Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Accosted in Capitol Park « Previous Next »
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 68.40.192.192
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been debating whether to post this because I'm sure it'll spark some heated debate, but here goes...

I live in Ann Arbor and try to come to Detroit as often as I can to check out the improvements, explore the city, meet up with friends, etc. A friend from Cleveland who also goes to U of M was interested in seeing the city and hadn't ever visited, and I figured we'd head downtown for the afternoon and get some dinner. There was an Indian festival in Hart Plaza and an outdoor concert in Campus Martius and downtown was bustling and looking great. For a city that is nationally notorious from crime and decay, I was proud to show my Ohioan friend a different side, a better side. It was the Detroit I have been hoping and waiting for since I was a kid and one in which I felt at home and at ease visiting. Every time I come to Detroit, I more and more seriously consider making it my home after college.

After walking around for a bit I took my friend to Capitol Park, and we were pointing at some of the surrounding buildings, and for those few moments, we certainly looked like white suburban tourists. Nobody really seemed to really mind. Hardly anyone noticed us as we walked through the park, paused for a moment to take in the scene, and went on our way.

We were walking back to the car to head to Midtown for dinner and we encountered a group of semi-well-dressed fellows, talking with eachother outside of the party store on Griswold and State. They were not transients, they were not drinking, they were not insane. Just another crowd of friends on the street, who may have happened upon each other while walking in opposite directions and sparked friendly conversation.

Suddenly, seemingly unprovoked and in the midst of their conversation, one of the men mimed pulling a gun out of his shirt, pointed the invisible weapon at us, and yelled "BANG!!!!!!!" at the top of his lungs. The echoes thundered loudly against the stone buildings and, understandably, he surprised my friend and I rather well. He and his friends started laughing hesterically, and several witnesses chuckled. I just gave him a "What the fuck, man!?" look and we went on our way.

Back in the car, my friend, a bit more shaken than I, remarked, "That's why white people don't want to come to Detroit... Let's get the hell outta here." So much for making a good impression...

And, in a way, he was right. Why are Detroit's residents holding on to a past that we, as young 20-year-olds, had nothing to do with? Were the man and his friends, who were black, trying to tap into our supposed 'fears' of black Detroiters? I think the answer is obvious. The truth of the matter is that as young people with few prejudices, we don't care if he's black. But it was obvious that this man and his friends DID care that we were white. (Granted, the man and his friends certainly didn't know if we considered them a 'threat' or were 'scared' of them or whatever, but why should they have assumed that? Just because we're white and look like tourists?)

Well after that I started thinking, considering different scenarious and explanations for what happened, and exploring in my head the true, embedded racial spirit of Detroit. Was this an isolated incident, or does it happen to others? Would it have been a real gun ten years ago? Was he just trying to get us to laugh with him? Was it some kind of bold irony or really just a joke? Some combination of all of this? (probably) .... There are assholes in every city. But I began to think, perhaps rashly, that white people are simply not welcome in Detroit. The thought scared me. I'd hate to see that happen, when Detroit is so very very close to being solidly on its way back up. Don't get me wrong: white people are not necessary for Detroit to be a comfortable place; but equality and acceptance ARE necessary.

Some might say I'm ignoring an entire history, one riddled with racial strife; I'm not ignoring it, but it was before my time and I'm simply past it. Others might say I shouldn't have been walking in Capitol Park as a white 'tourist;' but what's wrong with that? Perhaps I'm thinking rashly or overanalyzing. Perhaps I can't take a joke. Perhaps, like I mentioned above, it is a combination of all of these ideas. But certainly one must consider that this man and his friends simply don't want us, white visitors, walking around in their city.

In Campus Martius I saw a few banners hanging up, obviously aimed at suburban Detroiters who are visiting the park: 'Be a hometown tourist!' I can only imagine what would happen if a few 'hometown tourists' had the same experience as my friend and I did. I doubt they'd ever tour our city again!
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Pdtpuck
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Username: Pdtpuck

Post Number: 191
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 208.251.168.194
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 2:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*mimics Flounder from "Animal House*

"Oh boy, is this gonna be GREAT!"
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4252
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 2:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm going to be told I'm downplaying this, but it sounds like an immature prank by some young guys that just happened to rattle you. Reading the title, I was fully expecting to here a story about your being assualted or cussed out and chased away.

I do think that everyone needs to be more sensitive and aware of perceptions on both sides, but you may be reading a little too far into this. I had something similar happen to me here in Lansing a few years back when a group of drunk guys in a van rolled up beside my while I was on my bike, stopped right in the middle of the street to shout "nigger" over and over out the window and as if they were going to get out of the van, and laughing hysterically before finally speeding off. Having come up behind me, it surprised me and kind of shook me. They couldn't have been muched older than me. But, I really didn't read too much into it, and why should I waste my time?

Could people be more sensitive realizing fragile relationships? Sure? Should we expect everyone to be as mature and as thoughtful as many of us here? I think that's an unrealistic expectation, as much as I'd personally like to hold everyone to the highest human standards. I don't want to apologize for them, but I think it's unfair to have this single event ruins someone's trip. I think it's unfair to ask Black Detroiters to walk on eggshells and shoulder the burden of the entire city on their shoulders when people visit the inner-city, but everyone else is free to act as they choose in the suburbs towards people visiting from Detroit, and these incidents are downplayed as random, isolated events. But, the events within the city are also random events, but are treated as something different and more wrong. I don't like the double-standards.

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 27, 2006)
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1291
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.130.18.100
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 2:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you probably wouldn't think twice about it if you were in Ann Arbor and it was some frat boy on a football Saturday
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1785
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.209.177.31
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 2:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

History will always play a big part regarding the interactions between blacks and whites. These guys probably saw you two as fish out of water and just wanted to have a laugh at your expense, or they saw you two as another bunch of white folks walking through Detroit like you two own it, revealing a resentment towards whites. Some blacks are bothered by the presence of whites, when in the past whites, in the minds of many black Detroiters, left the city to get away from blacks.

If the guy was not crazy, then he probably did what he did to make a statement to you and your friend that Detroit is still majority black and he didn't want you to forget that. Also, historically, whites have put fear into blacks for years. Maybe the guy was thinking that this was a way to get back at whites for putting fear into blacks.

I'm only speculating on what the guy was thinking based on my dealings with other black Detroiters. Unless we ask the guy what his motivation was for doing what he did, we'll never know. At any rate, it was an inappropriate thing to do. I wonder how he would feel walking in a majority white area of a city an someone pulled an imaginary gun on him and went "bang."

I hope you, Gsgeorge, and your friend will come back to Detroit. I also hope he'll be able to look at the situation as an isolated incident and not be fearful of all black Detroiters that he comes in contact with. Remember that there are good and bad people of all races everywhere.

(Message edited by royce on August 27, 2006)
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 984
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.212.40.93
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 3:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I assume your disposition was very inviting for someone to accost you like that!__ I don't think the issue was because your are a 'y-t'__maybe you were looking like a nervous 'b....atch'!


super d(motordetroit)

(Message edited by super_d on August 27, 2006)
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4253
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 3:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As much as I usually disagree with Super_d, and as much as I still disagree with his choice of words, I think I agree with the gist of what he's saying. It would seem it wasn't so much because you were white, as it was that you probably looked like fish out of water, as you said yourself. Doesn't make it anymore right, but fools will take advantage of that wherever you are. I still don't think you should judge him anymore differently than you would random suburban punk, which I think you are doing. Truth be told, I've found more often than not that people are willing to give tourist a break whever you are. But, you'll have those few in every city trying to make it harder on a visitor, and it's not exclusive to one group.
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Gsgeorge
Member
Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 68.40.192.192
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 3:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the quick responses (damn, it's late!)

