  Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 260 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
I have heard stories from people who said that at one time you could not stop at red lights in Detroit due to the crime, etc. Do you any of you have any memories about the bad years of Detroit when it came to crime? Was it really that bad that you could not stop at lights. Was downtown ever ever that crime ridden that you were in danger walking downtown after 5PM or even during the day. I heard stories that people needed guards to escort them out of downtown office buildings. Is that true? Overall what was the crime issues like during Detroit's dark days. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4186 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
Come on, Mike. Let's stop the exaggeration. There were certain areas (and still are) at one time where it was best not to drive through late in the night if you were unfamiliar with the area, but let's not get so silly to imply that it was dangerous to stop at EVERY red light in Detroit at a time. (Message edited by lmichigan on August 19, 2006) | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 261 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 207.61.38.86 |
I am not saying it was. I was just wondering if there was any stories from those dark days of crime in Detroit. Just wondering. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 217 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
I have heard stories from people who said that at one time you could not buy anything on Sunday in Toronto due to something called the "Blue Laws". I wonder if anyone has any memories about the bad old days when a lot of Torontonians suffered due to the intolerance of some of their fellow citizens and legislators? Was it really that bad that you could not shop, fill your gas tank or buy a drink on Sunday in Toronto? I heard stories that people living in Toronto needed to travel to Buffalo, New York on Sundays to do the very same things they did in Toronto on Saturday. Is that true? Overall, I wonder what it was like living there during Toronto's dark days of government-imposed restrictions on businesses and consumers. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1275 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.130.18.100 |
Toronto Mike those comments come from whites who suddenly learn (without realizing it) what it feels like to be driving while black, except it's the majority community that frightens them instead of the authorities. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 730 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.246.1.166 |
This reminds me of this one story I keep hearing people (who never step foot in Detroit) tell. it goes ... "I was in Detroit one time at a stop light, and people just started surrounding my car." It always ends up with them speeding away unharmed. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 115 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Its all hogwash, only people blowing through stop signs are the cops. It was like that 30 years ago and is still like that today. BTW, Detroit has not really had dark days, just a lot of changes. There was stuff that was around 12 -15 years ago that I loved that is now long gone. But there is a lot of new stuff now. Over the last 12-15 years some neighborhoods got a lot better, but others have got worse. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 159 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.131.176.232 |
Ridiculous. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 339 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
Detroit is not as bad as many say, nor is it as peaceful as many on this site make it out to be. There are areas that I consider "unsafe", but then again there really is not a reason to venture into those areas at night. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 139 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
Sounds like another urban legend about Detroit. I think the "dark days" were in the 20's when Dr. Ossin Sweet had to defend his house from the hostile white mob outside. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1724 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.126.236 |
Once again we have the foaming at the mouth defense of any suggestion that crime might actually be a problem in Detroit. No Mike I doubt that every stop at a red light resulted in a confrontation with a criminal.But that is not to say it did not or does not happen. You mentioned in a previous thread you may be coming to Detroit.Is this about that? I have been critical of your dictates regarding mass transit.But if this is about concern for your own safety.........then do whatever makes you comfortable. If that means taking cabs or renting a car or staying the suburbs then do that.No one( that matters) will judge you and no one will think you are being unrealistic. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 262 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 67.71.48.159 |
