  Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1891 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 134.215.223.211 |
This would certainly be a radical step to return Ford to profitability. But I guess when your name is splashed over millions of products across the world, you'll do what you need to protect your name: http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060824/NEWS99/ 60824002 | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 733 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.108.69.134 |
I think it is a good move and they can make all the changes they need to make without all the hassle. I just hope that if this goes through, that no inner family beef takes over on which direction to take the company. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 262 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.138 |
Well, if they believe the company is salvageable, the price is certainly right to buy the company back given the the stock price is hovering around 1987 levels Of course, it would suck for long-time shareholders (including many employee shareholders) who will lose any chance to recover their losses. (Message edited by thejesus on August 24, 2006) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6380 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
This would likely be their best option to continue operations into the future. Wall Street has become a harsh slave-master. Their influence on MBAs has infiltrated the very fabric of corporate capitalism...causing every corp to focus on the next month's numbers rather than the long-term direction of the firm. If anyone DARES challenge their fickleness, they downgrade the 'credit-worthiness' and the firm's capilalization tanks. Those monthly/quarterly/annual numbers are obviously important, but they should NEVER have grown to be the dominant direction-dictator to Chairpeople and CEOs everywhere. Especially when the numbers contain NO metric to value the well-being of humans and other parts of nature...the effects of the corporation. These corporations have run roughshod over anything and everything that gets in their way of growth. This is the main reason I consider growth, the biggest assumption in capitalism, to be BAD...when it runs unchecked against its effects, intended and unintended. | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.174.38.160 |
My brother works at the Norfolk VA Ford plant, slated to close in 2008 if not sooner. When Bill Ford toured the plant last year or year before, everyone at the plant got a close-up view of him. This guy had a heavy lisp and queer swagger about him that doesn't come out on TV. The guy has to be gay. Bill has ruined Ford and lost Ford's $35 Billion cash reserve on overseas junkyard operations, amongst other things. Who had the idea that putting a Ford relative in charge just on his name would keep the company successful? It's like putting Paris Hilton in charge of the Hilton hotel empire just because she's a Hilton! Ruinous! | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 576 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.26.144 |
At least Bill Ford has real incentive to right the ship, because his whole family's fortune is tied up in the company. | ||
220hendrie1910 Member Username: 220hendrie1910 Post Number: 38 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 20.137.2.50 |
Catman_dude observed:
I'm so sorry that this is relevant to you in some twisted way. From Forbes: "Bill Ford is the kind of guy who pulls on a pair of well-worn blue jeans and spends weekends ferrying his four kids around. If he finds a few minutes for himself, he grabs a sandwich for lunch and reads the sports section. There's a reason the 44-year-old chief executive of Ford Motor is starring in those print and television ads: He comes across as such a nice guy that you'd trust buying a car from him." Maybe you'll find phobic solace in the last paragraph where the author mentions how this "sensitive" guy sometimes joins his wife's yoga class. Ford-less in Ottawa. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 2138 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Catman_dude I sure there is no bitterness in your observation. Based on what you typed I'm guessing you come from a long line of uneducated clueless rednecks. | ||
Opus Member Username: Opus Post Number: 21 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 72.241.34.10 |
I for one do not evny the position Bill Ford is in. He is trying to find the next model T, cheap, efficient, every man car, while his cash cows (explorer, F150) sales are falling off the chart. I think he has a vision, but the problems just keep on multiplying. The whole Nissan-Renault thing is just to keep people off his back for five minutes, supposedly Nissan is in way worse shape than they let on. I think he can turn it around, he just needs five minutes to breath and a new hit product. Then long term they need to deep six Jaguar, find an ultra low cost Asian partner, ie Huyndai-Kia, and either move Lincoln upmarket or kill it. I read that the new Lincoln flagship will not even come with a V8, while Lexus and BMW are creating V10's. Either compete, or die and a V6 is still to this day not considered a flagship luxury engine. By the way, Ford GM and DCX would be flying high within two days if the we went to socialized medicine like the majority of the industrialized world. | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 26 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.174.38.160 |
