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Light Rail In Detroit - 1Naturalsister100 09-07-06  12:46 am
Light Rail In Detroit - 2Milwaukee94 09-14-06  12:41 pm
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1327
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.1.1.154
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

It wouldnt make sense to have any light rail until we have one transit agency that is responsible for all bus and possible rail service. As DARTA died so did my belief that this is possible, well at least any time soon.



I also used to believe that DARTA was a necessity to get better mass transit, I no longer believe that. It's pretty clear to me now that we need some smaller-scale high-quality starter project along a major transit route (e.g. Woodward and/or Downtown-Airport) which can be managed by a new agency if necessary.

We need a successful starter project as an example to work from before we even think about any multi-billion dollar regional system coordinated by DARTA. There's too much cynicism in the larger metro area (as evidenced by this thread) to try to pull something like that off first.

Back to the starter project: We have the perfect opportunity with the $100 million federal grant for the Ann Arbor-Detroit line to make this happen. Choose the best alternative (probably CRT+LRT), and create the proposal for the Wayne/Washtenaw county sales or property tax for operating funding. GIT-R-DONE.

So I wouldn't get too worked up about the moribund status of DARTA. Lots of cities with successful transit have multiple transit agencies.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4426
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DARTA could very easily be the transit authority for a line to Metro-Downtown, and Woodward. This could be their successful started project. I don't see why we should dismantle DARTA, instead of simply scaling back plans for a massive regional system. DARTA could easily be made the overseerer of the Metro/Downtown, Downtown/Oakland County (Woodward) route. All this while DDOT and SMART figure out what they want to do. I think DARTA can be a catalyst to force the issue of effective, regional mass transit, focring DDOT and SMART to decide their futures.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 114
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.95.237.129
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anybody use the amtrak that runs through the area to get from Ann Arbor to Detroit or Pontiac? It seems like Detroit may just be a car city. It is the birthplace of the automobile.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 191
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to go to Lansing myself and get an increase in the gas tax for mass transit and the full ten percent. Then, I want to coordinate the buses with schedules and make them safe.

Please support my efforts.

http://savethefueltax.org
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4428
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.177.81.18
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Milwaukee, that's another excuse that doesn't cut it. There are many more cities that are more car dependent than Detroit. I've said this before but GM may have played Detroit first, but it didn't play it worst. Detroit may be a car city, but definitely less so than the larger cities of Houston and LA, and quite a few other metros near its size. It's not that Detroit is so much a car city, but no one has taken the leadership on mass transit, and the fact that there is almost NO regional cooperation on ANYTHING. Rail in Detroit would flourish better than in ANY of these new sunbelt sprawlers with rail.
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Dtown1
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Username: Dtown1

Post Number: 139
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.229.255.110
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agrre with you Milwaukee. most people dont even use the train station on Baltimore st. in the new center. That's mainly an industrial throughway overall. Detroit has always run on cars ever since they were built. I dont think a light rail would effect anything, especially if the transit department chrges charges an arm and a leg to ride. That may happen if one is built then we will have more abandoned railroads. We already pay $2.00 to ride on a ragedy bus. The area has no point for a light rail. Boston has short lived and smaller roads. That's why they have a light rail. If we did put a commuter rail along highways, that would increase the commute times waiting for the trains to pass through.


Now I do agree with the bigger bus plan. I heard Chicago's buses run on uranium and uranium doesnt give out hardly at all like gased powered engines does. Now combine that bigger bus system while making uranium run buses. That will not only increase service and lower maintenance, but it will also be representing our nickname THE MOTOR CITY.
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 1342
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dtown1, I don't think the buses there run on Uranium.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2006
Posted From: 69.208.246.38
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I think DARTA can be a catalyst to force the issue of effective, regional mass transit, focring DDOT and SMART to decide their futures."