Actually I just got back from Detroit. I took the buses, walked in downtown Detroit at night. I know crime can happen anywhere. But overall I have been to Detroit many times and know it is not as bad as people say. But walking in downtown Detroit at night and it being safe, I was just wondering if all the legends about not being able to leave an office building downtown after 6PM without guards, 20 years ago is all true. Downtown felt totally safe, and I just wonder if at any time in history it was really as bad as people made it out to be, that you could not venture out after dark downtown, etc. I am not bashing Detroit. I had a great time. But at the same time it would be interesting to hear if some of these stories are true about not being able to walk downtown after dark, etc back 20 years ago, etc. But overall I was fine in Detroit and usually am. I would not have gotten out and walked around some of the neighbourhoods I passed on the bus. But downtown was totally o.k. I just find the historical aspect interesting so I can tell how far Detroit has come in the crime front. Walking downtown I was wondering if it was always like this, or if there really was the dark days when walking downtown after sundown meant being mugged or shot, etc. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1276 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.130.18.100 |
The real violent crime problems in Detroit always have been, and continue to be, in the residential areas (and they generally aren't random - usually drug trade or domestic violence). Incidents downtown have always been few but because of the location they tend to garner the most attention. I do, however, remember a rash of carjackings that had a lot of people freaked out, hence the 'city driving' stuff even though they were occurring in suburbia, too. Either they aren't happening so much anymore or they aren't getting reported. (Message edited by lilpup on August 19, 2006) | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 974 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.212.225.187 |
'Miketoronto stated
Guess what else 'Miketoronto!'__ the Black people had tails too! go figure! super d(motordetroit) | ||
Blessyouboys Member Username: Blessyouboys Post Number: 522 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.208.126.244 |
Mike, I'm sure you could an extensive search of the news articles and police reports 15-20 years ago and come across some incidents of a lone suburban, or otherwise, visitor who was a victim of crime either waiting at a stoplight or after 5pm in a previously thought safe area. I think the larger issue is that when these incidents are reported and recorded it simply reaffirms attitudes/feelings toward the city which are already, unfortunately, held by the reader/victim etc. They'll pay more attention to the incident when/if it happens as 'proof' that it does happen just as much as they hear from their Detroit horror stories. So what i'm saying is that if people come to expect that to happen, they'll pay close attention and remember when it does. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 480 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.160.37.222 |
I see the "head in the sand" crowd is out in full force. Yes, carjackings DO occur in the city to people who are stopped for whatever reason (red light, gas station, etc.) An off-duty police officer was shot in the leg barely one week ago in an attempted carjacking at Prince Harry Drive and Chene. A few months ago, officer Charles Phipps was shot and killed in an attempted carjacking after he came to a stop in his minivan near Joy and Southfield. The men who killed him had carjacked four other people that night. It was not the first time Officer Phipps had been carjacked either, he shot and killed a carjacker while off-duty several years prior. Does this mean the average person should not stop in Detroit? Of course not, but for people like Detroitplanner and Detroitej72 to insist that Detroit never had any "dark days" or isn't experiencing current rising crime levels is just proof that they are living in a fantasy world of their own pathetic creation. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1278 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.130.18.100 |
Just an FYI, Mike, the two locations mentioned above aren't downtown i.e. the central business district or 'between the ditches.' | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 716 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.246.10.173 |
I have some white friend who venture into Detroit to do some of the dumbest shit and wonder why they get robbed or car stolen etc... Don't hang out at the crack house, dont go to raves in the middle of places you don't know about. Crime happens everywhere but damn, common sense (if there was such an item) should prevail sometimes. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 717 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.246.10.173 |
If your in the middle of a bad neighborhood and you don't feel safe, there probably is a good reason. Sow down before you come up to that red light and creep up to it.. that way you can stay alert to your surroundings... | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6285 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
What you MIGHT be thinking of, Mike, is the time when the Mayor said that if you were from the suburbs and it was late at night, and you were stopped at a traffic light with NO opposing traffic...you could treat it as a four-way stop, if you felt 'uncomfortable'. This was during the summers of 1997 and 1998...I remember getting off from a ticket crossing I-75 at John R...the Detroit cops were pissed, but when I said I was uncomfortable and treated it as a four-way stop...they knew I was quoting Archer and let me go. Now, I am no longer from the suburbs, but still follow these guidelines. I don't think his executive order has ever been rescinded...I think those things have wings until they're shot down. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2048 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.221.36.81 |
