  Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10577 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
I figured we may as well share the love around here and give Granholm a thread too. With only a few months left before the election, is anybody else surprised that we are just now on the verge of reduced auto insurance in Detroit that was promised during her 2002 election run? Even then, it sounds like it'll only be available to those able to pass the screening as a "good driver," how selective do you think that process will be? http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060911/NEWS06/ 609110387 We still rank 50th in terms of unemployment, only two other states have had a net LOSS of jobs these past 4 years, those states were hit by hurricanes. Has she done the best she could do? Was her job performance satisfactory? Will she get the black/union vote by default this year, even after these two groups were the hardest hit these past 4 years? I also find it shocking that with the election closing in, just now she asked the president to sit down with the big 3. Yeah, it's a tad bit late, let's not try to pass the buck now. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8780 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.53.97.7 |
Considering manufacturing took a hit everywhere in N. America, how do you blame Granholm for that? Don't forget about Ohio. They lost the most amount of manufacturing jobs in the USA. You can always spin employment/unemployment rates but you can't spin job sector losses. So people wh used tomake $20.00/hr are now flipping burgers or working two part time jobs...whoopee! Do you really think DeVos is going to help Detroit or do you think he will do his damnest to reward Grand Rapids? I would rather Granholm than DeVos' plan. BTW: How much has DeVos spent on this campaign compared to Granholm? So who is trying to outfool who? Especially with the smear tactics already in full swing. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10578 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
So your vote goes for "She did all she could do?" This state has been losing manufacturing jobs for 30+ years, what did she do during her 4 to combat this? | ||
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d Post Number: 17 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 141.213.141.29 |
Hey, Supersport! you copied my thread title!! | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1137 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.98.224 |
I question Devos's motives in this election. Does he really care about the state of does he care more about fixing his and his buddies investments. He refuses to release his tax information, citing giving away company secrets. But W, Cheney, and Granholm among many others have released theirs for the public to see. DeVos says he has nothing to gain from Amway/Alticor and lower taxes, but as he says very little about, he is STILL their largest shareholder, so he does profit from them. He claims to have turned Grand Rapids around, but in reality it was his father that did most of it. I also do not like DeVos not really answering any questions, or giving any details about his turnaround plan. If he is so much better than Granholm, we need details to prove it. Now to his credit, the whole China argrument is more of how you want to look at it. China is the fastest growing economy in the world, and to have a piece of it, you have to build a plant there and sell good built there. DeVos at the time had a company in shambles (Amway is still to this day hated by a majority of Americans), and trying to break into the worldest fastest growing economy may have been a last resort. GM has made major investments in China, but we are not criticizing them for that. I also have fault with Granholm, since she seemed to not try very hard for the first three years of her term. She did inherit a mess in this state that was coming long before she was in office, but there was more she could have done to get things done. BUT, she is giving us more concrete details about what she will do, instead of DeVos's "just trust me and I'll tell you after the election." Granholm is not great, but DeVos is so vague you are only left to wonder and look at what little details we have about him, and it is a social conservative. Maybe that is not how he will govern, but that is all we have to go by. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 916 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.139.64.80 |
"Shocking Supersport and Detroit insight" Supersport is a cock-smoker! | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8786 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.53.97.7 |
Well considering what Engler did...what has she done or didn't do that warrants DeVos to take control? What are you expecting from a governor? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1138 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.98.224 |
I agree Goat.....also considering she has a Republican legislature that sat on their hands and did nothing to help anybody. Another thought is that you a social conservative with a potential Republican legislature and Republican majority state supreme court, and I see a lack of check and balances. Again comes back to DeVos being so vague you are only left to wonder. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8787 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.53.97.7 |
Agreed Bob. I would rather stick with what I know about someone than to elect a person based on fluffy statements with no substance. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 991 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Let's elect Roger Penske or Dick Dauch as a write in candidate. Who's with me?! | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 353 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.217.228.49 |
