  586luvfor313 Member Username: 586luvfor313 Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 209.64.87.68 |
What to do with old neighborhoods? I wanted to get everyone's input or thoughts. What would make the most sense with regards to Future Development for Van Dyke from Harper to 6 Mile?. Please consider that this area is and was a mix of mostly residential, some industrial and off course numerous cemeteries. A great deal of the housing has been torn down and only bare lots remain. How would you develop this area if given the opportunity? Wouldn't it make more sense to develop it as an industrial area? Very close to freeways, existing factories, airport and railroads would make it an ideal area. But then realistically, most of us know that Industry will not be what it use to be and there is no way we can get an industrial corridor to fill up all that area. Then you look at rebuilding the area to once again being mostly residential. The problem with that, is most potential homeowners want to have safe neighborhoods, good schools and businesses to meet your needs. I don't see this happening... especially when we are still trying to resolve these issues in our Downtown revitalization. Realistically, even if property was given to someone for free to use for farming, you might run into problems with land being contaminated from years of use and abuse. Use of Land for airport, would have been ideal. But due to all of the other surrounding communities and existing neighborhoods in Detroit, it would have never have worked. Post 9-11 has shown us that we still have capacity at Metro Airport and that we can't sustain a second airport. Not being a smart ass, what about a cemetery district for Metro Detroit. I live in Macomb Township and there is no reason for us to build cemeteries on 26 mile or in Novi, when we have all of this open area in Detroit being unused. Is that a possibility? Can we get a metropolitan area moratorium on new cemeteries. Could Metro Detroit sustain a Amusement Park? If so, wouldn't it make more sense to be on the water or on Bell Isle? The only reason I say amusement park is, the property owner would need to be able to make money off their investment. If it was a city park, we would never be able to charge admission. Bell Isle is a great example of that. Would a Golf Course(Resort Style Community) ever make it within the City of Detroit? Imagine a TPC type course and Resort right off 94. Your 10 minutes or less from Downtown, Casinos, Sports and Water. The resort area would include condo's or single family homes in gated and secure community. Granted the areas around there at current condition would make selling process to potential homeowners very difficult and you still have to address schools, safety, service needs. I know I'm dreaming, but just imagine if you do a combination of all idea listed above. The city would dispose of unused property. You would be able to collect Taxes on some properties. Depending on use of property, you would eliminate some or most need for city and state governments to fix roads, sewers, garbage collection and snow removal. It's just a dream. Here's a picture of area using Terra Server. http://terraserver.microsoft.c om/image.aspx?T=4&S=13&Z=17&X= 208&Y=2935&W=1&qs=8158+dobel%7 cdetroit%7cmi%7c&Addr=8158+Dob el+St%2c+Detroit%2c+MI+48234-3 916&ALon=-83.0207420&ALat=42.4 165560 | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7601 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Ignored after this statement. I think you should also consider sending your poorest residents to other communites as well. Maye we can make the city a landfill so you don't have to deal with trash. Maybe you guys should quit building homes on 26 Mile Road so our region doesn't keep expanding. Have you started looking for your future home yet. I'm sure there will be new subdivisions going up on 40 mile road once your infrastructure gets a little dated. | ||
Missnmich Member Username: Missnmich Post Number: 530 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.32.180.75 |
586luvfor313, Don't be put off by the anti-suburban bias on this forum. Your ideas are worth discussing. The anti-suburban elitism on this site is as ridiculous and counter productive as the suburban bias against Detroit. Welcome to the forum! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7604 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
What is humorous about the post above is that area - well pretty desolate and in need of help still probably has a higher density of residents per square mile than Macomb Township. I guess people only count if they have a yard that is at least 1-2 acres. Below is a link of a street in Macomb Township from a few years back. Look at all that room. We should have moved all of our graves, garbage and homeless there. I mean look at all that room. The existing residents can deal with it since there is open land http://terraserver.microsoft.c om/image.aspx?T=4&S=13&Z=17&X= 213&Y=2953&W=1&qs=Bailey+Drive %7cMacomb+Township%7cMichigan% 7c&Addr=Bailey+Dr%2c+Macomb%2c +MI+48044&ALon=-82.9346636&ALa t=42.6713678 | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7605 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Missn - My comments weren't anti-suburbs. My comments were addressing his ridiculous comments and his 'ideas' that are condescending as shit. This "The resort area would include condo's or single family homes in gated and secure community" comes off as a wonderful comment to people that live in the city. If you don't see the shitty tone of his post then you and I are reading it very differently. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7606 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