Regardless of time of day, I always take surface streets to and from downtown, which travel through good and bad neighborhoods, and I always stop at stoplights. Common sense, and having faith in the fact that random crime isn't too prevalent--and the whole world isn't after you--are keys to keeping your sanity. I figure, late at night after a game/event, why go out of my way to take a freeway? The risk of a high-speed crash with a drunk driver is probably greater than something bad happening to you as you venture home on a 35 mph surface street. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 5026 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
You have to admit, though, that it's a little freaky when you're sitting at a red light somewhere on a sidestreet in the city, and someone comes flying by you at full speed and runs the thing. It's happened to me on more occasions than I count on two hands. I'm just waiting for the day when I see a full-on collision. | ||
Jltyler Member Username: Jltyler Post Number: 282 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 69.220.63.156 |
Words to live by. Warriorfan I think you mean Prince Hall Drive, someone more royal tham Prince Harry. (Message edited by jltyler on August 20, 2006) | ||
Dfd Member Username: Dfd Post Number: 87 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 66.161.214.251 |
For what it's worth. Halloween 2003. Three of us ended up spending the night in an SUV at the firehouse parking lot at Greenfield an Fenkel. No problems. | ||
Pdtpuck Member Username: Pdtpuck Post Number: 175 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 208.251.168.194 |
detroitplanner:
Discuss please! | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 939 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.14.30.175 |
i think miketorontonot is making reference to the time where the city found itself in great financial peril, and demands were made of citizens, under martial law, to rob and steal from those not residing in detroit. the secretary of state at the time, conan loving, was having a homosexual love affair with coleman young, and the mayor compelled the secretary of state to stamp license plates with a special prefix, "cya," for detroit residents. so, if your tag wasn't "cya 123," etc., you were fair game to detroit criminals. i know this because my uncle, odell jefferson, was a member of local #522 IBOSS (international brotherhood of stereo stealers.) he told us about how if you didn't steal for the mayor, to support the tax base, nobody who sold fried chicken would let you eat. it was a terrible time. drugs were sold to suburbanites to ruin their families and careers, and women were ordered into prostitution, thereby spreading disease and scandal in an effort to weaken detroit's neighboring communities. if a prostitute caught a suburbanite with penicillen, they were shot immediately. also, the city put lsd in the detroit zoo water tower to create disruption in the suburbs. | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 1072 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.176.44 |
i blew two lights yesterday afternoon. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1747 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
This thread is full of delusional rationalization. You might as well actually get an answer to your question. Twenty years ago downtown was still on its downward spiral. If you want to hear stories about crime, talk to the people who worked or owned property downtown then, ie: nobody on this forum. I was talking to one landlord not too long ago who had story after story about muggings, car thefts, break-ins, assaults, etc right on Woodward where Merchant's Row is now. My father and grandfather had their offices in the Kales building until the mid-80's. A woman was raped in an elevator there one evening, and later someone else was held up and murdered in the parking garage under GCP. So yeah, it was bad - much worse than now for sure. These are the same years that some neighborhoods were completely decimated due to the drug trade, and this was certainly a spinoff of that. HOWEVER. It was not a situation where nobody could stop at a red light, and people always needed to be escorted by security after hours (although sometimes women would be, just as they were at my college in Boston). Those actions did happen, but of course those are the stories you hear now, not any "business as usual" ones. The real reason people blew (and blow) red lights in Detroit is because sometimes there is just no traffic anywhere around, not to mention any police enforcement. So why waste your time waiting? And this:
is hands-down the stupidest thing I have ever read. "This is what it feels like to be singled out as a minority, except instead of the threat of being harrassed you have the thread of being robbed or killed." Please. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
I believe it was the car jackings that prompted the don't stop at red lights for more than a second period. That was a new and real personal attack that hit people where they thought they felt comfortable. In the old days, they used to hang people that stole horses. These days, you get a slap on the wrist. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 108 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.217.174.219 |