Lmichigan: Thanks for your thoughts on this. I, too, don't like the double standards that are so prevalent in this area of the state. My friend and I spoke about what happened over dinner, and we agreed it was probably an isolated incident. It was still a bit disconcerting and got me thinking about race relations in the city, and prompted me to plumb the forums.

Lmichigan and Lilpup: The fellows were in their 40s at the least, and most of them were certainly old enough to have experienced, either as a child or teenager, the '67 riot.

Lilpup: Your point is well taken, and would most likely be true if these guys were younger. But these guys weren't drunk frat boys, and this was any old saturday in Detroit.

Royce: Well said, thanks for the thoughts and for putting some perspective on the matter. "Remember that there are good and bad people of all races everywhere." This was something my friend and I discussed over dinner.

super_d and lmichigan: I wasn't being a "nervous b...atch" until AFTER that shit went down. People stand and walk on the street all over the place. It's a city, it happens. Like I said, they didn't show any signs of 'shadyness' and I wasn't giving them any crazy nervous-white-man glances. However, point taken. I prefer 'fish out of water'.

Let me also be clear that what happened will definitely not keep me away from the city or, for that matter, keep me out of Capitol Park (my friend may take some more convincing). I don't want to give the wrong impression that I won't be back. Quite simply, that "bang!" sent a lot of thoughts running through my head about the city and her current state. I also realize many people have experienced much worse; even more have been treated much better. I just feel that talking about it is better than letting these thoughts sit and stagnate in my head...

(Message edited by gsgeorge on August 27, 2006)

(Message edited by gsgeorge on August 27, 2006)
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1292
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.130.18.100
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was thinking more about what your unconscious mindset was.

Check out this test - if you find it interesting there's a whole page of similar tests you can take
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Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 533
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.246.29.185
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The truth of the matter is that as young people with few prejudices, we don't care if he's black.




BS, Lilup is right you wouldn't have posted this question if this had happened in AA. You came with notions about how blacks in the city feel abou whites and instead of chalking the incident to a random asshole you made it reflect an entire city.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4254
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Give the guy a break. Reading his last post, he looks to have thought through this more carefully. We all do this. This is all we can ask of any human being, and that is to live and learn. George seems like a decent guy, and at least had the decency to think through the situation and listen to other opinions and points of view. I wish more people (and even here) would do that far more often than they do.

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 27, 2006)
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Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 490
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 70.160.37.222
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ethnic Intimidation (MCL 750.147b) is a felony punishable by up to two-years in prison.

To be considered ethnic intimidation by State law:

1) There was malicious intent to intimidate or harass another person because of their race, color, religion, gender, or national origin.

2) Physical contact was made OR your property was damaged, destroyed, or defaced OR you were threatened with words or actions to commit bodily harm.

(Message edited by warriorfan on August 27, 2006)
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Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 121
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.14.250.85
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah right, some prank. Thats the problem with attitudes like this. Normal people don't act like this. Animals act like this. I can't wait until this pussy aims his gun at the wrong person.
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Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 122
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.14.250.85
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

proverbial gun that is.
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Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 21
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 68.40.119.216
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Assholes come in all shapes, sizes and color.
Just like some folks think that hazing is funny, immature people who are powerless (and stupid) like to take their frustrations out on "weaker" prey.
It gives them a sense of empowerment. Sad.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2894
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.211.213
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IMO you were victims of a prank. Since your account mentions nothing about them referring to your ethnicity I am guessing that you are guessing it had that message. Maybe you should have laughed along with them once you gathered your wits.

Such events are rare but to be expected. Like Lmichigan notes those pranks cut both way. His however was real ethnic intimidation.

I have experienced similar pranks. I have also been relieved of my wallet with a gun to my head. So the real story is what actually happened.

I also know that the vast majority of people you will encounter are good, harmless folk that in another situation could well be your friends. Good folk always far outnumber the jerks but the latter steal all the attention.

Welcome to the forum.
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Spaceboykelly
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Username: Spaceboykelly

Post Number: 166
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.48.136
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gsgeorge, you stuck out like a sore thumb and some immature odler guys wanted to razz you & your friend. They did, and apparently it worked. Even to the point of disturbing the Ohioan.

Not everyone in this city is part of the welcome wagon, or thinks about the ramifications of every action they do. There's an obvious split in this very forum [of "come to Detroit!" people and "stay the fuck out" people]. Sorry you had to encounter the latter. There are plenty of the former.
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Publicmsu
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Username: Publicmsu

Post Number: 669
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.65.11.17
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's interesting that you have posted this. I had something oddly similar happen to me last Friday. My cousin and I were walking from Cheli's Chili where we were taking in the Tiger's game. After the evening ended, we decided to head back down Woodward to see if anything had changed, and as we were walking we came across a couple of guys walking in the same direction. We were walking pretty quickly and caught up to them, when one of them commented on us wearing sandals. He asked some question about having our toes stepped on. I said it didn't bother me so much. Then for some odd reason he insisted that he would flash his weapon. Immediately following this statement, he and his friend began laughing. I didn't feel threatened by it, and made a joke and then kept walking. I just find it odd that they were trying to seem 'tough' by telling someone they carry weapons. Was it meant to scare me? Who knows, I found it to be the wrong way to interface with others.

A very similar scenario to the original posters.
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Noggin
Member
Username: Noggin

Post Number: 67
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 68.40.106.164
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If a white person held up a rope noose and pointed at a black person it would make the papers and even the NAACP would get involved. It is simply double standards of unacceptable behavior.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 449
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 24.192.25.47
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, I guess I didn't read closely enough. I thought he actually did point a real gun at you, and I was disgusted with everyone's remarks saying you were being oversensitive...LOL.
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Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1260
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 69.136.142.0
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

400+ posts, here we come
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1293
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.130.18.100
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wouldn't be surprised if it was the same guys each time
somebody a while back had a similar incident in that area
maybe post descriptions and names of the clowns if/when learned and it'll turn out to be standard behavior for them, like a street version of certain posters here

(Message edited by lilpup on August 27, 2006)
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Vas
Member
Username: Vas

Post Number: 611
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 68.40.89.188
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't worry about it pal, just a few idiots making having fun at the expense of some white tourists.

Screw 'em. If it makes you feel any better they've probably fathered 7 kids to whom they don't care about and can't even pay off their flashy outfits.

Take my advice, avoid letting incidents like this warp your view. What they did had a racial bent. What I just said has a racial bent. Don't get caught up in this negative cycle.
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Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 23
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 68.40.119.216
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trash is trash be it white or black.
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Adamjab19
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Username: Adamjab19

Post Number: 714
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 24.192.148.148
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just avoid Capitol park. Terrible part of downtown whether this was a joke or not. Nothing to see there anyway.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1317
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Nothing to see there anyway."


Huh? That's holy ground--next to the BC. Isn't it?
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Ddmoore54
Member
Username: Ddmoore54

Post Number: 312
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.242.213.242
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Capitol Park is one for the only places in the CBD, that I will actually walk around when it is directly between point A and B.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2707
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.97
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gsgeorge, your worst sin was your choice of verbage in this thread title. You should have used "Prank Pulled on us in Capitol Park". You were by no means "accosted". But that's minor.

Yeah, I gotta agree, Capitol Park is not (yet) an area I would like to be traipsing about in.

