  Austinjohn Member Username: Austinjohn Post Number: 284 Registered: 10-2003 |
Why is it that Detroit cannot synchronize the traffic lights for a smoother flow of traffic? My parter and I were in Detroit over Labor Day. We were driving around on the surface streets rather than the freeways so my partner could see the city (his first time in the D). We drove down E. Jefferson, Trumbull, Cass, to name a few. It is really frustrating that you have to stop every block or two because the lights are not timed. This encourages red light running or going over the speed limit to "beat the light". Maybe I picked the wrong streets, but this seems prevalent all over the city. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this? | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 427 Registered: 06-2005 |
Yes it is prevalent around the city. It's a pain in the ass and wasteful. Especially down Jefferson. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 171 Registered: 10-2005 |
not sure about Detroit but in Baltimore, the lights are timed for rush hour traffic during the weekdays and not during a holiday weekend unless some major event is occuring (ballgame, etc.). I think that is pretty common throughout the country but I may be wrong. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 277 Registered: 05-2005 |
Another reason I love it up here. I can drive for miles and never see a traffic light, it is sooo nice to be able to drive and drive. That really got on my nerves in the city, stop, go, stop, go. Up here, ya just gooooooooo! | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 622 Registered: 11-2003 |
up where? | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 278 Registered: 05-2005 |
Charlevoix | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 787 Registered: 11-2003 |
are the lights under any kind of central control or are they on a light by light individual system? | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 186 Registered: 03-2005 |
I agree with some of your comments guys. The city's "smoother flow of traffic' is mess up because they're putting the traffic signals on some intersections that DOESN'T need one.... downtown is a good example. Speaking of downtown, since the city are installing newer ones all over the city, why they haven't install more new ones in the downtown area?? Installation is SO MIXED up. If the city can set up new ones on Woodward,Broadway,"parts" of Washington Blvd, why they can't do it one other downtown intersections that needed newer ones??? | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 468 Registered: 02-2006 |
Jesus, english please. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 380 Registered: 01-2006 |
I travel to the downtown area on Grand River Ave., from Plymouth Rd. to Trumbull, every morning during the 6:00 A.M. hour. I MIGHT hit one red light. I love it. While nearly everyone else is risking their necks on the pain-in-the-ass freeways, I am cruising. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 117 Registered: 05-2006 |
I sometimes travel Grand River from Plymouth Rd. to downtown too. Even in the middle of the day, the lights seemed timed. This is about the only road that is unfortunately. Sometimes I blame the drivers. When the light turns green they go like hell just to stop at the next light because it's still red. I just travel around the speed limit and pass them as the light turns green. They go like hell again to sit at the next light because it's still red..and so on, and so on. But yes, the lights are definately at fault in a lot of areas. And the thing that really pisses me off, is when there are tons of cars sitting at a red light and no one is on the crossing street. A lot of gas being wasted at red lights. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 382 Registered: 01-2006 |
Driving at, or near, the speed limit is definitely part of the system. Watching the dumbasses burn rubber so they can fly past me and sit at the next light is fun, too. The BEST part is when I arrive at the light just as it turns green, and I cruise right past these clowns, having not accelerated or braked. | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 26 Registered: 08-2006 |
Austinjohn: you said you were driving around so your partner could see the city for the first time; the city was timing the lights so you could get a nice long look! P.S. The city says, "You're welcome!" | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 623 Registered: 11-2003 |
For an example of how to do it right, on the one-way pair of Saginaw/Oakland in Lansing I can almost always go at the speed limit and not stop for one light, for a distance of several miles through busy traffic. M-DOT times those lights and does a great job. | ||
Planner_727 Member Username: Planner_727 Post Number: 53 Registered: 07-2006 |
Eight Mile and Telegraph are dead-nuts on. You hit one light early on, and usually if traffic is within 5 mpg +/- of the speed limit, you'll make it miles before you have to stop. Oakland County also uses intersection traffic sensors, that look like cameras. Some just monitor things like left turn lanes (if no one is there, you don't need that phase), while others are synchronized with each other to adjust timing on main roads to accomodate slower traffic. For whatever reason, Wayne County does NOT do this, at any intersection. Hopefully they will come around in the future. Canton Township on Ford Road has installed it's own sensor system (with MDOT help, I believe). One of the improvements IKEA made as part of the development was to install an RF system that links the signals together to coordinate flow along M-153. I drive east on Mc Nichols to work each day to Greenfield north. Mc Nichols for the 4 miles I'm on it, I usually stop at 2 or 3 lights (not many). On Greenfield, every day, I stop at every light from 6 mile to 9 mile. Hopefully as Detroit re-builds to it's potential (past) residential density, there will be enough congestion to make a system worthwhile to the city and county. Until then, don't hold your breath! | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 193 Registered: 04-2006 |