Lets hope thats the case.
As for the amtrak station in new center the low ridership probably has something to do with the fact that tickets are 10 dollars one way and depart about once an hour. I also dont believe that those trains stop at the airport which would probably produce a much higher rate of ridership as I think everyone hates paying for long term parking at Metro. Besides, the light rail would be from what I gather will be local service within the immediate region so looking at the amtrak ridership numbers really isnt an good indication of how succesful or not light rail would be.
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Dtown1
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Username: Dtown1

Post Number: 145
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 70.229.255.110
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hysteria, tis isnt a widespread plan yet in Chicago, but they are test running it for possible usage to control the global warming rates. It's also proven that uranium will work for cars, its been proven since the 70s
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 46
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As it has been mentioned, LIGHT rail is not Amtrak. The riders and demand are completely separate from each other... ridership on one is completely independent of the other.

Just messing around, I was looking at prices for local service... I work next to the Royal Oak station and we were talking about prices from Pontic, Birmingham, Detroit, back and forth. The price from Pontiac to Birmingham was about $10. Birmingham to Royal Oak was $9. Pontiac to Royal Oak was $10. Pontiac to Detroit was $11. The red-eye to Chicago (about 15 times the distance) was $25. Amtrak, or 'heavy rail' is not priced for local traffic. Bottom line. If there were a stop at the airport, that would likely generate quite a bit of extra traffic... even $20 or $30 round trip is better than a cab or $25 a day to park in the McNamara Garage.

Also, the Baltimore station doesn't really have any parking. Compared to Dearborn, RO, or Pontiac, there isn't much area to park if you were going to park-and-ride. Just some thoughts.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1329
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no problem with creating DARTA. My main concern is that the creation of DARTA has been stalled for various political reasons, and we shouldn't wait for 5 years or however long for DARTA to be created before going ahead with implementing the Ann Arbor-Detroit line or other starter transit project. This doesn't require DARTA; it could be managed by some new (non-SMART/DDOT) agency in the interim. In the long run, we do want something like DARTA, though.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1330
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Dtown1, I don't think the buses there run on Uranium.



The Chicago buses run on Plutonium, not Uranium. Everybody knows that!
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Dtown1
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Username: Dtown1

Post Number: 149
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Either your being sarcastic or just crazy. This time my certified teacher told me that their buses run on uranium.
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Dtown1
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Username: Dtown1

Post Number: 150
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Either your being sarcastic or just crazy. This time my certified teacher told me that their buses run on uranium.


Got a problem with that LMichigan, kiss me and my teacher's behind
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Rrl
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Username: Rrl

Post Number: 626
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dtown1, don't believe the hype...

They're all diesel bro.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1959
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Are you talking about FTA's budget--or SAFETEA, which is the major federal capital funding mechanism for New Starts projects?



No, I was talking about the Transportation and Housing & Urban Development Appropriations Bill for FY 2007. This, of course, explains why I referred to it as "the recent Transportation and Housing & Urban Development Appropriations Bill."
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4441
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dtown, what did I ever say to you to warrant a "kiss my ass" comment? I know you're only a kid, but stop acting like a third grader in debate.
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Dtown1
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Username: Dtown1

Post Number: 153
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

AS I recall LMichigan, I never said the unmentionable word unlike you. Your always attacking because of the fact that I'm a kid. So what. My discussions are just as good as you. I was never trying to hurt you, but how can you consider someone's opinion invalid. Come on now, respect everyone's opinion and ill respect yours. I never say your opinion didnt matter.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sure as hell hope the CTA isn't running buses on uranium that would be funny but kind of cool if true.

(Message edited by mayor_sekou on September 15, 2006)
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Dtown1
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Username: Dtown1

Post Number: 154
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You beter hope so if you dont want anothre day after Tomorrow event.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1331
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(Yes I was being sarcastic.) Actually Dtown, it looks like Chicago has/had a few buses which run on Hydrogen, not Uranium, although they're both elements on the periodic table. :-) That's probably what you were thinking of.

http://www.joycefdn.org/articl es/enviroarticles/0005breathee asy.html
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 126
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you guys want a light rail system, hydrogen buses really take away it's main advantage, the price of gas. Hydrogen buses might be expensive, but hydrogen costs practically nothing. This was probably the one thing light rail supporters could use to get the light rail in place. That and that it would make the city look good.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1435
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"This time my certified teacher told me that their buses run on uranium."