"I'm guessing you come from a long line of uneducated clueless rednecks." Wrong on all counts. I graduated from Hope College in Holland, Michigan. Lived in Westland. The relevance would be linking homosexuality to work performance, evident with Ford Motor's fortunes since him at the helm. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 759 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.69 |
GM and DCX aren't doing so great--is it because their leaders are gay, also? | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 27 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.174.38.160 |
I wouldn't know about GM and DCX. All I know is Ford. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6395 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
I've met Bill Ford, Jr. We spent a few mornings, over a few months, talking at the Starbuck's in West Dearborn...after I 'saved' him from a rabid Lions fan the day after the college draft, probaby six years ago. The man is a solid, decent human being. He is very much aware of his power, yet is incredibly humble. He knows his place, and was gracious when I asked him IF he thought some political duty might be in store for his future. He wouldn't put his family through THAT!! Opus, Don't think we need anything like a grotesque 'flagship' that flies in the face of the economically responsible products they're trying to produce. I'd be happy when they eliminate everything over six cylinders unless the product is designed to tow. Audi has proven that a dual turbo'd six can crank out some heavy ponies...even though they went to the 8 later, due to market pressures. But IF Ford wants to evolve into a car company that will weather our pricier oil future, they would be smart to buck this race to 600 HP in a passenger vehicle! They ARE headed by a man with his head on straight on environmental issues. | ||
Messykitty Member Username: Messykitty Post Number: 92 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.21.198.33 |
"I graduated from Hope College in Holland, Michigan." I know Hope has more than its fair share of bigots like you as I also graduated from there. "Spera in Deo" and all that bullshit. Can you just do the intelligent, critically thinking alumni a favour and never let another living soul know that you graduated from there? We all thank you in advance. | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 28 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.174.38.160 |
Messykitty, I know you keed, you keed!! What'z yo problemo???? | ||
Messykitty Member Username: Messykitty Post Number: 93 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.21.198.33 |
If you were to meet me first-hand right now, you'd very quickly see how much I am not kidding. My problem is this... "This guy had a heavy lisp and queer swagger about him that doesn't come out on TV. The guy has to be gay." and... "The relevance would be linking homosexuality to work performance, evident with Ford Motor's fortunes since him at the helm." There is absolutely no correlation between perceived homosexauality and work performance. What if he was a woman? Or black? Or hispanic? Would that mean that Ford's current misfortune would be due to the fact that one of those were in charge? Whatif it were a white straight man in charge? Would that mean that white straight men were the cause? You'd then probably try to find some other, more realistic reason for Ford's troubles. Instead, you throw the "he's a fag" card down. Or, more accurately, the "my brother said he seems like a fag" card. Becuase of that, I'd rather not have anyone know that a bigot like you shared the same educational experience that I did. That's all. | ||
Opus Member Username: Opus Post Number: 22 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 72.241.34.10 |
I really am impressed with Bill's commitment to the environment, I have taken the Rouge tour with the growing roof and all of that, but selling cars still involves selling gas guzzling luxury mobiles to the rich of the world. If Ford is going to continue having Lincoln, then they have to differentiate Lincoln from Ford and Mercury, and the way you do this is to make Lincolns "special". One way to make a car "special" is to give it a better engine than the other two. I agree that fuel is going to get scarce, but there are a lot of people out there with a lot of money who really just don't care, they want a big car with a big engine. By the way, Audi has a V8 available in every vehicle they make except the A3 nowadays. Even Acura, king of the V6 luxury companies, is considering a V8 for the RL and the MDX. | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 29 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.174.38.160 |
Messykitty, you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. Homosexuality is a behavioural issue, not a racial or gender one. As a behavioural problem, it becomes all-emcompassing in the mind of the person....therefore effects work performance and personal life. I'm not kidding either. Before anyone make huge leaps in assumptions, I'm not saying they should be beaten, shot at, or anything. I just rather they not be in leadership positions before they make a mess of things. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 760 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.69 |
Hmmm, 'dude's brother's plant is slated to close. Then, 'dude claims Bill Ford has a "queer swagger" and must be gay. Hmmmmmmmm.......... | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 30 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.174.38.160 |
Alsodave, this was observed *before* the news about the plant being shut down. Some other workers at the time pretty much had a "well, no wonder Ford Motor is managed like crap" when they saw for themselves the way Bill Ford conducted himself during the plant tour. Silver spoon grown. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 577 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.22.195 |