I've had a "lets make the white folks squirm" incident pulled on me and my buddy about 15 years ago on Woodward near the DIA, but we ended up laughing right along with them (the pranksters), once we knew we'd been had...
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Vandykenjefferson
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Username: Vandykenjefferson

Post Number: 22
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 141.213.175.140
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GSGeorge - Do you know a man by the name of M. Lewis, or perhaps M. MArtin?

Thanks,
rob
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Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 947
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.14.30.175
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

gistok saith:


quote:

Gsgeorge, your worst sin was your choice of verbage in this thread title. You should have used "Prank Pulled on us in Capitol Park". You were by no means "accosted".




the american heritage dictionary saith:


quote:

ac·cost: To approach and speak to boldly or aggressively, as with a demand or request.




sorry, gistok, no deficiency in the choice of words used.
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The_aram
Member
Username: The_aram

Post Number: 5034
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.40.205.200
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

gsgeorge, are you a student at UM? your username looks familiar.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4256
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carl, from what I can tell, they were not approached. From what I can tell, they were the ones that walked towards these guys, if even it was to get back to their car.

And Warriorfan, you can quit the crap. You can't prove it was ethnic. The pot really needs to stop calling the kettle black.
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Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 491
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 70.160.37.222
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

And Warriorfan, you can quit the crap. You can't prove it was ethnic.




You're right, I can't prove it. But please tell me you aren't so naive as to think that two white guys walking around Capitol Park couldn't possibly attract some unwanted attention due to their skin color.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4257
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, in the same way I guess young black guys should garner unwanted attention from security at Somerset, right? Who knows? If you want to assume you can, but posting the points about ethnic intimidation (and bolding them as if it even mattered, at all) weren't appropriate or relevant. A fool scared them because they looked like out of place tourist. If you think that out-of-place black tourists/visitors from outside the city aren't messed with, than you don't know much.

Are you so naive as to think you weren't posting them to get a rise out of someone? HA! You're about as subtle as Rosie O'Donnell at a Las Vegas buffett.
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Super_d
Member
Username: Super_d

Post Number: 985
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.212.40.93
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wait a minute!__Lmichigan are you alright!__you are starting to make me proud!

Be careful 'y-t' will start calling you a racist!

Black-atcha!

super d(motordetroit)
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Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1360
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.60.143.186
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah but ignoring the fact that it happens to white guys because it also happens to black guys is just freaking retarded Lmichigan. It is terrible that it happens to ANYONE and I am fucking sick of people making excuses for it to happen at all.


And miming shooting someone is FAR FROM BEING A PRANK. You guys really make me sick.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4258
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess running up behind someone and yelling "Boo" isn't a prank either, then? You make me sick. Since what the man did wasn't a prank, then it must be criminal. And, if it's criminal he needs to be arrested and charged for a crime, right? Give me a f%cking break, Gumby. Talk about an over-reaction.
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Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 2386
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.29.74
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that this prank has it's origins in a comedy sketch where some black comedian went around pulling out a biz card and handing it to suburbanish white folks while shouting "bang!".
Some black dudes did something similar to me a few years ago, expecting me to be startled.
I just looked at em and said "Pow!"

End of story.
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Morena
Member
Username: Morena

Post Number: 486
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.242.214.135
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This kind of story happens every day throughout this country. It's ignorance.

It's how we, each of us, reacts that determines who wins and who loses. For example, if Gsgeorge and his friend never return to Detroit, then Detroit and Gsgeorge and his friend lose.

As for my comment on reaction, here's what I mean. No, Gsgeorge and his friend should not have called the guy an asshole nor should they have raced to the closest police precinct to report a crime.

Instead, learn from the experience by talking about it with others you trust. Ask how they would've reacted.

I'm a lifelong Detroiter and have experienced similar and far worst experiences during my lifetime. When younger, I fought and was fully prepared to get or give a serious ass whippin. Now much older, I think quickly and wisely.

Gsgeorge, I encourage you to keep visiting the City and seriosuly consider making it your home after you finish school. Detroit will continue becoming a better place with people like you.
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 293
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.246.10.215
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a 24 year old white male who has been living downtown for a year and a half I have been told by Black folks to get out of their city and have been intimitated by people based on what I believe to be because of my race. However, the number of times that has happened I can count on one hand and for the most part most of the people I run into are just as friendly if not more friendly than suburbanites.

You can't take it personally and you can't associate that attitude with Detroit. When you start to do that, you will start hating Detroit. Personally, I just remember that this city does not "belong" to anyone and that my family made this city home way before a lot of people were here but that once again DETROIT DOES NOT "BELONG" NO ONE TYPE OF PERSON.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4260
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And, that's the heart of the problem of Detroit and Southeast Michigan. When the great Southern migration brought large-scale black migration to Detroit, the racist city government pretty much rounded them up, stuck them in the worst parts of the city, and oppresively policed them to keep them confined to these ghettos. This completely polarized the black community, creating an opposing and hostile political force to be reckoned with when blacks took majority control of city government. Every action has an equal reaction, and the social state of the city shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. This doesn't have much to do with this particular incident, but it brings up the hard questions and problems all over again. In a perfect world, negative history wouldn't have any bearing on the events of the present and future, and people would instantly forget and start anew. In the real world, negative history dies a slow, painful, and hard death

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 28, 2006)
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Gsgeorge
Member
Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 68.40.192.192
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I'm gonna try and explore most of the issues covered here. I've been waiting this out for a bit to see a wide range of responses.


quote:

If the guy was not crazy, then he probably did what he did to make a statement to you and your friend that Detroit is still majority black and he didn't want you to forget that.



I tend to agree with this interpretation of said "prank", Royce.


quote:

Not everyone in this city is part of the welcome wagon, or thinks about the ramifications of every action they do. There's an obvious split in this very forum [of "come to Detroit!" people and "stay the fuck out" people]. Sorry you had to encounter the latter. There are plenty of the former.



Thanks for the wise comments, Spaceboykelly. In my past experience, I found many, many more of the former type. Many of you seem to think that I am letting this incident reflect the entire city; that would be absurd.


quote:

And miming shooting someone is FAR FROM BEING A PRANK.



I'd say so. In his view it may have been a prank. But there's a distinct difference between miming the use of a WEAPON and just yelling an exclamation.


quote:

For example, if Gsgeorge and his friend never return to Detroit, then Detroit and Gsgeorge and his friend lose... Instead, learn from the experience by talking about it with others you trust. Ask how they would've reacted.



Well said. This was my intention when posting it on the board.


quote:

You can't take it personally and you can't associate that attitude with Detroit.



Of course, not at all. I associate it on some small level with a certain portion of the population of Detroit (the "stay-the-fuck-out" crowd), but certainly not the majority.


quote:

gsgeorge, are you a student at UM? your username looks familiar.

Do you know a man by the name of M. Lewis, or perhaps M. MArtin?



Yar and yar. Hello, friends.


quote:

Gsgeorge, I encourage you to keep visiting the City and seriosuly consider making it your home after you finish school.



No worries, I'll be back.


quote:

This doesn't have much to do with this particular incident, but it brings up the hard questions and problems all over again. In a perfect world, negative history wouldn't have any bearing on the events of the present and future, and people would instantly forget and start anew. In the real world, negative history dies a slow, painful, and hard death



I think this is extremely important and well put, Lmichigan. As I said, I am not ignoring the history, but I am past it. Unfortunately these guys were not. Only time will eradicate our prejudices, and there will be incidents of strife for a long time into the city's future. The incidents will dwindle and wither, but never die. No one could ever, nor should ever, forget what happened in Detroit's history. But we must be able to say "that was wrong, and this is now, and we are stronger and wiser than that."