Even with NCLB, we're doomed! Who will pay my social security with this oncoming generation?

I hope Dtown1's "certified" teacher wasn't "certified" in physics or any other science. Of course, he might have been kidding. If not, he should turn in his "teacher" and hopefully get a real one.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 197
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Transportation Riders United builds a good case for light rail on their new website, in my opinion. Since, the next transit tax is now four years away for SMART, I think this organization should seriously attack the SEMCOG TIP 2030 plan to add 25 miles of more freeway lanes in and near Detroit and consider investing in a rail line for downtown Detroit instead.

Please visit my updated website which explains how light rail can work and why we need to enhance our public bus systems to get more people to use light rail as necessary to lower cost. It is NOT a SMART idea to build more freeways by not raising the gas tax or increasing development fees to pay for these roads.

If anyone thinks only Livonia is losing bus service because of poor planning by state and regional leaders who selectively slash state transit authority budgets then check out the facts here.

All the facts are fully referenced.

http://savethefueltax.org
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 942
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the Michigan Daily today:

Sam Butler: Michigan's center city rivalry

http://media.www.michigandaily .com/media/storage/paper851/ne ws/2006/09/18/Columns/Sam-Butl er.Michigans.Center.City.Rival ry-2282088.shtml?sourcedomain= www.michigandaily.com&MIIHost= media.collegepublisher.com
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1333
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice article from the Daily. (brings back memories of when my roommate was opinion page editor there...) Hopefully Ann Arbor will get behind the proposed transit line along with Detroit.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 200
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Light Rail in Dettroit can work without crippling high taxes.

Please sign the petition drive to lower the costs of public bus service and bring in light rail for a reasonable cost at

http://savethefueltax.org

For all of you who don't believe this, then consider the fact that I work in the transportation industry and YES, industries want to support SMART and DDOT and can with just the taxes already collected.

Detroit does not need to raise mass transit taxes and can easily double the rider-ship without more taxes and bring in more jobs.

Check out all the facts. They are all referenced and please challenge my website on television and the newspapers.
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 262
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell, please censor Trainman.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do all of his posts say the same thing, pushing for this fuel tax thing. I dont recall for a minute now him posting anything else for a while.

(Message edited by mayor_sekou on September 19, 2006)
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1974
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cut & paste posting.

And don't bother asking him for his sources on any of his claims. I've done it twice and he just ignores said requests.

Every place needs it's local idiot and Trainman is our's.
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K_solomon
Member
Username: K_solomon

Post Number: 42
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Originally, the $114 million was meant to fund a light rail line between Ann Arbor and Detroit. However, these funds were hijacked by an entrenched Republican contingent in the State House that wanted those federal funds to go exclusively to a different Michigan city and its suburbs - yep, Grand Rapids. They passed a transportation bill that was thankfully vetoed by Governor Granholm last December precisely for its exclusion of Southeastern Michigan"




Can someone tell me who this "entrenched Republican contingent in the State House" is?
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1975
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For the most part, we're talking about the Speaker of the House, Craig DeRoche (R-38, Novi) along with a few folks from West Michigan.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 203
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Name just one thing on my webpage that is not true and not backed up by a reference, if you can
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4460
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, you know, the same arrogant guy who proudly espoused the fact that he "represents sprawl." Michigan can get know where with improving and expanding mass transit in this state with people like him in leadership positions in Michigan government.
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Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1977
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Name just one thing on my webpage that is not true and not backed up by a reference, if you can



Search the archives for the half dozen or so times that I asked you for your sources and you didn't.
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Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 206
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My main references are semcog and the citizens research council. SMART and DDOT are no longer supported by federal and state funds and industry provides very little support. Most support comes from the County property tax. It is the county tax that is the primary target to get expanded by both regional leaders at SEMCOG and the TRU - Transportation Riders United. There is little effort to get more direct industry support in the open public except from people like myself who work in the industry and a few others.

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