Heh. Catman_dude uses the British/Canadian spelling, "behaviour." That looks suspiciously effeminate to me... | ||
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary Post Number: 8 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 70.236.163.176 |
I agree with Gannon's post. It seems that companies can no longer look past the next quarter because of Wall Street. It's as if long term planning is not allowed. There was an interview on the radio this morning with some economist who was saying that the shareholders would actually come out ahead if Ford went private. I'd love to see Ford go private just to thumb its nose at Wall Street. | ||
Opus Member Username: Opus Post Number: 23 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 72.241.34.10 |
Going private is a great idea. Corporate America is driving itself straight into the ground to keep Wall Street happy. This all goes back to stock options for high ranking employees. They want to get that stock price as high as possible so they can cash in when they go out the door. There is no incentive whatsoever to build for the long term, just get the cash and run. FifthThird Bank is a prime example of this mentality. For decades they grew in small steady spurts by buying poorly perfroming smaller banks. Then in 1999, Wall Street started telling them they needed to grow faster to justify their stock price. All of a sudden they buy Old Kent and choke on it. One problem after another, way more than they could handle. Ever since then, the company has been stuck in neutral. They had a plan, and had they stuck to it they would be doing great, but after listening to the street they are in a near permanent rut. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1286 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.130.18.100 |
Nah, Burnsie, just stupid | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 36 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 68.41.154.161 |
I second what Gannon has said; Wall street has messed up our lives for too long. I hope Ford does go private and they are able to turn it taround. Then maybe some other CEOs will grow some balls and do the same thing. | ||
Hugo8100 Member Username: Hugo8100 Post Number: 7 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 146.9.204.29 |
I think Charles Koch would approve of Ford going private: "We couldn't have achieved the profitability we have," Mr. Koch insists, "if we had been a public company. No investor would have been patient enough to allow us to build a firm oriented toward long-term growth and profits." This is one of Mr. Koch's bugaboos regarding the deficiencies of modern corporate management. He notes, "The short-term infatuation with quarterly earnings on Wall Street restricts the earnings potential of Fortune 500 publicly traded firms. Public firms are also feeding grounds for lawyers and lawsuits." | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 972 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.184.29.148 |
Try again that was Jac Nasser with the junk yards and repair shops in Europe. The day that man left was a good day at Ford. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 2141 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
Toolbox don't forget about all of Ford's legacy costs that are hurting Ford. Those legacy costs are a direct result of Jr. possibly being gay. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 179 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.88.89.94 |
It's well-known that Bill Ford's great grandpappy loathed Wall Street to no end. So Henry the Deuce's taking Ford public in '56 was a big deal at the time. Halberstam in "The Reckoning" mentions it would be one of the last times an IPO from an old-school industry would generate such excitement on Wall Street. Soon the companies embracing corporate synergy and its new business model would be the darlings of the financial world. And for anybody who follows the market, despite Wall Street's dedicated and endless number crunching, hype, buzz and their perceived value can carry a tangible value on the balance sheets. So basically, Wall Street has been bored with the Big Three for a long time. They are old and operate with just too much bulk. It would be a plus if Detroit could get rid of them, but I've always thought the auto industry's operations were dependent on the Street's financing. The overhead being just too large to go it alone. So if Bill Jr. thinks he take Ford private, he's got a lot more gut than people are giving him credit for. | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1074 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.35.85.184 |
"Try again that was Jac Nasser with the junk yards and repair shops in Europe. The day that man left was a good day at Ford." I agree that Nasser was terrible, but who hired him? The Fords have about 40% of the voting rights of Ford stock due to the class of shares they created for the family. The only incentive I see for them to buy up the outstanding shares is to get out of the public reporting arena (there isn't much profit to distribute). I don't think any outside group can gain enough voting power to force the Fords to take the company private, and I don't see the family selling their shares. My fear is that the same inept Ford management that has kept the Lions in the dumpster for 45 years is also now driving FoMoCo into the dirt, and that there is not much positive in the foreseeable future. | ||
Shark Member Username: Shark Post Number: 247 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.208.248.83 |
Lowell - when are you going to start enforcing the policies that you laid out as a term of participation?
