rms Member Username: Rms Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 141.210.38.112 |
Would it work? In all of the prior messages where I've read folks dreams and ideas for re-use of the MCS train depot, I don't think I've ever seen this idea. In the online Freep today, in the "Reader Discussion" section on the right, there was a link to post thoughts to the question, "What do you love about your city?" Amidst all of the usual this or that city sucks comments, a couple sections of one guys comments caught my attention. ------------------------------ ------------------- "The Train Depot is a perfect location for a new convention center for Detroit. It could be, the nicest convention facility in the nation, the only one with to house a media super center state of the art broad cast center, and perhaps a journalism school for Wayne State. It could host the International Auto show and house GM's heritage collection. Maybe if GM makes some more money this year they can kick in. Cobo could be useful as an enclose shopping mall with a winter garden, it would make money, its the perfect size, plenty of parking, and a location with allure for tourists and people from Canada, I'd be surprised if Taubman hasn't thought of it? The State should just kick in some money to redevelop the Michigan Central Depot, this should be a top priority now. The train depot could become high profile residential/retail/office/conv ention center complex as a catalyst for the west river area. Here's what could be done to make it happen. Envision the restored Train Depot as a media super complex with all Detroit's media having offices in a central state fo the art broadcast facility, with the lower level as the new convention center to host the Internationl Auto Show and house GM's heritage collection. How to finance it? Easy. Get a big mall developer like Taubman to takeover Cobo Hall and turn it into Cobo Mall, its the perfect size and location for an upscale mall jsut live McArthur Center in Norfolk, VA. adding a Winter Garden facing Hart Plaza and the Detroit's new dock. Use the revenue from the Cobo conversion to help pay off the Train Depot redevelopment. Bring in a big home developer like Pulte to build gated communities around the center city with a devlopment company set up to build Charter schools and run them. Make downtown a really nice place. The new residents to the gated neighborhood could pay for a bond issue as part of their community fee to build the 1st class charter school, parkways, landscape, just like they do in the Villages, Florida. Build a section of large 10,000 square foot residences as spec homes downtown around some of the stadium area. Make colonial style all brick offices for law firms along Woodward to give Detroit a clean historic look. These little things will produce big things. The key is to build nice expensive homes and colonial brick offices to jump start the cities image at the street level to complement the great stuff Detroit already has." ------------------------------ ------------------- Interesting to me is that our mayor has also wanted a newer expanded convention center. There is certainly land around the old depot. Could that structure reasonably be folded into a larger convention center development there? This guy's idea even deals with what to do with what would then be un-used Cobo space? http://freep.typepad.com/comme nts/2006/07/lovemyhome.html | ||
Rms Member Username: Rms Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 141.210.38.112 |
Oops, I accidentally pasted one (of many) more paragraph of the blogger's post, which had nothing to do with ideas for MCS. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 393 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
Yeah right. I don't know, but I highly doubt the floor plan is large enough to house even a small convention. Conventions require massive, single-story halls with extremely high ceilings. If the idea is to tear down the MCS to build a convention center (which it doesn't state), then maybe...but still, it's in the middle of freaking nowhere, who is going to book a convention there? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1646 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Please tell me no one is taking that guy's ideas seriously. Gated communities of Pulte homes downtown? Turning Cobo into a shopping mall? Spec 10,000 sf houses? Colonial architecture? Sheesh! | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 613 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.246.10.173 |
they would have to build a campus around it... not tear it down. There is not much going on with the land over there anyway other than some of the neighborhoods.. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1720 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 134.215.223.211 |
Daindc, to answer your question: the comments were in the Freep Reader Comments section. If you though DetroitYES! was bad, just check out the crazy, worthless drivel that gets put there. No offense to Rms, but I don't even know why Rms bothers reading it. I don't know anyone who reads it, let alone takes it serious. | ||
Rms Member Username: Rms Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 141.210.38.112 |
Slow day at work. I'm surprised I haven't read the labels on the cleaning products in our kitchen. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 155 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.141.144.2 |