A few thoughts:
For those of you that think I keep a white hood in my closet: I don't feel like I have to defend my impartiality towards race. I'm the one trying to explore this problem and look at it objectively here.
Though I have no way of proving whether this guy did what he did because I am white, I simply can't see this happening to a black visitor in an identical or similar situation. Lmichigan, do you have any examples of this as you claim?

Thanks for everyone's responses, it's got me thinking...

(Message edited by gsgeorge on August 28, 2006)
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4263
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Double Post

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 28, 2006)
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4264
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

George, why do you and another keep insisting this wasn't a prank, no matter how bad of taste it was in? If it wasn't a prank it wasn't a crime, and you'd better report it. You can't have it both ways. The degree with which you act to a prank doesn't make it any less of a prank. It's really unfortunate the guy was a dick, and was trying to scare you and your friend, but it's either a crime or it's not, and is obviously wasn't regardless of whether he mimed a gun or a tennis racket. You're splitting hairs, and trying to have it both ways. With you insistence that this was more than a prank, I'm increasingly losing sympathy, empathy, and understanding of your situation. I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt, and with each response you're almost asking me to revoke that benefit.

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 28, 2006)
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 578
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.38.22.246
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 3:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C'mon Lmich, calling it a prank doesn't eliminate the race based intent.

As for the nigger slurs incident in Lansing that you described, do you expect us to believe that you think that those assholes are harmless and that they don't harbor racist attitudes against blacks in other aspects of the daily lives? We all know you're not that naive.

The Capitol Park "gunman" exposed his racist disrespect for white folks. It's not a huge deal, but you can't just focus on the prank-like aspect of the encounter and declare it racially benign. Plenty of black folks are racist. I've been the target of slurs and/or attempted intimidation enough times to understand that. Just deal with that reality. There is no way to excuse it.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4265
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Off course I'm not arguing that my situation wasn't raced-based, though reading back I can see how you could have thought I was trying to guess whether it was or not, lol. My point was that there wasn't much guessing to do, and that I expect that kind of stuff to happen. My point in telling the story was that there are stories where it is clear that things are race-based. His story, though one can make an assumption, is much harder to prove/substantiate the race factor.

My only problem is not whether it was race-based or not, one could argue that it was, and most likely was part of it. My hang-up is on trying to imply that it was more than a prank. Anything more than a prank is a crime, and should be followed through as such. Just because one person schitts his pants and one doesn't doesn't make it anymore or less a harmless prank, which is my only hangup. Call it what it is. You can argue effectively it may have been a harmless race-based prank. You can't, however, argue that it was a race-based crime, so quit calling it "more than a prank."

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 28, 2006)
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Illmatic774
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Username: Illmatic774

Post Number: 76
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 70.189.150.63
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 6:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah, the region shows it true colors. in daily life, and in this thread.

Before I go on my little tirade, I will say that IMO, the threadstarter is indeed putting WAAAAYY too much thought into this incident, but I find it great that he's willing to speak on this with the forum rather than be completely oblivious of what feelings are shared between the folks in SE Michigan. He's prolly never been experienced this kind of shit, and apparently neither has his friend, Mr. "Dude this is why whites hate Detroit"

Of course I think this was racial. I'd put my life on that answer. No he can't prove that is was race based, but how much fuckin evidence (i'm not cussing in a vulgar tone, i just do it to emphasize and I realize its not a very good habit) does he need? Must he had gone up to him and asked him for the truth if it was or not? It just seems like you're trying really hard to downplay (i know, I know, I'm sure you know that by now, heh, just by reading your first couple lines) it as just an immature gesture which could have been targeted to anyone, even a black person. LMich, I can understand your thoughts on these double standards, but this isn't that "perfect world", as you mentioned earlier where everything abides by a single standard. We just can't live with that "eye for an eye" mentality. "Would you still think it was racial if those guys at CP were some frat boys in AA?" unfortunately parallels "I see blacks call each oher niggas all the time, so why is it a big deal if we do?" It's all about getting even with some of these people, and thats what these people in CP tried to do; Trying to "get whats owed to them". It's not like they were brought here in the goddamn slave ships and worked to death, so why is it that that the white people of today have to paid their dues for what SOME of their ancestors did?

And I'm not either black or white (figuratively), I'm Mexican. I've been victim of HUNDREDS of these racial gestures. How do I cope with it?

"*sigh*...another dickhead"

and then my life moves on.

When it gets to the point when we build immunities to this BS, you know theres a problem in this region, but hey... thats life in SE Michigan.

But in conclusion, I'm sorry about what happened George. It really doesn't deserve to happen to anybody. You may have taken it a much more (maybe too much) to heart than some of us would have, but I can't really blame you.

And while I agree this was by no means a race based crime, I stil think you are being a little hard on George, LMich.
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Pam
Member
Username: Pam

Post Number: 412
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.107.47.65
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Anything more than a prank is a crime,




No, not really. You could call it harrassment or something else. Prank implies light hearted fun and since this wasn't funny to George and his friend I can see the reluctance to use the term "prank". However they were not harmed so it wasn't a crime either.
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Realitycheck
Member
Username: Realitycheck

Post Number: 353
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.41.173.240
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tuning in just now to this stimulating program already in progress, I'm taken by the self-reflective honesty many posters express . . .

. . . starting with George more than 30 hours ago back in post No. 1:

quote:

as young people with few prejudices, we don't care if he's black


I like that word few. Puts the rest in believable context.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2899
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.211.213
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While started from an unpleasant situation, where no physical harm resulted, this is given rise to a useful conversation on perceptions of race.

I find the posts of Lmichigan, Gsgeorge and Illmatic774 particularly thoughtful, level-headed and frank. They have resisted attempts by extremists on both sides to take the thread down in flames and are genuinely working for understanding.

Only Gsgeorge witnessed this event so when the constraints of 'What do you know', 'What don't you know' and 'What do you think' are applied we find most of this thread deals with the last case.

We know: A prank with uncomfortable overtones was pulled between two parties of different ethnicities in Detroit. Laughter followed and the prankees walked away unharmed; nothing further happened.

We don't know: Why the prankster chose to do it, his state of inebriation, his intent and if it carried a race-based 'message' or was a simple joke - unless someone here cares to claims the powers of mind reading.

What we think: Read this thread.

What I think: I am reminded of the old fable of the blind men touching the elephant and each one giving their opinion of what it is. It still shows we have a lot of race-related anxiety and a long way to go in Detroit and America toward resolving it. But at least we are talking...
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Eastside
Member
Username: Eastside

Post Number: 921
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 68.42.171.216
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think this "incident" means nothing. We got people getting killed who love and put their lives into boosting the city (Milt), yet all we talk about on this forum is stupid crap like this.
When I showed a couple friends Capital Park about a year ago, a group shouted to us "you whities dont deserve to live". Big f'n deal...it don't mean a thing. Start a thread about it??
We got a lot of lilly white suburban smug folks posting here I guess.
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Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 53
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 68.41.154.161
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe we whites should go to capitol park more often to prove we do belong there! I've been to that park I believe; that's where the original state capitol was right? Large bus stop shelter there too? That could be the problem, people waiting for the bus are bored, decide to amuse themselves by teasing us white boys.
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Gambling_man
Member
Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 838
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 199.178.193.5
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastside, not sure where you live exactly, but weekends at night in the city aren't a great place for a white guy. Since moving here 8 months ago, I have been called or yelled at various racial slurs at least a hundred times. It's very intimidating to be yelled at by a carload of black youths, looking like they are thug wanabees.....usually yelling something like "Go back to where you came from, Cracker"....and I'm used to it......
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7800
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I must be lucky - I have heard 2 racial comment directed at me in my years of living near downtown.
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Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 41
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.252.24
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"miming a gun"
Here in Texas if anyone tried that, they would either be shot, or doing 10 years in Huntsville. Black, white, what ever color you want to pick, its best not to try that here. That to me wasn't a prank. It put GS George in a life or death situation. If some one puts their hand inside their clothing, its perceived that it would be a gun, and people dont play with it comes to guns. GS George was lucky he didnt have a gun. How many of us, if we were in that same situation would not have pulled our own and finished the punk off. ALSO, please note, off duty police men carry their weapons. What would have happened if GSGeorge was an off duty police officer who happened to have this "prank" pulled on him. I guarantee, that off duty police officer would have fired and finished the punk off. End of story. GSGeorge mentioned these guys were in their 40s. They weren't in their teens.......enough said.
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Realitycheck
Member
Username: Realitycheck

Post Number: 354
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.41.173.240
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

that off-duty police officer would have fired and finished the punk off.