Distance is a factor in timing stop lights. Lights must be set at a regular distance apart from each other for signal timing to work most efficiently. Another factor is that while it may be regularly spaced on the road you're driving on, it is not regularly spaced on another road. Detroit's road heirachy has many of the major streets (Woodward, Gratiot, Grand River, Fort, Michigan) running at odd angles. These are also the most important roads to time as they are arterials. Since these run at odd angles lights are spaced not at regular distances so they try the best they can. The timing of these arterials will have a negative impact on the timing of minor arterials and collector roads, unless everything is on one big regularly spaced grid, which Detroit does not have. To complicate this further, not all the lights in the city are timed by the City. Some are timed by MDOT and others are timed by Wayne County. All agencies adjust their timing independently. Other good examples of well time roads include 8 Mile, Woodward in N Oakland County, and Michigan from Ypsi to Dearborn. (I've done the Ypsi to Dearborn segment many times without stopping!). | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 3282 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't buy the "odd angle" excuse. I'm all over the metro area for work, and there's only isolated patches that are timed correctly. And example of badly timed lights is Hall Road at Groesbeck and Gratiot. You're guaranteed to hit the red light at Gratiot no matter how you take off from Groesbeck, fast, slow or in between. On the other hand, in the morning, 8 Mile between Mt. Elliott and Groesbeck is perfectly timed heading eastbound. I can take turn from Mt. Elliott and never hit a red light. Same in the afternoon going west (train crossings excepted). It's definitely a case of too many cooks. There should be one agency in charge of the lights in the metro area. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 963 Registered: 04-2005 |
the only way to handle this...is writing (en masse?) to government officials. in terms of gas mileage, vehicle wear-and-tear, brake jobs, accident rates, commuting times, and more, we are paying dearly at the expense of our public officials who ignore the creation of traffic flow routes. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 48 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Other good examples of well time roads include ... Woodward in N Oakland County" Depends what you consider North Oakland County, I guess. The loop around downtown Birmingham has some of the worst light timing I've ever encountered. It's impossible to go from 14 to 16 Mile on Woodward without hitting at least one red, and once you've hit one, you've hit all the rest of them. You start, get up to about 30 mph, and then the next light changes up ahead. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1117 Registered: 11-2003 |
Depends on the direction of the timing too, right? I used to drive Jefferson inbound in the morning, outbound in evening. It was pretty good overall. But if you're going the "wrong" way, then you stop all the time. The beauty of one-way streets. Timed the "correct" way all the time. Love the sensor lights. However, they are usually only on newer lights. We have them around here in CA, and had them in Idaho. Loved them. Though I do like Michigan's blinking left then green arrow. Hate waiting at a red arrow while traffic the other direction is clear. In Michigan I could complete that left. | ||
Toog05 Member Username: Toog05 Post Number: 38 Registered: 03-2006 |
8 Mile is always good to travel on especially at night, its smooth sailin | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1158 Registered: 11-2003 |
Macomb County now has their traffic lights comtrolled by a computer centrally also. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1315 Registered: 10-2005 |
Agreed: 8 mile and Grand River are both great ways to miss out on some of the traffic, and they are timed beautifully. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 3284 Registered: 10-2003 |
The entire length of 8 Mile isn't "beautiful." Exhibit #1: eastbound at Gratiot. The lights for the turnaround turn green, while at Gratiot and Hayes they are still red. Cars back up at Gratiot and block the turnaround lanes. Just as the lights at Gratiot and Hayes turn green, the turn around light hits red. This light catches almost everybody traveling on 8 Mile from Schoenherr. Then, the light for Hayes turns red before the Gratiot light changes, creating more backup. Your odds of hitting the green light at Kelly after navigating this bottleneck are less than 50-50. (Message edited by Hamtramck Steve on September 17, 2006) (Message edited by Hamtramck Steve on September 17, 2006) | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1316 Registered: 10-2005 |
I am usually headed in the opposite direction, from Woodward west, so from that area it works well, especially at night | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 185 Registered: 04-2006 |
Sometimes lights are timed to keep you from speeding....... ...but Grand River is sometimes faster to drive downtown in the morning rush than I-96. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 198 Registered: 04-2006 |
I will need to add one more factor: the level of traffic on the road. If traffic is under free-flow conditions, roads/lights work much better. The angle roads impact the other roads around it since most of the angle roads are under MDOT control. The others are under local control. Traffic lights are actually very complex. You need to also factor in time for pedestrians to cross. For a good intorduction to signals and how to sychonize them check this out, this is well written and not very technical. http://cms.city.richmond.bc.ca/Page2081.aspx (Message edited by Detroitplanner on September 17, 2006) | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 3287 Registered: 10-2003 |