if i had unlimited money - with my already fierce love for the city, i would do this... this problem would be this... where would you put a convention center in MCS? you'd need to HEAVILY overhaul to structure to (a) make the bottom few floors able to bare greater weight, and (b) make the bottom few floors say, 4 times the floor space... capable of holding a show of the size of the detroit auto show... and (c) you'd have to have some serious ass freight elevators installed... is this possible? maybe... even though COBO would be MUCH better used as an urban mall type of place maybe finally say goodbye to the JOE! [thank god] i just don't think it would be practical to convert MCS into anything, let alone a convention center... especially with all the deterioration in there at this point... last time I was there (during a rain storm) the top three floor's staircases were WATERFALLS... | ||
Rms Member Username: Rms Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 141.210.38.112 |
To Danindc, yes I didn't like that paragraph about the Pulte homes either.....you'll see my "oops" post immediately after the first one. I realize that the structure as it is is not large enough for the ground floor convention space. But the land seems to be around there. And for a combo convention/confernce space you'd have plenty of hotel space above in the existing building. It is a bit out of the CBD.....again the problem of our lost transit system that once upon a time connected MCS to the CBD. It isn't that far out distance wise. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 163 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 12.45.2.184 |
Focus....It's really not in the middle of nowhere. There are three freeways (I-75/I-96 and the Lodge) less than 2 miles of the MCS. But given the footprint of Cobo, there still isn't enough room for a convention center unless you tear down MCS, and Roosevelt park. Nice idea but not enough room, plus I wouldn't tear down MCS for that. As far as Cobo, I think that if you replace it and move it from the river the city shouldn't build another building there they should just open the space for a ublic park. The real estate value for W. Jefferson would go through the roof.313 | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 40 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.54.213.11 |
Could you build the exhibition halls out in the old rail yards, and use the station structure public areas as a galleria type mall (like Washington Union Station did with their old concourse) and the tower as a hotel? | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1722 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.137.27 |
The best chance for a MCD renovation would have occurred if MGM Grand Casino had used it for their permanent casino. They have the money to do the needed renovations. Who else has $750 million to renovate or build anything here in Detroit? No chance in hell that the MCD will ever be renovated. BTW, I like the idea of converting Cobo Hall into a mall. With rooftop and underground parking and nearly a million square feet of space, Cobo would be a great location for a downtown mall. So, where does a convention center go? It goes where the casinos were going to go along the riverfront. Clearly the area south of Atwater should continue to develop according to current plans. However, much of the riverfront north of Atwater has no set plans. It's not too late to consider moving Cobo to an area east of Rivard, south of Woodbridge, and north of Atwater. The train station and the Packard plants are two structures in Detroit, that will probably never be torn down in my lifetime(about 40 years left). Add these to the likes of the Greek Acropolis and Roman Coliseum. Wow, just think of the tourists dollars that will roll in. (Message edited by royce on July 24, 2006) | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 741 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.209.182.243 |
I don't have any idea if the facility can be used for conventions, but with respect to the observation that it is too far away, Chicago's convention center is as far from its downtown (or farther) than the MCD is from downtown Detroit. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 398 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
When I said "middle of nowhere" I didn't mean far from downtown. I meant sitting in the middle of urban prairie and dead train yards. Not quite the flash of McCormick Place, despite it's own distance from downtown and proximity to some of the not-so-nice neighborhoods in Chicago. For all the revival going on in Corktown, the MCS still sits in the middle of nowhere. Disagree if you will, but I don't see tons of convention bookings for that site. | ||
Planner_727 Member Username: Planner_727 Post Number: 19 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 24.33.241.132 |
I don't think that would be such a crazy idea. Two options would be one, build it underground, like where the platforms are (not sure the space would be anything close to the 1 million needed), or two, use the area to the east  . Less than 30 homes displaced, the old DPS book building, the St Vincent HS, but 35 acres of adjacent land (COBO now is on about 22 by my best measurement). Besides, creating a link of some sort between there and Campus Martius (I know we're out of the trolley business, but the people mover is still running!) could really liven up that corridor and perhaps bring a more historically sensitive user to Tiger Stadium. | ||
Pdtpuck Member Username: Pdtpuck Post Number: 135 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 208.251.168.194 |
know when all of this will happen?......  | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 55 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
