  Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6706 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Detroit mayor, police chief to attend violence summit Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick and Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings will be in Washington, D.C., today at the National Violent Crime Summit, hosted by the Police Executive Research Forum, which will address a nationwide surge in violent crimes. Detroit's year-to-date violent crime statistics show a 14.6% increase in homicides and 18% increase in nonfatal shootings. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060830/NEW S99/60830006 | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 1057 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Is Kwame going to check his gun at the door? Livedog2 | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 13 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 12.32.128.68 |
How does a city that is losing population have a double digit % increase in serious gun related crimes? Are these figures per capita? Are they straight up? Will Kwame be taking notes, or playing X-box in his SUV during the summit? Maybe if they consolidate some more police stations the criminals will give up for lack of opponents. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 1058 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
That's good, Tkshreve! Livedog2 | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1261 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
eliminated, lol | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3709 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.21.32.91 |
Will Steve Wilson be there? | ||
Mthouston Member Username: Mthouston Post Number: 434 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
Thats funny.......  I hope so. Makes great TV. Mindless but entertaining. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1791 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.137.86 |
Why did the mayor have to be there? Was he afraid that police chief Ella Bully-Cummings would spill the beans and tell other law enforcement officers how bad it really is here in Detroit? BTW, I heard a rumor that Bully-Cummings used to be married to Wayne County sheriff Evans. Can anyone confirm or refute this? | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6710 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.136.149.133 |
William Cummings is her first and only husband. Did you know that she was born in Japan? | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1793 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.137.86 |
Thanks, Itsjeff. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1144 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.60.45.70 |
Hmmm, born in Japan, I guess she can never become President. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4925 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Violence in Detroit to be eliminated? HAH!!! VIOLENT CRIMES CAN NOT BE STOPPED. IT MUST BE CONTROLLED. It's going to take more that a lousy law enforcenment summit to increase security in Detroit. Wait til I turn the news to see brothers killing brothers in the ghetto. | ||
Dpd_blue Member Username: Dpd_blue Post Number: 158 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 67.149.19.111 |
Ella was married to Warren Evans!!! Cummings was her 2nd or 3rd husband. | ||
Planner_727 Member Username: Planner_727 Post Number: 36 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 69.87.150.106 |
I thought the title of this thread would have lead to a link to an article in "The Onion"! Eliminated? How about a reasonable goal of control! | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 69.246.45.147 |
Or a reasonable goal in reduction? My brother works at the Starbucks on Griswold and said some old man was mugged in front of his store. Fortunately, the vigilante justice that is required in this city took over: Two men chased the mugger down and beat the living piss out of him, holding him till police finally got there. The man, bloodied and all, was arrested. The asskickers were not. Hey, I say the PD hires these two and sends 'em out on patrol. Give 'em the key to the city while they're at it! | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 25 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Were they ex-Stress officers? | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 29 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I would think that the mark of a good police force would be how quickly and if the right criminal was caught AFTER the crime was committed. How can police eliminate or even prevent crime given that police are called on after the crime is committed.To prevent crime,you would need a police presence in numbers thats unrealistic for a city like Detroit. Or you need laws such as manditory gun control which is something police has no control over. | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 69.241.238.29 |
Gun laws are already on the books. How often do Detroit prosecutors go for the full statutory five years that can be drawn for carrying a handgun without a CCW permit, though? Laws are pretty much useless if authorities won't enforce them. | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 209 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.246.214.35 |
I was at the National Violent crime meeting last week in Washington and the mayor and police commissioner were there as well. Keep them home and save the city more bad press. | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 69.241.238.29 |
People have to learn that actions have consequences. If that means taking teenagers and throwing them in the hoosegow for five or ten years on firearms charges - or life without parole for young teen killers - so be it. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 496 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.160.37.222 |
