  Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 294 Registered: 12-2005 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060915/NEW S99/60915006 The sooner that the UAW dies, the better off this place will be. (Message edited by tndetroiter on September 15, 2006) | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 68 Registered: 08-2005 |
My mother, who worked her ass off in a factory practically all her life making Chrysler products (& AMC products before that), was a UAW member. She passed away two years ago after literally working herself to death. Does that make you feel better? I, too, was a UAW member while working in that same plant during in the summers. I also clerked at Solidarity House, working with some of the finest legal minds in this country. Should I now go slit my wrists? I have never before engaged in making personal insults on this forum, but you, Tndetroiter, are, quite possibly, the single biggest idiot I have ever had the misfortune to encounter on this forum. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1859 Registered: 06-2004 |
Then you just haven't been looking | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 938 Registered: 11-2004 |
Tndetroiter is reaching Trainman status. It's almost to the point where every reasonable forumite just wants to say...  | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 116 Registered: 08-2006 |
Whew! Finally a ray of hope, I was starting to think this forum was just full of Brainless Yuppie Neo Cons. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1506 Registered: 12-2003 |
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Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2796 Registered: 08-2004 |
Amen E_Hemingway, Amen! TN_Detroiter, quit clogging our forum with your threads (waiting for a third one any minute now). Silly ass generalizations do not make for intelligent discussions! | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 44 Registered: 04-2006 |
Well said, Awfavre. Tndetroiter, why does a news article about DaimlerChrysler having some financial worries trigger such a knee-jerk anti-UAW reaction? The auto industry is plagued by a vast array of problems, many of them self-inflicted, and very few of them attributable to the folks on the assembly lines. Why are the legacy costs never blamed on the government's inability to get together a decent health care program like every other developed country on the planet? Why are slow sales never blamed on the fact that many people in management (admittedly at Ford and GM more than at Chrysler) haven't the slightest clue what they're doing in terms of product development and still seem to be relying on past glory, brand-name loyalty, and financing deals for sales instead of quality, efficiency, and compelling design? Granted, the UAW isn't perfect, but stereotyping ALL union workers as "freeloaders" and saying that they'd be better off dead is inaccurate, offensive, and most of all produces no meaningful solution to the auto industry's problems. | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 301 Registered: 12-2005 |
I'm sorry if I offended anybody w/ the "and all the free loaders that fill it's ranks die" comment. I can see where that could be construed as my wishing death on people directly. That wasn't my intent, but I can see where that could be inferred from the language that I used. As you can see at the top of the thread, I have edited my post. Once again, sorry. However, I still say that the UAW is a short sighted, parasitic organization that is killing the automotive industry. The sooner the demise (or drastic reduction of power) of the UAW, the better off the state will be. Yes, I have worked in factories, I know what the work is like, I worked my ass off in those places. However I worked in non-union factories which, from everything that I've learned from numerous UAW workers, was completely different from working in a UAW factory. Everything I've heard from those UAW members (a couple of whom have about 25 years on the job) is that work load is very, very light compared to similar non-union jobs. I just don't believe that those people deserve the wages and benefits that they are currently receiving. The UAW served a very good purpose in an era gone by, but today it's just a parachute on the automakers. Why is it that many of the foreign plants in the U.S. are non-unionized and the work force at those places is very happy? There have been many stories of employees at many of those plants stringently opposing unionization at those plants. Interesting, isn't it? Finally, isn't it funny that the only U.S., unionized automaker that has been expanding its market share is going to post a $1.53 billion third quarter loss for many of the same reasons (that are directly related to the UAW) that the other two unionized automakers are posting losses? If you want to claim that UAW isn't one of the biggest reasons that the U.S. auto industry is dying, then you've been living under a rock. (Message edited by tndetroiter on September 15, 2006) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1332 Registered: 06-2004 |
I say we just shoot all the MBAs, starting with the ones on Wall Street. Yeah, those guys who sit around in cushy offices all day getting paid for doing nothing. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 270 Registered: 05-2005 |
What is truely killing this place is GREED! The owners/ceo's need more and more to keep the life style they have become accustom to, so they now have to take from the little guy who now has to worry whether he can afford his house, car and to eat | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4335 Registered: 11-2003 |
If Fords offers each of its 75,000 USA factory workers a severance package, then who's going to build the cars? NIKE sells a lot of shoes, clothes, and sports equipment without any plants in USA. Is the model for "American" autos? Now we know that for every full-time factory worker, he supports 7 service industry workers. Does this mean I won't have my Mc Donalds anymore? jjaba, confused as hell. Please educate jjaba. | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 303 Registered: 12-2005 |
As has been said by others on this fourm, the entitlement mindset in this area is really a big part of what is killing it. Nobody owes you anything, YOU went to the company looking for work, not the other way around. If there's a down turn and they need to cut back to survive, sorry. It sucks that it's that way, but that's the brutal reality of life. And it isn't going to change until the douche bags in Washington quit w/ their free trade policies in regard to third world countries and China where labor is dirt cheap. I'm not saying that this is the way that it should be, but it's reality, and you have to deal w/ it the best way possible which, I believe, is this way. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4336 Registered: 11-2003 |