you know what would happen if this gets built here? Historic housing would get ripped down for parking lots and these would be empty most of the time. I think we should wait until the convention facilities that the Casinos are building open up. This should help relieve some of the Auto Show pressure from COBO. Heck there is no reason why they can't make some interior changes to Cobo to link the riverfront ballrooms on the main level with the main hall and use that for additional floor space during the autoshow as well. There are tons of improvements that can be made to COBO, I'd like to see the lower level be used for restraunts similar; but better than the VU; this would benefit the people who walk the riverwalk and create a Navy Pier-esque sort of atmosphere. Detroit is broke. The suburbs are not going to kick in any more for a new convention facility. Part of the deal for the new casino was to build their own convention facilities on-site, they will not kick into this as it may take business away from them. We need to take the Pdpuck's pig's ear and turn it into a silk purse with this one. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 180 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 24.247.163.145 |
Highly doubt anything that people dream about will happen to MCS. Although, it's still possible for it to be renovated into something, just not a convention center. But at least it has a ton of underground parking! | ||
Michikraut Member Username: Michikraut Post Number: 169 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 217.232.89.3 |
I´ve always wondered about this possiblity too: Don´t know the main floor plan of the MCS, but after seeing the new and well recieved convention hall in Leipzig and Munchen, I think there must be possibilities. For they are both curved glass roofed halls: looking remarkably similar to glass covered boarding areas of main train terminals. The tall office portion could remain just that offices- for administration, security, first aid, and whatever and then in the old trainyards-the large covention halls. Though now looking at the map- there is not as much room back there as I thought without building over the freeway or having to build a hall to the side of the tower. Though I would think developers and city planners would have thought of these possibilities so must be other reasons for not doing it. | ||
Mattric43 Member Username: Mattric43 Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.15.7.70 |
This could be a big redevelopement for both retail and Residential property. The main and possibly a few lower floors could be used for retail space and resturants space. Then above could be apartments excluding the top or top few floors, that could be Penthouses. This could be just like the village at grand traverse commons. The redevelopement of the Traverse City State Hospital. www.thevillagetc.com | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7617 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
One thing people are forgetting. Manny Maroun owns the place. | ||
Mattric43 Member Username: Mattric43 Post Number: 15 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.15.7.70 |
RMS quoted: I realize that the structure as it is is not large enough for the ground floor convention space. But the land seems to be around there. And for a combo convention/confernce space you'd have plenty of hotel space above in the existing building. I agree but the addition to the back or sides or both of the building for the convention center would have to be partitioned in the existing structure for obvious reasons and that may discourage event holders, however it may be good that there can be multiple smaller events going on at the same time. | ||
Rms Member Username: Rms Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 141.210.39.101 |
If it ever gets redeveloped.....that's a big if. The one idea or opinion that seems to resurface over and over for MCS is a combination of retail and residential. I just threw this convention center idea out there as one that I hadn't recalled hearing before. JT1, I know that Manny Maroun owns the place. But he also owned it when the mayor was tossing around the idea of moving the police headquarters or jail??? over there. It would seem that some political clout, or a developer with enough cash could get a project moving. I've also heard talk of the need for retail on other threads. Would a mall work? Where would you put one? I think someone suggested that once MGM casino moves that their temporary space would make a nice mall location. This guy's idea of a Cobo Mall also made a lot of sense to me. It's in the heart of the business district where most of our out of towners end up. It's on the People Mover line. Lot's of people come down for riverfront activities, and shopping would then be nearby. | ||
Mattric43 Member Username: Mattric43 Post Number: 16 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.15.7.70 |
As far as the Cobo Mall, Kwame has always stated he would not allow a mall in the city because it is a haven for crime. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3546 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.38.202 |
Maroun has the clout and the cash and from what we've seen he'll use the former to make more of the latter. | ||
Beware_of_doug Member Username: Beware_of_doug Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 68.113.245.128 |
Spend big bucks on a convention center in the MCD when there is a rotting heap of building right where people would rather be at the Ford Auditorium site? I would think retrofitting the MCD for that use would be very cost-prohibitive. Although I'd love to see the building reused, this may not be the answer. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1233 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.130.18.100 |
let Manny renovate it into office space for non-profit organizations - I'm sure he could use the tax credit |