Except that we don't have the prison space to do this. The reason Wayne County has a revolving door criminal justice system is because they have simply run out of room at the jail and at the prison. We are in a situation where criminals are serving just a fraction of their sentence, or sometimes just let off with probation, because there is no room to house them. It sends the message that crime carries with it no consequences if you get caught. Case in point, one case that I personally know of. A 17-year old Detroit teenager arrested for armed robbery was let off with probation. He received no prison time for sticking a gun in some store clerk's face and demanding money, I'm sure his being under that "magic" number of 18 probably played well in his favor too. Now what kind of message do you think this kid received? He got a slap on the wrist for one of this state's most serious felonies, and was released back on to the streets. Do you think he learned his lesson, do you think he was "scared" away from committing more crimes? | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 20 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 69.241.238.29 |
That's a structural problem that Granholm, among others, must own up to. For a state like Michigan, high violent crime numbers are a big drag on development. Let's be honest. We are trying to lure companies and jobs to the region, and those companies already have to deal with quite a few stereotypes about the nature of our economy, its future direction, etc. Then on top of that, we tell them "Hey, oh, by the way, you're also a lot less safe here than most other places, and crime is still increasing." That's just not acceptable. If we have to house inmates in tent cities like they do around Phoenix, and heat them in the winter just enough to keep people alive, so be it. | ||
Illmatic774 Member Username: Illmatic774 Post Number: 77 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 70.189.150.63 |
"Violence in Detroit to be eliminated" The sign of the times...lol | ||
Dillpicklesoup Member Username: Dillpicklesoup Post Number: 166 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 64.7.187.108 |
here is how to eliminate crime in detroit- give all these acting out folks a one way ticket to iraq and put them on the front line- and put the boys and girls with bayonets behind them- it worked for the russians- | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1306 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.205.235 |
Does anyone have stats on average sentence time served for various crimes (armed robbery, theft, etc) in Detroit/Wayne County versus other large cities? Is it a lot worse here than, say, in Chicago, in terms of people getting off with little or no jail time? It does seem like a big problem. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1156 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.60.45.70 |
They need to build a new Dehoco. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 717 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
The violence in Detroit is just a small part of the violent crime wave that has plagued our country for the last few decades. The city of Detroit has cut 1000 cops over the last 4 years due to the budget problems, so I wouldn't count on them to start making a big dent in our crime rates. The county and state cops could care less about curbing violence in Detroit. The only time you will see extra cops in Detroit is when they set up the seatbelt ticket traps. The Nazis in Lansing can always find enough of our tax dollars to pay a dozen cops to sit at 7 & Gratiot all night writing seatbelt tickets, but there is never any funding to send out these same cops when there is a shooting in the same neighborhood. The state can't spare a dime for extra beat cops in high-crime neighborhoods. but they can afford to pay a dozen cops to work a seatbelt ticket-writing trap. You can't count on the cops to show up when you are dodging bullets, but you can count on them to give you a seatbelt ticket if you live long enough. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6751 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.136.149.133 |
So, Erikd, how much was your seatbelt ticket? | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 718 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
Don't expect any real reduction in violent crime in Detroit, or anywhere else in America. Nothing will be done to combat violent crime in America because nobody gives a fuck about it. The number of American soldiers killed during the war in Iraq has been the top news story for over a year. Everybody knows how many Americam soldiers have been killed in Iraq over the last 4 years. Hillary Clinton has been booed by Democrats for her support of keeping troops in Iraq. Lieberman lost the Democratic primary because of his support of the Iraq war. We have had anti-war marches all over the country to protest the loss of American soldiers in Iraq. The American death toll in Iraq has become the primary issue in recent elections. Here is a pop quiz: How many American soldiers have been killed in Iraq from 2003 to 2006? Most Americans would guess a number close to the current count of 2647. This question is a little harder: How many American civilians were killed in the city of Chicago from 2000 to 2003? Chicago is one of the best cities in America, but the 4 year murder total of 2543 puts this great city neck and neck with the number of Americans killed while fighting a war in Iraq. I don't mean to downplay the deaths of our soldiers fighting a war, but I don't understand why a similar amount of killings in Chicago is totally ignored by Americans, and is not even an issue in our poliical races. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1746 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.126.34 |
Start an anti-war thread...........this thread is about violent crime and you are completely wrong that no one gives a fuck about it. Maybe the powers that be in Detroit don't give a fuck or are to stubborn or stupid to but one need look no further than NYC to see that violent crime can and has been reduced significantly. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 719 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