So the post above is ok, Danny's persistant and overt homophobia is tacitly endorsed, Livedog2 talking about "ragheads" is not worthy of removal...just what the hell is unacceptable around here? | ||
Buddyinrichmond Member Username: Buddyinrichmond Post Number: 40 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 67.38.28.69 |
I heard the term 'douchebag' was a triggerword. | ||
Supergay Member Username: Supergay Post Number: 16 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
Now you know, he obviously knows a lot of gay people because this is absolutely true. Just look at all the examples ... Enron, Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, Tyco, K-Mart ... these are just recent things. Frankly it goes back to the S&L loan debacle of the 80's, to Watergate and beyond. I for one am tired of all these faggots and bulldaggers messing all these companies up. If it weren't for the gigantic spending power of these unsuccessful businesspeople, I think we'd be able to keep them in their place. Unfortunately this is America and the mighty dollar rules, so we'll just have to sit around with them fucking things up for the rest of us until they decide to change their behaviour, stop constantly thinking about nothing but GAY. | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 140 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 209.114.251.65 |
If someone accused me of being a redneck I'm not sure I'd offer my time spect living in Westland as proof to the contrary. Can someone explain how someone can have a lisp in person but not on tv? | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 38 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 75.10.91.78 |
That's hilarious! Enron screwed up because of good ole gay Ken Lay. It even rhymes, too much! Good one SuperGay. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2703 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.42 |
Catman_dude.... you stepped in dog-doo on that subject... In case you didn't know it there are a lot of gays on this forum. And they certainly found what you said very offensive, which it is (to gays and non gays alike)! I take it you some of your ideas stem from Hope College, a conservative western Michigan religious College. No surprise there (sorry Messykitty!). And your off the wall comments about William Clay Ford Jr. are also offensive. He's a great family guy with 4 children. I don't care if he's a cross dressing transvestite. His sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with his performance. And you base your judgement on him based on what your brother saw at a Virginia plant? If you had ever taken a logic class you would know that that is what is known as a "weak analogy". A logical fallacy. As a noobie, you have just branded yourself as a Homophobe. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 39 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 75.10.91.78 |
Yes! Rather we're talking about crime south of 8 mile or homosexuals; I see a lot of that kind of stereotyping, ignorance and intolerence on these posts. This is good in a way, maybe these unenlightened people can be educated. After all if they did not care, why would they be on this website to begin with? | ||
Mc5rules Member Username: Mc5rules Post Number: 174 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 148.61.97.101 |
Catman, people like you are the reason the year I spent at Hope College was the closest I ever came to shooting myself in the head. Messykitty, it was people like you who kept me going in the face of bigotry and small-mindedness. (Message edited by mc5rules on August 25, 2006) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6405 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Pardon me while I go fall on my sword. | ||
Messykitty Member Username: Messykitty Post Number: 94 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.21.198.33 |
Catman_dude, To (sadly) quote another forumite, "WE NEED MORE RESOURCES TO DEFEND YOUR THESIS PLEASE!!!!" I'm interested in where you get your ideas regarding us gays and our inability to lead due to the fact that our "behavioural issue" is all-encompassing. Seriously, smart college guy, are you able to back up your statements? Or are you just going to hide in the corner. | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 31 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.174.38.160 |
I apologize to Bvos and Lowell for this gay issue to have highjacked this thread (and no, I don't want a separate thread on this either). I think the phase "cast not your pearls before...." is applicable here. Messykitty, I'm sorry you are pissed about my viewpoint but to explain further isn't going to be productive. I can only say that having dealt over the years with gay people and even a supervisor who was gay formed my opinions. Maybe I got a bad batch of gay examples? Yep, Gistok, I shall wash the dog and cat doo doo I stepped in. A wise man can appear stupid if he talks and reveals too much. | ||
Johnfromsaginaw Member Username: Johnfromsaginaw Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.188.37.175 |