586 - I will try to tone it down in the future as I am sure you are interested in seeing the city improve but this post just struck a bad nerve with me. Hope that I don't chase you off. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1742 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.152.173 |
Expanding City Airport to accept 737 jets is the best solution for this area. Detroit needs a Chicago Midway type airport. The city has to find a way to quell the objections of the surrounding suburbs and reach some agreement so that an expanded City Airport can happen. The idea of using the area for cemetaries is not viable. Once the land is deeded for that purpose, the land is lost forever. Some industrial use could exist along with an expanded City Airport since the I-94 freeway is right there. 586luv, there's nothing wrong with dreaming but when you dream anything regarding improving Detroit, there are so many obstacles. Historians 500 years from now will cite Detroit as the first of the great 20th century American cities to become a "ghost city" because it's community could never agree on how to solve it's own problems for the benefit of everyone in the community. I'm sure some historians have already begun that conversation. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2017 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
The bigger question is what are you going to do in Macomb township in 25 years when it looks like that corner of Detroit? What happens when Gas costs over $10 a gallon? When water and electric are 4 or 5 times the price it currently is. How will you afford the upkeep on a 3500 Sq.Ft. Mcmansion with such outrageous utility bills? How will you support the sprawl when %80 of the population is retired and all the kids have moved to more sustainable higher density communities? How are you going to repair the thousands of miles of road? How are you going to afford the upkeep on the sprawling water and sewer lines? The decay you see in that corner of Detroit knows no boundaries. It's already moved into the inner ring suburbs. It will continue outward leaving small pockets of high quality housing in tact. The rest suffering from the same issues that have plaqued Detroit. | ||
586luvfor313 Member Username: 586luvfor313 Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 209.64.87.68 |
I was somewhat amazed how people are so quick to attack someone just asking for other opinions? God Forbid anyone ask for others ideas no matter how far fetched they maybe to you. That is the way ideas are generated. Just because you don't live in the City doesn't mean you shouldn't care for the city or worry about what happens in the city. I love the city, so god forbid I care. I know that part of the Detroit Problem, is the fact that people live in BFE. But that's part of the problem, not the entire problem. Its funny how my ideas were some how demeaning to city. How could an idea to use land that isn't being utilized to its fullest potential be demeaning? I wasn't proposing to build a fence and moat around the city. I was just asking for peoples thoughts? I wasn't attacking anyone or trying to put down anyone, by any means. If your going to attack me for asking for others thoughts or so called DAYDREAMS, why don't you propose solutions for current problems that exist in those areas that could use development? Problems like schools, crime and businesses in neighborhoods to fulfill resident's needs. By proposing a Cemetery Section, or Golf Resort or Amusement Park, these are ideas outside of norm. Factories and Subdivisions have been brought up by everyone and aren't always the solution. 50 years ago, I don't think many of us would have thought that people would be building entire cities like Phoenix in Desert. I wish I could have been the fool that proposed an idea like that!!! Lastly, your attitude of "If you don't live in Detroit, don't worry about Detroit" doesn't help any in resolving our problems. Just because I live in BFE, I still think about how we (Metro Detroiters) can work together to make Detroit a better Detroit. I only want what's best for the City. I guess we might as well call Roger Penske and Blame him for the downfall of Detroit because he has a mansion somewhere in Oakland County. No one is telling him to take his hopes and dreams for the city and GTF out of the D!!! Granted, we all don't have money or resources like him to solve the problems METRO DETROIT has, we still have thoughts and would like to be part of solution. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7608 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
It isn't that only Detroiters can help Detroit. Many outside the city are great assets to the city and do a heck of a lot of good. The problem is that your ideas assume that the area can just be used a dumping ground for cemetaries or anything else that requires land while we are developing areas further and further out. How about we establish a green space around metro Detroit and stop the outward building. How about we look at common infrastructure dollars so older communities are not put at a disadvantage after people use the are then leave. How about we address zip code based insurance rates in the state. Knocking down those two issues would make Detroit much more finacncially attractive to people considering the city. That may hit you and others on 26 in the pocketbook so my money is that you are not willing to support those suggestions. How about group shelters and half way houses are distributed evenly across the region. How about homeless shelters being distributed evenly across the region. Let's look at the structural costs that Detroit and older communities face and the inequeity of the burden that they deal with when it comes to the homeless. That suggestions however may mean that there would be a small sacrifice on the part of the entire region. Is it something that you would support? | ||