Me! | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 92 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
"Let's elect Roger Penske or Dick Dauch as a write in candidate. Who's with me?!" I say both, one can be Senator. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10580 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
I'd elect Penske in a heartbeat. I find it funny how everybody comes to Granholms defense with very little reason to vote for her aside from "Well, she had a Republican legislature to work against." Ok, so if it remains a Republican legislature for 4 more years does she get another free pass to keep us the most unemployed state in the nation?' Listen people, I'll likely end up voting for Granholm, especially if this car insurance break turns out to be the real deal. Yet I'm left asking myself "Why should I vote for her? What has she done?" Using the mentality of this forum, I hear time and time again how most of the Detroit development was from Archer's watch. If that is the case, wouldn't that mean that Engler was also responsible for Detroit's progress? NextEnergy, yeah, that was initiated on Englers watch. So how much other stuff was as well? Or is it only convenient to go back 4-8 years when it's for your canidate? | ||
Rossco Member Username: Rossco Post Number: 35 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 65.42.241.57 |
It's Engler...It's all his fault! At what point won't it all be Engler's fault...20-30 years? I agree that Engler was a shifty dirt bag who left the state in poor shape, but all that's happened (or hasn't happened) over the past four years can't be lain at Engler's feet. (Message edited by Rossco on September 11, 2006) | ||
Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 142 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 24.11.216.113 |
Throw out our Republican legislature! We should blame the people most responsible. | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 65 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.3.206.177 |
I guess that would be we voters for putting them in there in the first place. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 740 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.136.147.97 |
People look at the Governor as if it is her fault for the loss of jobs here in Michigan, but the problem stems from more than just her. Since before the automobile the Michigan economy has been based on pretty much one industry; manufacturing and factory jobs. Due to NAFTA and thanks to Globalization the companies can now go to poorer countries where people will work for much less. The consumer then goes to Wal-Mart and purchases the cheap sale items yet they don't pay attention to the fact that they are not MADE IN USA.People still buy these products thinking they are saving money but really they are hurting themsleves. Gone are products made in America, Yet Michigan still sits on Manufacturing as its only industry. Ignorant auto companies sitting on tired ideas while the foreign companies sneak up behind. GM and Ford think they are unstopable and keep pumping out the same crap while pretty much carrying a whole states economy. All manufacturing jobs are leaving, not just Michigan but the whole country. All that will be left are factories in the south where there aren't as many Unions to cost the corps more money. Even Cartoons are now made in Korea. Even the Simpsons, because it is cheaper to pay Korean animators. This should have been an issue for Engler and Blanchard. If any thing thank them and realize the mess that this governor has inherited. However South Park- Made In USA | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 1119 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 65.221.183.120 |
Penske for Governor!!!!!!!!!!! I will go with Jenny mostly because I couldn't vote for Devos. I think the Governor can moderately impact the State's economy through an Economic Development Office, working with our Congressional Delegation, building partnerships with cities and counties and so on. Even with all that, our State's economy would still have taken a hit over the last 4 years. | ||
Correctone Member Username: Correctone Post Number: 43 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 68.42.152.51 |
same merry-go-round every election...no real choice, until we get away from a 2 party system and come up with at least one or two more strong parties not much will ever change. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1297 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 35.11.212.197 |
Republican Legislature. Granholm cant even get many of the things she wants done. The legislature needs to be shouldering more of the blame here... | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 489 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
Then she needed to compromise more. She was elected governor not a dictator that could do as she pleases. She certainly isn't the first politicain that had to work with an opposing part to get things done. Granholm should have taken her case(s) (Whatever they were) to the people and hope that public pressure would help get things done. Granholm obviously has been out in the public recently because of the election coming up, but during her first three years I can't recall a govenor who was out in the public less than she was. | ||
Tigers2005 Member Username: Tigers2005 Post Number: 100 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.61.252.136 |