I shouldn't be too surprised by the lack of concern about violent crime in America, because it has been a non-issue for decades. The recent outrage over the war in Iraq has the American public more upset than any time since the Vietnam War. The loss of American soldiers during the Vietnam War was far greater than our current losses in Iraq, and the anti-war movement changed the country. The loss of 58,209 American soldiers during a war that lasted over a decade is an incredible loss of life, but it pales in comparison to the incredible numbers of American civilians that are murdered in this country every year. There is no hope for any significant reduction of violent crime in America if we continue to be outraged by a small amount of killings of Americans soldiers fighting wars, and ignore the incredible amount of Americans civilians killed in this country every year. A Google search of "US murder total" results in a top hit of the US casualties in Iraq. The number 5 hit is a link to some DOJ murder statistics. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/h omicide/intimates.htm A quick look at the homicide numbers in America is shocking. A wartime comparison is sickening. If you add up the very unpopular Iraq and Vietnam wars, we have about 15 years of war with 60,856 American soldiers killed in combat. The DOJ crime statistics in the link above give the US murder totals from 1976-2004, which is basically the peace time between the Vietnam and Iraq wars. It seems that the Vietnam war protesters accomplished their mission after the end of a ten year war that resulted in 58,000 dead American soldiers. The murder of 577,574 people in America between 1976 and 2004 was mostly overlooked, but after 2000 soldiers died in Iraq, the protesters started coming out in force. The sad reaility is that Americans don't give a shit about fighting violence in our country. 15 years of war in Vietnam and Iraq = 60,000 dead American soldiers and an outraged public demanding an end to the killing. 30 years of peace between wars = 600,000 dead American civilians and a public that doesn't give a fuck about it. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 498 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.160.37.222 |
What about the murderers in Detroit receiving protection from those who live in the neighborhoods? You don't think that people know who commits these murders, you don't think people see them? And yet virtually no one comes forward, no one talks to the police. Some of them keep quiet out of fear, but there are people in this city who actively protect these criminals. Remember the "Don't Snitch" videos in Baltimore? The cool new trend in Baltimore was for urban youths to wear "Stop Snitching" t-shirts. It's almost like a street culture, where you don't ever cooperate with the police (because they are the enemy) and the drug dealers and murderers are like Robin Hood. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1802 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.183.232 |
Ericd, it's a lot easier to protest the deaths of soldiers in wars that are considered unjust or unwinnable. Our troops don't have to be there. However, it's a lot harder to face the violence here in the U.S. when it is occurring amongst our citizens. From racism to poverty, where do you even begin to attack the problem of violence in this country? Attempting to eliminate guns is useless since so many Americans want to protect their right to bear arms. Giving more money to help people get out of poverty is frowned upon because it requires taxing people. People are not willing to pay more taxes to help the poor and the rich are not going to volunteer to give up their current lifestyle and riches to make things more equitable. The fact is this country and the mind-set of the citizens is one of reaction instead of prevention. No one is willing to give every student who wants to go to college $25,000 for college, yet no one considers that they're being taxed to house a prisoner in jail for that same amount of money for a year. If the money was given to the college-bound student, then they would be done with college and earning a living in four to five years. The prisoner might be serving a life sentence. Now society has to pay $25,000 for up to 60 years to keep that prisoner locked up( say that the prisoner is 20 when he entered jail and lives to be 80). When doing the math it is obvious that giving the $25,000 up front to the college student is cheaper and a much better investment. In addition, not until the violence that plagues Detroit and other urban areas becomes a daily occurrance in the "safe" suburbs, will any major legislation by congress be passed or executive order by the president be decreed that puts a stop to it. We must hope that luck is on our side or a revolver next to our pillow to make it through life without becoming a crime victim. I'm convinced that our government doesn't have the balls or cares to really protect us. They'll just continue to give us lip-service. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 499 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.160.37.222 |
Yes, but that is operating under that assumption that these kids will actually WANT to go to college given the chance. A public high school education is completely free, you don't even have to work for it really, just show up for the minimum number of days for four years and then collect your diploma. And yet 50% of Detroit youths do not avail themselves of this FREE opportunity. Something tells me that the ones who stick with it and graduate from DPS aren't really the kids we have to worry about, but you can't say that "throwing money at the problem" is going to do a damn bit of good when it's the kids themselves who have no interest in going to school and the parents who have no interest in making them go or getting involved in their education. | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 69.241.238.29 |
Violent crime in the US actually declined dramatically between 1992 and 2002. The decreases were enormous. Now violent crime is rising again in cities like Detroit, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, and others. This was a predictable trend; a lot of it has to do with people sentenced a decade ago under "tough on crime" laws now being released. Successive governors in Michigan and elsewhere failed to plan for this eventual reality, and now crime is spiking in Detroit, Saginaw, Flint, and other cities traditionally plagued by violent crime. The solutions need to be multi-pronged. Those who are actually guilty of violence do need to be jailed, perhaps for life. This removes the most violent elements from neighborhoods, and gives the remaning residents some room to live without the Damocletian sword of thuggery swining above their necks. Then, social services and aggressive youth intervention is required to keep the next generation from going astray and fighting over the criminal vacancies left by the now-incarcerated felons. As for guns, they will never be either banned, and if they were, the ban would be ineffective. So, that's a dead letter. But that's not really a problem; laws are alreay in place to penalize people who carry in public without a Concealed Carry Weapons permit. And yet, how many such prosecutions do we see under that statute? Don't blame the law for failing to enforce itself. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 421 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 70.137.105.235 |