"You need to also factor in time for pedestrians to cross." This is such a nonfactor. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1988 Registered: 10-2003 |
Seeing how the City and the County can't even agree on how to pay for road repair, I doubt they'll be able to agree on timing the lights soon. I know that the city and county have been bitching over Fenkell for over two years while the road crumbles away. An there is no excuse for not having the lights timed, no mater the complexity of the road grid. Almost every city in America times their lights for polution control, congestion relief and other factors. Part of the problem in Detroit is that the traffic lights are so old they take quite a bit of effort to syncronize. Newer lights can be retimed within a few minutes using computers. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006609170715 | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3722 Registered: 10-2003 |
Unless you are that pedestrian. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 3289 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jams, you prove my point by mentioning the one solitary pedestrian who crosses at the light. In the suburbs, you don't have pedestrians, period. In the city, nobody crosses at the lights. Everybody plays frogger and crosses where it's convenient for them. | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1263 Registered: 12-2003 |
I was hoping this thread might be about line dancing on Joy Rd. Oh Well.... | ||
Scardetroit Member Username: Scardetroit Post Number: 64 Registered: 03-2005 |
A lot of the retiming issues with the City of Detroit relates to old equipment. A lot of the interconnects between signals have failed, so even if you wanted to retime the signals, they can't stay in step for very long. The only way to make significant improvements is to throw some money at it to update the infrastructure and then retime (which we all know there is plenty of money floating around to address this). The City knows about these issues, and DPW does what it can when funds are available. Also, pedestrian timings are not a non-factor. Many low volume cross-street timings are dictated by pedestrian timings. The time it takes to cross a pedestrian safely from one side to the other may take 15-20 seconds. You may only need 12 seconds to efficiently service the low vehicle volume for this approach, but you have to go with the higher pedestrian timing to allow for safe crossing, which means less time for the major roadway. If ped push-buttons are available, you start to minimize this impact and can give the major roadway more green time generally. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 283 Registered: 05-2005 |
In the suburbs, you don't have pedestrians, period. WTF? Can we paint with a broader brush? Just what do you call those people I saw out walking everyday? | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 3291 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hmmmm...yeah, lots of pedestrians walking along Hall Road. Gratiot and 16 Mile is a pedestrian haven, too. Scads of people, 25 deep waiting to cross the street. And those people along Groesbeck, shit, I haven't seen so many since Manhattan! And 13 and Woodward, OH MY GOD!!!!! It's like crazy there with a half-mile long parade of pedestrians. Please. There ain't shit numbers of people walking along the major and not-so-major roads. Along the residential streets, perhaps... | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3724 Registered: 10-2003 |
Welcome to the world that defines walking as an antisocial behavior. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1990 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ham Steve, But have you been to cosmopolitan Charlevoix? Now do you see what Miss Cleo is talking about!? | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 285 Registered: 05-2005 |
read my post, I said people I *SAW* refering to when I lived downstate with all you sorry asses | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 201 Registered: 04-2006 |
Lets see us planners don't plan for people. Thats what I always hear from nay-sayers of this group. When we do plan for people we are poo-pooed as it being useless. Did you ever think that if you walked more, that land use would be more linked to the transportation system? Do you think we should be planning roads for Bubba Kowalski to get to his McMansion in Macomb Township by going 80 miles an hour, or should we plan for the elerly person who needs to cross Hall Road by foot because she can no longer drive to ger her meds? Quality of life should not be measured in how short of a time your auto idles at a light. It should be measured in how well we can get people and goods to where they need to be. (Message edited by Detroitplanner on September 18, 2006) | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3726 Registered: 10-2003 |
Miss_cleo is happy living in Charlevoix. It's a great community, I wish her well. Those of us who wish to remain in Detroit and work to make a City worthy of pride should not be disparged. We all make choices, sometimes at a cost. I believe in this City and hope and pray it will achieve the greatness it once had. (Message edited by JamS on September 18, 2006) | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 3293 Registered: 10-2003 |
Planner, I'm not advocating for people to drive "80 miles an hour" but I am suggesting that not getting stopped at every traffic light is a good thing. | ||
Odessa Member Username: Odessa Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2005 |
They're timed poorly so the carjackers have time to run up to your car. Part of the urban economic revival program. Blame Kwame... |