I believe that it is the legislature that fails to compromise. How about cutting the full-time legislature. That would be a good cost-cutting measure for the state. I think we are one of only a handful of states with a full-time legislature. Oh wait, they won't cut their own jobs. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Michigan is in the unenviable position of being victim to economic factors bigger than either DeVos or Granholm can control,,DeVos buying Grand Rapids will not ensure Michigan a bright future, He cant do the same thing for the state,,Its really up to the decisions of large business in tandem with the international markets. Just as important is the social issues, DeVos and company have little interest in the goings on of South East Michigan and especially Detroit. Why should they,, their base is not here. They would lose much of their voters if they did try to concentrate on Detroit issues. If he is elected with a Republican legislature we are in big trouble. Take a look at Michigan legislative proposals and make your own mind up..Granholm will be stuck again by stailmates with the Republicans, DeVos will not,, Im not so sure I want the Republican party dictating behavior/ social issues in Michigan, They are starting to remind me of the Taliban. I used to like the Republican fiscal platform but anymore the evangelical priorities seem to form the outline for the party.. It starting to resemble a theocracy when one religious groups beliefs dictate party behavior. Last time I checked we are supposed to be a democracy | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2938 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.67.70 |
Bob, likewise I question JG's motives in the last few months (Google, EPrize, Toyota, 2020 Olympics, DPS strike photo op, visiting Asia, Michigan Fund starting up, auto insurance, JG/KK Cabinets finally meeting, releasing an economic plan after DeVos did). Where was all of this the first 3 and a half years while Michigan was dropping like a rock? Goat, likewise take into account that the Gov's office gives the incumbent an automatic $5-10 name recognition advantage. Likewise with Dem ads on behalf of JG. Add it all up, and the spending is comparable. Cue Quinn with the name-calling and homosexual references. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 113 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 71.227.26.121 |
There are more cars made in the USA than ever before, just not here. There are other rust-belt states out-performing us that have suffered many of the same problems we have. We are not the only state who has lost auto plants and manufacturing jobs due to globalization yet we are dead last in every economic category. The business climate here sucks and the image of the City of Detroit is killing us, whether that is justified or not. The teacher strike really helped by the way! We need someone who can sell the many things we have to offer businesses. There is no reason that southern states and places like Indiana and Ohio are doing better than we are. We have many advantages but we need to sell them. We also need to realize our highly-unionized work environment is hurting all of us, mostly the workers! The transplants in the south pay good money without a union and have a much better relationship with their employees. Granhom is unable to address this because she caters to the unions. I am not being anti-union here, I just think a manufacturer should be able to come here and not worry about being harrassed by unions in the first 5 minutes. Granholm is a lawyer who knows nothing about business, and she is all talk. She is in bed with the very constituencies that are killing this state - she needs to go. She sat around for years and did nothing then all of the sudden gins up some crap about Google and Toyota in the 11th hour to save her ass. The Devos commercial showing her talking about how "in 5 years we will be blown away" is right on the mark. The rest of the country is in a relative boom and we are in the shit. When the recession comes we will suffer on a scale that will make the Carter years look like a picnic unless something is done. DeVos may not be a panacea, but anything is better than the BS artist we have now! (Message edited by perfectgentleman on September 12, 2006) | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 230 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
quote: It's Engler...It's all his fault! At what point won't it all be Engler's fault...20-30 years? ______________________________ __________________ As soon as the neo-cons in Washington stop blaming all the world's ills on Clinton. How long has he been out of office? | ||
Rossco Member Username: Rossco Post Number: 36 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.25 |
Rabid political partisans (right or left) seem to be more interested in party affiliation rather than the merits of individual politicians. I voted for Granholm in the last election, but her flip-flop on preserving the Mourning Dove hunting ban lost her my vote in the next election. I’m not a single-issue voter, but I do feel that we need ethical leaders to provide guidance for the population. Then we can redirect our energies from hateful name-calling and finger pointing to helping people. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2464 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.148.125 |
What? So, despite all the economic issues, and DeVos stunning "ethical" background as a pyramid scam heir, your political decision is based on whether or not you can hunt a bird no bigger than a small chicken drumstick? Democracy is a fascinating thing. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1144 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.98.224 |
The sad thing is that there are so many people turned off by both candidates, that I have heard a lot of people who are just not going to vote. I wonder if this will play into the election at all. I personally do not like either candidate...they both have major problems in my eye. Perfectgentleman is correct in his description of Granholm, but there are so many unknowns and ethical questions about DeVos that it is a hard choice. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8789 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.53.97.7 |
