  Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 738 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.61.194.237 |
http://www.mlui.org/transporta tion/fullarticle.asp?fileid=17 081 | ||
Boss_hogg Member Username: Boss_hogg Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.178.225.98 |
i don't even know how to respond to this. is there some sort of magic federal pot of money funding this monster? | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 242 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.59.61 |
it's the same federal pot that is funding a $310 billion war for oil... costofwar.com/ | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1715 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Only the same pot that other cities manage to dip into. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 477 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Bogg_hogg: even the Canadians on this forum know that the US Government partially funds transportation projects. Maybe you need to brush up on your civics? | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 141.211.173.238 |
Light Rail really seems like the best option... deisel trains, with all of these proposed connections (not to mention pollution) would just cause confusion and trouble. And unfortunately there's a stigma surrounding busses, whether they're 'train-ized' or not, and they wouldn't attract many riders. If Detroit's going to finally get around to installing , they better pull out all the tricks in the bag and make this thing untouchable for generations. Otherwise, we're stuck with another poorly planned, obtrusive, unpopular, and irreparable system. | ||
Boss_hogg Member Username: Boss_hogg Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.178.225.98 |
As a US citizen of Canadian decent, I will tell you what I know about that magical federal pot of money: You need local match dollars. We currently don't have it. Not even if you combined SMART & DDOT. And - the bus union would never want that - they have made that quite clear. If anyone thinks I am poo-pooing mass transit - guess again: I take the bus almost every day. I would love a system that allows me to use it on the weekend & to go to the airport. So I ask again, where does the magic money come from? | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 478 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
No problem Boss, but your earlier post only mentioned a "magical federal pot of money" which happens to exist. You, of course, make several good points in your second post. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1716 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Can you elaborate? Other cities have both commuter rail and local transit, and it seems to work fine. Why would there be "confusion and trouble" in Detroit? Light rail really isn't cost-effective over long distances, which is why such a mode as commuter rail exists. A trip from Ann Arbor to Detroit on light rail would likely take at least an hour and a half one-way. | ||
Boss_hogg Member Username: Boss_hogg Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.178.225.98 |
While I'm not going to pick a winner here - "confusion and trouble" is always a possibility in Detroit - especially on a regional level. And we do have an air quality problem - specifically in Wayne County. Dan - I've seen you on here for sometime. Are you SEMCOGs fed lobby? Are they allowed such a thing? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1086 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
The local match dollars are pennies to what the feds will pay for the building of a transit system. The feds will mostly pay for the building of the system, but after that, the operation of the system is paid for by the state and local government, that is where the hitch is. But transit is beginning to been seen as a need around here. Just look at how the Foxtown Tigers train sold out in a matter of hours. Look at the support the SMART millage got, it was not even close. Look at how many people rode the busses down to the Super Bowl. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 909 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.242.215.8 |
Transit Riders United, a mass-transit advocate group, proposed a hybrid plan for the Detroit/Ann Arbor line. Comutter rail between the two cities with stops in Dearborn, Metro and Ypsilanti. A lightrail line would run along Michigan Avenue between the Dearborn stop and downtown and then head up Woodward to around 7 Mile connecting to the New Center stop. Check it out here: http://www.detroittransit.org/ Ann%20Arbor%20Detroit.pdf Go to page 6 to see the proposed map. Also, check out more about TRU at its web site: www.detroittransit.org | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 61 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Maybe now that the Big Dig in Boston ($14.6 billion - yes with a "b"!) is completed, maybe they can throw the Midwest and Detroit some scraps. I wonder what matching dollars Boston provided? | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 9 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 141.211.173.238 |
I'm of the opinion that if there is going to be any kind of mass transit in Detroit, it needs to be consistent, with as few 'connections' and tangential journeys as is possible with the current infrastructure. Commuter rail works wonderfully in cities **with other types of rail supporting the larger framework**. Chicago has its L, AND the CTA commuter lines. They work together, but without the L the commuter lines would be useless because of a lack of in-city travel options. Detroit needs to bring people into the city while at the same time improving transit conditions for its own residents, and Light Rail seems like the most viable option, allowing stops within the city and a continuation of some lines out into the Metro Area. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 594 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.20.185 |
Boss_hogg: Your concerns about pollution from a train's diesel engine are unfounded when considering how much pollution from cars would be eliminated. I'd guess that a train carrying 200 people pollutes less than 200 cars do. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1718 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
The Massachusetts match was provided by the Mass Pike Authority and the state government. Chicago gets federal money for transit. Cleveland gets federal money. Detroit got $100 million for the study in question. You don't just get handed transit money, though. You have to apply for it--something Detroit and Michigan have historically done very poorly.