586luvfor313 Member Username: 586luvfor313 Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 209.64.87.68 |
Ndavies -In response to your post. I don't know how I'm going to solve those problems with Macomb Twp in 30 years!!!! Its not US AGAINST THEM attidue I or anyone else want to hear. What you consider to be your problem, will become my problem according to you. The way I currently see it, Detroits Problems are not just Detroits Problems. It's everyone that lives in Metro Detroit problems, becuase were all part of Detroit. Is it me or is that Detroiters no matter wher your from(Oakland, Wayne or Macomb) no matter if your Black or White, we are so fast to attack and blame others? This thread wasn't started as an attack or to blame anyone for the problems we currently have. We need to stop blaming others and try to solve our problems. This is why Metro Detroit has the probelms we do. Quick to blame , yet not willing to sit down and figure out what we can do to fix!!! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7610 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
One fix is to run away from the problems and move to a newer area with newer infrastructure (paid by everyone) and cheaper taxes. Sorry, cheap shot but the outward migration is killing Detroit, Warren, Grosse Pointe, Roseville, Sterling Heights, etc. Until we can contain the metro area or see some growth the outward migration is a root of many problems in the region, not just the city. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2018 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
My point wasn't that you should not worry about Detroit. The point was the entire region suffers from severe structural issues. If you fix the ongoing structural issues, Detroit will rebound nicely. If you don't, our children will be asking the same things of Macomb township as the sprawl puts them up in the tip of the thumb. The things that will fix Detroit are all structural. Lower taxes, Lower crime, improved schools, improved housing stocks and lower insurance rates will fix Detroit. Amateur planning exercises will not. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 3114 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.17 |
Can we play Sim City with a different area of Detroit? The identified target is already being converted into an industrial park. | ||
586luvfor313 Member Username: 586luvfor313 Post Number: 5 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 209.64.87.68 |
JT1- Finally!!!! Someone that propses solutions. I agree to looking at current problems we have. However some of your ideas don't solve the issues we currently have. You make it sound like Macomb or Oakland County don't have Halfway housing? The items we should adress is: Are current people in halfway houses in City of Detroit the reason why we have the crime problems in Detroit? If so, by moving or relaocatiing these problems to other communities, isn't solving the problem. Why are these people allowed to be on streets? Lets get someone to be held accountable for the criminals. With regards to insurance rates. Just because I live in BFE, I'm not crazy about the rates I pay. Again, your asking to shift the problem that Detroiters have to be shared by others. What we need to do is as a Metro Area satnd up and say "Insurance Companies enough is enough" and that we need all politicans to take a stance. When is the last time you Heard Detroiters ask for Macomb and Oakland County to take a stance with them on issues? We all should know that we if we work together, we have a larger voice and a better chance to get things resolved. Lastly, I would like to see a push by State to upadate and mantian the infrastucture in existing commuinites. I agree. A bridge in 25 Mile and Luchtman, shouldn't be considered a project when you have streets in city of Detroit that are worse than dirt roads in Macomb County. Thats why I love this site.. when people can discuss and not be attacked. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1188 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
"JT1- Finally!!!! Someone that propses solutions." Yup! We really need someone who propses... "Expanding City Airport to accept 737 jets is the best solution for this area. Detroit needs a Chicago Midway type airport. The city has to find a way to quell the objections of the surrounding suburbs and reach some agreement so that an expanded City Airport can happen. The idea of using the area for cemetaries..." In case nobody noticed, City Airport is dead as far as urban airports go. Various "airlines" have come and gone--note the "gone" part--due to lack of any real economic interest. Besides, people who bitch about highways and cars should surely complain about the costs in airport construction and in fuel for the aircraft. Surely, another major-league boondongle. BTW, there's no 'a' in cemetery--a DYES "most commonly" misspelled word. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on July 27, 2006) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7614 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Very fair response. As for insurance rates Hansen Clarke is trying to take on the insurance companies and I believe that Mary Waters is trying to help. You may want to contact Mr. Clarke. His big issue is zip code based rates but I believe that he is fighting to address the ridiculous rates throughout the state. In the menatime I think we need to address the inequalities from one neighborhood to another. That gives one an unfair advantage to some communities over others.