WalMart has 1.8 million workers in USA. The average full-time shop floor wage is $10.21/hr. Will they be able to assorb the 75,000 laid-off Ford workers? jjaba, just curious. | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 304 Registered: 12-2005 |
Jjaba, it means that you need to call up your Congressman and tell him that the U.S. needs to tell China to go fuck itself as free trade is a big part of why this is all happening. It also means start looking forward to a pretty long economic slump. Don't be surprised when the press starts referring to Michigan as the Mississippi of the North, too. | ||
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77 Post Number: 78 Registered: 08-2006 |
Good bye cold weather, hello humidity and cotton fields! | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 95 Registered: 02-2006 |
I am not union but in my opinion the unions of this country did more than any other organization to further individual rights and freddom than any other group. No they did not start causes but the leadership saw that political support for causes was for the better of unions. That said, is it any wonder that while we are in a time of unions being decimated, we also are losing personal freddoms and social groups are being exploited? In the past, many of us elected representation via union membership. Now at every level and at both parties elections are simply bought. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 70 Registered: 03-2006 |
I got all sorts of grief for saying this in here a while back, but I've supervised both union and non-union employees, and I was quite happy working with the union. Too many inept or lazy managers don't take the time to read the contracts or learn the workrules, and blame it on the union when they can't manage effectively. The union becomes a convenient scapegoat to hide their incompetence, and a way to conceal the fact that they shouldn't be in the job they're in. Besides - and this is the thing that drives the anti-union types nuts, but it's true - it takes two parties to enter into a contract. If management can't negotiate, why is that the union's fault? Excuses don't count - results do. Too many managers these days don't get that. | ||
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77 Post Number: 80 Registered: 08-2006 |
(Quote) "unions of this country did more than any other organization to further individual rights and freddom than any other group." The ACLU might take issue with you Angry_dad and file a lawsuit. | ||
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77 Post Number: 81 Registered: 08-2006 |
Dalangdon: The union contract I've seen is more then 2 inches thick with small print. Everytime managers where I work try to initiate a change in a rule or a job classification that might help us avoid being shut down in 2007, they say "Its against the contract, the contract won't allow it. Will negotiate that next year." There is no effort to even reconsider change. Its no, no, no, until thelast minute at the bargaining table. This time it may be too late. Now the management agreed to that contract and like you said thay share the blame as well, but what can management do now when there's so much crap in our contract that there's no room for productivity improvements or business changes that could be benificial? (Message edited by stecks77 on September 15, 2006) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4338 Registered: 11-2003 |
Tndetroiter, thanks for the tyrade about Globalization. I have just opened a new dept. at Macomb Community College. "Container Handling Technology." My students will be damn good at opening Chinese containers and unloading them. Metro Detroit still has 5 million consumers and we'll need suburban manpower to deal with the incoming containers. Wanna sign up? We also will need clerks at Dollar Store, Wal-Mart, and the flea markets in Macomb County. Hold it, don't move to Mississippi to build BMWs just yet. We gotta future fer ya. jjaba. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 222 Registered: 12-2003 |
was that supposed to be humorous? | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 72 Registered: 03-2006 |
1.) It's always interesting how the people who have NO IDEA what the ACLU actually does always feel the need to comment on it. They tend to complain about it until it gives them free legal aid when they are the aggreived party. 2.) Stecks77, if the situation is that crucial, but management still won't light a fire, again I have to ask: Who's fault it that? Collective bargaining isn't perfect, but it's the best tool employees have to protect them - especially manufacturing and service employees, but also increasingly white-collar employees. Too many Americans don't realize that, and labor under stupid stereotypes because they don't want to take the time to learn. Lastly, it should be said that there are too many union members who sit around and bitch about the way the union is managed, but won't take the initiative to do anything about it, and only turn to it when they are being disciplined, threatened with termination, or some terrible abuse comes to light. The hotel union used to be terrible that way, but I've been very interested in how they are energizing themselves recently. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 291 Registered: 03-2006 |
Damn those people for living longer and increasing the legacy costs. Let's sue the medical industry for increasing the life span of Americans. | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 24 Registered: 04-2006 |
Well, at least the Dow Jones is nearing an all-time high. We often wonder here in Michigan why the rest of the country seems to care so little about the plight of the domestic auto industry. It's because the national economy keeps plugging along, and, quite simply, people feel okay with Michigan "taking it on the chin," as long as it doesn't drag down overall GDP growth or dividend checks. | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 305 Registered: 12-2005 |
Dalangdon, valid points. That's a very good counter argument. I just want people to admit that the UAW isn't exactly helping the situation. (Message edited by tndetroiter on September 16, 2006) |