Huh? Because he was armed with a dangerous finger?

Another reason I'm glad not to live in Texas, Jane.

quote:

It put GS George in a life or death situation.


Oh, puh-leese. Trick-or-treaters better skip your door on Halloween, 'Triggerwoman.'

(Message edited by RealityCheck on August 28, 2006)
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Eastside
Member
Username: Eastside

Post Number: 923
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 68.42.171.216
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When feeling intimidated, just flash a gang sign that identifies you as a member of the Abba fan club.
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Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 42
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.252.24
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I should have stated in my prior post, in Texas you can carry a concealed gun, you just need a permit and training. Many people carry guns, especially women. I was raised in the country on a ranch, I've killed many snakes and coyotes on the ranch, as well as shooting at many cans and targets . I have even hunted when I was younger with my grandfather, and he had a big impact on my shooting abilities and my aim.
My own personal opinion, the 40 y.o prankster would have been history. Thanks for listening, Jane
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Cafe
Member
Username: Cafe

Post Number: 1364
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 84.162.75.233
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Next time fall down and play dead.
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Realitycheck
Member
Username: Realitycheck

Post Number: 355
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.41.173.240
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell constructively frames the essential truths of this self-led group seminar . . .

. . . and notes that BANGman's motivation is out of bounds

quote:

unless someone here cares to claim the powers of mind reading.


True, though it made me recall a prescient prediction in the very first line of George's very first post on this thread. Go ahead, scroll ^ and see for yourself.
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3693
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.38.23.116
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll just do what I do 5 times a week or more, make my bus transfer in Capital Park, usually without anymore hassle than asked for spare change or a cigarette.
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Gsgeorge
Member
Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 141.211.173.238
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell, thanks for summing up a lot of the ideas and conclusions that have been tossed around. Well said.



quote:

If some one puts their hand inside their clothing, its perceived that it would be a gun, and people dont play with it comes to guns. GS George was lucky he didnt have a gun.



I think this is a pretty significant point, one that my friend and I talked about. Neither of us own guns, and though I personally didn't feel this was a "life-or-death situation," I can see a gun owner considering the situation differently. In the heat of the moment, a gun owner may have brandished his weapon, and the guy would've been a goner.
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Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 56
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 68.41.154.161
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where can I go to have racial slurs yelled at me? All though I won't say stuff like this has never happend to me, at times when I was young and stupid and did not respect others as I do now, me and my buddies would be the ones hurling the racial slurs at indivduals walking by. That's why I guess when it happens to me, and it is a VERY rare occurance, like once every five years if that, I can think back to when I was a dumb punk and recall the ignorant frame of mind I was in, and I can let it go without dwelling on it.
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Cafe
Member
Username: Cafe

Post Number: 1365
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 84.162.75.233
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1996 Wilmington, N.C. I was driving to work one morning with my windows and sunroof open, it was like 3am...terrible time for me to drive to work...and this guy runs at my car yelling "white whore!" I yelled back, "Good assumption, but bad pick up line!" Of course, I drove off quickly. Sticks and stones. I was so tickled by my comeback that I really didn't care why he was yelling that at me.
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Realitycheck
Member
Username: Realitycheck

Post Number: 356
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.41.173.240
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cool perspective, Cambrian. Thanks (seriously) for expanding this e-chat with a new nugget -- a fine description of personal growth:

quote:

I can think back to when I was a dumb punk and recall the ignorant frame of mind I was in, and I can let it go


More honesty in a thread full of it (uh, honesty, that is!)
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 8742
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.53.98.91
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could it be that because Detroit continually ranks at the top for murders and shootings these people took it a little more serious? Not to mention the racial *shock* remarks from those who claim that racism is what keeps them down.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7801
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Not to mention the racial *shock* remarks from those who claim that racism is what keeps them down.




How do you know these specific guys have claimed that racism has kept them down. Pretty broad stereotype. I guess all them black people think alike and make the same claims.
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Cafe
Member
Username: Cafe

Post Number: 1366
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 84.162.75.233
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

good call Jt1.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 43
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.252.24
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Realitycheck, sorry you took it the way you did. Again, I posted how I would have handled the situation. Each of us would handle it differently if confronted. I make no apologies for my post, its how I would have handeled it. Had the 40 y.o "prankster" not put his hand inside his clothing where his hands were visible, that would have made an important factor in my decision. Have you ever noticed, that when police officers are involved in a shooting, especially , of an unarmed individual that is in a confrontation with that officer, that an internal investigation is held. I don't remember any past incidents where the officer was held responsible, and found guilty. Kind of gets back to what I was saying, when you play with fire, someday you could get "burnt" Thanks for listening...Jane
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 450
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 198.175.55.5
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was driving on Davison near Dexter a few weeks back, and some kid on a bike (doing that thing where he pretends to be oblivious that he's in the middle of the road, just riding in circles) yelled "whoa, white boy" at me. "Boy?" I thought...he was no less than 10 years younger than me.

I was upset after that situation, but only because I couldn't think of something to say back in time. Though saying nothing was probably best...
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 8747
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.53.98.91
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jt1, I am painting with a broad brush as many people can post stories of having racial remarks thrown at them.
I find it ironic that people who have been abused by racism (black people know their history whether they are millionaires or dirt poor) and know the effects would make a racial slur at someone else. But of course as with any story no one knows all the participants but folks like jt1 always bring that up. So how about no one discuss anything that happened to anyone because no one knows all the participants.

...Fence sitting at it's finest!
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7802
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I find it ironic that people who have been abused by racism (black people know their history whether they are millionaires or dirt poor) and know the effects would make a racial slur at someone else.




Does this go for people that have been abused by classism or any other type of means that have been used to hold peoples back. The Irish were not seen as model citizens and treated poorly in our countries history. Should we find it ironic whenever an Irish person makes a comment about another group?


quote:

So how about no one discuss anything that happened to anyone because no one knows all the participants.




So how about no one assume anything that an entire population thinks or says because no race, ethnicity, or any other large population all think alike.

Wuold it be safe for me to assume that all Native Americans are nothing more than people that run gambling halls or should I assume that they all think they are owed something by the federal government?

Many/most Native Americans know their history so should we make assumptions about all Native Americans?
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 8748
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.53.98.91
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Native Americans are both. They run only gambling halls (usually called casinos but hey, I'm not going to split hairs)and they are owed something from the federal gov'ts.