I will tell you the problem, it is quite simple. I have spoken to several police officers in the city of Detroit. Everyone knows that while driving in the city of Detroit you do not have to have a license. Most officers do not pull people over for speeding tickets anymore. I have been told by several officers that it is a waste of time. Even if they did start pulling people over and take them in for no license and put them in jail, the criminal would beat the officer home because there is no room in the jails. So, everyone drives freely in the city, carries whatever weapon or drug they want, because there is a very good chance that they will not be stopped. The first step is to correct this. Have these thugs scared to drive in the city. The same thugs that are afraid to go across 8 mile. These thugs don't go to Eastpointe driving because they will get stopped with bad plates on their cars. They don't do it because the the city of Eastpointe won't tolerate it. Detroit has to make it known that it won't tolerate this. I don't know how to exactly do this, but until the no tolerance for the simple things is put into place, you will never see the crime rate decrease. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 422 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 70.137.105.235 |
Oh, I have an idea. Why not have GM, Chrysler and Ford donate a whole bunch of cars to be used as undercover cars. Open up some of those old police stations that they just recently closed as holding cells (do a little renovating to increase the number of cells, but not make it too comfortable for the thugs). Hell, I wouldn't mind paying a little extra in taxes for this. Just to get the city back on track. There would also be income coming in from this. Most of these thugs out here driving with suspended license would have their hoochie come and bail them out anyway. They won't stay in there too long....hence $$$$$$. Let's call it: Operation "Take that shit across 8 Mile". (Just kidding | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 721 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
Citylover, Your response is a perfect example of my point. Just like the vast majority of Americans, you don't really care about the incredible amount of violent crime in America. You just blow it off as a local problem that doesn't warrant any attention from the state and federal governments. You always try to use the incredible crime reduction in NYC as proof that crime can be dramatically reduced at the local level, and therefore, it is not an issue that needs to be addressed by the state and federal governments. NYC stands out as a rare example of dramatic crime reduction in an American city. You can't pick out a rare example of an incredible turnaround (done in the biggest and most important city in America), and wonder why Detroit hasn't done the same thing. We can always find a few examples of success stories rising out of a sea of failure. There are a handful of poor schools in the ghetto with unusually high graduation rates and test scores. There were a few businesses that had huge growth and profits during the Great Depression. There is a small number of kids that become very successful despite being raised in a crackhouse by a junkie/hooker mother. ------------------------------ ----- The fact remains that the vast majority of Americans, like Citylover, don't really give a fuck about violent crime in America. 600,000 people have been murdered in America over the last 30 years, murder rates are skyrocketing all over the country, and it is a non-issue in the current elections. In any other civilized country, this level of violent crime would never be tolerated by the citizens. The American way of dealing with an increase in crime is to move a few miles up the street, wash your hands of the whole issue, and then point a finger at your old neighbors and say that 'those people' need to 'do something' to fight the rising crime. As long as Americans continue deal with our crime problems by running away, and expecting somebody else to fix them for us, there is no hope of any real change. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4379 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.177.81.18 |
A-f%ckin'-men, Erikd. As long as these murder rates are "someone else's problem" not a thing will change. We can only run and sprawl so far...and each block and square mile at our own peril. So, the country is content with making inner-cities the dumping grounds for the hopeless, desparate, and infirm all scrapping the same bottom of the same barrel for the last vestiges of economic empowerment in these divested inner-cities? Are they also content, then, with the negative consequences that come with that choice? Are they also content with paying the costs of this decision? The anwswer is no, which is why there are very few that speak on the issue that hold much credibility with me, as they never think any further beyond the foolish ideology that we all exist as our own separate islands apart from another. You know, the same ideology that says there is no such thing is social science, that everyone exists within a separate vacuum, and that our personal decisions don't effect anyone else. It's a dangerous ideology that is going to be hard to crack. And, you're right, Erikd. In any other First World country, this wouldn't be tolerated. It's ironic, then, that the one that proudly boasts of itself as the best thing since sliced bread is the same one with that tolerates, and thus supports, this country's urban genocide. Indifference and apathy are a bitch, aren't they? (Message edited by lmichigan on September 09, 2006) | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 23 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 69.241.238.29 |
The problem, very broadly, is that murderers tend to look like thier victims. It's mostly gang-on-gang; black-on-black. Wider society doesn't particularly care about THOSE murders, especially since they've been ongoing for decades, and have come to be seen as a structural fact of Detroit life - not as something malleable or changeable. |