I'd hardly call any of this exaggerations. I remember my dad telling me stories of when his high school took a trip to Detroit (for I can't remember what) and they stayed at the SHERATON Book Cadillac. Went out with their varsity jackets on to walk a few blocks to wherever they were going and heard gun shots from around the corner and soon after a ratty-looking man running with a pair of new shoes in his hands. Is this a true story, or one of those fallacies that people love to dwell in to illustrate the extremity of a city? I'm thinking more the latter which is why what Mike is saying has evolved from some little man from the suburbs traveling down 3rd street in the 70s, was stopped at a stop light and some bum went limping by his car. He went home that night, told a few neighbors, the neighbors told a few suburbs, the suburbs told all their freinds and family in the country. Hence, Detroit's lovely image. It's not exaggeration. It's false reality. | ||
Ghetto_butterfly Member Username: Ghetto_butterfly Post Number: 634 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 68.60.139.186 |
I had a friend whose now ex-wife told me herself the following: she is an oral hygienist and received her training at some dental school that was at the time located on Jefferson in Detroit. That was in the early 90's. She lived in some eastside suburb and would drive down Gratiot all the way into Detroit to go to school. She said that as soon as she would cross over into Detroit, she'd blew every red light and every stop sign for "safety reasons". She didn't take evening classes, mind you, that was all in broad daylight, on a busy 4-lane street that Gratiot is. In 2001 I moved to Detroit and that same year my then-friend got a divorce. Inspired by my move, he said that now that he was single again, he'd be interested in living in the city too and started looking at houses and condos. He had the usual every-other-weekend visitation rights with his kids. When his ex found out about his plans to move to Detroit, she threatened to do every thing possible to suspend his visitation rights if he would live in Detroit because she did not want her kids "be exposed to that kind of dangerous environment". He eventually gave in and never moved, instead the loser is still living with his mom, at age 40, since 2001. In 2000 I worked for a while at Jeep/Truck on Plymouth Rd, in Detroit. My cubicle neighbor was a young girl who told me one day that her parents are thrilled about her being an engineer working for DaimlerChrysler but not at all about her job location. She said her dad told her to drive the hell in and out of Detroit, through red lights and stop signs and never stop, he'd personally pay for every ticket she might get because of it. I still work for DC, but at their Detroit Diesel location on Plymouth Rd. and to drive home I usually take Plymouth to Grandd River to Jefferson where I live. I pass through some not-so-good neighborhoods. Never had I any problems, but then again, I also don't stray from the main roads and in the winter time when it's dark early, I avoid the area altogether. I call that common sense, like others have pointed out in this thread. | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3210 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 72.49.172.67 |
Back in the 80's when I would drive home from downtown up Michigan or Warren Avenue after the bars closed, I would blow off several red lights, but not because of crime. Often I'd be stopped at an intersection and there would be absolutely no one else at the intersection, so I'd go through the light. There weren't any cops either so you had no fear of getting pulled over. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 8 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Well, in spite of blowing off urban legends there are still real stories in the paper and on TV like the shooting in Detroit this morning. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4193 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
Running redlights, and not due to safety reasons, has been a problem for many years in the city. My dad was almost killed driving down Jefferson near downtown when some nut ran a redlight or stopsign along one of the north/south streets crossing Jefferson. I always drive extra carefully when I'm in the city, and especially around intersections. Not to say I haven't seen this type of driving in other large cities, but their seems to be patterened disregard for traffic laws in Detroit. | ||
Sailor_rick Member Username: Sailor_rick Post Number: 136 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 12.2.192.223 |
Ah, yes the quaint Motor-City custom of "running the reds", be it for fear or thrills. One more reason riding a motorcycle, which essentially is dangerous in itself, is an adrenalin rush when you successfully complete a late night cross-town ride intact. I knew a rider you become "one" with a SUV grille that blew though a light on the East Side. R.I.P-Danny | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3211 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 72.49.172.67 |
I would never cruise through any red lights without coming to a stop first and looking around. Some of those intersections could have benefitted from the flashing red lights after a certain hour. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8725 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.54.69.58 |