I do find it ironic if an irish person who lived under British rule would then hate and promote racism against an Australian. The Aussie didn't rule over him. You would think people who wre mistreated might get the idea that mistreating others puts them in the same boat. But as Gsgeorge stated, it was before his time, so why is this racism accepted?

You can make all the arguments you want. Racial slurs are just that. Stupid and pointless regardless of where they orignated from.
Just like some posters on this board. It is accepted and o.k because of who they are.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7803
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

You can make all the arguments you want. Racial slurs are just that. Stupid and pointless regardless of where they orignated from.




I agree 100%. My issue lies more with the assumption that all people that have histories of persecution would not do the same because of history.
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 987
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 70.88.106.173
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WOW! I did'nt realize the word 'BANG! was connected to amerikkkan terrorism, Jim Crow, lynchings, barbarism, slave trade, slave labor, and the like! (learn sum'em new 'errrvery' day!)

I always thought we(Blacks) were different from all other modern people owing to the unregulated and unrestrained violence directed at us__go figure!

Let's start writing kkkongress immediately! to get the word 'BANG' listed in the book as a 'race sensitive' word for 'y-t'!

Wait! before it's banned__ let me say it a few more times!

BANG! 'y-t' BANG!

super d(motordetroit)
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Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 773
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.209.128.112
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Racial conflict in Southest Michigan is off-the-charts. Actually, it seems to me that we've transcended mere racism in Detroit and have laid the groundwork for long-term social/economic/political conflict between two disparte groups (suburban/white and urban/black), like Coke vs. Pepsi or Republicans and Democrats.

Racism may have been the root cause of the conflict, but the conflict between blacks and whites in Detroit has taken a life of its own, and turned into a self-sustatining policial and social rivialry. Even if the two groups had no predisposition to think members of the other were "inferior", even if one could magically change the skin color of white suburanties from white to black, this conflict would march on.

This is because the long-term legacy of racisim has lead to structural changes in society that pit these groups aginst each other in a contest for resources and political control, and this contest will fuel conflict for many years.

Look at white Republicans and Democrats. They HATE each other because they threaten each other. Same deal here.

The race question is no longer about disabusing white people of their nasty prejudices or stoping unfair practices by business and government.

Sure, that needs to take place. But at the end of the day, you reach hard questions of allocating resources and political control, and race is irrelevant. Groups that have control or resources don't wnat to give them up. They don't want to give them up to anyone even if the anyone shares their skin color.

So for example, whites don't want affirmataive action becasue it means a loss of economic resources for them. The white job applicant has no interest in anyone getting the job other than her. Not her best friend, not another white, not a black, not anyone. She's not going to have some kind of Rodney King moment, realize that we should all just get along, and therefore support a policy that reduces her change of getting the job.

In a simliar vein, the black poltical establishment in the city doesn't want to lose control of they city. Not to other blacks, not to whites, not to anybody. Just like a white political machine in say Chicago has no interst in giving up power. To anyone, regardless of race.

I think the educated elite (like this forum) have fallen into the trap of thinking the race conflict is a "state of mind" and will evaporate if minds can be changed. Changing the mindset is essential, but not sufficient because we can't "wish away" these structural oppositions of interst. Countries go to war over these issues. We are naive in the extreme to think otherwise.

I fear that the worst days of racial conflict in Southeastern Michigan are ahead of it owing to collapsing economic conditions and shifting political and demographic boundaries.
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Super_d
Member
Username: Super_d

Post Number: 988
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 70.88.106.173
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

talk'n bout' fence riding! In this area you either pick a side or stand aside!

super d(motordetroit)
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Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1361
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.60.143.186
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just despise the general feeling that some people have that just because someone is white, what others say to them shouldn't matter. What if this was an African American walking through Livonia and some ignorant white guy did the exact same thing. I hardly think people like Lmichigan would just sluff it off as some stupid prank. All I am arguing for is some freaking consistancy. I stand by my statement that the people espousing these double standards make me sick.
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Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1362
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.60.143.186
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super_d I found one for ya.

Cock
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Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10517
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You should have retaliated, as if you were pulling out your own invisible gun. BANG! BANG! BANG!

ps...make sure you throw in "How ya like me now bitch?"
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4268
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had more time to think about this, and it's time for me to quit playing nice.

Let me layout for George and other white suburbanites/out of town-state visitors something:

1. As a white visitors/tourist you have more protection from the DPD downtown than any average, tax-paying citizen of Detroit could ever hope for in his or her neighborhood.

2. As a white visitor/tourist you are more valued by DPD and the city administration than any average, tax-paying Detroiter will ever be. In fact, so valued the entire downtown has been transformed for your usage, mostly, (drive in/drive out Comerica Park, Ford Field...) with heavy tax-paying subsidies from the increasingly poor Detroit citizenry who never see an equal return in terms of their own city services.

3. As a white suburbanite/tourist, you are given more immunity by Detroit criminals than any average, tax-paying Detroiter could ever hope for. To put it quite bluntly, black Detroiters are far more likely to be assaulted and/or murdered than any downtown visitors. Criminals know how much harder DPD will come down on them than they would if they harmed a "regular" Detroit citizen, as as I've said before, these visitors are more valued/favored than your average Detroiter.

4. More generally a black Detroiter visiting outside their city is FAR/MANY TIMES more likely to be a victim of a hate-crime/ethnic intimidation than you could ever imagine.

So, let's get real, here. Again, what happened to George and his friend was unfortunate, but I'm not going to let him or anyone else in this thread turn this into a referendum on the entire city of Detroit for a stupid prank. My sympathy and empathy doesn't lie primarily with the favored, my sympathy and empathy lies primarily with your average, tax-paying citizen of Detroit that has to put up with REAL crime, REAL guns (not fake-finger guns) on a REGULAR basis.

Really, let's put some perspective on this, and stop indicting Detroit on one bad incident. If you had to put up with even HALF of the ethnic intimidation a comparable black individual has to put up with outside of the city on a regular basis you'd have already cracked. It completely baffles me why many white individuals seem so incredibly scared of inner-cities. The only thing I've ever been able to pull from it is guilt, maybe? And, this is ESPECIALLY when you take into account how much greater black-on-black crime is than black-on-white. That's why I can't understand the absolute fear that plagues out of towners who are far less likely to be victim of a violent crime and/or hate crime/ethnic intimidation. I, as a black man, have MUCH more to fear from Detroit than he should ever fear. I'm much more likely to be mugged, assaulted, and/or murdered than George. Seriously, what are you so afraid of?

I'm going to get beat up for this, too, but suburbanites/non-resident visitors don't realize how lucky they have it. Despite not being city tax payers they are undisputedly the most heavily protected and valued city customers.

I'm not going to apologize for the fool, as I'm not a fan of pranksters. But, let's put some perspective and context on this.

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 28, 2006)
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Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 44
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.252.24
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich, anytime you want to hear a few choice insults and racial slurs I received in the first 2 weeks in July, just email me. I can't put that kind of filth on this board. Oh, just incase you wonder where I was when I along with 15 other female volunteers, I was gutting and removing debris from mold infested rotting homes in Treme, which is located in the lower 9th ward of New Orleans. I can tell you some of the most graphic names, as well as being called some of the most cruelist names ever. The thugs who run the streets of N.O love to go and taunt white kids, white college students, white church groups and organizations, as well as white senior citizens who have driven hundreds of miles,all in the name of helping their fellow man
After that kind of hell, you can believe me about the names whites get called when trying to help. And yes, there was the "you owe us" and "your people held us against our will" as well as stating that whites took their grandparents as slaves from Africa. These thugs were in their teens, so their grandparents couldnt be more than 50 - 70, so go figure. I guess its that N.O Pulblic school mentality.
I can tell you as a white female I had more slurs yelled at me as well as being in fear of my life while trying to help rebuild a city that blacks have no desire to assist in. Open both eyes Lmich please and be aware that racism sucks, but it goes BOTH Ways, its not only one sided. Thanks for listening . Jane
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4272
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not one-sided, but if you're going to try and argue that both sides recieve this to an equal degree, then you've already lost.