I agree that there needs to be a "local" form of rail transit in conjunction with commuter rail. Note that one of the options under study is a light rail line in conjunction with a commuter rail line, as proposed by TRU. Light rail is simply too costly and slow to travel over the kinds of distances (50+ miles) proposed. Note, however, that cities like Nashville and Albequerque, among others, have started, or are starting commuter rail lines without a local rail transit system. The main problem with bringing commuter rail into Detroit is that the train station is not in the CBD, so a transit connection would be necessary. It could theoretically be done with buses. | ||
Boss_hogg Member Username: Boss_hogg Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.178.225.98 |
Burnsie - Diesel pollution is not exactly the same as car pollution (unless of course, your car runs on diesel...which most cars in our area do not) | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 595 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 35.12.23.105 |
My point is that when a train carries a sufficient number of people, its pollution is less than what there'd be if all those people were driving their cars instead. Gasoline is not cleaner than diesel when hundreds of times more of it than diesel is burned. Obviously if only three people were riding a train, the train would be polluting more than if those 3 people were driving their cars. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4913 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Light rail transit would be the greatest option for those who want to get from Ann Arbor, Pontiac, Flint, Mt. Clemens, Lansing to Detroit and back. Folks in Chicago have their mass transit. Detroit should get one, too. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4292 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
No, light rail is good for cities and metropolitan areas. Between metros, especially to Lansing, heavy rail and preferably high-speed rail, are the only way to go. The distinction between light and heavy rail needs to be made. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 453 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.194.88.24 |
True, the Red Line in Chicago is only about 20 miles long from far North to far South. Though Chicago's El (and most subway-based systems) are heavy rail, it shows the separation between local rail transit and commuter trains. (Message edited by focusonthed on August 29, 2006) | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 150 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
the area recieved a $100 million appropriation from SAFETEA-LU (Federal Transportation Law) to build the transit line. SE Michigan will need to come up with money to match this (usually about 20 percent of the project cost, making it a $125 million project) and they also need to find the magic exlir that will allow this project to continue, while allowing 95 percent of the current system to continue to operate. A reduction in duplicative service along the Michigan Corridor would make sense, as would a reduction along Woodward once that line is ready to go. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 202 Registered: 04-2006 |
I publicly challenge the Transportation Riders United and SEMOOG on this study because I increased SMART and DDOT bus rider-ship and also lowered the per passanger costs. I know that my ideas will work because I work in the industry and know what the standards are to make this work at the lowest cost. Let's debate this on television and I will prove to all that my ideas will work. Let's all put our minds to work and make our best idea's connect everyone together. Or, you can all support the big multi-billion dollar MDOT/SEMCOG freeway expansions. Get all the facts at the new and improved website http://savethefueltax.org | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 175 Registered: 03-2006 |
this thread was dead, like you should be...at least as far as forum privileges go, Fred phelps of public transit | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1341 Registered: 11-2003 |
Trainman is our resident transit-thread bumper. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 210 Registered: 04-2006 |
Livonia voters were told that without paying at least another $300. per year on property taxes that SMART will shut down. MDOT and SEMCOG wanted to scare off the Livonia voters, so they can pocket the money and give themselves big pay raises for more studies and federal grants to load their pockets even more. AND IT WORKED!!!!! Congratulations to you all DARTA supporters and the SMART officials who signed the agreement. Y'all got want ya wanted and thats more money for freeways and rail by taking away from the crippled and handicapped. DARTA SUCKS. |