Mikeg, I wish stores were not open on sundays. That way FAMILIES could actually spend the day TOGETHER instead of running around buying things they don't need or working to pay for the things they purchased. BTW: What does that have to do with the price of milk? | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 426 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.227.30.129 |
I worked in the Whitney building in the late 80s. My opinion of downtown (Grand Circus Park area) at the time wasn't so much that it was extremely dangerous, but that it was abandoned and desolate. That is also the main reason people would blow through red lights back then in Detroit. Absolutely no traffic, especially at night. I'm not saying crime wasn't bad back then, but it's not like people sometimes make it sound, either-- bullets flying through the air, people unable to cross the street without being shot. That stuff is silly. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 112 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.217.214.203 |
What about the infamous drive down the Southfield Freeway where you see in your rear view mirror the dump-mobile weaving in and out of heavy traffic at speeds above and beyond safe. You see them in the far left lane thinking they're going to pass you when all of a sudden, it makes a mad-dash for the Fenkell Street exit, side swipping a vehicle in the exit ramp, and just keeps on going. Insurance rates? What insurance rates? I've seen that on 2 occassions now, both on the Southfield Freeway. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 16 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.246.123.152 |
Once again I feel compelled to dial in here...Urban crime fairly labeled or not is a social issue. In the days before 9-11, NAFTA and the mass export of jobs over seas by greedy executives and company shareholders, crime in our area was the lowest it had been in decades. Why? All the crooks had good paying jobs, no need to steal. How can we fix that? Support companies and unions that pay people fair wages, when a company shuts down, throwing hundreds of hard working people out on the street like Kroger wants to do in Livonia, quit shopping there and go to Farmer Jacks. As individuals, we can drive change better then we give ourselves credit for. Waking Up Store at the Universal Mall has clothes made by US Factories that pay their workers living wages and provides medical benefits. What is truly surprising is, the pricing on the US made duds is competive with Wal Mart and Target. While it is true that no matter how good the economy is you will still have those that for whatever reason, drug addiction or just plain sociopathy, the statistics prove that given a choice of going to work or commiting a crime, most people will go to work. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4202 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
Rocket City, the drive down the Lodge entering the city from Southfield is just as, if not more, interesting.  | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 17 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.246.123.152 |
Also, quoting statistics, I'm sure anyone foolish enough to ignore stop signs and traffic lights is way more likely to die in a car accident plus kill some other unfortunate person then they would be to get hit by a stray bullet or get car jacked. AAA or alstate has these statistics. Having said that; do I run stop lights? Sure, but not just in Detroit. I'll run em' in Wixom, Southgate, Novi or wherever a Traffic light may be operating at a dumb time of night like 4 am instead of flashing, and there is obviously no trafic for miles around. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1729 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 67.36.21.222 |
http://www.city-journal.org/ht ml/8_2_oh_to_be.html | ||
Dtown1 Member Username: Dtown1 Post Number: 40 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.212.172.155 |
Well from what I hear, and I think this is true is the worst time to live in Detroit for anyone was in the 80s of course this was anywhere because of the crack/cocaine epidemic. However, it was mainly the minorities hurting because of the tough loss with the presidency of Reagan. It was the stress that caused all this crime and destruction in Detroit that Reagan but on the lower class/minorities. Remember the 666 ordeal. Also, their was this white police group called stress in the 60s-early 70s that would beat african americans to death for nothing. However, Coleman ended that when he got into the office. And back to the Crack/cocaine epidemic, there was this corridor from Warren ot Jefferson and alter to Conner called crack alley. It was were all the crack heads and crack houses were at that time. If you lived in that neighborhood, chances are, you would find a drug seller att every corner in that area. Also, that also probably hurt all the homes and business over there as the crack would have people burning down their own homes and each other homes. Then thier's southwest Detroit, prostitute township. That's also where the crack heads populated as all you see in most of SW Detroit is vacancies and the typical ghetto places (Liquor stores). Then at night, if you drove down Michigan ave. You may see a prostitute walk up to your car or something and offer you sex and they would be lined up all across the side walk. Really, the only nice part of SW Detroit is Mexicantown. (Message edited by Dtown1 on August 25, 2006) |