Again, who has more to worry about about their actual safety, George or your average Detroiter? The answer's pretty clear to me. It doesn't mean that it's any less important of meaningful if George was actually attacked than your average Detroiter, but let's put some perspective on this.

I've never denied that racism go both ways, but I'm trying to change the direction or the debate, and put some proper perspective on it. I'm not going to let people indict the whole of Detroit for the stupid action of one, ESPECIALLY when taking into account of how much more likely a black person is to be the victim of a hate crime/ethnic intimidation than a white person in Detroit.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 45
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.252.24
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I expect I won't win on this issue, so I'll just kind of drop it for my part. As far as gender, I can attest to the fact I am more likely to be a vicitm of a sexual crime than George . You mentioned hate crimes, well there are crimes other than hate crimes, sexual for one.

I dont have your answer LMich, but again, I have problems understanding what you are saying.

I hope other than this, things go well for you. I don't see any resolutions in sight for race relations, at times it seems its getting better, then other times it seems it couldn't get any worse.
Thanks for listening.........Jane
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4273
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, once you through gender differences in, than that kind of changes the whole equation, but we're talking race, here. Thanks for listening, as well.
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Merchantgander
Member
Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 2155
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.91.250.131
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

3. As a white suburbanite/tourist, you are given more immunity by Detroit criminals than any average, tax-paying Detroiter could ever hope for. To put it quite bluntly, black Detroiters are far more likely to be assaulted and/or murdered than any downtown visitors. Criminals know how much harder DPD will come down on them than they would if they harmed a "regular" Detroit citizen, as as I've said before, these visitors are more valued/favored than your average Detroiter.




This is true. Infact I keep a fake drivers license on me incase someone tries to rob me downtown. It has happen a few times since I moved to Detroit. Once the guy pulls out the gun, I pull out my diver’s license that says I live in GP (I have another that says I live in Chicago but since Ben Wallace signed with the Bulls I stop using it don’t want any retaliation for stealing him away.) it is like a get out of robbing me free card. The gun gets put away and we laugh and giggle for a little bit about his mistake high five each other then we are off on our merry way. I did sorry for the black guy behind me one time because he was rob by the guy. That will teach him to be black and living in the D. LOL
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Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 46
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.252.24
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

account of how much more likely a black person is to be the victim of a hate crime

I dont follow the "hate crime' card being played here. If a black kills a white, its a murder, if a white kills a black, it changes the equation then, its a "hate crime"
Whats with the preferential treatment in color when dealing with crime? Isn't it a type of discrmination against the white victim as opposed to the black victim? Isn't the white crime victims' life just as important as the black crime victim? I thought we were supposed to be all equal here? Jane
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4274
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You obviously don't know what a hate crime is. A "hate crime" is a crime against someone when the person specifically stats they are attacking someone because of their race. They must use a racial slur for it to be called a hate crime. The truth is, blacks are many more times likely to be a victim of a hate crime than whites.

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 28, 2006)
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 167
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.131.176.232
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm like 1/4 through the comments and I haven't seen anyone call you out on this yet... but why'd you assume that the men were Detroit residents? I think that starts to address the question of why they chose to pick on you....................
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Pam
Member
Username: Pam

Post Number: 415
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 4.229.102.104
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I'm not going to let people indict the whole of Detroit for the stupid action of one,




I don't hear anyone saying that. gsGeorge said:


quote:

Many of you seem to think that I am letting this incident reflect the entire city; that would be absurd.


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Detroitej72
Member
Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 154
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 66.184.3.44
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
1. As a white visitors/tourist you have more protection from the DPD downtown than any average, tax-paying citizen of Detroit could ever hope for in his or her neighborhood.
______________________________ ___________________

Tell that to the family of the white woman who was killed Super Bowl Weekend downtown.

However, I have to agree with Lmich. on most of his points. Having delivered pizzas in the Brightmoor area for a few years, I as a white man rarely had any troubles. My friend who is a black man was always being harassed and robbed on a regular basis.

The only explenation for this that I can come up with is the fact that I am white.

BTW, Couldn't any crime of violence against a person be considered a hate crime? I don't believe the perp would commit it if he/she loved the victim.
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 168
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.131.176.232
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Lmichigan's is basically end of story. So everybody else can stop bitching.

And Jane, if the federal government allowed something to happen to my city as it happened to New Orleans then I'd be cussing at everyone too.
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Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 47
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.252.24
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ihearthat, wouldnt it be better to rebuild the city than to waiting on the Fed Govt? This, "you owe me" mentality is only going so far. Beisdes, I thake it then that the people (volunteers) deserve this kind of abuse?

Besides, city govt for years chose to put money in advertising a big titi party on Fat Tuesday , instead of securing the levees. Also, the man who lives in his house knows it better than anyone else.

Unfortunately, money was never used for securing and maintaing levees, money that was dispersed for the most important reasons.Thanks, Jane
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4276
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitej72,

AGAIN, a hate crime is a crime perpetuated against another specifically because of their race. The attacker has to vocally throw out racial slurs if it's an attack against an individual, or write a racial/ethnic slur on someone's property if it's an attack against property.

No, any crime can't be a hate crime. Please people, look these things up. I'm sorry if I'm not explaining it well enough, but I don't see how anyone with even a basic understanding of a hate crime could infer that any crime can be a hate crime.

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 28, 2006)
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 169
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.131.176.232
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city of New Orleans didn't build those levees. The Federal Government built them and did less than a half assed job. The system failed those people at every level. I never said that volunteers deserved it... but don't come into a situation like that expecting all smiles and giggles.
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Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10518
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I can tell you as a white female I had more slurs yelled at me as well as being in fear of my life while trying to help rebuild a city that blacks have no desire to assist in.




You see, those teenage thugs won. You have reacted in a way that racists, white, black, or other feast upon. You generalized that NO blacks in N.O. care about helping. Or perhaps you always felt that way about blacks, they just got it out of you with a bit of prodding. Either way, that is exactly the reaction racists look for and feed upon.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4281
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't believe I missed that, though, I must admit I was much less interested in this N.O. argument that is really off the subject.

Jane,

That is really unfortunate that you think that. I wonder if you've ever even taken into account how many even have the wherewithall/means, white, black, or otherwise, to actually rebuild their homes? Of course you didn't take that into account. You're one of those people with the "white saviour" mentality who only went down there to make yourself feel better about yourself or more self-important. Really, what a shame.
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Paulj
Member
Username: Paulj

Post Number: 467
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 68.79.89.120
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ZZZZzzzzzzz....


Welcome to detroit. Embrace hate, pretentiousness, pettyness, violence, and property crime, or dont let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Here, your neighbors may not deserve much respect, but expect it at gunpoint.



Or alternately, bury your head in the sand and imagine the world around you in your own little warm, fuzzy, Albert Kahn designed wonderland.
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Detroitej72
Member
Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 158
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 66.184.3.44
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
AGAIN, a hate crime is a crime perpetuated against another specifically because of their race. The attacker has to vocally throw out racial slurs if it's an attack against an individual, or write a racial/ethnic slur on someone's property if it's an attack against property.