"Listen people, I'll likely end up voting for Granholm, especially if this car insurance break turns out to be the real deal. Yet I'm left asking myself "Why should I vote for her? What has she done?" Sport, Much like your vote for Bush for the $200.00 tax credit? Are you people going to blame Granholm for losses to the manufacturing sector that all heavy union districts lost? Ohio, Michigan and Ontario all lost manufacturing jobs to places that have little or no union influence. How do you combat that? | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10587 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Exactly. It's like she's trying to pack in all the work she should have been doing the first 3.5 years into 6 months as re-election time rolls around. I'm still waiting for Detroit's "blank check." | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 919 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.139.64.80 |
Sport you voted for this current President? It all makes perfect sense now...Bush, Hendrix, Devos, Retardation... Man are you cocked up in your thinking...or you're a weathly white-collar exec who would gain from voting from these losers. | ||
Rossco Member Username: Rossco Post Number: 37 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 136.181.195.25 |
As far as I know, I have never, nor probably ever will vote for Devos. The point is I DID vote for Granholm based on a set of promises, one of which she flagrantly broke. Keeping ones word may not seem like much to some as party politics run rampant -- but I will remember the small, insignificant bird when I vote. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2786 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.8 |
Supersport, you're in good company... Quinn thinks that everyone who doesn't agree with his own political mindset, is retarded.  | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 784 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.209.169.228 |
Over and over, you hear people say "manufacturing is down everywhere; don't blame our poor governor." Yet, this is not true. US industrial output is up. Total manufacturing output rose by 55 percent between 1992 and September 2000. Output dipped during the recession in 2001, but has resumed its upward drive. The Fed reported last month that US industrial production is up 13% since 2002. Equally impressive, capacity utilization was 82.4% -- 1.4 percentage points above its 1972-2005 average. In May of 2006, USA Today Reported that the US had a "record" level of exports, causing the trade deficit to decline. Our country faces tremendous challenges, and I'm glad the left is here to remind us of our every flaw. But we should resist these Orwellian manipulations of the truth, which plainly is: (a) US industrial output is at an all time high; (b) US exports are at an all time high; (c) the US economy as a whole is doing well, and other than a brief hiccup in 1991 and 2001 has been growing steadily for 22 years. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 43 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 75.9.245.197 |
All I know is that Engler systematically dismantled the state's system of environmental controls, shut down the mental hospitals (dumping many mental patients on the streets of Detroit and Highland Park), and generally sold us, the people of Michigan, out to the interests of his corporate bedfellows. DeVos is all that plus a firebrand evangelical religious nut hellbent on saving our souls at the expense of our individual rights. Also, I have to question his qualifications to lead Michigan when his only previous life experience consists of accepting a job from his father managing a pyramid scam. I tend to suspect people born with silver spoons in their mouths, and DeVos is almost more of a poster child in that regard than Bush. I, like Rossco, was surprised by Granholm's opposition to the mourning dove hunting ban, but she is a politician, and politicians have to pick their battles (especially when working with a hostile legislature). If I had to petition one or the other to endorse my viewpoint, I would expect Granholm to hear me out and take my views into account, whereas DeVos has no vested interest in listening to my concerns since I'm not part of his core constituency (rich people and West Michigan evangelicals). A vote for DeVos is a vote against the poor/working class, a vote against environmental protections, and most of all a vote against Detroit and southeast Michigan. How anyone in this region could cast such a vote in good conscience is beyond me. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2941 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.155.193.90 |
Sorry Bear but your description of DeVos isn't accurate. If we're going to have a real discussion about this election, let's first start with honesty and accuracy. First, how can you compare DeVos to another Engler when there simply isn't any factual evidence to support that accusation? Second, the DeVos family didn't begin making any real money with their business until Dick was in high school (that negates the "born with a silver spoon claim"). He has worked in a number of positions at every level of that company. Third, DeVos has served at the President/CEO level of the Orlando Magic, run his own management firm, been involved in a number of large scale philanthropic efforts, and served on the state board of education. Those qualifications are as good as any. Likewise, anyone that puts out such inaccurate and dishonest information in order to put down one candidate while claiming to have the interests of the people of the state at heart is beyond suspect. An honest evaluation would present the accurate pros and cons of both sides without the hateful rhetoric. |
