  Ghetto_butterfly Member Username: Ghetto_butterfly Post Number: 639 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 68.60.139.186 |
My turn to bitch ... It seems that almost every time (which is daily) I drive south on Woodward, past Campus Martius, I almost get hit by 1 or even several cars who are obviously too stupid to recognize different lanes for different directions. Even though the lanes are marked with arrows pointing left and right, drivers go into the left lanes and the just cut over into the right lanes at the traffic light because they just don't get the concept, and right in front of other cars who are in the correct lane - like it's completely normal. Those cars in most cases have MI license plates so even though they don't necessarily live or know downtown Detroit, they're not totally clueless out-of-state drivers, mind you. Those people I will cut some slack for not knowing their way around, but please, YOU, if you read this, keep in mind, the left lanes are for going back north on Woodward or to Monroe or even if you just feel like circling around CM all day long, but if you want to continue south on Woodward toward Jefferson, get into one of the RIGHT LANES ahead of time. I DO NOT want to get hit by some moron who doesn't get the concept of different lanes for different directions and still thinks Woodward is one straight shot 4-lane road. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 594 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 71.213.227.125 |
It's round-about driving, not rocket science but for the uninitiated, maybe a little bizzare. I hear ya though GB. "Look kids, Big Ben, Parliment..." | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 454 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
I wouldn't be so hard on these people. The first few times I drove through that area I got caught in the wrong lane and had to move over. It was early on a Saturday and there weren't many cars around so it wasn't a problem. Part of the problem could be that people are looking at the fountain and other things at CM and aren't concentrating on the road. I think that was my problem I've gotten to the point that I avoid driving my car through that area when I go downtown just to avoid any problem from other drivers. I've been on CM and seen/heard people slamming on their brakes to avoid an accident. Also I don't think it helps when people are coming to and from CM and crossing the street everywhere and not at the crosswalks. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4231 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
People, in general, don't know how to use round-abouts, and there are even fewer here in Michigan. | ||
Ghetto_butterfly Member Username: Ghetto_butterfly Post Number: 640 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 68.60.139.186 |
Ok, I admit that these people (for the most part) don't seem to be the sort of drivers whose guts I really hate, the aggressive, inconsiderate, speeding, lane-cutting kind so prominent in metro and Detroit that couldn't care less about fellow drivers (see the "doing 160mph on 696" thread), but they (drivers at CM) just seem so ignorant and oblivious. I also think that the round-about to come when driving south on Woodward is not well enough marked ahead of time, it should start at State or at Michigan at the latest. | ||
Innovator Member Username: Innovator Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 160.39.244.210 |
the truth is a lot of people using woodward around the campus martius area are suburbanites who probably aren't used to dealing with pedestrians except in a parking lot. | ||
Dmb Member Username: Dmb Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.61.245.34 |
I was on my motorcyle Sunday afternoon and made the mistake of driving around CM...bad idea. I almost got hit not once but twice in a single trip around from people that don't understand the concept that lanes are for driving in and not across. Never again on the bike for sure. On a separate occaision(probably like a year ago) I witnessed a car going the wrong way around the park. They were obviously business people in a rent a car... but damn it just doesn't seem that hard to figure it out. | ||
Innovator Member Username: Innovator Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 160.39.244.210 |
good thing we don't have one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M agic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29 (Message edited by innovator on August 24, 2006) | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 578 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.22.195 |
Oh my god. That roundabout diagram gives me a headache just looking at it. I'd probably get myself trapped in one of the "mini-roundabouts," like an eddy in a huge swirling rapids. | ||
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary Post Number: 9 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 70.236.163.176 |
I'm probably one of those dummies who doesn't understand how to do it. I'm going to go down there Sunday after church and practice. Downtown driving can be pretty confusing at times. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 605 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.40.89.188 |
It is not the drivers' fault, the set up of the circle is terrible. When you're headed south on Woodward and take the circle, right before it straightens out, the three lanes (2?) that are there turn into 4 lanes--2 going left, 2 going south. Meaning for you to remain straight south on Woodward, you must be in the far right lane. Which in terms of the volume of traffic is wrong. More people heading south on Woodward want to go to Jefferson and not take the circle left to remain at Campus Martius---but the lane set-up is geared to making the oppisite. Sure people can still stay legal......but if you haven't been on that circle more than 3 times, folks are going to screw up. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 455 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
"When you're headed south on Woodward and take the circle, right before it straightens out, the three lanes (2?) that are there turn into 4 lanes--2 going left, 2 going south. Meaning for you to remain straight south on Woodward, you must be in the far right lane" Yeah, I was having a hard time visualizing it, but I knew there was something screwy about it. Heading into the straight away you think you're in the proper lane until it's almost to late to move over. As a matter of fact the first time I went through that area I had to spin around CM because I was in the wrong lane. | ||
Paulj Member Username: Paulj Post Number: 466 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 68.79.89.120 |
why not just put more sinage, ala "Left turn only" and "thru traffic", painted right on the roadway say at Michigan Avenue? oh wait, would that make too much sense or just cost money? back to deetroit dodgem-cars... | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 571 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.42.162.164 |
Would this help? http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0 ,1607,7-151-9615-139335--,00.h tml | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 606 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.40.89.188 |
At least its not Atlanta with about 5 "Peachtree" streets, some of which even touch each other | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4235 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
Paul, I seem to remember it pretty well marked. Am I wrong? I seem to clearly remember arrows painted in each lane. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 442 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.194.88.24 |
About 2 years ago, WMU installed a roundabout at a major intersection on the West side of campus. It was a free-for-all for a little while, but they did a pretty good job with signage and everyone mostly figured it out by the winter. If college girls on their cell phones can figure out roundabouts, why can't we? | ||
Iddude313 Member Username: Iddude313 Post Number: 32 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.32.240 |
a roundabout is supposed to flow. flow it does not. | ||