Being a visitor from the north country, I try not to join these threads unless I have something salient to add. I worked as a local sports writer for the three years the Lions trained at Saginaw Valley State and had many occasions to meet and talk in some depth with both Bill Ford and his father, William Clay. I have tapes of Bill discussing the Lions, and he doesn't lisp at all. Nor does he have any hitch to his walk that I noticed. In fact, both he and his father struck me -- considering their wealth and positions -- as being surprisingly average joes. Though I was literally standing next to him on the sideline, I didn't even notice William Clay Ford the first time we met until Scott Mitchell came trotting over to say hello to him. I guess I'm trying to say that there is nothing noteworthy about the Fords' walks or talks that I could see. Either your brother is a better observer of human beings that I am, Catman (unlikely after 20-plus years hanging around the news business), or he's projecting big time. John My only problem with either of the Fords is alluded to above -- they both know about as much about running a football team as does the average joe. But they are good, decent, if kind of grey flannel people. I liked them both personally and wish them the best in turning both Ford Motor Company and the Lions around -- and hopefully soon. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6421 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Catman_dude, Yeah, you're digging yourself deeper and deeper. Plus, you aimed your apology incorrectly. In MY dealings over the years...I had one woman supervisor who manipulated me with her position to KEEP me from excelling at my job due to her extreme jealousy of my abilities. I've had ONE business owner super-genius who played people like pawns...he never learned to play well with others. You could recite exactly what he said to you verbatim, and STILL run the risk of being degraded for being wrong...since in that duration of time he could think at a power of seventeen over and around you. Had another bad one...a white guy so angry he made EVERYONE uncomfortable against his random rants. I could choose to be biased against everyone who resembles THEM. Then I could be a bigot like YOU! Whee! Can you NOT see the logical fallacy of your conclusion? Take a peek WHY we think you have an undue bias against an entire group of individuals who in NO way, shape, or form deserve to be lumped together as some bulk-moving mass ensemble. Cheers! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6422 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Just tell me that Hope College gives sheepskin to kids with their critical thinking muscles intact. Thank goodness Messykitty survived there IF they don't... | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 704 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
I hope Ford can go private. Only Wallstreet would think that when you make a profit its bad because its not as much profit as they wanted you to make. How about a company that makes enough money to pay its bills, invest in the future and pay all employees... and break even? That would be a total horror to a Wall Street "analyst." Compuware should go private, too. Dont they have no debt and a mountain of on-hand money? | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 32 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.174.38.160 |
Gannon, you completely lost me on your posts. How does apologizing for bringing up the issue means I'm "digging a hole deeper and deeper"? Who do you think I should be apologizing to? To gays? For what? Having an opinion? I think not. Regarding the woman supervisor and business owner, that seems so left-field to me, I don't know what your point is. Angry white guy? I'm not angry...just amused that this keeps going on and on. You choose to be biased. Good. That's your choice. Doesn't mean I would agree to it but hey, we don't have to see eye to eye on everything or anything. We move on. What's illogical? If you mean that it is illogical to assume that Bill Ford is gay because of a lisp and certain walk, I guess you're right. There may be physiological reasons for it. Also, maybe it was bad acoustics that made it sound like he did. Then I apologize to everyone for making that statement. If you mean that it's illogical to make the assumption that all gays have bad work performance, then again, I may be wrong in my observations because I may have not been exposed to that many gays in work environments. As most Navy guys and Larry, the cable guy would say, "Not that I want to". What is really illogical is to assume gayness is the same as being black, white, Asian, woman or man. It's behavio(u)r-based and due to many possible factors (all negative) a person would go down that route. No exactly good leadership quality. Individually, there may be exceptions. Collectively, ah, I would not bet on it. Hope College was only mentioned by me because a guy asked if I was some uneducated redneck, like I was a high school dropout or something. In reality, you'll get me and messykitty from any college or university. Doesn't matter. Call me anything you want. I'm not going to answer anymore posts as this is unrelated to the thread. If I'm banned, viva la Detroit! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6423 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
You're still digging. NO, amazing that a college graduate would MISS this OBVIOUS point...but you're proving to be an interesting case already. I made a few examples of individuals who I've had as supervisors that I COULD have chosen to have an attitude against, if I ILLOGICALLY decided to lump ALL examples that were similar together. I don't take issue with women supervisors, nor do I hold anything against the genius who couldn't play well with others, nor even the angry guy. IF you choose to say that gay orientation is a choice, then SO is each of their attitudes...although arguement could be had that at least the genius had genetic or environmental disposition. I'm NOT sure being gay is a choice. There MAY be genetic triggers, it MAY be some choice...conscious OR sub- or super-conscious...or it may even be a spiritual influence. You admit yourself that your direct experience sample is small, yet you choose to indict EVERY gay person with your very broad brush. You met a few gay people and had a few bad experiences. You CHOOSE to then assume that ALL who happen to have that orientation have the exact same limitations as the folks you met. THAT is illogical to the extreme...and because you THEN choose to use your bias to reduce other humans to a level beneath you, you prove yourself a bigot. This sort of intolerance leads to serious problems...and I simply don't stand for it. I'll call it out whenever it rears its ugly head. I only said you apologized in the wrong direction. Lowell and the thread starter are NOT the targets of your hatred...figure it out for yourself...IF you are able. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6424 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