The primary problem is that much of the inequality such as infrastructure costs, costs of new roads, etc are Oakland and Macomb against Wayne. We have people like LBP pushing for 500 million to widen 75 in his county. We have Craig DeRoche pushing to abandon old infrastructure to build new roads. As he says "roads where people want to live." The halfway houses and homeless are just many areas where Detroit takes the majority of the regions ills and certainly will not get help on a regional basis. Until we can make these regional problems we will not move forward. In the meantime we have Mark Steenbergh and the OC Drain commissioner making water rates the biggest issue. We have Steenbergh talking about 'Fortress Warren' as opposed to working on improving the common borders. We have Livonia pulling out of SMART. We are building more schools and letting older communities deal with fixing the old while newer communities have palaces for schools. We have HCMA refusing to send $1 dollar to help at the fairgrounds or Belle Isle while Detroiters put $4 MM into HCMA every year. There are some areas where we are seeing improvement. Detroit and GP seem to be working very well together. Detroit and Warren are addressing how to improve the Van Dyke corridor. I don't know if that addresses all of the issues Warren has caused with the water fight and Fortress Warren comments. I think that we lost a great person with Tom Barwin leaving. The problem is that for every person that wants regional cooperation we seem to have 20 that want their city to improve even if it comes as the expense of the region. You may see Detroit as unwilling to cooperate but look no further than the Zoo fiasco. People were outraged it may close but not willing to put a penny up to fund it. That, afterall should be payed for by the city only. Look at the support for arts funding in the region. Died miserably. This region is so messed up people will not pay a dollar to support the DIA since it is managed or in Detroit. I don't see it getter better. I would propose that you address regional cooperation with your state reps and county commissioners. I will happily attend the meetings with you to see how far away the concept of regional cooperation is. In the meantime we need to get past the idea of seeing Detroit as a dumping ground for cemetaries, and address how we as a region can make the region better for all. The problem is that the ones with the least problems are the last willing to help those with the most. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7615 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
 but very true. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1743 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.152.173 |
Livernoisyard, I don't know what your "beef" is with me, but I find it interesting that you attack my suggestions for what to do with the area being discussed, yet you don't attack the person who started the thread and suggested many more things than I did. Livernoisyard, I will continue to make suggestions to improve Detroit, and your contempt for me or my suggestions won't stop me from doing so. BTW, Livernoisyard, in your haste to criticize others and correct their spelling you misspelled the word "proposes." Jt1 pointed that out in his post. So where do you get off thinking you need to correct my spelling? Do you do that for every DetroitYes! forumer? Do you correct us as a courtesy or do you do it to show us how much of an ass you can be? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1189 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Fine. But come up with the money without burdening the taxpayers in yet more boondongles. You should know that there's no need for another airport, especially on the Eastside. The free-market for that already had spoken in spades. So, is everybody supposed to meekly submit to the whims of an OP on this sacrosanct, holier-than-thou forum? | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 121 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
This post is a classic example of why things can't get done between city & suburbs. This thread has deteriorated into a bitch-fest among everybody. We have totally ignoring the "IDEAS" that was the purpose of the original poster, choosing instead to correct people's grammer or question thier commitment to Detroit. Can't understand why nothing is done regionaly... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2498 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.130 |
One peculiar thing about the Van Dyck corridor is that it is so very isolated from other areas of the east side. When CAY closed McNichols (6 Mile) for future runway expansion (never happened, but 6 Mile is still closed anyway), that meant that folks from farther east had to either go up to 7 Mile Rd., or down to Harper/I-94 to get to the Van Dyck corridor. And this corridor is also difficult to get to from the west, with all the train tracks (Dequindre Yard), and the Mound industrial corridor. One would have to go up to Davison Rd., or again down to Harper/I-94 to get to the Van Dyck corridor. A very interesting isolation indeed! | ||
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary Post Number: 19 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.250.8.50 |
One time my family and I drove on VanDyke from Harper to 8 Mile and counted something like 40 or 50 churches. Why is there so much sin with that many churches around? And another thing, those darn churches aren't paying any taxes are they? |