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson Post Number: 14 Registered: 06-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Well folks, you should get used to roundabouts. The State of Michigan is going to use more of them according to the article Jimaz sited. I visited Great Britian a few years ago, and they are all over. Roundabouts in England are okay, once you get used to driving on the wrong side of the road...... | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 77 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.252.8.170 |
Try the roundabout at 18 1/2 & Van Dyke. Very confusing. Three lanes in some sections, two in others. It's about a 1 1/2 years old. Traffic is getting better there. What cracks me up is the people that pull up to it and stop even if no one is coming. YIELD means yield. The whole purpose is to avoid unnecessary stops. While in the roundabout, everyone acts as though they have the right of way. Luckily, I went to MSU and there were three of them on campus even 30 years ago. Not sure if they are still there. Sorry to hi-jack. I have to admit, I have ended up in the wrong lane at CM and cut over left before I was forced south on Woodward. Sorry if it was me. Again I am lucky. My company car has out of state plates so everyone cuts me some slack. If they only knew I lived in Michigan! | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 580 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.23.160 |
One of the roundabouts at MSU was removed this summer, because they finally realized it was too dangerous for pedestrians. I don't know if the other ones will follow. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4237 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
Which one, Burnsie? | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1179 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 35.11.221.92 |
you should see the knew triple round about being built in Brighton, it is insane. My gripe with the CM roundabout is if you are coming down Woodward trying to contine going down Woodward past the park, you have to make a last minute lane change every time... | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4238 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
Could someone sketch this out? I can't remember having any problem manuvering the round-about. But, man, the round-abouts in Paris are just crazy. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1783 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.177.31 |
The second to left lane heading south on Woodward should not only have a left arrow, signaling you to go around the park, but it should also have a straight/right arrow that directs you to continue south on Woodward. When four lanes open up at Michigan and Woodward heading south, the far right lane should be used to travel west on Fort only. The second to right lane is supposedly the only lane that you should take to go south on Woodward. However, just south of the turn to go around CMP an additional lane is created (next to the Woodward median), making it possible to use that second to left turning lane to not only turn but to continue south. If you pay attention to the second from right lane(the only one that's supposed to go south on Woodward) you'll see that it is not affected by cars continuing south in that second to left turning lane. To solve the problem just paint arrows indicating that you can go either straight or turn left. | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 566 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 71.159.22.100 |
With respect to the a-holes that scare you on a daily basis, there's not enough notice going southbound where to go. I've had this gripe since they built the roundabout. It's probably due to the shape of the park, but once you get to that corner, it's whoever's first IMO. And while I'm at it, you'd think they'd fix all the street lights and traffic signals while they're at it. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1895 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 134.215.223.211 |
While it doesn't mention the CMart round about (I don't know why it doesn't), the article below does discuss roundabouts in Michigan: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060825/M ETRO05/608250346 | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1259 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
the problem with this "roundabout" is that 1) the damn thing isn't round, its a rectanglabout, and a tight one at that, i get a little nervous when next to a bus going around the corner in front of the compuware building to northbound woodward.... and 2) you cannot see around the corners of the rectanglabout to look for merging traffic, pedestrians etc, not to mention the traffic lights seem to have little rhyme or reason to when they change and/or are set on blinking yellow which are both counteractive to the goal of making it "flow" (Message edited by gravitymachine on August 25, 2006) | ||
65memories Member Username: 65memories Post Number: 280 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.38 |
I agree with Royce and Genesyxx. The middle lane going toward Jefferson on Woodward forces you to only go left and thus back around Campus Martius. That lane should also let you go south down Woodward. As it is now, you have to be in the far right lane to go south. People stuck in that center lane are caught by surprise when they find the "left only" arrow. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 581 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.21.179 |
Lmichigan-- I think it's the one at Wilson and Bogue that was removed. The one at Shaw and Bogue is definitely still there. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 1017 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.40.89.238 |
I have driven around Ireland and the UK several times where there are roundabouts every few miles. They give you lots of warning and direction before you get to the roundabout so you can decide your lane choice. The design and signage is bad. That said, roundabouts are very foreign to drivers in MI, it will probably never be comfortable for most people. I am always very careful when I drive through CM because of that. Another point, with all the changes made to the CBD and all the events that have brought people down to the CBD (Allstar Game, Superbowl, Winterfest, Hard Rock Cafe, Tigers winning, etc) that may have not been Downtown ever or for along time, give them some slack. We need more business and certainly more people Downtown. It is almost like a tourist attraction at this point. Think about going to DC, or Broadway, or any big City that has major tourist attractions - lots of bad driving. | ||
Dtown1 Member Username: Dtown1 Post Number: 32 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.212.172.155 |
Not taking sides ghetto, but people who been driving through downtown since the beginning aren't used to the new roundabout. Now their are those people and the people who just can't drive. So please have patience and dont get yourself in trouble. My mother get confused with the new lanes. She's used to the old fashion way. She stop working downtown before they built the roundabout. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 345 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
I detest traffic circles and roundabouts! Although I completely understand how to drive through them, it's the "other guys" that make me worry. People hesitating, not yielding, going the wrong way, stopping for no reason. IMO those designing these things did not account for the fact that 1/4 of the drivers on the road can't even merge onto a freeway, let alone merge 4 times in less than a minute. I'm sure the collision shops are loving it. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 596 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 71.213.230.209 |
 Seems pretty logical to me, unless you're trying to get from the short street (foreground) in front of C-ware to turn right onto Michigan, where you'd have to cross two incoming Woodward lanes; or likewise heading east on Michigan and wanting to head north on Woodward, you'd have to cross two lanes to get the the inner lanes to do the giant left back to the north. |