BTW, the LIKELIHOOD that you've experienced gay people in many situations throughout your life...where you were completely oblivious...is actually quite high. Even on the western reformed side of the mitten... | ||
Messykitty Member Username: Messykitty Post Number: 102 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.21.198.33 |
Gannon, it's like arguing with a wall. Valiant effort, though, and thank you for it. This whole thread has put me in an angry Hope College flashback. I can't even find words. In reality, the faculty at Hope is, for the most part, wonderful. It is the student body, alumni and board of directors that make it a haven for the likes of catman_dude. Hope doesn't create people who are unable to think critically, it admits bigots who are unwilling to change. I've had many classroom discussions that were just like this, as have my former professors. You could see the frustration on their faces. Catman_dude KNOWS, unlike the majority of the scientific community, that gay is a behaviour...and a negative one, at that. This negative behaviour is all-encompassing, leaving one so engrossed with it that there is no room for anything more substantiative than, say, showtunes or women's clothes. We are all too busy thinking about man-sex and fondling little boys to run anything more complex than a cash register. How does catman_dude know this? Because he ran into a gay or two once or twice. Case closed. BTW, I have absolutely no opinion on, and could give a flying f**k if Ford goes private or not. I bid this thread adieu. | ||
Messykitty Member Username: Messykitty Post Number: 104 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.21.198.33 |
One last thing. Since were all the same, on behalf of all of the gays, I'd like to thank catman_dude for not thinking we should be taken out and shot, or anything. You are a true saint. Ford considers going private...discuss. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 706 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
Gannon, unfortunately you let your emotions get the best of you and in your feelings that you were right you started issuing insults and assignment of names and labels. Reminds me of someone else... unfortunate and never warranted and detracts from the message to the point of my eyes glazing over. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 39 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.153.30.164 |
Catmandude stated: "This guy had a heavy lisp and queer swagger about him that doesn't come out on TV. The guy has to be gay." "Before anyone make huge leaps in assumptions, I'm not saying they should be beaten, shot at, or anything. I just rather they not be in leadership positions before they make a mess of things." Catmandude, next time you are in the Sistene Chapel, look up and see what a " " did, and next time you see the statue of "David", as well as the works not only of Michelangleo but of Leonardo Da Vinci, the one who painted the most famous painting of all time, remember your words. You may want to do a reality check on yourself and ask, what contribution have you made to society other than bash a man who is worth millions? Care to answer me what your contribution is? Thanks Jane | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 40 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.153.30.164 |
oops, it just dawned on me Catman, do you think your brother could possibly be gay? I mean, after all they say gays have built in " gaydar", which is the ability to recognize another gay person in a public setting? Hmm...you may want to ask. I mean, after all, he recognizes behaviors most people didnt? I dont know, but he sounds kinda gay to me Catman...whacha think? Thanks, Jane | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 720 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 75.10.1.205 |
catmandude lives in westland thats redneck enough. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6446 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Glaze away, East_detroit. Did you read the definition of bigot?! What is the difference between name calling and showing someone that they fit into a definition of a common term?! I'd say name calling is throwing out a vindictive when you have NO arguement. I presented my arguement, with a few examples, and merely told him that his behavior was indicating that conclusion in me. I EVEN ended the comment in a good mood, where do you read that I let my emotions get the better of me?! He then re-engaged me when he didn't understand my point, so I clarified it, and also gave a link to the definition of the term bigot. All too often, I've seen attempts at watering down the word...so I chose to substantiate my choice of words. It was NOT mere name calling without any attempt at reconciliation on the way to growth. Cheers! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6447 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
M-K, You're very much welcome, and thanks for noticing... Truly, John | ||
Oliverdouglas Member Username: Oliverdouglas Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 69.215.242.247 |
Some of Ford's best years recently were while Alan Gilmour was at the helm. Quite a capable queer. |