No, any crime can't be a hate crime.
______________________________ ___________________

Lmich, I know what the law is. I simply think its a waste of a law. If someone kills me just for walking by as opposed to shouting a racial slur before killing me, what the hell is the difference?

I'd still be dead and the perp should get the needle. It seems a bit redundant for the whole p.c. crowd to pass a law that basically reafirms the obvious.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4282
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some people don't like hate crimes legislation, as they think it goes too far. My opinion is that it wouldn't have even been needed if our country hadn't had such a particularly brutal form of ethnic intimidation/racial oppression for a First World country. It was a direct response to that, and it makes no sense to me to blame the vast majority of the victims for hate crime legislation. To ignore what lead to the legislation is revionist history, at best. I wish I could say we've come far enough, but when you have people still dragging live human beings from the back of pickup trucks just because of their race, it would seem short-sighted and irrepsonsible to try and portray that we've come to a point where this legislation isn't needed, anymore. Just my opinion.

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 28, 2006)
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Detroitej72
Member
Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 159
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 66.184.3.44
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree that we should punish the animals who perpetrate these crimes, but I still think the law can be redundant.
The monsters who would drag humans from behind a pick up truck just for their race would still be punished accordingly.

Thats my opinion, take it for what its worth.
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Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1119
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.218.152.148
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry, but was a crime actually committed?
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Wsugrad
Member
Username: Wsugrad

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 68.42.76.94
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Getting accosted in detroit is part of living here. it may be more benign some days and more malignant on others, but it is still a form of cancer. you either live with it or you don't. i choose to live with it, and fight every day to live in the city I love because as my pewabic tile says "life in detroit is worth living". A little thick skin, street smarts, sense of humor and a good attitude can get you extremely far in life (and frankly, less likely to get targeted or mugged in any city, not just detroit).
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4284
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't getting accosted a given if you live in ANY high-density/higher-density area? The more people you have living in a limited amount of area, the greater chance you're going to have to deal with people who don't share your viewpoints/values.
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Detroitej72
Member
Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 160
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 66.184.3.44
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
I'm sorry, but was a crime actually committed?
______________________________ ___________________

No, but you gotta love how we can change the whole topic for our own agendas!
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Paulj
Member
Username: Paulj

Post Number: 468
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 68.79.89.120
Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The more people you have living in a limited amount of area, the greater chance you're going to have to deal with people who don't share your viewpoints/values."

------------------------------ -------------------



there you go. I guess the answer must be to simulate killing people you dont agree with. that definately makes for a great quality of life.

please excuse me, i'm going to go around mock-executing those that I dont like now. you know, incinuating the murder of people who i dont like the looks of is the status quo, right? Love this town
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Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 534
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.246.29.185
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^
Yeah because we know this just happens only in Detroit right? Go to the black and Hispanic neighborhoods of Chicago, NYC and you'll see the same shit take place, by the same type assholes who just want to intimidate someone who looks out of place. (Message edited by eric on August 29, 2006)

(Message edited by eric on August 29, 2006)

(Message edited by eric on August 29, 2006)
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4285
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric, why are you only applying this to black and hispanic neighborhoods in big cities? This type of intimidation (i.e. making noose simulations, yelling racial slurs..) occur just as often (and I'd say MORE) in rural areas and suburbs depedning on where you are. And, unlike in this case, there is no question as to whether those examples are racially based. Again, let's put some perspective on this.

People can fool themselves all they want into thinking this stuff is more of a regular occurence in big cities than suburbs or rural areas, and that whites are more on the recieving end of ethnic intimidation. That's just not the case. This is not denying that this doesn't take place in cities, but I'm getting tired of a few of you trying to imply that this happens (proportionately) just as often in big cities as it does to minorities who travel outside of inner-cities.

(Message edited by lmichigan on August 29, 2006)
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Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1084
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know what the most ridiculous part of this conversation is? The arguing back and forth about "it is part of the city", "it is because of race X did something to race Y and now they need to pay for it", "get over it", "its just some dumb guys".

All those things may be valid. The problem is it doesn't fix anything. For how many decades now have races been fighting? And for how many decades is little to no progress made? Far far too many. Argue all you want, but you can't just say it should stop, and have it be so. People must be educated at what acts like this do not to other races, but to all of America. What they do to their families, their neighborhoods, their cities, their economic prosperity.

So instead, every time something like this comes up, we fall back into the same old garbage that gets spewed every time. One race blaming the other while the other race somehow justifies what they've done. In the end, everyone is a loser.

People shouldn't have to put with this. Doesn't matter where you live. If "this is life in the ghetto", then how do we change that life? It shouldn't matter your skin color, or your economic background, it should be learned what things like this do to everyone.

You want to say "just shrug it off". Maybe that is the thing to do. But do more than just that. And I applaud George for coming here to talk about his feelings and get this discussion going. If the entire country could have civil discussions like this, we'd be a whole lot better off, we'd have a whole lot more people alive today, and we'd have a whole lot more peace.

It almost reminds me of the Jews and the Muslims sometimes. It doesn't have to be that way. :-(
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Cafe
Member
Username: Cafe

Post Number: 1367
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 84.162.37.92
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 3:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a small point: A hate crime can be committed against a person due to their lifestyle as well. Hate crimes against gays are in the news all the time.

OK! Some people don't like people who are different than they are. Wow. The things you learn on this board are amazing.
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Justbeamensch
Member
Username: Justbeamensch

Post Number: 8
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 67.149.59.62
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 6:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had a very similar thing happen to us walking to our car a block east of Comerica after a Tiger game. I chalked it up to some punks blowin off steam but it does have an effect on future parking choices.
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Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 48
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.254.209
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Iheartthed, if you could take a second and read this. Also, monies directed for those levees for years have been used instead to "advertise" Mardi Gras and events leading up to it. It was a joke in N.O for years that one day, the "big one" was going to send N.O into the Gulf. Anyone living in N.O knew this 50 years ago. Louisiana has had some of the most corrupt politicians for years , and its only gotten worse
Enjoy, and thanks for listening.....

Speaker Dennis Hastert warned, "We all know that we have a fiscal responsibility throughout this process. We want to make sure that taxpayer dollars are being used for their intended purposes and not being misspent."
Rep. Tom Tancredo added his concern about how reconstruction funds will be used: "The head of the FBI in New Orleans just this past year described the state's public corruption as 'epidemic, endemic, and entrenched. No branch of government is exempt.' The question is not whether Congress should provide for those in need, but whether state and local officials who have been derelict in their duty should be trusted with that money."

Undoubtedly, the potential for fraud is as massive as the reconstruction effort, and some of this "cost offsetting" is tantamount to dumping unconstitutional pork from one plate to another.

\

(Message edited by janesback on August 29, 2006)
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Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 218
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.141.144.2
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

/\ wrong thread? /\
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1624
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerome speaks the truth.
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Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 909
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 4.229.69.38
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"DETROIT DOES NOT "BELONG" NO ONE TYPE OF PERSON."
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 174
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.131.176.232
Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So 1,000+ Americans died because they were scared of mismanagement? Let me repeat this, the United States Federal Government let 1,000+ American citizens die because they were scared of mismanagement. They were more scared of mismanagement than they were of letting 1,000+ Americans die (and it could have potentially been worse). Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I apologize, how silly of me.

On the flip, all the government has to do to explain their negligence, in relation to predominantly black governments, is allege that they were fearful of mismanagement. Why aren't you funding schools properly? Oh, well, they'll mismanage it! Why aren't you funding their social programs? They'll mismanage it! Why did you let thousands of people die? Well, the money that could have saved their lives might have been mismanaged! We couldn't have that, could we?

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